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Origins: Jutland (Les Sullivan)

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JUTLAND


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Lyr Req: Battle of Jutland (6)


GUEST,Les Sullivan 22 Apr 20 - 03:41 AM
Joe Offer 20 Apr 20 - 03:27 PM
GUEST,Observer 20 Apr 20 - 06:57 AM
Charley Noble 01 Jun 06 - 08:15 PM
Mingulay 01 Jun 06 - 06:40 PM
Liz the Squeak 01 Jun 06 - 02:16 PM
Wilfried Schaum 01 Jun 06 - 11:27 AM
Keith A of Hertford 31 May 06 - 01:38 PM
Steve Parkes 08 Jan 02 - 11:26 AM
Snuffy 08 Jan 02 - 08:43 AM
Steve Parkes 08 Jan 02 - 03:39 AM
GUEST,Keith A at work 08 Jan 02 - 03:30 AM
Gareth 07 Jan 02 - 06:48 PM
Dead Horse 07 Jan 02 - 06:16 PM
GUEST,Keith A at work. 07 Jan 02 - 03:30 AM
Joe Offer 07 Jan 02 - 02:46 AM
Herga Kitty 06 Jan 02 - 03:18 PM
Gareth 06 Jan 02 - 01:01 PM
Keith A of Hertford 06 Jan 02 - 09:16 AM
GUEST,MCP 06 Jan 02 - 06:57 AM
Dead Horse 06 Jan 02 - 05:57 AM
Herga Kitty 06 Jan 02 - 05:50 AM
Dead Horse 06 Jan 02 - 05:43 AM
Keith A of Hertford 06 Jan 02 - 05:30 AM
Joe Offer 06 Jan 02 - 03:57 AM
GUEST,hrothgar 05 Jan 02 - 08:21 PM
Gareth 05 Jan 02 - 08:00 PM
Herga Kitty 05 Jan 02 - 07:16 PM
Gareth 05 Jan 02 - 07:05 PM
Keith A of Hertford 05 Jan 02 - 06:08 PM
Keith A of Hertford 05 Jan 02 - 06:03 PM
Herga Kitty 05 Jan 02 - 11:51 AM
masato sakurai 05 Jan 02 - 01:27 AM
GUEST,GUEST.Dave_Perasso 04 Jan 02 - 11:53 PM
Wolfgang 15 Nov 00 - 04:22 AM
GUEST,Les Sullivan c/o his fiance 14 Nov 00 - 04:37 PM
Little Hawk 13 Nov 00 - 02:53 PM
GUEST,Shanty Kees 13 Nov 00 - 01:37 PM
Little Hawk 12 Nov 00 - 10:46 PM
GUEST,John Gray / Australia 12 Nov 00 - 09:26 PM
GUEST,carys.roberts@aon.co.uk 12 Nov 00 - 01:31 PM
Linda Kelly 07 Nov 00 - 06:26 PM
Wolfgang 07 Nov 00 - 03:59 AM
GUEST,Shanty Kees 05 Nov 00 - 11:17 AM
Linda Kelly 04 Nov 00 - 11:12 AM
GUEST,Shanty Kees 04 Nov 00 - 05:43 AM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 01 Aug 98 - 05:28 PM
Pete M 01 Aug 98 - 07:00 AM
pkk 31 Jul 98 - 01:20 PM
31 Jul 98 - 05:27 AM
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Subject: RE: Origins: Jutland (Les Sullivan)
From: GUEST,Les Sullivan
Date: 22 Apr 20 - 03:41 AM

Although I wrote the battle of Jutland and own the copyright I am happy for anyone to sing these German verses Johnny Collins told me that a German shanty singer had added some verses in German but I did not hear his name or the verses these may be the same. I was in the Royal Navy and they teach that the Germans technically won the battle but the only time the high seas fleet set sail again was to surrender so we retained control of the north sea. If anyone wants to record this song I would need to be credited with what I have written. I have never refused permission yet, it would be polite to credit the writer of the German verses as well if this can be established and you wish to add or substitute them.


