Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] [26] [27] [28] [29] [30] [31] [32] [33] [34] [35] [36] [37] [38] [39] [40] [41] [42] [43] [44] [45] [46] [47] [48] [49] [50] [51] [52] [53] [54] [55] [56] [57] [58] [59] [60] [61] [62] [63] [64] [65] [66] [67] [68] [69] [70] [71] [72] [73] [74] [75] [76] [77] [78] [79] [80] [81] [82] [83] [84] [85] [86] [87] [88] [89] [90] [91] [92] [93] [94] [95] [96] [97] [98] [99] [100] [101] [102] [103] [104] [105] [106] [107] [108] [109] [110] [111] [112] [113] [114] [115] [116] [117] [118] [119] [120] [121] [122] [123] [124] [125] [126] [127] [128] [129] [130] [131] [132] [133] [134] [135] [136] [137] [138] [139] [140] [141] [142] [143] [144] [145] [146] [147] [148] [149] [150] [151] [152] [153] [154] [155] [156] [157] [158] [159] [160] [161] [162] [163] [164] [165] [166] [167] [168] [169] [170] [171] [172] [173] [174] [175] [176] [177] [178] [179] [180] [181] [182] [183] [184] [185] [186] [187] [188] [189] [190] [191] [192] [193] [194] [195] [196] [197] [198] [199] [200] [201] [202] [203] [204] [205] [206] [207] [208] [209] [210] [211] [212] [213] [214] [215] [216] [217] [218] [219] [220] [221] [222] [223] [224] [225] [226] [227] [228] [229] [230] [231] [232] [233] [234] [235] [236] [237] [238] [239] [240] [241] [242] [243] [244] [245] [246] [247] [248] [249] [250] [251] [252] [253] [254] [255] [256] [257] [258] [259] [260] [261] [262] [263] [264] [265] [266] [267] [268] [269] [270] [271] [272] [273] [274] [275] [276] [277] [278] [279] [280] [281] [282] [283] [284] [285] [286] [287] [288] [289] [290] [291] [292] [293] [294] [295] [296] [297] [298] [299] [300] [301] [302] [303] [304] [305] [306] [307] [308] [309] [310] [311] [312] [313] [314] [315] [316] [317] [318] [319] [320] [321] [322] [323] [324] [325] [326] [327] [328] [329] [330] [331] [332] [333] [334] [335] [336] [337] [338] [339] [340] [341] [342] [343] [344] [345] [346] [347] [348] [349] [350] [351] [352] [353] [354] [355] [356] [357] [358] [359] [360] [361] [362] [363] [364] [365] [366] [367] [368] [369] [370] [371] [372] [373] [374] [375] [376] [377] [378] [379] [380] [381] [382] [383] [384] [385] [386] [387] [388] [389] [390] [391] [392] [393] [394] [395] [396] [397] [398] [399] [400] [401] [402] [403] [404] [405] [406] [407] [408] [409] [410] [411] [412] [413] [414] [415] [416] [417] [418] [419] [420] [421] [422] [423] [424] [425] [426] [427] [428] [429] [430] [431] [432] [433] [434] [435] [436] [437] [438] [439] [440] [441] [442] [443] [444] [445] [446] [447] [448] [449] [450] [451] [452] [453] [454] [455] [456] [457] [458] [459] [460] [461] [462] [463] [464] [465] [466] [467] [468] [469] [470] [471] [472] [473] [474] [475] [476] [477] [478] [479] [480] [481] [482] [483] [484] [485] [486] [487] [488] [489] [490] [491] [492] [493] [494] [495] [496] [497] [498] [499] [500] [501] [502] [503] [504] [505] [506] [507] [508] [509] [510] [511] [512] [513] [514] [515] [516] [517] [518] [519] [520] [521] [522] [523] [524] [525] [526] [527] [528] [529] [530] [531] [532] [533] [534] [535] [536] [537] [538] [539] [540] [541] [542] [543] [544] [545] [546] [547] [548] [549] [550] [551] [552] [553] [554] [555] [556] [557] [558] [559] [560] [561] [562] [563] [564] [565] [566] [567] [568] [569] [570] [571] [572] [573] [574] [575] [576] [577] [578] [579] [580] [581] [582] [583] [584] [585] [586] [587] [588] [589] [590] [591] [592] [593