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BS: WAR:- Why the fuss when soldiers die

MC Fat 09 Apr 03 - 07:54 AM
artbrooks 09 Apr 03 - 08:40 AM
DougR 10 Apr 03 - 02:23 AM
michaelr 11 Apr 03 - 12:46 AM
michaelr 11 Apr 03 - 12:50 AM
DougR 11 Apr 03 - 02:12 AM
GUEST 11 Apr 03 - 04:35 AM
fiddler 11 Apr 03 - 07:54 AM
MARINER 11 Apr 03 - 06:37 PM
artbrooks 11 Apr 03 - 07:05 PM
DougR 11 Apr 03 - 07:14 PM
artbrooks 11 Apr 03 - 07:25 PM
MARINER 11 Apr 03 - 07:47 PM
Troll 12 Apr 03 - 03:28 AM
MARINER 12 Apr 03 - 05:40 AM
fiddler 12 Apr 03 - 06:47 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: WAR:- Why the fuss when soldiers die
From: MC Fat
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 07:54 AM

Knowing Beardy as I do any views he makes are straight and usually well thought out. Soldiers are as some folks pointed not paid to die but they are paid and trained to fight. They join up knowing that and as a consequence know there is a possibilty they could die ergo 'It's their job'. The most crass comment is about any American's life being worth more than Beardy's. How insular and parochial can you get. The old adage about you can always tell an American ...you can't tell him much but you can always tell him. Oh by the way Beardy hates Steve Earle how does that figure in your narrow minded viewpoint ?


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Subject: RE: BS: WAR:- Why the fuss when soldiers die
From: artbrooks
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 08:40 AM

Is Beardy not an American? How is one to know that? If he thinks, as he said, that its the job of soldiers to be killed or murdered, than he's still an ass.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAR:- Why the fuss when soldiers die
From: DougR
Date: 10 Apr 03 - 02:23 AM

A pretty callous one at that, Art. IMO.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: WAR:- Why the fuss when soldiers die
From: michaelr
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 12:46 AM

fiddler -- sorry if I'm seeing your post a bit late but you just made my day.

If we are rational lets pray

That's the best laugh I've had in weeks!

Thanks,
Michael


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Subject: RE: BS: WAR:- Why the fuss when soldiers die
From: michaelr
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 12:50 AM

DougR -- does it indeed escape you how perverse a term like "friendly fire" really is?

Michael


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Subject: RE: BS: WAR:- Why the fuss when soldiers die
From: DougR
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 02:12 AM

Michaelr: friendly fire happens during war. Regretable, but that's the way it is. Do you think that those who mistakenly take the lives of others by mistake do not regret it? If you do, then we have nothing else to talk about.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: WAR:- Why the fuss when soldiers die
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 04:35 AM

Innocent civilians is not a term used in todays world. The military refer to people as noncombatants, or hostiles. A civilian can kill you with a gun or a bomb easier than a uniformed soldier, because the soldier respects them as noncombatants until they prove otherwise.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAR:- Why the fuss when soldiers die
From: fiddler
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 07:54 AM

I'm not sure about Michaelr sems to me a bit callous and frivolous (unlike his predecessor MichaelX who was blessed with insight). We all pray in different ways to different Gods whether they be physical spirit, mentally spiritual or even mother earth our our own judgement!

Seems intent on just scoffing.

B*LL*X

It looks like Iraq is now on the up and we can draw all this to a close!

!!!!BRILLIANT!!!!!