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Subject: ADD: Jutland (Les Sullivan) - German verse
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Apr 20 - 03:27 PM

Blessings Barbara led me to this performance of "Jutland" by Kessler and Perasso, with a German verse:

This wonderful song by Les Sullivan commemorates the Battle of Jutland, the largest naval battle of WW I and one of the largest of all time. About 6000 British sailors and 3000 German sailors lost their lives.

David Kessler and I were leading the Seattle Chanty Sing on 11 November 2016, Veterans Day in the US, and Armistice Day to most of the rest of the world, being the day that WW I ended, so it seemed appropriate do lead this song.

The German verse was added by a friend of a friend about 20 years ago when I lived in San Jose, CA. Unfortunately I've forgotten his name and so can't credit him.

Anyone who has suggestions for improving the German, either by a better text or by improving my pronunciation, is encouraged to send suggestions.

Here's the German text:
    Wohin Gehst du mein Siegfried
    Wohin Gehst du mein Siegfried
    Ich betrete ein Schiff im Wilhemshaven
    Ich gehe dort, mein liebschen

    Auf das Schiff Lützow, liebschen
    Auf das Schiff Lützow, liebschen
    Es strozt mit Kanonen, recht segelfertig,
    Zum Ehre mit Admiral Scheer

    Und woh ist Schiff Lützow, verschollen,
    Und woh ist die Ehre, verschollen,
    Und dreitausend Seefaher, verloren,
    Zum Meeresgrund im Skagerrak.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Jutland (Les Sullivan)
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 20 Apr 20 - 06:57 AM

Interesting stuff, and over the past couple of years some interesting things have been found out. One such thing has been work done by Southampton University relating to the supposed weakness in the design of the Royal Navy's battlecruisers. It has been established that on going into action, to increase their rate of fire flash doors were secured open in the Royal Navy's ships. This was not done in the German ships.

Tank models of both a German battlecruiser [SMS Seydlitz - survived battle badly damaged] and a RN battlecruiser [Queen Mary - blew up and sank] were made and subjected to exactly the same damage as was sustained by Seydlitz. Both vessels were put into exactly the same damage control state [dictates watertight integrity]. Seydlitz was hit 21 times by heavy calibre shells and was also torpedoed. The results of these tests showed that in the same damage control state both ships survived, if anything the Queen Mary being in slightly better state than Seydlitz.

Most accurate lines in any of the songs detailed above belongs to the late Keith A of Hertford's song:

"In the deep magazines the mighty guns ordnance,
Those thousands of shells stacked ready for use,
And up through the bulkheads up hoists to the turrets,
The cordite propellant stretched out like a fuse
."

In the earlier battle of the Dogger Bank, Seydlitz received a direct hit on her after turret that almost resulted in a magazine explosion - this near miss was examined by the German Imperial Navy after the battle and drill and procedures were altered throughout the German Fleet.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: battle of jutland
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 08:15 PM

Err, evidently the German High Seas Fleet did make a final sortie April 22-25, 1918, in a futile search for a Scaninavian convoy. However, no major forces were engaged and the Germans retreated back to their base.

The High Seas Fleet did not re-emerge from its base until after the surrender of Germany and her allies, and then only to be escourted to Scapa Flow, where much of the fleet remains today on the bottom.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: battle of jutland
From: Mingulay
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 06:40 PM

Wilfried, it matters not what they were called the poor sods were, like the British Tars and Tommies, just fodder for Imperialistic cannon of both sides. Just a month away now and we'll be remembering the events of 1st July 1916 and a little skirmish on the Somme.

I thank you, however, for the information which was new to my ears.

"......they've gone to the bottom at Jutland"


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: battle of jutland
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 02:16 PM

Strangely enough, I was remembering this day in a small village in the foothills of the Italian Alps, with a concert which included a Requiem (by John Rutter, not one of the good ones). The village was the first Italian place to see action in WWI, when the German and Austrians came over the mountains.