] [594] [595] [596] [597] [598] [599] [600] [601] [602] [603] [604] [605] [606] [607] [608] [609] [610] [611] [612] [613] [614] [615] [616] [617] [618] [619] [620] [621] [622] [623] [624] [625] [626] [627] [628] [629] [630] [631] [632] [633] [634] [635] [636] [637] [638] [639] [640] [641] [642] [643] [644] [645] [646] [647] [648] [649] [650] [651] [652] [653] [654] [655] [656] [657] [658] [659] [660] [661] [662] [663] [664] [665] [666] [667] [668] [669] [670] [671] [672] [673] [674] [675] [676] [677] [678] [679] [680] [681] [682] [683] [684] [685] [686] [687] [688] [689] [690] [691] [692] [693] [694] [695] [696] [697] [698] [699] [700] [701] [702] [703] [704] [705] [706] [707] [708] [709] [710] [711] [712] [713] [714] [715] [716] [717] [718] [719] [720] [721] [722] [723] [724] [725] [726] [727] [728] [729] [730] [731] [732] [733] [734] [735] [736] [737] [738] [739] [740] [741] [742] [743] [744] [745] [746] [747] [748] [749] [750] [751] [752] [753] [754] [755] [756] [757] [758] [759] [760] [761] [762] [763] [764] [765] [766] [767] [768] [769] [770] [771] [772] [773] [774] [775] [776] [777] [778] [779] [780] [781] [782] [783] [784] [785] [786] [787] [788] [789] [790] [791] [792] [793] [794] [795] [796] [797] [798] [799] [800] [801] [802] [803] [804] [805] [806] [807] [808] [809] [810] [811] [812] [813] [814] [815] [816] [817] [818] [819] [820] [821] [822] [823] [824] [825] [826] [827] [828] [829] [830] [831] [832] [833] [834] [835] [836] [837] [838] [839] [840] [841] [842] [843] [844] [845] [846] [847] [848] [849] [850] [851] [852] [853] [854] [855] [856] [857] [858] [859] [860] [861] [862] [863] [864] [865] [866] [867] [868] [869] [870] [871] [872] [873] [874] [875] [876] [877] [878] [879] [880] [881] [882] [883] [884] [885] [886] [887] [888] [889] [890] [891] [892] [893] [894] [895] [896] [897] [898] [899] [900] [901] [902] [903] [904] [905] [906] [907] [908] [909] [910] [911] [912] [913] [914] [915] [916] [917] [918] [919] [920] [921] [922] [923] [924] [925] [926] [927] [928] [929] [930] [931] [932] [933] [934] [935] [936] [937] [938] [939] [940] [941] [942] [943] [944] [945] [946] [947] [948] [949] [950] [951] [952] [953] [954] [955] [956] [957] [958] [959] [960] [961] [962] [963] [964] [965] [966] [967] [968] [969] [970] [971] [972] [973] [974] [975] [976] [977] [978] [979] [980] [981] [982] [983] [984] [985] [986] [987] [988] [989] [990] [991] [992] [993] [994] [995] [996] [997] [998] [999] [1000] [1001] [1002] [1003] [1004] [1005] [1006] [1007] [1008] [1009] [1010] [1011] [1012] [1013] [1014] [1015] [1016] [1017] [1018] [1019] [1020] [1021] [1022] [1023] [1024] [1025] [1026] [1027] [1028] [1029] [1030] [1031] [1032] [1033] [1034] [1035] [1036] [1037] [1038] [1039] [1040] [1041] [1042] [1043] [1044] [1045] [1046] [1047] [1048] [1049] [1050] [1051] [1052] [1053] [1054] [1055] [1056] [1057] [1058] [1059] [1060] [1061] [1062] [1063] [1064] [1065] [1066] [1067] [1068] [1069] [1070] [1071] [1072] [1073] [1074] [1075] [1076] [1077] [1078] [1079] [1080] [1081] [1082] [1083] [1084] [1085] [1086] [1087] [1088] [1089] [1090] [1091] [1092] [1093] [1094] [1095] [1096] [1097] [1098] [1099] [1100] [1101] [1102] [1103] [1104] [1105] [1106] [1107] [1108] [1109] [1110] [1111] [1112] [1113] [1114] [1115] [1116] [1117] [1118] [1119] [1120] [1121] [1122] [1123] [1124] [1125] [1126] [1127] [1128] [1129] [1130] [1131] [1132] [1133] [1134]


