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Subject: ADD: SEACHT NDOLAS NA MAIGHDINE MUIRRE From: GUEST,Kristine Robin Date: 04 Apr 03 - 12:50 PM Hi, I'm looking for the translation, history, and copyright info on the following song. I have been to a number of historical gaelic sites, and have had no luck finding this song. SEACHT NDOLAS NA MAIGHDINE MUIRRE (Seven Sorrows of Mary) An chead dolas do bhi ar an maighdean Nu air a toiriodh a leanbh Caipini dubha air, 's na Guidaigh a ghreadadh An triu dolas do bhi ar an Maighdean Nu air a toiriodh a leanbh E ar an grois cheasta, 's na tairni geara a ghearradh CHORUS: Aililiu o Iosa, ailiui is tu mo leanbh Aililiu o Iosa, is tu ri geal na bhFlaitheas An ceathru dolas do bhi ar an Maighdean Nu air a toiriodh a leanbh E ar chrann na croise ag, gail na ngrasta dar n-anam CHORUS: An seu dolas do bhi ar an Maighdean Nu air a toiriodh a leanbh E 'na hucht gleigeal 's e sinte fuar marbh CHORUS: |
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Subject: RE: Need translation for gaelic song From: Sorcha Date: 04 Apr 03 - 12:59 PM No luck. Aine's place, here, has 7 Joys in English, but not 7 Sorrows. Calling Phillipa! |
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Subject: RE: Need translation for gaelic song From: Willa Date: 04 Apr 03 - 02:08 PM Try this site, Kristine. it looks hopeful.http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=nd |
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Subject: RE: Need translation for gaelic song From: Willa Date: 04 Apr 03 - 02:12 PM Oops! that is the wrong link. I'll try again. http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ndolas+na+maighdine&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&meta= |
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Subject: RE: Need translation for gaelic song From: Brían Date: 04 Apr 03 - 05:01 PM The first sorrow the Virgin was To wake her child A black cap on him and the Jews beating him The third sorrow the Virgin had Was to wake her child He on the cross suffering And the nails cutting him Aililiu o Jesus, ailiui you are my child Aililiu o Jesus, you are the Bright King of Heaven The fourth sorrow the Virgin had Was when she waked her child He on the Tree of the Cross and (His soul going to grace)?-don't know what gail is The sixth sorrow the Virgin had Was to wake her child He in the Bright Bosom stretched out cold and dead. Maybe Declan or Phillipa could make more sense out of it. It is an Irish language version of a song known all over. Brían |
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Subject: RE: Need translation for gaelic song From: GUEST,Kristine Date: 04 Apr 03 - 06:01 PM Oh, thank you,thank you,thank you!!! Would you know where I could find some history on the song? |
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Subject: RE: Need translation for gaelic song From: Brían Date: 04 Apr 03 - 06:11 PM I'm looking around. I'm hoping some of our other "experts" will come around. I may have a more complete version in a prayer book. Brían |
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Subject: RE: Need translation for gaelic song From: IvanB Date: 04 Apr 03 - 07:57 PM FROM THE LINER NOTES TO "Celtic Requiem" by Mary McLaughlin & William Coulter: The Virgin Mary's first sorrow when her child was persecuted His knee-caps black and the Jews beating him. The Virgin Mary's second sorrow when her child was persecuted A rough shirt of horsehair on his back and his skin being torn. Chorus: Alleluia Jesus, alleluia you are my child Alleluia Jesus, you are the bright King of Heaven. The Virgin Mary's third sorrow when her child was persecuted He crucified on the cross and the sharp nails cutting him. The Virgin Mary's fourth sorrow when her child was persecuted He on the cross getting grace for our souls. The Virgin Mary's fifth sorrow when her child was persecuted His head on the top of a spike shedding his blood. The Virgin Mary's sixth sorrow when her child was persecuted He stretched cold and dead on her pure white breast. The Virgin Mary's seventh sorrow when her child was persecuted He stretched in the grave with the slabs across him. Translation by Eamonn O Donaill |
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Subject: RE: Need translation for gaelic song From: GUEST,Brían Date: 05 Apr 03 - 09:48 AM IvanB seems to have a pretty good translation of the version that I found in Ár bPaidreacha Dúchais. It was taken from a collection of Searloit(Charlotte) Ní Dheisigh called, Paidreacha na nDaoine. It was collected in Munster. There is an English translation called Prayers of the Gael translated by R. MacCrocaigh. I'm sorry, but there's no date for this. a caipíní dubh might be a cap worn by the executed. Brían |
