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BS: The Mother of all BS threads

Amos 18 Jul 05 - 08:38 PM
Rapparee 18 Jul 05 - 08:50 PM
Rapparee 18 Jul 05 - 09:29 PM
Rapparee 18 Jul 05 - 09:31 PM
Rapparee 18 Jul 05 - 09:33 PM
Amos 18 Jul 05 - 10:56 PM
Amos 18 Jul 05 - 11:03 PM
Rapparee 19 Jul 05 - 09:09 AM
GUEST,Bee-dubya-ell 19 Jul 05 - 09:48 AM
Amos 19 Jul 05 - 09:54 AM
Acme 19 Jul 05 - 10:29 AM
Rapparee 19 Jul 05 - 11:39 AM
GUEST,Bee-dubya-ell 19 Jul 05 - 06:17 PM
Amos 19 Jul 05 - 10:50 PM
Rapparee 19 Jul 05 - 11:13 PM
GUEST,Gluon 20 Jul 05 - 12:47 AM
GUEST,MMario 20 Jul 05 - 08:44 AM
Bunnahabhain 20 Jul 05 - 10:34 AM
Rapparee 20 Jul 05 - 11:26 AM
Acme 20 Jul 05 - 11:48 AM
Rapparee 20 Jul 05 - 01:36 PM
GUEST,Bee-dubya-ell 20 Jul 05 - 01:45 PM
Amos 20 Jul 05 - 01:56 PM
GUEST,MMario 20 Jul 05 - 04:29 PM
Rapparee 20 Jul 05 - 05:23 PM
Amos 20 Jul 05 - 08:35 PM
Amos 20 Jul 05 - 10:57 PM
GUEST 21 Jul 05 - 08:15 AM
GUEST,MMario 21 Jul 05 - 10:29 AM
GUEST,devout MOAB-ite 21 Jul 05 - 11:31 AM
GUEST,Stilly River Sage 21 Jul 05 - 11:36 AM
GUEST,the devout MOAB-ite 21 Jul 05 - 11:41 AM
Amos 21 Jul 05 - 11:49 AM
GUEST,MMario 21 Jul 05 - 01:45 PM
Amos 21 Jul 05 - 06:41 PM
GUEST,The Invisible MOABite 22 Jul 05 - 12:10 AM
Amos 22 Jul 05 - 11:47 AM
Bunnahabhain 22 Jul 05 - 02:07 PM
MMario 22 Jul 05 - 02:14 PM
Amos 22 Jul 05 - 02:58 PM
Acme 22 Jul 05 - 03:57 PM
GUEST 22 Jul 05 - 05:39 PM
GUEST,freds 22 Jul 05 - 07:25 PM
GUEST,TIM 22 Jul 05 - 08:15 PM
Acme 23 Jul 05 - 12:50 AM
Amos 23 Jul 05 - 02:22 AM
Amos 23 Jul 05 - 10:59 AM
GUEST,Rapaire 23 Jul 05 - 11:44 AM
rumanci 23 Jul 05 - 11:49 AM
GUEST,Rapaire 23 Jul 05 - 11:54 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 08:38 PM

BWL,

I greatly admir eyour confidence in the certainty of numbers. However, I submit that the whole question of the container within the thing contained, if we were to ever sovle that mystery, would ALSO illuminate the question of why three is always 3, and why the five-ness of five APPEARS to be so replicable...not to mention more complex propositions lie 8,888 or the square root of pi (1.772453851, more or less).

If you can explain in-ness and out-ness and break the death-grip of "within" and "without" on our beleaguered psyches, I am sure you can also cut through the Gordian knot of the five-ness of 5 and so on.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 08:50 PM

Oh, for goodness sakes. The container contains itself.   (And I'd really, really like to have one, too.)


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 09:29 PM

One. Uno.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 09:31 PM

Two. Dos.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 09:33 PM

Three. Tres. 8500.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 10:56 PM

My bill for setting you up for that will be in the mail, Rapaire!! And let me add that any person hypnotized into the belief that he is a dog, for example, can be made to bark as often as needed; reciting numbers simply reiterates the siren song of their hypnotic spell; it does not break the trance or penetrate their mystery.

Similarly asserting containment within the thing contained does not de-code the trance you are under, with your within-ness and withoutness.

Truly it is said: that which is within Tupperware, is not Tupperware. That which is outside of Tupperware, is not Tupperware. He who believeth in the difference between within and without is destined to wander forever from Tupperware to Tupperware.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 11:03 PM

This, too, could be important:

From www.space.com:

The biggest starquake ever recorded resulted in oscillations in the X-ray emission from the shaking neutron star. Astronomers hope these oscillations will crack the mystery of what neutron stars are made of.

