Singing in dialect

Subject: RE: Folklore: Singing in dialect
From: Leadfingers
Date: 16 Apr 03 - 08:19 PM

Here's old Leadfingers back on one of his Hobby Horses.If it FEELS OK
then sing it.If it Doesnt feel Ok leave it in the 'To learn' basket
until it DOES feel OK.I do (occasionaly)songs that are NOT in my own
language--Even in Geordie--If I feel comfortable,its no problem.Other
wise,its back to the drawing board.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Singing in dialect
From: Padre
Date: 16 Apr 03 - 08:16 PM

Don, Are you distinguishing between 'dialect' and 'language' in your post? That is, do you mean that you see [hear?] a difference between singing a song in English but with a regional or national dialect, and singing a song in a foreign language?

Padre

Subject: RE: Folklore: Singing in dialect
From: Deckman
Date: 16 Apr 03 - 07:37 PM

Hi Don, your last posting made me remember some horrible memories from my youth. I well remember when I was 17, or 20, or 25, and I would learn all these wonderful songs in other dialects or other languages. I would then 'broadcast' them to whoever was around. I didn't have a clue what they meant, and I'm quite sure I stepped on many, many toes. At the ripe old age of 65, I now remember those mistakes as "the arrogance of youth!". CHEERS, Bob

Subject: RE: Folklore: Singing in dialect
From: DonMeixner
Date: 16 Apr 03 - 07:30 PM

That was certainly a need bit of fooked ooop typing wasn't it. :-)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Singing in dialect
From: DonMeixner
Date: 16 Apr 03 - 07:28 PM

Rapaire,

I understand that phenom well. And I think there is no issue there.

My concern is with Don Meixner in central New York State singing The Wild Geese in a broad SCoots accent to a bunch of local worthies whose best knowledge of things Sctlandish is when we have pipe bands march in the Memorial Day Parade.

Don

Subject: RE: Folklore: Singing in dialect
From: Deckman
Date: 16 Apr 03 - 07:26 PM

Dead Horse ... well said. I actually love the sound of several languages. And, as a singer, I know several songs in several different languages. However, I speak only three passibly. So, I indulge myself by reveling in this wonderful music in other languages ... but ONLY when I'm alone. I would never presume to sing a Czech song in front of a Czech, 'nor a french Canadien ditty in front of someone who knows the language well. I would feel insulting. But, that doesn't mean that I can't enjoy them, to MY fullest, when I'm alone. And I do, daily. CHEERS, Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: Folklore: Singing in dialect
From: DonMeixner
Date: 16 Apr 03 - 07:24 PM

McGrath, yes that should read NEITHER, maybe a Joe Clone will see this and fix it. Thanks for pointing that out. Sometimes I don't type so red hot and miss the odd letter.

Don

Subject: RE: Folklore: Singing in dialect
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Apr 03 - 07:23 PM

I agree with DH. But...I have a problem, in that when I spend any time in a country where the rhythm and dialect differ from that I learned at my Mommy's knee, I start speaking with the "new" rhythm and dialect. That is to say, in Ireland I'll start speaking with an Irish accent (and even that will change from one part of the country to another), in the American South I'll start a Southern one, etc.

This is not meant to mock or try to fit in, but it's totally unconscious. My youngest brother does it too; he learned Japanese this way in about a month (total immersion, though).

So, what do I do? I don't want to seem like I'm trying to be something I'm not, but I do like many songs which are in dialects not my own.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Singing in dialect
From: Dead Horse
Date: 16 Apr 03 - 06:56 PM

A large number of sea shanties are meant to be sung in dialect, mostly a strong Irish accent is called for, and others in, for want of a more pc word, Nigger English.
It is ridiculous (sometimes intentionally so) to sing many songs in Queens English.
"My aged pater is a refuse disposal operative"
"He dons protective headwear supplied for his calling"
"He also sports Deity-Strike-Me-Sightless leg-wear"
"And he resides in an apartment provided by the local housing authority"
Now THAT is pretentious!
I dont mind singing a couple of songs in French, learned parrot fashion, but I do feel distinctly uncomfortable singing 'em when there is a Frenchman in the audience, for fear of being lynched!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Singing in dialect
From: greg stephens
Date: 16 Apr 03 - 06:41 PM

I dont mind singing music in a language I dont know,and I love listening to music in languages I dont know. Music is sound, after all. The literal meanings of the lyrics is only part of what the song can do for you. What does "folderiddleido" mean, when all's said and done?
   I would feel stupid trying to sing in broad Scots though, though you can get sucked into it if you're singing along with someone! With some dialect songs, the dialect is integral, as the song is used to reinforce a regional identity...in which case it's not for you anyway, though you can enjoy listening. Sing it how you feel, anyway, that's my motto.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Singing in dialect
From: John Routledge
Date: 16 Apr 03 - 06:36 PM

I think it is better to sing in modern english rather than get the accent horribly wrong.

This is on the assumption that the lines still scan and rhyme and the modern version maintains some of the essence of the origional.

This is not really possible with some songs sung in dialect.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Singing in dialect
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Apr 03 - 06:32 PM

"I already feel it is pretentious as all hell to sing a song in a language that either I or my audience doesn't know" - if you mean when neither of you know the language, fair enough (though not in all circumstances). But I can't see anything pretentious in singing a song in a language you know, even if the people listening don't know, if that's what you meant.

Turning a song closer to your own language when you are singing it makes a lot of sense. It's what happens to songs which get into the general repertoire anyway. Nobody puts on a Scots accent to sing Auld Lang Syne, even when they keep some of the non-English words.

Anyway a lot of people would rank the Doric as a separate language rather than a dialect, and the same for Geordie.

Subject: Folklore: Singing in dialect
From: DonMeixner
Date: 16 Apr 03 - 06:18 PM

As I sat here just now listening to The Wild Geese as sung by JIm Reid
I am minded of an old puzzle for me. That is to sing in a dialect that is not my own. I already feel it is pretentious as all hell to sing a song in a language that either I or my audience doesn't know but what about dialect.

I know what Dinna Ken means and I guess I have learned over the years what a lot of Scotts and Irish dialect means. But am I going beyond the realm of good performance or maybe better stated, honest performance when I change Ken to "Know" or "Blawin' Frae the Land" to "Blowin' From the Land"?

The translation of the words from Scotts English to modern English has its disappointments no doubt. Some of the color of the song may be lost if the words are read off the sheet that way but is it possible to sing the translated song with the right emotion in the performance and still keep the color of the song intact? ( I hope that is clear?)

There is a fine line between doing song for the sake of the song and doing it for the sake of scholarship.

Don