England/Ireland in August: advice?

Subject: RE: England/Ireland in August: advice?
From: GUEST,Peter from Essex
Date: 21 May 03 - 02:57 PM

If you plan on any sessions or clubs do check explicitly check that they are open. Between family holidays and the big festivals quite a lot give up in August.

Subject: RE: England/Ireland in August: advice?
From: Marje
Date: 21 May 03 - 12:55 PM

Very wise to fly with Ryanair rather than drive and take a ferry.

But about the repertoire (please don't be offended if I take you at your word and respond to your suggestion) I'm not sure what "hokey" means but Black Velvet Band and Wild Rover are a bit -well, we'd say "naff". Many people get quite embarrassed if you ask for them or sing them. Last Thing on My Mind is a bit better, but still very over-performed. I'm sure you have less well-known American things that people over here would appreciate - it can be a mistake to try to play what you hope will be the local "standards" and get it wrong. Early Dylan would be better, if you find the right sort of club (some welcome thais sort tof thing, while others are more traditional). Lakes of Pontchartrain would be welcome most places, I think.

Dont' get me wrong - most clubs like to see new people, and get quite excited when someone from overseas arrives (doesn't often happen in Norfolk!), so you'll be very welcome. Just try to offer some of your own favourites that they're not so likely to have heard much, and that should go down well. Or if you find a "session" where everyone just jams together, that will give you a chance to learn some of the stuff we play over here.

Have a great time!

Subject: RE: England/Ireland in August: advice?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 21 May 03 - 11:32 AM

refresh/revise

Thanks to all for the input. I am bringing this back up after about two weeks, and will probably do so again periodically until departure on August 1.

Some recent developments:

We will NOT be driving across England and Wales to the Holyhead-Dublin ferry. Apparently, it'll be amazingly inexpensive to fly Ryanair from London-Stansted to any of several airports in Ireland (probably Dublin, but maybe Knock or Galway, closer to our relatives in Mayo) and then rent a car upon arrival. This will eliminate the prospect of observing long stretches of British highway landscape through car windows, essentially saving us a whole day of our too-brief visit.

This means that our experience of England will be limited to London and the immediate area of my brother's residence (which is not in Cambridgeshire, as previously reported, but a little further north, at Methwold, Norfolk, near the "larger" (?) towns of Ely and Thetford). Paul and wife Barb both teach at American-style schools for US military dependents at RAF bases, Barb at the high school at Lakenheath, Paul at middle school (jr. high) at Feltwell.

My brother Paul was a longtime professional drummer (over a decade without a day job!) who has just recently taken up the guitar. I'm a former semi-pro guitarist/vocalist (i.e., busker/scuffler) trying to maintain my deteriorating skills despite arthritic fingers and the various demands of family and work. We're (somewhat giddily) looking forward to jamming together, working out a couple of tunes, and perhaps imposing ourselves at one or more unsuspecting pub sessions in East Anglia and/or the West of Ireland.

As we were talking each other into this plan thorough an exchange of emails, I mentioned that, while I had no plans to bring my precious D-18 Martin along for the trip, I would certainly have my fingerpicks in my pocket so I'd be ready to play his instrument or any other we might borrow. His reply:

******

I [too] had been entertaining fantasies about playing together, but never would have suggested that you drag your guitar along. It's a real pain in airports and very risky, damage-wise.

BUT... having agreed to get a 3/4-sized acoustic for [7-year-old son] Gabriel, I marched him into the store 2 weeks ago and emerged with said kiddie axe along with a Fender Squire and Roland mini amp for me! The Squire is a beginner-range imitation Strat. I love it to death. No wonder every yutz with a pair of hands wants to play these things; it's easier'n shit.

I justified the purchase by acquiring a paid position sponsoring an after-school Guitar Club. So far it's only 7-8 kids, most such rookies that I can show them a lot. Surprisingly, 4 of them have electrics more expensive than mine. They asked me to play the other day and were amazed by my ability to do a really shitty Johnny B. Goode.   So I'm in good shape for that gig.

So, we could at least show up in places with my Yamaha, so people would know we weren't just air guitarists. If you work up some appropriate traditional stuff, I could at least back you up at a Tom Fogarty level.

This is so great! I'm stoked, dude.   There's a mighty wind a-blowin'!

********

By the way, I referred Paul to the recent Mudcat thread on teaching a guitar workshop, which he enjoyed and found helpful for his new faculty-moderator job.