On December 27, 2004, several satellites and telescopes from around the world detected an explosion on the surface of SGR 1806-20, a neutron star 50,000 light years away. The resulting flash of energy -- which lasted only a tenth of a second -- released more energy than the Sun emits in 150,000 years.

Combing through data from NASA's Rossi X-ray Timing Explorer, a team of astronomers has identified oscillations in the X-ray emission of SGR 1806-20. These rapid fluctuations, which began 3 minutes after the starquake and trailed off 10 minutes later, had a frequency of 94.5 Hertz.

"This is near the frequency of the 22nd key of a piano, F sharp," said Tomaso Belloni from Italy's National Institute of Astrophysics.

Just as geologists study the Earth's interior using seismic waves after an earthquake, astrophysicists can use the X-ray oscillations to probe this distant neutron star.

"This explosion was akin to hitting the neutron star with a gigantic hammer, causing it to ring like a bell," said Richard Rothschild from the University of California, San Diego. "Now the question is: what does the frequency of the neutron star's oscillations -- the tone produced by the ringing bell -- mean?"

Neutron stars form when a massive star runs out of nuclear fuel to burn. Under the weight of its own gravity, the star's core collapses into either a dense neutron star, or an even denser black hole.

The particles inside a neutron star are so tightly packed together that electrons are forced into the atomic nucleus, where they fuse with protons to make neutrons. This pure neutron material is so dense that a spoonful of it would weigh over a billion tons on Earth.

A neutron star with the mass of our Sun would only be 10 miles wide.

Neutron star "geology" is thought to involve a hard outer crust floating over a superfluid core. But the exact details are not known -- like whether the core contains exotic particles called strange quarks. Starquakes may provide the answer.




Now it's a musical thread. But seriously, folks...how would any of us have known that hitting the F# key on a piano would start a resonance with a remote neutron star? I always knew F# on mah 12-string was hard to play, but NOW I think I know why. It was a major karmic flinch, caused by a deep-seated unwillingness to resonate with neutron stars and contact any of those "strange" quarks.

Not to say queer, or nothin'....


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Jul 05 - 09:09 AM

I dunno about playing no F# on a stringed instrument, and don't know why, when the brasses are around, anyone would want to play strings anyway. But it's really easy on a trumpet -- between E and G, and hold down the second valve. It's pretty simple on a piano, too, even though it's a stringed instrument -- just press the key.

I think I'll de-tune my trumpet a bit and play that neutron star note really, really loud and see what happens. Kick up a little excitement, mebbe.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: GUEST,Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 19 Jul 05 - 09:48 AM

Yes, but what the physicists don't realize is that the F# note is not the tonic. It's the third. We're patiently awaiting emissions from other neutron stars in the frequency ranges of "D" and "A". When they arrive it will mean that the Universe has retuned itself to Open D. This works out quite well for playing Klein-bottleneck guitar.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 19 Jul 05 - 09:54 AM

I would you know what it sounded like?


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 19 Jul 05 - 10:29 AM

My piano is so old that if it were tuned to "modern" specs many of the strings would break. So to find this star frequency at my house you'd have to hit A-flat. (I can't find an html symbol for flat, darnit!) My piano is tuned a whole note low. One of these days I have to restore it. (I could do G#, but that's too easy)


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Jul 05 - 11:39 AM

Oh, fer...I don't understand why everyone doesn't simply play a trumpet!! Amos, you ask Barky what the best instrument is! She'll tell you!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: GUEST,Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 19 Jul 05 - 06:17 PM

I have no idea what a Klein-bottleneck guitar sounds like, since true Klein bottles can only exist in four dimensions. Possibly something akin to the sound of one hand clapping, only with a lot more vibrato?

Then again, it may sound like a trumpet. I hope not.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 19 Jul 05 - 10:50 PM

I dunno what good a thread like this would be if not for breaking with one damn tradition after another. So I'm a-gonna. The following is NOT BS.

The recent long series of intermittent collapses of the informational field called the Mudcat/MOAB has led me to realize the taste of mortality even in things that appear infinite, like this thread.

Now, me sainted mither taught me once, when a favorite poet friend of hers died unexpectedly, to say what you had to say to those you love while you still could, as you never knew when they would vanish.

So in case I never get another chance, let me just say here for the record that I really love all of you MOABites, down to the bone; even the strange quark-dog Gluon. But especially those of you who have been hurdling the hurdles and trying the tribulations of mortal day to day life and STILL finding time to contribute to the zany para-meta-trans-multi-personal nihilistic pantheistic terminally regenerative Megasolipsism that is this MOAB thing. You fill up my senses, one and all of yez. Thanks!!

Just in case.

Now, back to our regularly dissipative programming....

