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Origins: Turpin Hero / Turpin's Valour

DigiTrad:
BONNIE BLACK BESS
BONNIE BLACK BESS (2)
BONNIE BLACK BESS (3)
DICK TURPIN AND THE LAWYER
TURPIN'S VALOUR


Related threads:
Review: Turpin play with songs (4)
Dick Turpin: is he famous in the USA? (36)
Tune/Chord Req: Turpin Hero (19)


GUEST,Roberto 04 Apr 03 - 04:43 AM
nutty 04 Apr 03 - 05:42 AM
nutty 04 Apr 03 - 05:55 AM
DonMeixner 04 Apr 03 - 07:04 AM
Bob Bolton 04 Apr 03 - 07:16 AM
masato sakurai 04 Apr 03 - 07:21 AM
Giac 04 Apr 03 - 07:28 AM
GUEST,Roberto 04 Apr 03 - 12:17 PM
RoyH (Burl) 04 Apr 03 - 02:25 PM
Stewie 04 Apr 03 - 07:17 PM
GUEST,Roberto 06 Apr 03 - 01:17 PM
Herga Kitty 06 Apr 03 - 01:45 PM
Malcolm Douglas 06 Apr 03 - 09:56 PM
RoyH (Burl) 07 Apr 03 - 04:20 PM
GUEST 07 Apr 03 - 05:23 PM
GUEST,Roberto 11 Apr 03 - 09:58 AM
Malcolm Douglas 11 Apr 03 - 08:14 PM
RoyH (Burl) 14 Apr 03 - 03:19 PM
GUEST,Raving mad roy 24 Aug 06 - 11:17 AM
melodeonboy 24 Aug 06 - 12:12 PM
Desert Dancer 24 Aug 06 - 12:38 PM
Jim Dixon 27 Aug 06 - 10:20 PM
Herga Kitty 28 Aug 06 - 12:49 PM
Joe Offer 21 Sep 11 - 01:31 AM
MGM·Lion 21 Sep 11 - 02:25 AM
Paul Davenport 21 Sep 11 - 06:26 AM
MGM·Lion 21 Sep 11 - 06:38 AM
MGM·Lion 21 Sep 11 - 06:46 AM
MGM·Lion 21 Sep 11 - 06:57 AM
Brian Peters 21 Sep 11 - 02:13 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 21 Sep 11 - 02:42 PM
GUEST,SteveG 21 Sep 11 - 02:51 PM
theleveller 02 Dec 11 - 05:42 AM
GUEST,SteveG 02 Dec 11 - 03:38 PM
GUEST,Leith Jnr. 07 Aug 12 - 03:17 PM
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Subject: Lyr Req: Turpin Hero: Roy Harris' version
From: GUEST,Roberto
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 04:43 AM

I'd like to get the lyrics of the ballad on Dick Turpin in the version sung by Roy Harris, titled Turpin Hero, in his Lp The Bitter and the Sweet. Can somebody help me? Thank you. Roberto


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Turpin Hero: Roy Harris' version
From: nutty
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 05:42 AM

This version is in the DT under the title of TURPIN'S VALOUR ......Is this the one you want??

Turpin Hero


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Turpin Hero: Roy Harris' version
From: nutty
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 05:55 AM

There is another version on this broadside in the Bodleian Library
...........

Turpin Hero

If it's neither of these - perhaps you could give more info.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Turpin Hero: Roy Harris' version
From: DonMeixner
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 07:04 AM

Is there an implication here he wasn't? Walt Disney thought he was.
I can't imagine Walt would lie.

Don


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Turpin Hero: Roy Harris' version
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 07:16 AM

G'day,

... Ask Burl ... ?

Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Turpin Hero: Roy Harris' version
From: masato sakurai
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 07:21 AM

The same broadside version is at the Street Ballads of Victorian England.

Other versions are:
"Turpin Hero" by John Roberts and Tony Barrand ("As Dickie rode out all across yon moor, he spied a lawyer riding out before")

Turpin Hero - Bold Turpin Hero is my name.
~Masato


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Turpin Hero: Roy Harris' version
From: Giac
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 07:28 AM

Well, thanks nutty for the Bodleian link. I'd read the DT version several times, thinking that lawyer must have had a huge head. First he said his money was in his "cap behind," then Turpin wanted to cut off his cap to make a saddle blanket for his mare.