BS: The Mother of all BS threads

Amos 22 Jul 04 - 08:07 PM
Amos 22 Jul 04 - 08:05 PM
Amos 22 Jul 04 - 08:04 PM
Amos 22 Jul 04 - 08:03 PM
Amos 22 Jul 04 - 08:03 PM
Amos 22 Jul 04 - 08:02 PM
Amos 22 Jul 04 - 08:02 PM
Amos 22 Jul 04 - 08:01 PM
Amos 22 Jul 04 - 08:00 PM
Amos 22 Jul 04 - 07:59 PM
GUEST,MMario 22 Jul 04 - 01:45 PM
Little Hawk 22 Jul 04 - 12:52 PM
Rapparee 22 Jul 04 - 12:28 PM
Acme 22 Jul 04 - 12:17 PM
Amos 22 Jul 04 - 10:25 AM
Rapparee 22 Jul 04 - 08:20 AM
Amos 21 Jul 04 - 11:39 PM
Rapparee 21 Jul 04 - 09:26 PM
Amos 21 Jul 04 - 09:17 PM
Rapparee 21 Jul 04 - 08:43 PM
Amos 21 Jul 04 - 07:36 PM
Rapparee 21 Jul 04 - 03:09 PM
Rapparee 21 Jul 04 - 11:34 AM
Amos 21 Jul 04 - 10:12 AM
Acme 21 Jul 04 - 10:08 AM
Rapparee 21 Jul 04 - 09:17 AM
GUEST,MMario 21 Jul 04 - 09:11 AM
Rapparee 21 Jul 04 - 09:05 AM
Acme 21 Jul 04 - 01:47 AM
Little Hawk 20 Jul 04 - 11:10 PM
Rapparee 20 Jul 04 - 09:53 PM
Acme 20 Jul 04 - 06:56 PM
Amos 20 Jul 04 - 06:03 PM
Rapparee 20 Jul 04 - 01:02 PM
freda underhill 20 Jul 04 - 12:31 PM
GUEST,MMario 20 Jul 04 - 12:19 PM
Rapparee 20 Jul 04 - 11:53 AM
Little Hawk 20 Jul 04 - 10:27 AM
Amos 20 Jul 04 - 10:05 AM
Acme 20 Jul 04 - 09:58 AM
Rapparee 20 Jul 04 - 09:52 AM
Little Hawk 19 Jul 04 - 11:37 PM
Amos 19 Jul 04 - 08:37 PM
Rapparee 19 Jul 04 - 08:22 PM
Amos 19 Jul 04 - 05:57 PM
Rapparee 19 Jul 04 - 03:51 PM
Amos 19 Jul 04 - 02:33 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 19 Jul 04 - 02:02 PM
Acme 19 Jul 04 - 12:18 PM
Rapparee 19 Jul 04 - 09:55 AM
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:






Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 08:07 PM

10. How does understanding leak through all these layers so that we see clearly what Joanna is saying and meaning even though we only have a trace on a screen to look at? Most ordinary thing in the world, happens millions of times a minute in the world. But how? How does such a diluted trace enable us to not only understand what Joanna is saying, but even better to intuit what she really meant? (I hasten to add that for the sake of clarity and simplicity we havent even gone into the subtlety of deciding to say words other than those that reflect your meaning, so that they will be altered on receipt and somehow get your meaning across without your having to articulate itwhich is neither abstraction nor symbolizing but often just aberrated communicating).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 08:05 PM

9. Not all these steps are actual abstraction, but note that we have abstracted experience into memory ,and memory into words, The other steps have to do with symbolizing, which is similar but different.
The use of switches has added another and subtler layer of abstraction or at least derivation. Electronic mail, for example, represents the act of one person communicating to another, but it provides a far more abstract experience because there is no contact between the effort at source and the experience at receipt. It is more of a semaphore than a hello. Even in an old-fashioned hand-written letter you could see the personality of the individual revealed through visual cues in the formation of the characters, the sweep of the connectors or the spikes of the risers, etc. The new medium not only removes the visual cues, it also abstracts the experience of reconstructing the senders view one more level by removing even the fingerprints and sweat one once knew were present in a hand-written letter. Given that e-mail does this, why does it seem so rapid and intimate and yet easy to understand when it does? Ah theres the mystery.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 08:04 PM