So: which two or three tunes should we work up? Neither of us is especially knowledgeable about truly traditional Irish or British folk music, but we can of course learn. Some alternatives I've been considering:

Most Trad: My first inclination, probably too ambitious, was to work up "The Humours of Whiskey" (which would demand *heavy* memorization of lots of lyrics) and, because of its New Orleans connection, "Lakes of Pontchartrain" (which would best be done in an open-tuning arrangement that would demand serious effort, probably more than I would/could devote before departure).

Pop-Folk Irish: It wouldn't be too hard for the two of us to a creditable job with, say, "Wild Rover," "Black Velvet Band," etc. Too hokey? I'd like to think we'd be cut a bit of slack, since we're just a couple of dumb Yanks.

60s Songwriter Folk: All of y'all over there love Tom Paxton, don't you? "Last Thing On My Mind" is one of the first tunes I ever played on the guitar, and one that I've continued to do pretty much ever since. Then there's Ewan McColl's (?) "Dirty Old Town," popular at American Irish Pubs (sung by kids who think it's a Pogues tune), and we both know plenty of early/folky Bob Dylan and suchlike.

By the way, in response to some early responses: Paul is buying the Pete McCarthy book, so I don't have to. Also, he's been to Doolin before & knows the pubs, and will probably "guide" us there when the time is right.

Thanks to all, hope you find this amusing whether or not you have a response, over and out for now.

Tom Henehan

Subject: RE: England/Ireland in August: advice?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 07 May 03 - 01:15 PM

Quick thanks to the last two GUESTS, to whom I can't send a PM.

Pete, *love* the story of the two pubs; I'll try to locate the book. (Pete MacCarthy might not be you, now, huh?)

Rob, nice day-by-day guide. I'll do a Google on Folk Orbit.

I have a limited time -- less than two weeks to visit two countries -- and the itinerary is built around homes of two family members, so I'll have limited opportunities to stray very far afield. I'm getting enough feedback for this trip and the next as well (hoping there *is* a next trip).

Subject: RE: England/Ireland in August: advice?
From: GUEST,rob wright
Date: 07 May 03 - 12:01 PM

you must visit Chester, it has a cathedral,a lovely river ,,roman ampitheatre, roman walls around the city centre, a race course, Oh yes and music of every kind everynight of the week in one place or other. Or at least within 15 minutes drive. The best are...
Monday The Prospect Club near Stanlow
Tuesday The Ship Victory pub in Chester or Alexanders Jazz bar
Wednesday The Bridge Inn Port Sunlight Village
Sunday The Cross Keys pub on lower bridge Street Chester.

For lots more info on whats on in the area visit the site called FOLK ORBIT ,cant remember the address but should come up on a search easy enough.
On the Other hand you could go to Scotland ,Perthshire in particular.
look on perthshire tourist site for info
Best are The Aberfeldy Club at The Palace Hotel on a Thursday or The Taybank hotel in Dunkeld,haunting ground of Douggie Macclean, any day or night or Glenfarg on a Monday.

Subject: RE: England/Ireland in August: advice?
From: GUEST,Pete
Date: 06 May 03 - 11:49 AM

MacCarthy's Bar by Pete MacCarthy is a pretty good up to date guide on what to expect in Ireland

He tells some good stories that dispel the myths

He tells the story where there is a touristy plastic pub with fake everything which the locals use & the locals pub where all the tourists go - both groups go to the wrong one to avoid each other

Some spellings may be wrong - not sure if book available in states

Subject: RE: England/Ireland in August: advice?
From: Beardy
Date: 06 May 03 - 11:23 AM

http://www.frootsmag.com/content/festivals/

Hope this may help you. A detailed list of festivals listed by month.
NB. Cambridge festival 31/7-3/8 sells out quite early.

Subject: RE: England/Ireland in August: advice?
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 05 May 03 - 01:35 PM

Sorry PoppaGator I forgot the Internet Weblink of Coleman Country

http://www.colemanirishmusic.com

Subject: RE: England/Ireland in August: advice?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 05 May 03 - 01:23 PM

Sorefingers: Thanks for so much input. I've heard of Matt Malloy's pub, and even seen it on TV. Not sure where to locate "Coleman country," but I'll be consulting my maps and guidebooks.

Galway City -- yes, I am very much looking forward to visiting there.

Very nice explanation of HMG's positioning of Lakenheath. Not surprising -- here in the States, we put most of our own military bases (certainly the largest ones) in fairly isolated locales.