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Subject: RE: Need translation for gaelic song From: GUEST,Kristine Date: 05 Apr 03 - 10:19 AM Thank you once again. I just love Mudcat Cafe! You can bring up the most obscure songs - and somebody knows about it!!! |
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Subject: RE: Need translation for gaelic song From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Date: 05 Apr 03 - 10:32 AM According to http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14151b.htm the Seven Sorrows dates back to the 13th century, 1239 to be specific. This is from the Catholic Encyclopedia. |
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Subject: RE: Need translation for gaelic song From: Brían Date: 05 Apr 03 - 06:58 PM Thank you, George. BTW, caipíní is plural for cap. It probably does refer to kneecap. Brían |
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Subject: RE: Need translation for gaelic song From: GUEST,Kristine Date: 05 Apr 03 - 08:16 PM Ok, I'm a happy camper! Thank you once again. |
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Subject: RE: Need translation for gaelic song From: Brían Date: 06 Apr 03 - 07:56 PM I am a little under the weather, Kristine, but I could add the full Gaelic text in a couple of days if you like. Can anyone add a melody? Brían |
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Subject: RE: Seacht nDolas na Maighdine Muire From: GUEST,Philippa Date: 07 Apr 03 - 11:24 AM there are a number of recordings available. Sorcha Ní Ghuairim is well worth listening to if you are interested in sean-nós singing. Nóirín Ní Riain has recorded Seach nDólas na Maighdine Muire, so perhaps it is also in her songbook - in which case sheet music will be available. On the internet I found references a Hector Zazou album "lights in the dark" with several singers, with Lasairfhiona Ní Chonaola,Breda Mayock and Katie McMahon representing Ireland. Also Antaine Ó Faracháin sings this song on the compilation "Where Linnets Sing" (and he sang it on stage at the Inishowen traditional singers weekend last month) |
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Subject: RE: Need translation for gaelic song From: GUEST,JTT Date: 08 Apr 03 - 11:30 AM To be "ar toraiodh" something means to be on its track, or hunting for it - like Toraiodh Diarmuid agus Grainne - the Pursuit of Diarmuid and Grainne. So I think the suggestion is that Mary's first sign of her child as she looked for him was x, then y, then z.... |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Seacht nDolas na Maighdine Mhuire From: Felipa Date: 18 Apr 03 - 02:58 PM You might also be interested in seacht suailce na Maighdine Muire Seacht nDólás na Maighdine Muire is indeed in Nóirín Ní Riain's book Stór Amhrán, published by Mercier. I have to get it from the library and it may be another week before I sent the tune to MMario for transcription. She includes some ornatmentation, which might complicate making an abc (Alison had problems transposing another song from that book). |
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Subject: Lyr Add: SEACHT nDÓLÁS NA MAIGHDINE MUIRE From: GUEST,Philippa Date: 24 Apr 03 - 09:00 AM SEACHT nDÓLÁS NA MAIGHDINE MUIRE (Seven Sorrows of Mary) An chéad dólás do bhí ar an Mhaighdean Nuair a tóiríodh a Leanbh Caipíní dubha air, 's na Giúdaigh á ghreadadh Luinneóg (refrain): Ailliliú, o Iosa, ailliliú is tú mo Leanbh Ailliliú ó Iosa, is tú Rí geal na bhFlaitheas An dara dólás do bhí ar an Mhaighdean nuiar a tóiríodh a Leanbh Léine gárbh róin air, 's a chraiceann a stracadh. Ailliliú … An triú dólás do bhí ar an Mhaighdean Nuair a tóiríodh a Leanbh Á ar an gcrois chéasta, 's na tairní géara á ghearradh Ailliliú … An ceathru dólás do bhí ar an Mhaighdean Nuair a tóiríodh a Leanbh É ar chrann* na croise ag fáil na ngrásta dár n-anam Ailliliú … An cúigiú dólás do bhí ar an Mhaighdean Nuair a tóiríodh a Leanbh A cheann ar bharr spíce ag tabhairt a chuid fola Ailliliú … An séú dólás do bhí ar an Mhaighdean Nuair a tóiríodh a Leanbh É 'na hucht gléigeal 's é sínte fuar marbh Ailliliú … An seachtú dólás do bhí ar an Mhaighdean Nuair a tóiríodh a Leanbh É sínte san uaigh 's na leaca air trasna. Ailliliú … (*Ní Riain has "cheann", but "chrann" makes sense) From Nóirin Ní Riain,Stór Amhrán. Cork: Mercier, 1988 Tune is included in the book and Nóirin Ní Riain is also one of the singers who has made sound recordings of this song. "tóiríodh a leanbh" means when her child was chased or hunted, Ní Riain translates this as "when her Child was falsely accused"; other than that Brían's translation fine, but incomplete (as were the Irish verses) "The first sorrow that was on the Virgin when her Child was falsely accused Black caps on him and