Subject: RE: Help: Please Identify This Song-Red Rosy Bush From: leeneia Date: 20 Aug 21 - 12:06 PM Thanks Chrisgl. The idea of the lover replacing the red bush with willow to show abandonment makes sense. Willows are often associated with sorrow or death. Better yet, a weeping willow. Do the British Isles have crepe myrtle? I think of it when I hear this song. Here's an image: hope this works |
Subject: RE: Help: Please Identify This Song-Red Rosy Bush From: Steve Gardham Date: 19 Aug 21 - 11:54 AM Precisely, Chris And this song is British and can be traced back to the seventeenth century at least. See my recent article on its evolution on Mustrad, The Seeds of Thyme. Someone should write an appendix to the article mapping out all of the other places the stanzas have spread to, as in this case. |
Subject: RE: Help: Please Identify This Song-Red Rosy Bush From: chrisgl Date: 18 Aug 21 - 02:55 PM Not to muddy the waters but I have just come across this version of "Let No Man Steal Your Thyme" Look at the last two verses Come all you lads and lasses gay, That flourish in your prime, prime, Beware, beware, keep your garden clear, And let no man steal your thyme, thyme, Let no man steal your thyme. For when your thyme is past and gone He'll care no more for you, you. And every place that your thyme was waste Shall all spread o'er with rue, rue, Shall all spread o'er with rue. The gardener's son, being standing by, Three flowers he gave to me, me. The pink, the blue and the violet too And the red, red rosy tree, tree, And the red, red rosy tree. Now I'll pull off that red rose cup And plant a willow tree, tree, That all the world may plainly see How my love slighted me, me How my love slighted me. Unknown Singer (Patrick Green of Ballinalee, Co. Longford Here he is singing it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUTK--Xyp9g chris :-) |
Subject: RE: Help: Please Identify This Song-Red Rosy Bush From: leeneia Date: 29 Apr 20 - 11:29 AM I am more convinced than ever that it's good silver ring. But either word works. |
Subject: RE: Help: Please Identify This Song-Red Rosy Bush From: BrooklynJay Date: 27 Apr 20 - 01:33 PM Check out the other YouTube link I posted above. It is a different recording by Niles, and (IMO) the words are easier to make out. The second line is definitely "mournful song". And I stand by my opinion that it is "little silver ring". It's always helpful to have another recording of the same song, by the same artist, to compare. Listen to both of them. You may agree with me (or you may not). Jay |
Subject: RE: Help: Please Identify This Song-Red Rosy Bush From: leeneia Date: 26 Apr 20 - 11:18 PM I hear it as "good silver ring." I recall people using the phrase "good jewelry" to mean fine and expensive. I think the second line is "the mournful song you sing." Over here we have a bird named the mourning dove, so the word mournful isn't that unexpected. |
Subject: RE: Help: Please Identify This Song-Red Rosy Bush From: BrooklynJay Date: 26 Apr 20 - 06:05 PM In another recording by Niles on YouTube here it definitely sounds to me like he's saying "little silver ring". Jay |
Subject: RE: Help: Please Identify This Song-Red Rosy Bush From: GUEST,Starship Date: 26 Apr 20 - 01:11 PM Sounds like he's saying 'wore m'Iza's silver ring. (My Iza's.) It's a tough one. |
Subject: Lyr Add: Turtle Dove (John Jacob Niles) From: cnd Date: 26 Apr 20 - 12:09 PM Leenia, here's what I heard from the YouTube video linked by Guest_M on 28 Dec 16. Turtle dove, turtle dove, oh my little turtle dove The one whose song you sing Reminds my heart of that pretty, pretty girl Who wore my love's* silver ring Who wore my love's* silver ring I'll plant me a red and a rosy bush I'll plant me a weep' willow tree To prove to all who come this way That she has forsaken me That she has forsaken me When I was young and I was gay I loved her long and well But the sorrow this loving brought No human tongue can tell No human tongue can tell Oh, sing, yon lonesome little turtle dove He swings on yonder vine Lamenting for his own true love As I do mourn for mine As I do mourn for mine Oh hush you lest you break my heart For no more will I cry Ten thousand loves have parted Then why not you and I Then why not you and I *I have doubts that he says "love's silver ring" -- the verse sounds more like "blue silver" or "luve silver" or "lusilver" but "love" makes more sense than any of those to me |
Subject: RE: Help: Please Identify This Song-Red Rosy Bush From: leeneia Date: 26 Apr 20 - 11:24 AM Thanks for the info, Guest and Guest M. I thought I'd try to get the right lyrics from that video, but I give up. Sometimes the words are completely unintelligible. And the melody - hard to believe that a simple country person created that. I found a tune on ABCnotation.com that seems related, and it's free of the copyright problems that I find with Niles' things. I've made a MIDI of it and will transpose it down. (The highest note is the A above the staff. What!?) |
Subject: RE: Help: Please Identify This Song-Red Rosy Bush From: GUEST Date: 24 Apr 20 - 05:42 PM Hii !!! The song is turtle dove by John Jacob niles !!! |
Subject: RE: Help: Please Identify This Song-Red Rosy Bush From: GUEST,Guest_M Date: 28 Dec 16 - 05:08 PM John Jacob Niles recorded a song called "The Turtle Dove" that contained these lyrics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o87otpnlGmQ |