8. This symbolizing process actually requires several layers of abstraction.
? Experience a cat
? Make a picture of experiencing a cat
? Make concepts representing the memory image
? Make language representing the concepts, including morphemes into which you may embed abstracted bits of meaning and phonemes containing agreed-upon sounds
? Make an alphabet of shapes to represent phonemes of sounds (omit if using Chinese)
? Make spellings, using the alphabet, to establish forms for the word-sounds used to represent the abstracted memory
? Carve, paint, or build from sticks symbols representing the alphabet forms agreed on for the words needed to represent the thought representing the experience. Or draw them on paper. An A drawn on paper represents all A functions which represents sounds Aww Ahhh and Ay, one or more such letters representing the phonemic component of a sound series agreed upon to represent a concept of an experience.
? Make a numbering system based on your fingers or toes, or both. If you are a sloth, multiply by six and call it hex. Now, take all those forms representing sounds representing words representing etc., and choose a number to represent each one of them. This is a Good Thing because numbers are better than letters anyway.
? Now build a switching system to make digital (binary) representations of the numbers which you have mapped to characters in the alphabet, and a complicated electronic display system to translate those digital representations back into shapes (analog) that your eye can translate.
? Using a modem, send pulses representing the bits of the binary representation of the characters combined into words representing sounds representing concepts representing the memory of the experience of looking at a cat.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 08:03 PM

7. For a third level of abstraction, take the noises of language, with which you have draped your intention to communicate the fact of facing this cat, and make up some symbols odd shapes or pieces of copper or some such that will do to represent the noises that you would make if you were using noises to express the words which represent the concepts which represent the the image your mind contains which represents the experience of facing this cat.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 08:03 PM

6. For a second level of abstraction, conceive that language exists, and that you use some of it to describe the experience of facing a cat..Think of the words you would select to parallel the picture which in turn reminds you of a past fact. Dont so anything with them, just choose the words. In so doing you have constructed another half-step away from the experience, abstracting from a picture to words. Now, decide to make some noises to express the words chosen to relay the experience of this cat (or whatever) across a distance or across a span of time (Yesterday, a cat watched me; today, I watched a cat).
Notice the experience of making the noises is a bit more abstract than the experience of seeing the picture (recalling an event). If someone else is making the noises (leaving it to you to understand and reconstruct what pictures they might be looking at, and from there what they might have experienced), you have an additional step of remove from the raw experience of seeing.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 08:02 PM

5. First, notice the simple and highly energetic condition of being aware of something. Make it a cat, if oneis nearby, or your own shoe if you are wearing one, or any object; notice the action of being aware of it..
Second, conceive a memory of that experience in the form of a mental representation of the cat or object. This is a first order abstraction, taking the raw experience out of its place in time and carrying it forward with the owners attention. You are a viewer; you see a picture of the cat or whatever you just chose to look at. Its not an experience of the direct sort youre experiencing looking at an image in a different space or way than you were looking at the object. The experience is abstracted into a different kind of experience.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 08:02 PM

4. There are grosses of fat tomes available on the rationale of this approach to information representation. A switch represents whether or not person A is in the room, whether a plane is in motion or not, whether a motor is running or cold. Eight switches can count up the number of times a fly breathes, or the gallons of fuel used in one minute of operation by a flattop. This power to represent extends from the instant to the dynamically changing: communications become possible as soon as an energy pulse can be agreed to represent a switch in an on state or an off state.
So far has this wave extended across our cutural horizons that these notions, once the bleeding edge of cybernetic theory, are now grade-school stuff. The machinery to combine and design more and more of these switches has become the hottest industry of the century in less than twenty years.
This is a migration past a third-order abstraction of awareness. This is not a difficult thing to notice.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 08:01 PM