The concert was delayed in starting (no unusual thing in Italy) by the Priest having to say the Rosary for a person who had died in the parish that day. As a result, our concert became part of the rosary, with the Magnificat (My soul magnifys the Lord) the Priest's blessing and then the Nunc Dimitis (Now let my soul depart in peace). It concluded with the Requiem ~ we couldn't have picked a better programme for that day or that place..... and for the circumstances over which we had no control at all.

It made the entire evening so much more significant and special for all.

LTS


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: battle of jutland
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 11:27 AM

pedantic notice:
In WWI we hadn't a Kriegsmarine - it was called Kaiserliche Marine (Imperial Navy).
By the way: We even hadn't a German Army then, officially it was called Die Preussische Armee und die Bundeskontingente (The Prussian Army and the Federal Contingents).


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: battle of jutland
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 May 06 - 01:38 PM

90th anniversary today.
One survivor, Henry Allingham.


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Subject: RE: battle of jutland
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 11:26 AM

That's right, Snuffy--the first publc statue of a non-royal woman in the country; and she not even from Walsall originally! I was surprised to find that down here in Milton Keynes, there's a memorial to her in Woolstone church; she spent some time teaching (and touching people's lives) in the village before she became a nurse. A real heroine, she was!

Heroes and heroines ... Walsall is now also the home of the "Satanic" statue of Princess Di in black marble. I really can't see her in the same class as the people in this thread. (But let's discuss that elsewhere!)

Steve


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Subject: RE: battle of jutland
From: Snuffy
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 08:43 AM

Is the other one Sister Dora, Steve?


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Subject: RE: battle of jutland
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 03:39 AM

There's some info on John Cornwell, VC here; also John Carless, VC, who died at the Battle of Heligoland age 21 in similar circumstances. I mention him as a fellow son of Walsall (England); one of only two people thought worthy of commemoration with a public statue: there's a bust outside the library.

Steve


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Subject: RE: battle of jutland
From: GUEST,Keith A at work
Date: 08 Jan 02 - 03:30 AM

Whatever the motive, unleashing their awsome firepower on the residents of an undefended town like Whitby was a low point in the history of the Kriegsmarine.
The Billy Os who sailed to glory with Jellico would have been mindful of such deeds.
Keith.


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Subject: RE: battle of jutland
From: Gareth
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 06:48 PM

Good Point Dead Horse, try this Clicky for the outcome.

Gareth


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Subject: RE: battle of jutland
From: Dead Horse
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 06:16 PM

The shelling of coastal towns was part of the ploy to draw British units onto the guns of the High Seas Fleet, or at least out into the North Sea and maybe into the path of a waiting U-boat.


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Subject: RE: battle of jutland
From: GUEST,Keith A at work.
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 03:30 AM

Thanks all esp. Kitty and Gareth.
As has been said the German Fleet did not venture out again after Jutland. Previously, their operations consisted of sneaking across the North Sea and firing their huge shells into English coastal towns causing mostly civillian casualties. This, before aerial bombing of towns had become part of warfare, was considered an outrage here.
Talking ot air bombing, the Zeppelins of the Kriegsmarine gave us this also. Here in leafy Hertford my ex wife's grandfather, as a choir boy singing carols outside a Hertford building, lost an arm and other boys killed. You can still see shrapnell damage to that building.
Keith.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Jutland^^^
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 02:46 AM

No, we didn't have the tune, Mick. Thanks a lot for posting it. sounds just about the way I recall it.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: battle of jutland
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 03:18 PM

Keith

It pains me to say this, but you can fit the words to the tune of Spanish Lady (Dublin City) as well! If it weren't for all the previous versions and connotations, it would probably work as a slow air...

Kitty


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Subject: RE: battle of jutland
From: Gareth
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 01:01 PM

Link to Battle of Jutland site Here and here's a link to another Jutland site originally marked by Wolfgang.

Gareth


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Subject: RE: battle of jutland
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 09:16 AM

Kitty, she was the Wiesbaden. Well spotted. thanks again. Going back to the tune,Kitty, I am not comparing myself to him but John Tams wrote a melancholy song called Spanish Bride in which he incorporates the first verse of Spanish Ladies to its original tune but without the usual jauntiness.It works. Try it.
Farewell and adieu,
Keith.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Jutland^^^
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 06:57 AM

While this thread is 'Tune Add' I can't see the tune here or in any of the related threads (have I missed it?), so I enclose it below. The words are very slighly different from those posted and are taken from Les Sullivan's autograph version, though HergaKitty and I sang it slighly differently (changes noted below). I haven't checked back with Les' recorded version to see if the changes where what he actually sang rather than wrote.