the Jews beating him" Ailliliú o Jesus, allelujah you are my child Ailliliú Jesus, you are the Bright King of Heaven second sorrow the Virgin had –A rough shirt of horsehair on him and his skin being torn (because of the word "róin", I would have translated this as a rough sealskin shirt) 3rd sorrow He on the cross of torture And the sharp nails cutting him fourth sorrow the Virgin had … He on the Tree of the Cross obtaining graces for our souls fifth sorrow …his head on the point of a spike, pouring out its blood The sixth sorrow the Virgin had … he being on her beautiful bright lap (Brian's "bosom" would be okay also) laid out cold and dead. The seventh sorrow …he lying in the grave and the flagstones laid across him |
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Subject: RE: corrections to Gaelic song From: GUEST,Philippa Date: 24 Apr 03 - 09:11 AM 2nd verse: "nuiar" should read "nuair" ("nu air" was never right; this word for "when" comes from "an uair", the time/hour [that]) 3rd verse: "Á ar an gcrois chéasta" should read "É ar an gcrois chéasta","É" (E/) not "Á ", and I think "him [being] tortured on the cross" is a more accurate translation, but really makes little difference to the sense of the line 4th verse, add an accent mark on the "u" in ceathrú I hope that's all! |
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Subject: RE: seven dolours of Mary From: GUEST,Philipa Date: 24 Apr 03 - 09:19 AM these are not the same sorrows as given in the Catholic Encylopedia (thanks for the link, George) "seven dolours of Mary (according to the responsories of Matins: the sorrow - at the prophecy of Simeon; - at the flight into Egypt; - having lost the Holy Child at Jerusalem; - meeting Jesus on his way to Calvary; - standing at the foot of the Cross; - Jesus being taken from the Cross; - at the burial of Christ." |
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Subject: RE: Seacht nDólás na Maighdine Muire From: GUEST,Philippa Date: 06 May 03 - 06:14 AM note that JoeO has renamed this thread from the overly general title "Need translation for gaelic song" |
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Subject: RE: Seacht nDolas na Maighdine Muire - translation? From: MMario Date: 07 May 03 - 11:01 AM I'm hoping this converts okay. No time signature on the music, nor bar lines other then to seperate verse and chorus. X:1 T:Seacht nDolas Na Maighdine Muire N:Nóirín Ní Riain, "Stór Amhrán", Cork: Mercier, 1988 N:graphic of music sent by philippa Q:1/4=74 I:abc2nwc L:1/8 K:Eb G/2 G3/2 B/2 e3/2 e/2 e2e7/4 f/4 e2G2 w:An chéad dól-ás do bhí ar an Mhaigh-dean G3/2 B/2 (3d2e2(f e/2 d/2) e/2 e3/2- e2(_d3/2 c/2) _d2c2 w:Nuair a tóir-íodh a__ Lean-bh_Caip_-ín-í (B3/2 G/2) (A3/2 B/2-) B/2 c B/2 G/2 G3/2- G/2 (F E/2) E/2 E3/2-E2| w:dubha_ air,__ 's na Giúd-aigh_ á_ ghread-adh_ E7/4 F/4 A2 (3(G3/2 A/4 G/4) F2E2G7/4 A/4 (3c2d2(e e/2 d/2) w:Ail-lil-iú, o__ Ios-a, ail-lil-iú 's~tú mo__ e/2 e3/2- e/2 _d c/2 (_d3/2 e/4 d/4 c2)(B3/2 G/2) (3A2B2(c3/2 B/2) w:Lean-bh_Ail-lil-iú___ ó_ Ios-a, 's tú G/2 G3/2- G/2 (F E/2) E/2 E3/2- E3/2 w:Rí geal_ na_ bhFlaith-eas_ |
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Subject: RE: Seacht nDolas na Maighdine Muire - tune From: Felipa Date: 07 May 03 - 05:43 PM The songs and tunes in Stór Amhrán come from the repetoire of Pilib Ó Laoghaire, a singer from Cork who collected many of his songs in the Déise Gaeltacht of Waterford. Nóirín Ní Riain includes "Notes on the method of transcription used", which starts out as follows: "The use of bar lines implies a system of accentuation which is not applicable to most of the music transcribed in this book. Instead, one will find that the natural accentuation of the words is mirrored inthe thythmic flow of the music. In many cases, in fact,the rhythm of the words is the rhythm of the music. "I feel therefore that the use of bar lines would cause the reader to overemphasise the natural accents. Accentuation is more a matter of duration than emphasis by an increase in volume. "Another problem which faces the transcriber of sean-nós singing is the impositon of regular beats on the music...." Ossian Publications of Cork produced a tape to accompany the book. I don't know whether this tape is still available. |
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Subject: RE: Seacht nDolas na Maighdine Muire - translation? From: MMario Date: 12 May 03 - 09:34 PM midi posted |
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Subject: RE: Seacht nDolas na Maighdine Muire - translation From: GUEST Date: 05 Mar 05 - 06:21 PM Another recorded version of this old hymn is found onthe vinyl album "Farewell but whenever" (Gael Linn CEF 088) 1981 by Treasa O'Driscoll Chris Crilly |
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