Subject: RE: Help: Please Identify This Song-Red Rosy Bush From: Stringsinger Date: 12 Jan 13 - 09:15 PM Jerry Goldsmith's daughter Ellen is a folklore student. She plays the autoharp. I played autoharp on the very first episodes of the Waltons, also the pilot, The Homecoming (A Christmas special). She played on the series later. Jerry would have been familiar with folk song material. He could have easily put together a song. |
Subject: RE: Help: Please Identify This Song-Red Rosy Bush From: Dave Hanson Date: 12 Jan 13 - 12:32 PM You waited 10 years to tell us that ? Dave H |
Subject: RE: Help: Please Identify This Song-Red Rosy Bush From: GUEST Date: 12 Jan 13 - 12:23 PM I remember it well from "The Love Story" episode 17 season 1 of the Waltons--Richard Thomas (John Boy) sang it with the dulcimer to Sian Barbara Allen (Jenny) his first love. It was very poignant. She was in the Thanksgiving episode as well. |
Subject: RE: Help: Please Identify This Song-Red Rosy Bush From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 20 Apr 03 - 11:53 PM http://www.the-waltons.com/season1.html#The_Love_Story It appears to have been written by Jerry Goldsmith
http://us.imdb.com/Credits?0068149 Other music credits for the first season are given to:
Sincerely, |
Subject: Red Rosy Bush? From: pyewacket Date: 20 Apr 03 - 02:44 AM My thanks to all who contributed their generous efforts in helping me to discover the origin of my song search and some additional verses. I cannot decide whether to title it "Red Rosy Bush" or as I have always thought of it, "Forsaken." Good night, Mary Ellen! |
Subject: RE: Help: Please Identify This Song-Red Rosy Bush From: Allan C. Date: 19 Apr 03 - 10:57 PM Ah...clear evidence of the folk process! P.S. to LR: Lots of people have released "Lonesome Road" over the years. In the '60's Duane Eddy had an innovative instrumental version and Don Gibson had a nice one just a bit earlier. Jim Neighbors even sang it on "The Andy Griffith Show". |
Subject: RE: Help: Please Identify This Song-Red Rosy Bush From: Little Robyn Date: 19 Apr 03 - 08:42 PM The second verse of Allan C's version has words from "Lonesome road" or "Long Lonesome Road". Both are in the DT but slightly different from the one I remember in the early 60s. I just can't remember who the singer was then. |
Subject: RE: Help: Please Identify This Song-Red Rosy Bush From: Joe Offer Date: 19 Apr 03 - 08:34 PM Bless you, Masato. Good night, John-Boy. -Joe Offer- |
Subject: RE: Help: Please Identify This Song-Red Rosy Bush From: masato sakurai Date: 19 Apr 03 - 08:21 PM Google searches for plant me a "red and rosy bush" and hush "lest you break my heart" led me to the same three Waltons sites, where the origins (title and other info) are not identified. The song seems to be found in The Waltons only, at least on the web. The lyrics below are copied from The Walton's Mountain Songs, Poetry, and Prayers. I plant me a red and rosy bush,~Masato |
Subject: RE: Help: Please Identify This Song-Red Rosy Bush From: Joe Offer Date: 19 Apr 03 - 06:08 PM I crosslinked the Red Rosy Bush songs, but talke a look at Malcolm's post in the Little Turtle Dove thread. If it confuses Malcolm, it HAS to be confusing! The "Red Rosey Bush recorded by Belafonte and Jo Stafford is quite different from this "Rosy Bush." I don't think I'm going to attempt cross-links on "turtle doves" yet. -Joe Offer- |
Subject: RE: Help: Please Identify This Song From: pyewacket Date: 18 Apr 03 - 06:16 PM Dear Allan; Thanks so much for your help! I suspect though that "It's hard To Love" is not the same song as I do know the melody of our song in question and it just doesn't seem to fit. This is also the case with "The Red Rosy Bush" in the DT. I don't know if it would help anyone but I heard the song sung on an episode of "the Waltons" many years ago. pyewacket |
Subject: Lyr Add: IT'S HARD TO LOVE From: Allan C. Date: 18 Apr 03 - 04:25 PM IT'S HARD TO LOVE It's hard to love when you can't be loved, It's hard to love in vain. But the worst of love is a broken heart, Did you ever feel the pain? Did you ever feel the pain, dear one? Did you ever feel the pain? The worst of love is a broken heart, Did you ever feel the pain? Look up, look down this lonesome road, Hang down your head and cry. The best of friends must part sometime, So why not you and I? Why not you and I dear one? Why not you and I? The best of friends must part sometime, So why not you and I? ____________ As sung by Eunice Yeatts MacAlexander at her home in Meadows of Dan, Patrick County, Virginia August 22 1980 (Notes as found on CD titled, "Far In the Mountains" Vol I & II -- available through CAMSCO ___________ The tune for this is somewhat different from that of "The Red Rosy Bush". |
Subject: RE: Help: Please Identify This Song From: Allan C. Date: 18 Apr 03 - 04:07 PM See also The Red Rosy Bush in the DT. |
Subject: RE: Help: Please Identify This Song From: Allan C. Date: 18 Apr 03 - 04:03 PM A recording I have of a very similarly versed song is called "It' Hard To Love" and was collected in the Appalachians. The notes I have say that it is common to use any number of "floating verses" to fit the lovely tune. I'll post the lyrics I have in a separate posting. |
Subject: Help: Please Identify This Song From: pyewacket Date: 18 Apr 03 - 03:06 PM Can anyone identify this song and perhaps supply additional lyrics? Thank you. I'll plant me a red and rosy bush I'll plant me a green willow tree To prove to all, who come this away That you have forsaken me That you have forsaken me. O hush lest you, break my heart For no one will I cry Ten thousand lovers, have already parted So why not you and I So why not you and I. AT |
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