Mick

BATTLE OF JUTLAND (Les Sullivan)

Where are you/ go-ing my/ Bil-ly/ O/
Where are you/ go-ing my/ Bil-ly/ O
I'm/ join-ing a/ ship in/ Sca-a-pa/ Flow
That's where I'm/ go-ing my/ Na-an/-cy

I'm/ join-ing Queen/ Ma-ry my/ Nan-cy/ O
I'm/ join-ing Queen/ Ma-ry my/ Nan-cy/ O
She's/ brist-ling with/ guns we're/ rea-dy to/ go
To/sail to/ glo-ry with/ Jel-li/-coe

But/ where is Queen/ Ma-a-ry/ - gone/ now
And/ where is the/ glo-o-ry/ - gone/ now
And/ six thou-sand/ sa-ai-lors/ - gone/ now
They've/ gone to the/ bot-tom at/ Jut/-land.//


X: 1
T:Battle Of Jutland
M:3/4
L:1/4
C:Les Sullivan
K:F
F> G F|A B A|G2 E|F3|
A> B A|c< c c|B2 G|A2
F|d< d d|c2 A|G A B|A3|
F> G F|A B A|G2 E|F2 ||
C|F> G F|A B A|G2 E|F2
F|A> B A|c> c c|B2 G|A2
F|d< d d|c2 A|G A B|A2
G|F2 F|A> B A|G2 E|F2 ||
F|E> F G|G A B/z/|B3| A2
F|E> F G|G A B/z/|B3|A2
F|E F G|G A B/z/|B3|A2
F|c> d c|c B A|G3|F2 z||


Changes when sung: part2 l2 replace 'I'm joining ship' with 'Joining a ship'
part2 l3 replace 'we're ready' with 'and ready'
part3 l4 replace 'They've gone' with 'They have gone' -bars sung as: (A> F A)


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Subject: RE: battle of jutland
From: Dead Horse
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 05:57 AM

Above reference to Japan: Obviously WW2. During WW1 Japan was on the allies side!
The battle of Jutland was interesting as both sides were attempting to lure a smaller force onto the guns of their main fleet, using battle-cruisers as bait.


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Subject: RE: battle of jutland
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 05:50 AM

While we're being spelling pedants, was the German ship Weisbaden or Wiesbaden?

Kitty


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Subject: RE: battle of jutland
From: Dead Horse
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 05:43 AM

When a nation is building ships in order to protect, it tends to build a large number of *standard* vessels. Whereas if it were to build in order to challenge, then it builds bigger, more powerful, but fewer. Germany was challenging British supremacy, and Japan was challenging U.S. power in the Pacific. Both these nations ignored treaties enforced by these powers to keep the status quo. And other old delapidated rock-bands;-)


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Subject: RE: battle of jutland
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 05:30 AM

Gareth, Hood was started that month but too soon for lessons to be learned, except in that Admiral Holland in the Hood was desparately trying to close the range to Bismark when she was struck.
Kitty, thanks, I will find the tune you mention.
Keith.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Jutland
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 03:57 AM

I plead guilty. I heard Dave sing it earlier this week and love it. I asked him to make sure the song had been posted at Mudcat. Thanks a lot, Dave - sorry I hadn't realized it had already been posted. Guess I'd better make sure it gets sent to the Digital Tradition.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: battle of jutland
From: GUEST,hrothgar
Date: 05 Jan 02 - 08:21 PM

Should someone develop a mnemonic to help in spelling mnemonic?


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Subject: RE: battle of jutland
From: Gareth
Date: 05 Jan 02 - 08:00 PM

Kitty,

Spanish Ladies started off life as a pilots menonic (Sic).

Take the sailing directions and prick them on a chart of the English channel. A Safe course to the Downs and then the Nore.