A


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Subject: RE: BS: WAR:- Why the fuss when soldiers die
From: MARINER
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 06:37 PM

Does no one find it strange that ALL the "friendly fire" incidents are American troops killing Brits and none the other way around?. Likewise all the killing of civilians at checkpoints appear to be carried out by American troops and not the Brits (Will anyone ever forget the casual "The chic was in the way" comment from an American soldier who had just killed an Iraqi woman?) . By the last count the U.S. has killed more British soldiers than the Iraqis. This is something that the British were very apprehensive about in the beginning and it seems their apprehensions were justified.Mind you, if fairness they 've killed quiet a few of their own as well, despite trying to pin it on Iraq.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAR:- Why the fuss when soldiers die
From: artbrooks
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 07:05 PM

While I'm not excusing in any way the "friendly fire" incidents, its rather hard to make a meaningful comparison when many of them have involved close air support aircraft, and the British military do not have any in the theater.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAR:- Why the fuss when soldiers die
From: DougR
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 07:14 PM

I think it would be wise to wait a spell before adding up the number of those civilian and military that were killed. I doubt any reliable figures are available yet. Some of you were predicting hundreds of thousands of Iraqis would be killed, and I think it's probably safe to say that is not correct though.

Mariner: Are you implying that the Americans were targeting the Brits?

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: WAR:- Why the fuss when soldiers die
From: artbrooks
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 07:25 PM

A US Patriot missle shot down a British jet, killing 2. An A-10 pilot screwed up and attacked several British armored vehicles, killing 1. A British tank took out another British tank, killing 2.   That's all I can find on Googol, Yahoo and the BBC. What did I miss?


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Subject: RE: BS: WAR:- Why the fuss when soldiers die
From: MARINER
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 07:47 PM

DougR, I'm not implying anything at all, just wondering why the "friendly fire" all comes from the one direction, and why? Are the U.S. troops trigger happy? lacking in discipline? relying too much on technology and too little on common sense? or is it a lack of experience? (You will note that the Brits man checkpoints too, but they have yet to kill any civilians at them, that can be put down ,in part to their experience in Northern Ireland and the fact that their checkpoints are ,apparently, constructed differently, ie, the approaching vehicles HAVE to stop before they get to the actual barrier, whereas the Americans just seem to blow the shit out of them as they approach. Maybe the poor old Iraqi civilians, mostly women and children, are confused as to who's checkpoints they are coming up to?


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Subject: RE: BS: WAR:- Why the fuss when soldiers die
From: Troll
Date: 12 Apr 03 - 03:28 AM

It is my understanding that the Non-combatants who have been killed at checkpoints ahve been killed while attempting to run the checkpoint. In the case of the van where seven women and children were killed, it was learned from a survivor that the drivers family was being held by Saddam Husseins goons and threatened with death if he didn't try to run the checkpoint. The same thing applied to the passengers.
The young Marine who killed the Iraqi woman and said "the Chick got in the way" was not being callous. Later reports from embedded reporters say that he was so cut up by it that there was some question as to his mental state. Instead of a flat "The chick..." it was more an unspoken "Oh my G-d!" The chick..."
I know it's much more soul-satisfying to think of him as a remorseless killer with no conscience or regrets.
That plays right into the whole "soldier as murderer" scenario which, in turn, helps to justify opposition to a war to liberate a people. Not this time, however.
Sorry 'bout that.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: WAR:- Why the fuss when soldiers die
From: MARINER
Date: 12 Apr 03 - 05:40 AM

Troll, Funny, but that was not the way it was reported over here in Europe.But then, I don't think that the reporter was "embedded" and maybe was not given that "spin"? and had to rely on what he saw and heard.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAR:- Why the fuss when soldiers die
From: fiddler
Date: 12 Apr 03 - 06:47 AM

Mariner you've got it in one - Embeded reporters, spin and propaganda... Do we know what is going on - NO - do we understand what is going on - NO - we'd all like to but we won't see the documents until they are released in years to come when, sadly, as an octagenarian I shall probably be worried about the state of my teeth if I am still here! Modern in history Students will then be able to work out somewhere near the truth whcih I am sure none of us know.

BUT

The friedly fire incidents in both this and the last conflict do seem to be a bit unbalanced! shall I crack a really bad joke and state perhaps not enough marching and singing which all the movies seem to show as the best way to train American soldiers - sorry sick - but this is all heavy stuff. Letws get Dr B back in there and lets find that which in theory justifies the war - if it exists!


A


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