A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Jul 05 - 11:13 PM

Yeah, well, okay, that's easy for YOU to say. Personally, I might be insulted, perhaps, maybe, if I could figger out what you said. Something about pan-handled overt ovoid transduckalation, I think. Or maybe it was something els. Anyway, that same to you, buddy!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: GUEST,Gluon
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 12:47 AM

QUARK!!! QUARK!!!

(Translation: Yes, I love you too, Amos. Now, could you move that leg a little to the right?)


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 08:44 AM

yes- Amos - we luvs you too; You are the wind beneath our breeches wings.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 10:34 AM

I have no idea what a Klein-bottleneck guitar sounds like, since true Klein bottles can only exist in four dimensions.

It clearly sounds like the great celestial bagpipes. The opening scale started the big bang, and the drones provide the cosmic background radiation. Now you know, whenever you see those pipers wandering off to tune up in a corner, they're actually starting pet universes, and not just the ones in their own heads....


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 11:26 AM

Klein bottles exist in three dimensions (unless you count Time) that we are familiar with. For all we know, Klein bottles might (and probably do) exist in multiple dimensions. A line, for example, is simply the connection between two points, unless you view a line as a succession of points. In either case it defines one dimension -- but it also exists in our three-dimensional world, just as a Mobius Strip or a Klein bottle or a rainbow or tesseract. But if you were to fall into a Klein bottle....


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 11:48 AM

Yeah.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 01:36 PM

But leave us not forget that while a Klein bottle has only one side, it still exists in three (or more) dimensions. Ditto a Mobius Strip.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: GUEST,Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 01:45 PM

Au contraire, mon Rapaire! The Acme Klein bottle website to which you yourself provided a link says:

A Klein Bottle is locally 2-dimensional ... every small patch follows the laws of 2-dimensional Euclidean geometry. In this sense, a Klein Bottle is a 2-dimensional manifold, and its inside is the same as its outside. But although it's a 2-D manifold, it can only exist in 4-dimensions!

Alas, our universe has only 3 spatial dimensions, so even Acme's dedicated engineers can't make a true Klein Bottle.

A photograph of a stapler is a 2-dimensional immersion of a 3-dimensional stapler. In the same way, our glass Klein Bottles are 3-D immersions of the 4-D Klein Bottle. Our Klein Bottle is a 3-dimensional photograph of a "true" Klein Bottle.

A Klein Bottle cannot be embedded in 3 dimensions, but you can immerse it in 3-D. (An immersion may have self-intersections; Embeddings have no self-intersections. Neither an embedding nor an immersion has folds or cusps.)

We represent a Klein Bottle in glass by stretching the neck of a bottle through its side and joining its end to a hole in the base. Except at the side-connection (the nexus), this properly shows the shape of a 4-D Klein Bottle. And except at the nexus, any small patch follows the laws of 2-dimensional Euclidean geometry.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 01:56 PM

This raises the imponderable question, what if you go up from a Klein bottle?

I mean, "up" along the axis that is not immersed when presented 3-Dimensionally.

I use up because it was the one direction that the people in dot and line world couldn't imagine in the Flatworld book.




A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 04:29 PM

"up" being a good description as the surface of a klien bottle presents a two dimensional geometry.

But disregarding directions - and answering the other question represented by what do you get when you go up from a klien bottle -

the progression is point, mobius strip, klien bottle, tesserect, ? ?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 05:23 PM

tesserect...MOAB. Jeez, I gotta teach you guys everything?

Now I gotta go to DC tomorrow (George and Laura -- he's back on the bottle and...well, you know, disinterested friend of the family and all). But I'll be checking in now and then, so take care of Mom, ya hear?

I'll be back late next Monday.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 08:35 PM

Rapaire is just being snotty because you type tesserect instead or tesseract, MM. Pay him no mind. Making jokes about being friends of George and Laura is to me like making bomb jokes in a security checkpoint waiting line. ALmost as funny!

A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 10:57 PM

In other news, perhaps this is what we need to keep Mom from falling low:

A group of Stanford University students is developing a vibrating ankle brace designed to assist elderly people in avoiding falls.

The "smart" brace is fitted with a tiny chip that continuously monitors the position of the wearer's ankle, CNN said. If the chip detects a roll greater than normal, it vibrates, thereby sending a signal to the wearer's brain that they must change the position of their foot or shift their balance in order to avoid a fall.



'Course, any device that tries to be a substitute for TLC is doomed to hiccup, right?


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 08:15 AM

Discovered in an ancient Sumarian tomb - translated version velow:


Hail MOAB full of bull. Blessed art thou and Blessed is the fruit of thy bowels, o'erfull.