The fact that it seems to have been around for many hundred years is a tribute to the usefulness of the menonic.

I submit it did not degenarate to a jolly drinking song till much later.

For similar folk creep "Brave Benbow" is normally sung as a jolly fast tune.

Acually some years ago I was part of a group that did a similar menomic song about sailing up the Medway. Trouble was it was such a drunken night in a Sailing Club at Upnor none of us could remember or decipher our notes come the Morning !!!!

Gareth


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Subject: RE: battle of jutland
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 05 Jan 02 - 07:16 PM

Keith A

Interesting that you wrote it to fit to Spanish Ladies, which I always think of as a jolly tune. The tune that came to mind when I read the words was Nell Flaherty's Drake/ The Waterford Boys - which conversely are comic songs set to a not particularly jolly tune (depends on the speed at which you sing it though).

Kitty


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Subject: RE: battle of jutland
From: Gareth
Date: 05 Jan 02 - 07:05 PM

To the best of my knowledge historically correct.

Minor point:

Beatty's comment was (alledged)"There's something wrong with our bloody Ships today" Though I suspect that that was bowdlerised too!.

Major point: The Imperial Navy never sought battle again.

A cynic might point out that construction of HMS Hood was comenced in that month - 25 years later lessons seemed not to have been applied HMS HOOD SITE though now that the wreck has been surveyed there is some thought that it was'nt a hit on the main aft magazine, but on the Torpedo store.

Musically I have no difficulty vocalising it. But there are better, and more objective critics than me - sorry I tend to be litteral.

But yes it is proper that these things are recorded in song, for when oral history dies, or fades away, what are we left with ????

Well done !!

Gareth


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Jutland
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jan 02 - 06:08 PM

I would be grateful for any feedback on my Jutland song on the old, refreshed post.
Thanks,
Keith.


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Subject: Lyr Add: JUTLAND 1916
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jan 02 - 06:03 PM

JUTLAND 1916
(Keith A of Hertford)
Tune Spanish Ladies.

On the last day of May out of Rosyth and Scapa,
Sailed the mightiest fleet that the world had yet known,
In columns and ranks to the grey Jutland banks
Under young Admiral Beatty and old Jellico.

In the deep magazines the mighty guns ordnance,
Those thousands of shells stacked ready for use,
And up through the bulkheads up hoists to the turrets,
The cordite propellant stretched out like a fuse.

Their sides stoutly armoured to fend off a broadside,
To fend off a broadside as in Nelson's day,
But at vast modern ranges a shell steeply plunges,
Finding only thin deckplates to stand in it's way.

At four in the evening Indefatigable exploded,
Her thousand man crew died at once in the burn,
At 4.25 twelve hundred more lives,
Were lost as Queen mary exploded in turn.

Arbuthnot's light cruisers wrecked the German, Weisbaden,
But he led them too close to the High Sea Fleet's Guns,
The Warrior, Defence and the Black Prince were shattered,
Arbuthnot was killed with two thousand more sons.

Brave Hood's battlecruisers then rejoined the battle,
Left Lutzow and Pillau to drift on the tide,
But turning away through the fountains of spray,
Brave Hood and all hands on Invincible died.

They burned and they drowned, those true British sailors,
They burned and they drowned on that last day of May.
Off Skaggerack shore, six thousand and more,
For there's something wrong with our poor ships today.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Jutland
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 05 Jan 02 - 11:51 AM

Johnny Collins heard me and Mick Pearce singing this at Herga one Monday, and asked where it came from. We pointed out that it was on the tape of Les Sullivan's songs, "Fire of Life" that Les had given him ... thanks to Johnny the song has spread far and wide, and is now sung in several languages. Les has written a lot of other good songs too!