Now I know it was his "cape" and not his "cap."

~;o) Mary


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Subject: Lyr Add: TURPIN HERO (from Roy Harris)
From: GUEST,Roberto
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 12:17 PM

That's what I could get from the recording of Roy Harris. If somebody has the Lp, can he/she please help me and add what I miss and correct the mistakes? Thank you. Roberto

Turpin hero

Turpin was a-riding across (…) moor (THE NAME OF THE MOOR?)
He spied a lawyer go a-riding before,
He said to the lawyer, "Now, ain't you afraid
To meet with Turpin, that mischievous young blade?"

Turpin hero!
Turpin was a hero,
He was a valiant, Turpin O! (NOT SURE OF THIS LINE)

He said to the lawyer, now let us be cute
We'll hide our moneys down in our boot
Oh, said the lawyer, well my gold he won't find
I got it all stitched down into my cloak cape behind

They rode till they came onto the foot of the hill
Oh, said Turpin, now you must keep still
My horse's in need of a new saddle-cloth,
So your cloak cape you must take off.

When that I have robbed you of all of your store,
You know very well that you can get some more,
At every town that you do come in,
Tell them you were robbed by the bold Turpin.

Turpin he was taken and in prison he was cast
For killing of a gamecock he will hang at last,
Fifteen golden guineas he has put by,
To pay Jack Ketch's salary high.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Turpin Hero: Roy Harris' version
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 02:25 PM

Hi Roberto, The first line is...... "Turpin was a-riding all across Ramsey Moor"

Chorus is......."To Me Hero, Turpin was a hero. He was a valious Turpin Ho"      I've no idea where 'valious' came from. A good word though. And a good song. Happy Singing. Burl


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Turpin Hero: Roy Harris' version
From: Stewie
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 07:17 PM

These make no difference, but I hear Harris singing the ungrammatical 'me' on each occasion that 'my' appears above and, albeit it does not serve the rhyming purpose as well, 'tossed' instead of 'cast' in the last stanza.

--Stewie.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Turpin Hero: Roy Harris' version
From: GUEST,Roberto
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 01:17 PM

Thank you very much, Burl and Stewie. Roberto


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Turpin Hero: Roy Harris' version
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 01:45 PM

Well, since Burl is Roy Harris, that has hopefully sorted out Roberto's query about Roy's version....


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Turpin Hero: Roy Harris' version
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 09:56 PM

Where did you get that one from, Roy? It looks like the set Fred Hamer got from William (Billy) Bartle -and has his "valious"- but it's changed a bit in transmission if that's the case. Please do let us know; if it's Billy's set I can add the tune.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Turpin Hero: Roy Harris' version
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 04:20 PM

I got it from Roger Grimes who used to sing at the Nottingham Traditional Music Club. Don't know his source but if the Billy Bartle version contains 'valious' it's likely to be his. It has 'changed a bit in transmission' albeit unknowingly over the course of 30 years of singing. I hadn't noticed 'tossed' instead of 'cast'. I haven't seen Roger in years. I believe he now lives in the Gloucester (UK)area.   'Valious' is a good word, a combination of valiant and glorious or chivalrous maybe. Whatever, I feel I know what it means. It's rather like Phil Tanner's 'Tribulous' in 'The Parson & The Clerk'. BTW Veteran are at this very moment working on a CD of Tanner's singing. When that comes out no lover of British traditional singing should miss it. Burl.


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Subject: Lyr Add: TURPIN HERO (from Roger Grimes)
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 05:23 PM

Hello Burl

Roger certainly is living in Gloucester. I am sure Roy got it from me, and 'Valious' certainly is a good word.

This is what I sing now

Turpin was a-riding across Ramsey Moor
He spied a lawyer go a-riding before,
He said old Gentleman "Don'y you feel afraid
For to meet with Turpin, that mischievous blade?"

To me hero!
Turpin was a hero,
He was a valious, Turpin O!

He said to the lawyer, let us be cute
And put our money in our boot
Oh no, said the lawyer, I've made sure of mine
I've got it sewn into my coat cape behind

They rode till they came onto the foot of the hill
Turpin said to thelawyer You must keep still
My horse's in need of a new saddle-cloth,
And your coat cape it must come off.

When that I have robbed you of all of your store,
You know very well where you can get some more,
At every town that you do come in,
You can tell them you've been robb-ed by the bold Turpin.

