Teacher needs help - songs for 4th grade

Subject: BS: Teacher needs help
From: GUEST,Bill
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 12:39 PM

I teach fourth grade in a community near Vandenberg Air Force Base. I have two students with older brothers in Iraq, and a student whose father is on his way.
I have been a life-long advocate of peace (one of the reasons for my chosen career). My heart is filled with compassion for these kids and their parents. I feel that a discussion of the war is somewhat appropriate in the classroom, but I want to do it in an appropriate manner.
I have sent home information which I downloaded from PBS.org intended for parents. I felt good about that, but the kids still have questions, concerns, and fears. I also do not want to offend any parents (a lot of red necks and Faux News watching flag wavers, yet I must stand on my own priciples.
During the last BushWar I taght and sang "Last Night I Had the Strangest Dream" and plan to do the same this time around. The lyrics and melody are perfect for this age group.
Any positive input would be appreciated.

Subject: RE: Teacher needs help - songs for 4th grade
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 12:45 PM

Hi, Bill. Since your request is for songs, I moved your thread out of the BS category up to the music area and added a bit to your thread title, so that is is more clear.

We have a number of educators and parents on here, so I am sure you will get some good suggestions.

Thanks,

kat/a joe clone

Subject: RE: Teacher needs help - songs for 4th grade
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 01:03 PM

Hi Kat/clone
Thanks for pushing me up into the big leagues, but it is not only songs I'm seeking. I really want all ideas on how to facilitate a sane discussion of war and peace in a classroom of ten-year-olds, lots of whom are closer to the issues than most of us would care to be.
PAX

Subject: RE: Teacher needs help - songs for 4th grade
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 01:17 PM

I once taught a group of 5-year-olds in a summer Bible School class for one week. A little boy with leukemia who had just finished chemo attended as a "practice" before starting kindergarten in the Fall. I was at a total loss as to what to do, so asked another teacher for advice. She told me to just sit in a circle and let the kids talk. That's the best advice I ever received!

Subject: RE: Teacher needs help - songs for 4th grade
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 01:20 PM

I didn't mean to ignore your request for songs. But I think the advice holds for songs as well. Anything from you would not be received as well as heart-felt songs from the kids.

Subject: RE: Teacher needs help - songs for 4th grade
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 02:11 PM

"Feel like I'm fixin' to die rag" --- mm, maybe not.

"Strangest Dream" is a good suggestion, and easy to sing.

Or the round "Dona Nobis Pacem" (Tr. = Give us peace)

Or perhaps "Buttermilk Hill"...war from a woman's point of view

Or perhaps a discussion of the two views of war in two songs with the same tune: "Johnny I hardly knew ye" and "When Johnny comes marching home again." Discussing them in the context of the American Civil War might help the kids deal with the bleaker side of war by distancing it a bit. Or else use them as a jumping off point to discuss the media presentations of the war in Iraq before and after it started. Gung ho before we went in, but dwelling out all the alleged incompetancies and casualties now that the fighting is underway (like they expected it to be bloodless and 100% free of civilian casualties, let alone accidents and friendly fire).

That's my $0.02 worth, I'm sure other 'Catters will have more and better ideas!

Subject: RE: Teacher needs help - songs for 4th grade
From: Frankham
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 05:22 PM

The Music Of Healing is a Tommy Sands tune. It's a little old for 4th graders but they might grow into it. Down By The Riverside is always a good idea. The Hebrew song about swords into plowshares or (something else...what is it Mudcatters?) "It Could Be a Wonderful World" (not the Louis Armstrong cover tune).

If we could consider each other
A sister a friend or a brother
It could be a wonderful, wonderful world
It could be a wonderful world, oh yes,
It could be a wonderful world.    Written by Les and Hy someones.
From a compilation called "Little Songs on Big Subjects".

I'll try to think of some more.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Teacher needs help - songs for 4th grade
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 05:33 PM

Fair enough, BIll, thanks for the clarification, but I think we've still got enough musical content to leave it *up here*.:-)

Great suggestions, so far. I'll ask my sister to come in, too. She teaches music in an elementary school in a district with a lot of military attachments, so may have some suggestions, too.

You might look over the info at Teaching Tolerance. I see they have quite a few listings for war-related topics and kids.

Good luck,

kat

Subject: RE: Teacher needs help - songs for 4th grade
From: wilco
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 05:36 PM

It is not your position as a teacher to proselitize these kids about
your position on the war. You are way out of line. If i were one of the parents of these kids, i would be pissed.