Kitty


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Jutland
From: masato sakurai
Date: 05 Jan 02 - 01:27 AM

It's been posted HERE, and discussed HERE.
~Masato


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Subject: LYR ADD: Jutland
From: GUEST,GUEST.Dave_Perasso
Date: 04 Jan 02 - 11:53 PM

Here are the words to a great song by Les Sullivan. I got it from the singing of Johnny Collins:

It's about the battle of Jutland in WWI. The English Fleet, under the command of Admiral Jelico sailed from Scarpa Flow and met the German fleet off in the Baltic sea. In a few hours 6000 English sailors were lost and about the same number of German sailors. Both sides claimed victory. The Germans because they sunk more ships, and the British because they dominated the seas after that.

Jutland

Les Sullivan

Where are you goin' my Billy-o?
Where are you goin' my Billy-o?
I'm joining a ship in Scarpa Flow
That's where I'm goin' my Nancy
I'm joining Queen Mary, Nancy-o
I'm joining Queen Mary, Nancy-o
She's bristling with guns and ready to go
Sailing for glory with Jellicoe
But where is Queen Mary? Gone now.
And where is the glory? Gone now
And six thousand sailors? Gone now
They are gone to the bottom at Jutland.

For 2nd and third verses, substitute names of sailor and ship.

Rodney-o Invincible
Johnny-o The Black Prince


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Subject: Lyr Add: JUTLAND (Les Sullivan)^^
From: Wolfgang
Date: 15 Nov 00 - 04:22 AM

Below you'll find the song in an easier to read shape, making it more probable that it'll be harvested for the DT. I have added a note to explain one name with which the non-British mudcatters might not be familiar with (sorry, if I'm wrong). A short account of that battle including a map can be found here.

Wolfgang

(one question: how do you pronounce 'Jutland'?)

JUTLAND -
(Les Sullivan)

Where are you goin' my Billy-O, (2x)
I'm joining a ship in Scapa Flow,
That's where I'm going my Nancy.
I'm joining "Queen Mary" Nancy-O,
Joining "Queen Mary" Nancy-O,
She's bristling with guns and ready to go,
To sail to glory with Jellicoe*,
But where is "Queen Mary"? Gone Now!
And where is the glory? Gone Now!
And six thousand sailors, Gone Now!
They have gone to the bottom at Jutland.

Where are you goin' my Rodney-O, (2x)
I'm joining a ship in Scapa Flow,
That's where I'm going my Nancy.
I'm joining "Invincible" Nancy-O,
Joining "Invincible" Nancy-O,
She's bristling with guns and ready to go,
To sail to glory with Jellicoe,
But where is "Invincible"? Gone Now!
And where is the glory? Gone Now!
And six thousand sailors, Gone Now!
They have gone to the bottom at Jutland.

Where are you goin' my Johnny-O, (2x)
I'm joining a ship in Scapa Flow,
That's where I'm going my Nancy.
I'm joining the "Black Prince" Nancy-O,
Joining the "Black Prince" Nancy-O,
She's bristling with guns and ready to go,
To sail to glory with Jellicoe,
But where is the "Black Prince"? Gone Now!
And where is the glory? Gone Now!
And six thousand sailors, Gone Now!
They have gone to the bottom at Jutland.

*: Jellicoe: Sir John Jellicoe, 1859-1935, commander of the British fleet at the battle of Jutland, later First Sea Lord.
^^


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jutland by Les Sullivan
From: GUEST,Les Sullivan c/o his fiance
Date: 14 Nov 00 - 04:37 PM

Thanks for putting this on the site. I've only just found you but will endeavour to keep posted now.

If anyone wants words to any other of my songs please let me know.


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Subject: RE: battle of jutland
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 02:53 PM

For lovers of ships of the dreadnought era...

There are now 2 beautiful plastic model kits available of 2 of the German capital ships...the Konig and the Grosser Kurfurst. These models are in 1/350 scale by ICM (of the Ukraine). They are very well done kits, full of fine detail. One of them is reviewed in Fine Scale Modeler's latest issue.

There's also the old Airfix 1/600 scale model of Britain's Iron Duke, Admiral Jellicoe's flagship at Jutland...not a bad kit either.

Just letting you know, in case any of you are hobbyists like myself. The world war I ships are rare in the modeling field as yet.


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Subject: RE: battle of jutland
From: GUEST,Shanty Kees
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 01:37 PM

Please read my entry 1 or 2 weeks ago:

Lyrics requested for the song Jutland. The lyrics are there.