Turpin he was taken and in prison he was cast
For shooting a gamecock, hung,
Five hundred pounds that he has put by,
To pay Jack Ketch's salary high.

It's so long since I heard Roy sing it but it's probably as near as damn-it.

Heady days at the old NTMC eh burl - sadly missed

Roger (Alias Melodeon)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Turpin Hero: Roy Harris' version
From: GUEST,Roberto
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 09:58 AM

So, Burl is Roy Harris? In this case, I'd like to take this opportunity to tell him that I do appreciate his singing of traditional songs. I have his CDs The Rambling Soldier and Live at the Lion, and I have recently found, bought and transferred to CD three Lps, Champions of Folly, The Bitter and the Sweet and Sandbank Fields. I'd like to know if these recordings are available on official CDs, and if there are other recordings by him that I could buy, and where. Thanks. Roberto


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Subject: Lyr/Tune Add: TURPIN HERO (from Fred Hamer)
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 08:14 PM

Here is Turpin Hero as Fred Hamer got it from William Bartle:


TURPIN HERO

(William "Billy" Bartle, Wrestlingworth, Bedfordshire. Recorded by Fred Hamer)

Turpin he was riding across Ramsey Moor,
Saw a lawyer a-riding before,
He said, Old gentleman don't you feel afraid,
For to meet bold Turpin, the mischievous blade?
With my hero, Turpin was a hero,
He was a valious Turpin-O.

Turpin said to the lawyer, Let us be so cute,
And put our money into our boot,
Oh no, said the lawyer, I've made sure of mine,
For I've got it sewn into my coat cape behind.
With my hero, etc.

So they rode till they came to the foot of the hill,
Turpin said to the lawyer, You must stand still,
For my horse is in want of a new saddle cloth,
And your coat cape it must come off.
With my hero, etc.

And when I have robbed you of all your store,
You know well where you can get more,
So at every town that you do come in,
You can tell them you've been robb-ed by the bold Turpin.
With my hero, etc.

Turpin he was tried, in prison he was cast,
For shooting a gamecock hung at last,
Five hundred pounds that he had laid by,
To pay Jack Ketch his salary high.
With my hero, etc.


Fred Hamer, Garners Gay, EFDSS 1967.

Roud 621 Laws L10

"This is another of his father's songs, and Billy spoke of Dick Turpin as of someone who had ridden that way in the very recent past. He pointed out the gap in the wall near the Old Great North Road where Turpin had taken Black Bess on his famous ride to York."

X:1
T:Turpin Hero
S:William "Billy" Bartle, Wrestlingworth, Bedfordshire
B:Fred Hamer, Garners Gay, EFDSS 1967
N:Roud 621 Laws L10
L:1/8
Q:1/4=100
M:2/4
K:F
FF FF|F2 FG|A2 AG|F2 z2|A2 A2|
w:Tur-pin he was rid-ing a-cross Ram-sey Moor, Saw a
(AG) FA|c2 cc|c3 z|z2 (AB)|c2c2|
w:law-*yer a-rid-ing be-fore, He_ said Old
cB AB|c2 cc|c2 dc|B2 B2|Bd cB|
w:gen-tle-man don't you feel a-fraid, For to meet bold Tur-pin, the mis-
(AG) (AB)|c2 cA|F2 HG2|FG AB|(cA) HF2|
w:chie-*vous-- blade? With my he-ro, Tur-pin was a he-*ro,
B2 AG|d2 (cd)|A2 G2|F4-|F4|]
w:He was a val-ious_ Tur-pin-O.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Turpin Hero: Roy Harris' version
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 03:19 PM

Roberto.....PM me with your e-mail or home address. Regards, Burl.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Turpin Hero (from Roy Harris)
From: GUEST,Raving mad roy
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 11:17 AM

hi sorry to jump in but I am looking for a song about dick turpin, and the only thing I know about it is it starts "Dick Turpin Rode the highway" any ideas?

cheers Roy


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Turpin Hero (from Roy Harris)
From: melodeonboy
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 12:12 PM

"In Heaven There Is No Beer" has references to both booze and other drugs.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Turpin Hero (from Roy Harris)
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 12:38 PM

Melodeonboy -- wrong thread! Try this one.

'Course he'll look there and not here... so this is to say to others: he was providing a real answer to a different question!