I'm sure I can count on my brother and sis-in-law to show us around the immediate area, guide us to the best local eats and drinks, etc. They are quite unattached to the military bases where they work and their somewhat inbred communities, and have always lived "off-base" in the countries where they've been stationed. They've been doing this for a while, and have become pretty much "citizens of the world." It seems that most of their civilian co-workers are at least somewhat less internationalist than they are, and of course the military families whose kids they teach are even less inclined to enter and to understand the "foreign" countries surrounding their workplaces.

In other words, I think I can assume that Paul and Barb know about those "pointy hat people" and other local phenomena worthy of our attention.

Despite your concertina-related warning, I think that Clare "the Singing County" will remain on our itinerary. If for no other reason, it's pretty much on the way from Mayo through Galway to Shannon Airport, my point of departure -- innit?

Subject: RE: England/Ireland in August: advice?
From: Crane Driver
Date: 05 May 03 - 01:16 PM

Are you going through North or South Wales en route to Ireland? In South Wales, the Mumbles Maritime Festival is on at Swansea (ferry link Swansea to Cork, BTW) weekend of 9-10 August. Many top performers of shanty/ maritime folk, all performances free, very nice setting (if it doesn't rain) - several mudcatters present.

I'm sure you'll have a great time wherever you go.

Andrew

Subject: RE: England/Ireland in August: advice?
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 05 May 03 - 12:52 PM

Dear PopaGator your trip to Co Mayo/Roscommon will be all the merrier once you know that from there it is a short drive to Coleman country, the very heart of Irish Fiddling.

Matt Molloy (Chieftans), owns and runs a great little Pub out on the coast not too far from there as well... It is a place where you'd likely meet famous Irish Trad Recording Stars just hanging around holding up the roof which is about to fall in for the lack of Thatching!

They say that Clare tay is not too bad if you can already play the Concertina, however I would need more than that to be driving over there on the mere chance of hearing somebody - well anybody - play a few tunes. Be forewarned and make certain there IS a session/pubconcert before you leave.

For a great 'session' and time - esp in August - Galway City is hard to equal; now that I would recommend to you.

Norfolk UK is a little sleepy as I best recall, not much of anything and a whole bunch of nuttin- compares well to Hogwell Ark or Windless Holler Tenn, but if you can find the time to wander off to Birmingham or Manchester then you'd be dizzy with choices of things to do and places to go.

Think about Lakenheath this way, HMG (Her Britanic Majesty's Government) could not find a more inoffensive place to locate a horde of Yankee hooligans and their noisy toys, ie in the backwoods, out in the back, way way out there... lol. On the bright side there is a strong native Fiddling tradition in Norfolk, check out them Barges and 'Pointy Hat' poeple standing on street corners saying Elizabethan things such as 'Nonnnie nonnnie nou': also thinking on how one could usefully waste one's time at Suffolk, be sure not to miss the Newspaper clad 'Fish an Chips', eaten by hand from the paper and later washed down with a gallon of excellent English Ale, or if you must go 'native' use the local Scrumpy instead but do have a comfortable place to fall over when it's effect lays you down for the night.

Subject: RE: England/Ireland in August: advice?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 05 May 03 - 12:31 PM

gnomad:

I'm sure my brother would have reassured me about the 18-year legal ago, but thanks anyway for your quick reply.

Drinking age in Louisiana changed from 18 to 21 a few years ago -- it was necessary in order to keep receiving Federal highway money. States have the freedom to make their own laws independent of the US federal gov't in many areas, including this one, but the feds wanted to "discourage" under-21 drinking (to prevent drunk-driving accidents & deaths) and control enough road-buiding money to strongly influence the states.

My older kids had the experience of drinking legally on their 18th birthdays and afterwards (for two years in one case, for just a couple of months in the other), and then becoming illegal until age 21. Go figure...

dick:

Thanks to you too; I'm off to look up Whitby Week

Subject: RE: England/Ireland in August: advice?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 05 May 03 - 11:50 AM

For traditional music, I don't think Whitby Week can be topped.I loved it both times I was able to get over.

Subject: RE: England/Ireland in August: advice?
From: gnomad
Date: 05 May 03 - 11:44 AM

Cannot offer guidance re Norfolk area, but rest assured being 20 is no problem in a UK pub. Legal minimum to drink here is only 18.

Hope you have a great trip.

Subject: RE: England/Ireland in August: advice?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 05 May 03 - 11:27 AM

I'm refreshing this on a Monday morning; will probably do so periodically either until I leave on the trip, or have gotten more information then I can use.