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Subject: RE: battle of jutland
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 10:46 PM

The Battle of Jutland was an interesting case of a battle where both sides claimed victory. The German fleet had hoped to catch a portion of the British fleet and destroy it, while avoiding contact with the main body. The entire British fleet was simply too numerous for the German High Seas fleet to take on. The Germans came close to achieving their objective in the early stage of Jutland, sinking 2 British battlecruisers, but then found themselves shortly under the guns of the British main body of battleships. Only the famed "battle turn-away manuever" saved them from utter disaster. It was a maneuver considered too dangerous for practicality by the British, but it worked for the Germans. They spent the rest of the evening and the night that followed, desperately trying to reach safe waters, and eventually did.

Tactically, the battle was more or less a draw.

In terms of ships sunk, it was a German victory.

In terms of strategic result (the most important aspect) it was a British victory.

The Germans made 1 or 2 unenthusiastic forays after Jutland, and returned quickly to harbour without engaging the British. It was plain to both the German commanders and sailors that the British fleet was too strong for them. When they were ordered to sea in the last days of the war (which was clearly lost) the naval troops mutinied and siezed the ships. These same ships were later sailed sadly to internment at Scapa Flow (British base in Scotland), and not much later were scuttled there by their own crews in a last act of defiance. It was a miserable end for a once proud fleet which always showed bravery and deserved a better fate.

I had the old Avalon Hill game "Jutland" and played it numerous times with friends. The Germans had individually tougher ships, but they simply could not win, because they didn't have enough of them. As for the British, they had tradition and experience on their side, as well as numbers...they were certainly the world's most effective fleet at that time, no doubt of that.


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Subject: RE: battle of jutland
From: GUEST,John Gray / Australia
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 09:26 PM

Yes, British ships were blowing up all around and Beattie, the admiral of the battlecruiser squadron, with typical English understatement made the remark ; "there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today".

JG / FME.


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Subject: RE: battle of jutland
From: GUEST,carys.roberts@aon.co.uk
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 01:31 PM

message from Les Sullivan

As the author of the song 'Battle of Jutland' which appears to be the song in question I would be happy to answer any queries that anyone has.

Although I have recorded this song in the past, it is not currently available. It will however be on my new cd due out next year

Currently it is on Johnny Collins latest cd 'Now and Then' ONTCD2002 from Old and New Tradition. Details on his web site


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jutland by Les Sullivan
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 07 Nov 00 - 06:26 PM

Thank you so much for these lyrics - this has ended a long search.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jutland by Les Sullivan
From: Wolfgang
Date: 07 Nov 00 - 03:59 AM

Just in case you don't know and would like to know, the Battle of Jutland was a sea battle between the British and the German fleets, May 31/June 1 1916. The three ships mentioned above are three of the top four British losses ('Indefatigable' isn't a good name for a song because it's too long). Here's a table of the Battle of Jutland material losses.
The battle was a victory for the British fleet though it doesn't look so at the first glance. Britain lost a larger number of ships, more ship tonnage, and much more hands (about three times as much as Germany). The number of hits, however, saw a large British advantage. It seems curious that a fleet scoring about twice as much hits as the opposing fleet lost much more hands and slightly more material. The reason is a faulty design in British ship construction which meant that some British ships went down with very few hits whereas German ships returned into the harbour with many hits on them. For the same reason, the British ships went down very quickly taking with them nearly all hands, whereas the German ships (with one single exception) went down slowly and a large number of hands could be taken on other ships.
That so many large British pre-Dreadnought ships went down so quickly in a victorious battle after only very few hits is the historical background to the song above.
Why was it a British victory after all, despite larger losses inflicted on them? It was the last time in that war that the German fleet left the harbour. On the day following the battle, who was there on the ocean looking for survivors or enemy ships having lost their way? The loser of that particular battle but long run winner.^^

Wolfgang


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Subject: Lyr Add: JUTLAND (Les Sullivan)^^
From: GUEST,Shanty Kees
Date: 05 Nov 00 - 11:17 AM