Wholly MOAB Mother of shite, rise for us sinners now, and any time day or night.


the verse, evidently a prayer of sorts, is attributed to one Brother Fewmet of the Copralithic Order of the Greater Bowel.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 10:29 AM

The tesseract is composed of 8 cubes with 3 to an edge, and therefore has 16 vertices, 32 edges, 24 squares, and 8 cubes


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: GUEST,devout MOAB-ite
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 11:31 AM

"They" are insinuating that MOM is causing the 'Cat to crash!

Please, Mom, it's not true is it?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: GUEST,Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 11:36 AM

Who are "they," dearest? Tell us the whole story so we can give you the appropriate reassuring answer.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: GUEST,the devout MOAB-ite
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 11:41 AM

see here and here

I'm a-skeered!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 11:49 AM

Quite so!! Hail the Octochoron!

The tesseract is also used as a network topology. Each edge of a tesseract is of the same length. When using tesseracts as the basis for a network topology to link multiple processors in parallel computing, the distance between two nodes is at most 4 and there are many different paths to allow weight balancing.

Isn't that just sweet an' kinda SPAYtial?


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 01:45 PM

and here I thought an octochoron was one of them clay 'sweet potata' thingies that whistle when you blow into them, like Cleigh O'Possum.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 06:41 PM

No, man. Them's assholes.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: GUEST,The Invisible MOABite
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 12:10 AM

I am the Invisible MOABite. I have been here for more than two years but I have not been seen by any of my Fellow MOABites. I have decided to type something here with an indelible font. This will be proof to you that I do exist. I have passed gas a few times in the hope that some of you would notice and realize that there was an invisible MOABite in your presence, but none noticed.
In the event that this attempt fails, I will pull out all stops. I will sit my naked ass in some wet paint and will then press my painted ass to my scanner and will produce a nice jpeg of my ass, which I will then e-mail to those of you who have been wise enough to publish your e-mail addresses on Mudcat. Thus, you will see and know that I am!

TIM


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 11:47 AM

See my previous post.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 02:07 PM

Thus, you will see and know that I am!

TIM


You are Tim the enchanter. You have a straggley grey beard, a staff, and a dangerous lack of favourite colour.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: MMario
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 02:14 PM

I'd say Tim has a dangerous lack of any colour, let alone a favorite.

It's currently trying to rain outside - which oddly enough seems to have LOWERED the hunmidity and temperature - wish it would get it over with so that tomorrow can be nice and sunny and people will come by hordes to my ren-faire.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 02:58 PM

Buena suerte, compadre!!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 03:57 PM

The 'Cat seems to have speeded up. Something Max fixed seems to be working!

See, little one, you were worried about nothing.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 05:39 PM

I will be at your ren-faire, but you probably won't see me.

TIM


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: GUEST,freds
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 07:25 PM

We are looking for an invisible being. This entity is needed for DNA replication, and we have reason to believe that itshehe is somewhere near. If you can assist us in this we will be grateful.

Thank you very much indeed.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: GUEST,TIM
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 08:15 PM

freds,
I will help you anyway I can. By the way, a few moments ago, I didn't see an invisible man running by in a frenzy (in the general direction of away from you). Unfortunately, I am not a trained observer so I can't really say what he was/wasn't wearing. But the next time I don't see him, I will be sure to notice every detail.

TIM


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 12:50 AM

If they're invisible, you might as well put clothes on them, 'cause they're no good to us anyway. Practice recombination by mis-matching his sox.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 02:22 AM

At least that way, they won't be mistaken for invisible bonobos, or microscopic voles.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 10:59 AM

Gluon can detect them bonobos ad microscopic voles, dead nuts every time.

I was just about to suggest we invite one of each of them to join us.

Billy-Bob the Invisible Bonobo is easy to detect because he smells exactly like farts in an elevator. He is usually invisible, because he moves slightly faster than light itself and therefore is always pissing people off by not being where they see him. Most unsettling until you get used to it. But he's cute, when you can get him to holt still

Val the Microscopic Vole is more retiring and never farts wtihin eyesight of another being. Being microscopic, you wouldn't think she would care, but she has a big heart. She really cares..

Anyway, I would invite you to get to know Val and Billy -Bob. Gluon has already made friends with them, although he's not sure about Val, because she doesn't dig nano.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: GUEST,Rapaire
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 11:44 AM

Ya go away for a coupla days and they start talkin' about voles and bunnyboos. freds show up, as does some sort of invisible MOABite. All I gotta ask is

WHAT SORT OF BS IS THIS, ANYWAY????

I'm in the DC area, and if you don't think THAT'S enough to put up with...well....

Did you know that you can haul all the "fertiziler" you want from the Capitol and the White House? True. Of course, the quality is awful, but the quatity is outstanding.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: rumanci
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 11:49 AM

Dung!
I didn't know that .....
they are three sheeeeets to the wind again ?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: GUEST,Rapaire
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 11:54 AM

What, you've never heard people talk about "all that sheeeet from Washington?"


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