My brother sends more info on his actual location; I've only known that he and Barb live somewhere between Lakenheath, where she works at the on-base American high school, and another smaller RAF/NATO base where Paul teaches middle school (junior high). This is their second hitch at Lekenheat; last time around they lived at Bury St. Edmonds, but this time, Paul tells me:

"We actually live just north of the border of Suffolk, in Norfolk."

An additional factor: looks like my wife and I will be accompanied by our youngest son, who won't turn 21 until February. Will his underagedness prevent or complicate our visiting pubs? He can usually avoid questioning about his age in relaxed, low-security settings, since he's about 6'1" tall. On the other hand, he's skinny and baby-faced, with extra-wispy facial hair, so on close inspection he doesn't really look any older than he is.

Thanks to all who have contributed advice; I've sent personal-message thank-yous to the three members who responded, but couldn't do that for "guest." So: Dave, thanks to you as well.

Subject: RE: England/Ireland in August: advice?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 05:00 PM

A couple of small pub instumental sessions; LION INN, Little Glemham
alternate Wednesdays (Suffolk) & ROYAL STANDARD, Mill Road, Cambridge,every Thursday (trad Irish). If you're about on 30th August there's the Tradional Music Day in Stowmarket Suffolk.
   Have a great trip, Dave Mandoman.

Subject: RE: England/Ireland in August: advice?
From: JudeL
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 04:29 PM

Martin Dent's site appears to list quite a few clubs in Cambridgeshire here

Subject: RE: England/Ireland in August: advice?
From: JudeL
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 04:20 PM

Try looking in Mr Red's Website

or another online place to look is the folklist page

Subject: RE: England/Ireland in August: advice?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 03:58 PM

Hull might be a bit far from Cambridgeshire. I think that you might be best off checking out what festivals are happening around you. Whenever there's a folk festival, there'll be pubs full of people making music. You don't have to have a festival ticket, or even go to any concerts. Just find out where the sessions and singarounds are, and look for the street displays (dance, mumming etc).

No doubt some Cambridgeshire people'll be along with some more useful information. Have a lovely time!

Subject: RE: England/Ireland in August: advice?
From: jimmyt
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 12:31 PM

You will get LOTS of response for England from our friends in Hull and all over ENgland with smashing recommendations on music pubs and venues, I wiould strongly recommend County Clare in Ireland, Ennis and Doolin are the main music towns. Doolin is only a small village right on the coast with three pubs, live music somewhere all the time morning to night.Gus Occonnor's is my favorite, but all are within a mile. Hope you have a grand time!

Subject: England/Ireland in August: advice?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 12:05 PM

My wife Peggy and I are planning a trip from the US to the British Isles for the first two full weeks of August this year. I'm interested in any info anyone cares to pass along regarding musical events, pubs not to be missed, etc., that won't take us too far off our itinerary.

We will fly into London on Monday 8/4, to be met by my brother and sister-in-law, who both work as schoolteachers for American miltary dependants (Army brats) at Lakenheath RAF base, which is (more-or-less) in the area of Cambridge. We'll stay at their house for several days and sightsee the immediate area before driving west to Ireland. No exact date has been set for our departure -- we are free to be flexible -- but it will probably occur on or before Sunday the 10th.

We'll drive across the Midlands and Wales and take the ferry to Dublin, where we'll spend a *little* time (no more than one overnight stay) before proceeding west to the family's ancestral home in Ballyhaunis, County Mayo (near the Roscommon border).

After visiting for a day or two, we'll be free to tour around the west until Sunday 8/16, when I'll be dropped off at Shannon for a return flight to the states, and back to work Monday morning. (Peggy is self-employed and able to take a longer vacation; she'll stay with the kinfolk for the drive back to England and will have time to check out London before flying home.)

We are certainly interested in hearing authentic traditional music, both in England and Ireland, but we are by no means purists or afficionados, and would also be glad to learn of *any* worthwhile local music, including the most contemporary.

No three-day campout festivals, thank you, nor high-priced concerts; we're working within time and budget constraints. However, if we can avoid spending an evening in a quiet nondescript pub when, unbeknownst to us, another nearby establishment is hosting a worthwhile musical evening -- well, that's the kind of inside information I hope some Mudcatter(s) out there can provide.

Here's a summary of our tentative plans:
One week or less, starting 8/4: Cambridgeshire
One day, between 8/8 & 8/12: Dublin
Final leg of trip, through 8/17: Mayo, Galway & points SW

Thanks,
Tom Henehan