Ickle Dorritt,

Johnny Collins recorded Jutland on his latest CD "Now & Then" which was recorded this summer. I think I got the words allright now:

Jutland
(Les Sullivan)

Where are you goin' my Billy-O, (2x)
I'm joining a ship in Scapa Flow,
That's where I'm going my Nancy.
I'm joining "Queen Mary" Nancy-O,
Joining "Queen Mary" Nancy-O,
She's bristling with guns and ready to go,
To sail to glory with Jellicoe,
But where is "Queen Mary"? Gone Now!
And where is the glory? Gone Now!
And six thousand sailors, Gone Now!
They have gone to the bottom at Jutland.

Where are you goin' my Rodney-O, (2x)
I'm joining a ship in Scapa Flow,
That's where I'm going my Nancy.
I'm joining "Invincible" Nancy-O,
Joining "Invincible" Nancy-O,
She's bristling with guns and ready to go,
To sail to glory with Jellicoe,
But where is "Invincible"? Gone Now!
And where is the glory? Gone Now!
And six thousand sailors, Gone Now!
They have gone to the bottom at Jutland.

Where are you goin' my Johnny-O, (2x)
I'm joining a ship in Scapa Flow,
That's where I'm going my Nancy.
I'm joining the "Black Prince" Nancy-O,
Joining the "Black Prince" Nancy-O,
She's bristling with guns and ready to go,
To sail to glory with Jellicoe,
But where is the "Black Prince"? Gone Now!
And where is the glory? Gone Now!
And six thousand sailors, Gone Now!
They have gone to the bottom at Jutland. ^^


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jutland by Les Sullivan
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 11:12 AM

I have tried this before to no avail and so far as I know it is not recorded even by Johnny Collins who sings it. If you are successful please let me know!


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Subject: Lyr Req: Jutland by Les Sullivan
From: GUEST,Shanty Kees
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 05:43 AM

Is there anyone who can help me to the words of the song "Jutland" by Les Sullivan?

Click for related thread


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Subject: RE: battle of jutland
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 01 Aug 98 - 05:28 PM

Jutland was part of Germany then, was it not, with the inhabitants voting to join Denmark after the war?


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Subject: RE: battle of jutland
From: Pete M
Date: 01 Aug 98 - 07:00 AM

The Black Prince (Armoured Cruiser, 1st Cruiser Squadron) was lost at Jutland, Admiral of the Fleet Sir John (later Lord) Jellicoe was the British C in C The Rodeny was not in the order of Battle, and I'm not sure if a ship of that name was in commission in 1916. The figure of 6000 lost (killed, wounded, and taken prisoner) is pretty accurate though (The official figure is 5914)

Pete M


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Subject: RE: battle of jutland
From: pkk
Date: 31 Jul 98 - 01:20 PM

vague recolections of chorus which goes

where is the rodney she;s gone down where is the black knight she's gone down where is the ??? she's gone doen she's gone down in jutland with 6000 men who sailed with admiral gerico


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Subject: RE: battle of jutland
From:
Date: 31 Jul 98 - 05:27 AM

The battle of Jutland is known to the Germans as the Battle of the Skagerrak. Boy seaman First Class John Cornwell, was awarded the Victoria Cross posthumously for continuing to serve the forward gun of HMS Chester, although mortally wounded with the remainder of the crew killed or wounded, until the end of the action.

The action was tactically indecisive with the British Battle Cruiser squadron losing three ships due to faults in the fire protection mechanisms for the magazines (apparantley some ships had removed the flash barriers to allow shells and propellant to be delivered to the guns more quickly) and were saved from defeat by the arrival of the 5th Battle Squadron. They then succesfully drew the German main Battle fleet into range of the British battle fleet, who sucessfully "crossed the T". The German fleet withdrew and after both fleets missed each other in the dark despite a series of desperately fought actions by members of the opposing destroyer and cruiser screens, reached harbour safely.

However as the German sea never put to sea again the action is generally regarded as a strategic victory for the Royal Navy.

Don't know of any song about John Cornwell though.

Pete M.


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