Subject: RE: Teacher needs help - songs for 4th grade
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 06:18 PM

Wow, Bill. "(a lot of red necks and Faux News watching flag wavers, yet I must stand on my own priciples.)" If this is your jumping off point I would have to question your motives. An open discussion? Or a chance for you to convert them from their ignorant parents' point of view?

For the record: I am against the war.

Subject: RE: Teacher needs help - songs for 4th grade
From: curmudgeon
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 06:20 PM

wilco -- You are way out of line. In an ideal world, I might agree with you, but when the commercial media is Hell bent on supporting this war,. a true teacher must give time to the other side.

Re: 1st Amendment Rights, Tinker vs. Des Moines, "It can hardly be argued that teachers or students shed their rights at the schoolhouse gates."

If you still want to be pissed, do it up a rope -- Tom

Subject: RE: Teacher needs help - songs for 4th grade
From: curmudgeon
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 06:36 PM

Bill -- The old Gospel song, "Study War No More" might be a good choice, chorus songs are easy and appealing -- Tom

Subject: RE: Teacher needs help - songs for 4th grade
From: curmudgeon
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 06:54 PM

Please excuse, the previous post should have read "Spiritual," not "Gospel."

Subject: RE: Teacher needs help - songs for 4th grade
From: Little Robyn
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 07:29 PM

Don't forget the old favourites like Kumbaya. And do you know There'll be more joy, very similar. Full of hope - peace, love and joy.

Subject: RE: Teacher needs help - songs for 4th grade
From: Peter Woodruff
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 08:08 PM

I am very interested in this thread. My Maggie teaches 3rd grade here in Maine and we have talked about discussing the war with her kids. Most kids in her class are seemingly oblivious to what is going on outside of their own ego-centered worlds. However, There is one kid with severe mental and emotional problems that fixated on the globe in Maggie's classroom until he found the location of Iraq. This discovery seemed to break him out of his obsessive-compulsive mode of the moment. He is really more aware of the bigger picture than his classmates inspite of his problems. Fortunately, he has great parents who give him the special attention he needs. What age should we start explaining war and death with kids? What age should we start explaining sex or any other adult topic with kids? Didn't Maslow give us some idea of what kids at certain levels are capable of feeling and comprehending?

Peter

Subject: RE: Teacher needs help - songs for 4th grade
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 09:42 PM

I don't think Wilco was far off base, if at all. Teachers have a distinct advantage in the "molding minds" department, especially at this age, and other than providing a safe, free, loving, nurturing environment, should not go about "molding" opinions. I've seen too many bullies (teachers) try to control what children think, and IMO it's immoral, regardless of the motives. I don't think anyone has the right to control another person. Taking advantage of the teacher/student relationship in this way is wrong.

Back to songs...the children can tell you the ideas they want to express. It may be lonliness, fear, heartache, anger, or even the need to be silly and laugh. They may want to sing Kumbaya because it sounds pretty and expresses an emotion they have no words for. We as adults or teachers have no right to judge the appropriateness of a child's feelings, especially when they are confused and hurting.

Just my 0.02.

Subject: RE: Teacher needs help - songs for 4th grade
From: GUEST,Bill
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 09:57 PM

Wilco and Sinsul -
My intent is not to proselytize my own position. I feel it is iomportant that the issue of war be adressed in the classroom, and my remarks about the tastes, backgrounds of the parents was to show what I knew of them. If I wanted to push my views on the kids I wouldn't have bothered to ask for input. I have been teaching long enough to know the ethical aspects of my job. My classroom is not my bully pulpit. I do not try to change the kid's viewpoints away from their parents. I do try to lead by example, by showing all of the kids my genuine concern for their well being and for their learning. My sioncere prayers and hopes for these children is that they can learn to grow to undderstand peace and war, and hopefully have a more peaceful world to enter when they become adults.

Subject: RE: Teacher needs help - songs for 4th grade
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 10:03 PM

Peter, I just reread your question and it reminded me of a TRUE story of when my son was a little guy.

A dear friend was in the hospital in a coma, so my son asked about death. I forgot what I said, but it was an age appropriate answer. The news was on TV and he heard the word "rape" and asked what that meant. He was young, so I just said it's when a man does something bad to a woman. Then he said, "And there's something else I want to know." I braced myself not knowing what would follow death and rape. He wanted to know about Santa Claus. When I stopped laughing, he said, "I just want to know if it's you or Grandma!"