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: Lyr Add: TURPIN HERO (from Bodleian)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 27 Aug 06 - 10:20 PM

Here are the lyrics from the broadside - see the links above.

TURPIN HERO

Turpin Hero is my name,
And I from Dublin City came.
It is by my slight and nimble hand
It caused me for to leave my land.

CHORUS:
And it's O rare Turpin O!
O rare Turpin O!

The very first man that I did meet,
It was a tailor in the street.
I picked his pocket and there I found
Scissors, a thimble and half a crown.

The very next man than I did meet,
It was a parson in the street.
I robbed him of all his store
And told him he may go and preach for more.

As I rode across London moor,
I saw a lawyer just before.
I rode up to him and thus did say:
"Have you seen Turpin ride this way?"

Then Turpin being so very cute,
He hid his money in his boot.
"Faith!" said the lawyer, "None shall he find,
For I'll hide mine in my cape behind."

They rode till they came to a powder mill
Where he bade the lawyer to stand still.
"The cape of your coat it must come off,
For my old mare wants a new saddlecloth.

"O now I have robbed you of all your store,
You may go to law for more;
And my name in question bring,
You may say that you were robbed by the rare Turpin."


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Turpin Hero (from Roy Harris)
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 28 Aug 06 - 12:49 PM

There's a 6-verse version of Dick Turpin in Bob Copper's "Early to Rise" (published in 1976).

Kitty


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Turpin Hero (from Roy Harris)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 01:31 AM

Here's the Traditional Ballad Index entry for this song:

    Dick Turpin and the Lawyer [Laws L10]

    DESCRIPTION: Dick Turpin, upon meeting a lawyer, claims to be so afraid of meeting Turpin that he has hidden his money in his boot. The equally nervous lawyer admits to having hidden his money in his coat. Turpin gaily relieves him of the cash
    AUTHOR: unknown
    EARLIEST DATE: 1867
    KEYWORDS: robbery lawyer humorous
    HISTORICAL REFERENCES:
    1735 - Dick Turpin comes to the attention of the authorities as a robber
    April 1739 - Hanging of Dick Turpin (by then retired from highway robbery; he was captured after getting drunk and shooting the landlord's cockerel)
    FOUND IN: Canada(Mar) Britain(England(South,North)) US(MA)
    REFERENCES (7 citations):
    Laws L10, "Dick Turpin and the Lawyer"
    Logan, pp. 115-121, "Turpin's Valour" (1 text, although Laws considers this as two pieces, "Turpin's Valour" and "The Dunghill-Cock")
    Mackenzie 125, "Dick Turpin and the Lawyer" (1 text)
    Kennedy 336, "Turpin Hero" (1 text, 1 tune)
    Friedman, p. 368, "Dick Turpin and the Lawyer" (1 text)
    LPound-ABS, 70, pp. 157-158, "Turpin and the Lawyer" (1 text)
    DT 570, TURPNLAW

    Roud #621
    CROSS-REFERENCES:
    cf. "My Bonnie Black Bess I" [Laws L8] (subject)
    cf. "My Bonnie Black Bess II" [Laws L9] (subject)
    ALTERNATE TITLES:
    O Rare Turpin, Hero
    NOTES: Versions of this generally place the incident on Hounslow Heath. This is probably a bit folkloric. According to Patrick Pringle in Stand and Deliver: Highwaymen from Robin Hood to Dick Turpin, each of the four great roads out of London had its hot spots for highway robbers, with Hounslow Heath on the Great Western Road being the most notorious spot of all (Pringle, p. 64). Turpin, however, is associated mostly with Finchley Common on the Great North Road (p. 66).
    What's more, this approximate story is told of other highwaymen, rather than Turpin; Pringle, pp. 86-87, tells how Francis "Dixie" Jackson met a lawyer in a tavern and was shown how he hid his treasure in his saddle. Several of Jackson's confederates then met the lawyer on the road and took his gold.
    On the other hand, David Brandon's Stand and Deliver: A History of Highway Robbery, p. 84, tells the story -- in a form even more like the ballad -- of William Davis, "The Golden Farmer" (died c. 1689). Evidently it's a "zipper" highwayman legend.
    For the rest of Turpin's history, see the notes to "My Bonny Black Bess (II) (Poor Black Bess; Dick Turpin's Ride)" [Laws L9]. - RBW
    Broadside: Street Ballads of Victorian England [circa 1850-1870] site, Folder 150, "Turpin Hero," J. Cadman (Manchester), 19C - BS
    File: LL10

    Go to the Ballad Search form
    Go to the Ballad Index Instructions
    Go to the Bibliography
    Go to the Discography

    The Ballad Index Copyright 2011 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle.