Yes, there are stages of understanding and comprehension. I forget if it was Maslow or whoever. I always thought it was interesting about depth perception and concreteness...facinating.

Subject: RE: Teacher needs help - songs for 4th grade
From: Dani
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 10:35 PM

When the rain falls
it falls on every one

When the rain falls
it falls on every one

No matter if you're rich or poor
No matter if you're great or small

When the rain falls
it falls on every one.


When the baby cries
it cries for every one
......

When the sun shines
it shines on every one
......


For some reason reading this post and thinking of the task that lies ahead of you, I thought of this wonderful song. It has motions from sign language that accompany it beautifully.

I really think the important thing here, regardless of our position on "the war", is to consider the impact on all, and be prepared, and prepare our children, for the future.

Good luck to you. They're fortunate to have you among them.

If you want the tune, send me a PM: I'll sing it for you.

Dani

Subject: RE: Teacher needs help - songs for 4th grade
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 10:47 PM

Goodonya Bill. The children are fortunate to have such a concerned teacher.

Sins and Wilco, if you will re-read Bill's initial post, I think you might get a different take. He did say he didn't want to offend any parents and that My heart is filled with compassion for these kids and their parents. I feel that a discussion of the war is somewhat appropriate in the classroom, but I want to do it in an appropriate manner.

That's good enough for me. Good luck to you, Bill and if you feel so inclined, I'd like to read about what you do choose to use and how it is received.

Thanks,

kat

Subject: RE: Teacher needs help - songs for 4th grade
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 11:04 PM

Hi, bill - what Kat said about Teaching Tolerance is good advice. You might want to aks their advice, since you are in a more sensitive situation than many. Since you're a teacher, many of the Teaching Tolerance materials and recording are free to you. Check their "teachers" section.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Teacher needs help - songs for 4th grade
From: GUEST,Bill
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 11:40 PM

Thanks to all for the feedback and resources. Teaching Tolerance was a good source for lots of various things. One of the links even gave me information in Spanish which I can send home with the five students who's parents speak no English.

I've been receiving Teaching Tolerance materials for several years, and I don't know why I hadn't checked there earlier.

Another good resource, for those who are eeking such things, was rethinkingschools.org which provided a lot of good information.

The important thing I want to do is to help the children discuss issues of war and peace in a sensitive environment, and I know that they don't always have a venue for those things.

Once again, thanks to all - even Wilco and Sins for the heads up on rationmality and keeping my opinions as my own.

A final note - there are many good songs about peace. Are there any songs about war which are simply about war and neither condemn it nor praise it?

-Bill

Subject: RE: Teacher needs help - songs for 4th grade
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 01:11 AM

Hi, again, Bill. If you go up tho the top righthand corner to the Lyrics and Knowledge advanced search box and put in "@war," without the quotation marks, you will find scads of songs to choose from in the Digital Tradition, also known as the "DT." If you have both the DT and Forum boxes ticked, that will also bring up a bunch of threads with the word war in them, so I'd advise unticking the Forum box before you hit the go button.

One song I've always loved which is positive, yet not specific about war, and does mention strife is Keep on the sunny side. It's in the DT. Also take a look at Folk Song Army and an old Civil War one called Going across the mountain. Don't know if they'd be of interest or appropriate, though. It's been a long time since I've had kids in grade school.:-)

kat

Subject: RE: Teacher needs help - songs for 4th grade
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 02:33 AM

Teaching Tolerance has a brand-new CD/songbook/workbook called I Will Be Your Friend, aimed at 2nd to 5th graders. It's free to teachers and school personnel; here is the ordering info. It's a beautiful book of 26 songs, by people like Woody Guthrie (his song is sung by Arlo), Pete Seeger, Malvina Reynolds, and Bob Blue, with an accompanying CD, as well as many classroom exercises dealing with diversity and tolerance.

Aloha,
Mark

(Oh, and one of the songs is mine! Fortunately, sung on the CD by a child, not me.)

Subject: RE: Teacher needs help - songs for 4th grade
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 09:54 AM

Thanks!   I'm getting a Fax ready now. I just have to run down our principal.   bet

Subject: RE: Teacher needs help - songs for 4th grade
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 10:12 AM

Way to go, Mark! Which one is yours, Mark? Do they have an audio sample of it?

Way to go, my dear sis/bet, just don't use your car to run down the principal, okay?**bg**