There's a Colin Meloy recording of "Turpin Hero" at YouTube.


-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Origins: Turpin Hero / Turpin's Valour
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 02:25 AM

By coincidence, a new touring play called Dick Turpin's Last Ride, a play with music, in which this song naturally occurs, has just opened. I have reviewed it on a separate thread.

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: Origins: Turpin Hero / Turpin's Valour
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 06:26 AM

It seems that Turpin, a member of a notorious gang of burglars might have acquired his 'legendary' status from the work of Harrison Ainsworth rather than the actuality of his exploits, many of which are actually attributed to two real highwaymen, John Nevison and Claude Duvall. In his book, 'Rookwood' Ainsworth appears to have created the Turpin of legend, even down to attributing Nevison's feat of riding from Gadshill in Kent to York in a single day to the undeserving Turpin. That said, I have chuckled over many a pint in the Green Dragon at Welton, East Yorkshire where Turpin, disguised as a farmer, did indeed shoot the landlord's cockerel because its crowing was annoying him. And that, at least, is history.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Turpin Hero / Turpin's Valour
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 06:38 AM

Paul ~~ That is exactly the topic of the play I mention in my post above yours: its rationale is a dramatised imaginary debate between Ainsworth & the shades of some who knew the real Turpin. See my review on thread below.

~M~


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Subject: RE: Origins: Turpin Hero / Turpin's Valour
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 06:46 AM

I have refreshed my review to bring it adjacent to this thread.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Turpin Hero / Turpin's Valour
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 06:57 AM

BTW ~~ no-one seems to have remarked that Roy's version {ex Hamer?} is sung to different tune from the, perhaps better known[?] O Rare Turpin version. It is the latter which comes in the play I mention that I have just reviewed on this forum under title "Review: Turpin play with songs".

Might interest Roy & others to know that, when I lectured on English Folksong for the British Council in Beijing and Guilin in 1989, based at Beijing Language University who made me a member of their English Faculty & actually paid me a salary {!}, the first song I sang at a mixed-music-genres concert at the University my first night there [in at the deep end] was the version I had learned from Roy. Though nowadays I more often sing the other.

~M~


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Subject: RE: Origins: Turpin Hero / Turpin's Valour
From: Brian Peters
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 02:13 PM

Roud lists many different versions of this song. The one I sing is from David Belton of Ulceby, noted by Percy Grainger.

Turpin Hero

There's also a song called 'Bold Nevison' that Grainger recorded from Joseph Taylor, telling the story of the real long-distance rider, mentioned above by Paul D.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Turpin Hero / Turpin's Valour
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 02:42 PM

From Shrewsbury Folk Festival a few weeks back, one of the newer (and best!) folk songs about Dick....


'Lizzie Loved a Highwayman' - Reg Meuross - Youtube

:0)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Turpin Hero / Turpin's Valour
From: GUEST,SteveG
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 02:51 PM

There are several contemporary accounts of Turpin's trial and execution on broadsides, some going into great detail, and of book length. Turpin Hero itself appears in seventeenth century garlands.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Turpin Hero / Turpin's Valour
From: theleveller
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 05:42 AM

In The Leaping Hare by George Ewart Evans and David Thomson there's a chapter on the naming of the hare, with a 13th century poem in Middle English that repeats 77 different names for the hare – most of them abusive, such as:

"Pe scotewine, pe skikart
Pe turpin, pe tirart"

Turpin, it appears, is the Old French for a soldier or a highwayman and comes from the Latin, turpis: nasty, corrupt, etc.

So was Dick Turpin, be reason of his name, destined to become a highwayman – or is it pure coincidence?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Turpin Hero / Turpin's Valour
From: GUEST,SteveG
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 03:38 PM

No-one spotted the daft error in my previous post so I'll correct it myself. It should of course say 'eighteenth century garlands'.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Turpin Hero / Turpin's Valour
From: GUEST,Leith Jnr.
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 03:17 PM

An interesting conversation. Keith Kendrick's version of 'Turpin 'Ero' brought me here...Nice to hear about the NTMC where me 'owd dad used to frequent and sing(Andy Leith).


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