3. First, the machinery. Ever since a transistor began making the rounds at Bell Labs, we have been accelerating on an autobahn defined by switching machinery. Our halls are littered with boxes-- 286es, 386es, Suns and Amigas, Macs and Pentiums. The boxes contain switching machinery carried to the absurd limit, it seems. Where we were raised thinking of switches as finger-sized, we now carry pockets full of them, numbering in the millions and now trillions. The terabit, a number of switches once exceeding all the switches on Earth, now fits into a large human hand.
And, make no mistake, all we are working from in this tidal wave is switches. Someone noticed that a switch has two choices built into it; that if you have two switches you have four choices; with four, sixteen choices, with eight, two-hundred and fifty-six choices. Compounding the numbers of switches, each only representing two states, allows the entire universe to be condensed into a simulation, given enough switches and the power to set and reset them quickly.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 08:00 PM

2. Signals, Semaphores, and Systems of Symbols
Information and information technology rule the tide of our late twentieth and early twenty-first. centuries No other discipline attracts as much new attention, or comes anywhere near as close to replacing sex and food as the topics of the hour, hour after hour, in the cafeterias of western mankind.
Given this amazing and still-swelling transfiguration, it may be worthwhile to notice what all the blather concerning the Information Age and informational economies are about.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 07:59 PM

1. This is a long essay, extracted from a book called "Notebook 15" which seeks to lay out some clarity on the nature of our information systems where they reach their final destination you and me. I apologiz e for the length of it but I did not have time to make it shorter, as a famous writer once said. If you do take the trouble to read it all, I applaud you and hope that you find some part of it valuable.

The first section discusses what we use to relay information - the signals, symbols and semaphoes from which we miraculously get understanding.

The second section provides some deconstruction of what occurs when we send each other postcards or e-mail.

The third offers a bridge to the real driving force behind information and communication again, you and me. Let us move out, and see how we might get there from here.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 01:45 PM

Offer to work from home!

I thought Joe already did?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 12:52 PM

You're right. "Idaho" is embarrassing, specially when coming from the lips of a female.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 12:28 PM

Them UK Lotto folks still haven't put anything in my bank account.

The check or cheque I sent Khandu hasn't cleared, either. Good thing!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 12:17 PM

panting to know more. . .

start looking over your shoulders, folks, Freda is getting those extra screens ready. . .


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 10:25 AM

Offer to work from home! :>)

A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 08:20 AM

I didn't! But I had to use them as collateral for a loan on the box I live in and Big Frankie wanted his money and it was either my pants or parts of my anatomy, and I'm really quite attached to the latter.

I don't know HOW I'm going to go to work without being arrested.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 11:39 PM

You should never buy your basic garments on the installment plan, man. Object lesson!!


A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 09:26 PM

...I'm still poor. Today they repossessed my pants....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 09:17 PM

I think that was most gracious of you, after I passed one the UK Lotto error email in your favor!!

A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 08:43 PM

Sorry, no.

The correct question for the answer is:

"How does Steven Hawking make small talk at cocktail parties?"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 07:36 PM

"What is Euclidean anti de Sitter space conformal to?", right?? BZZZZT!!! I'm a millioniare!!



A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 03:09 PM

Amos, here's your answer:

The thermodynamic partition function, Z, for a system at temperature, beta to the minus one, is the expectation value of e to the minus beta, times the Hamiltonian, summed over all states. As is now well known, this can be represented by a Euclidean path integral, over all fields that are periodic in Euclidean time, with period beta at infinity. Similarly, the partition function for a system with angular velocity, omega, will be given by a path integral over all fields, that are periodic under the combination of a Euclidean time translation, beta, and a rotation, omega beta. One can also specify the gauge potential at infinity. This gives the partition function for a thermodynamic ensemble, with electric and magnetic type charges. The mass, angular momentum, and electric charges of the configurations in the path integral, are not determined by the boundary conditions at infinity. They can be different for different configurations. Each configuration, will therefore be weighted in the partition function, by an e to the minus the charge, times the corresponding potential. On the other hand, the magnetic type charges, are uniquely determined by the boundary conditions at infinity, and are the same for all field configurations in the path integral. The path integral therefore gives the partition function, for a given magnetic charge sector.

The lowest order contribution to the partition function, will be e to the minus I, where I, is the action of the Euclidean black hole solution. The action can be related to the Hamiltonian, as integral H, minus pq dot. In a stationary black hole metric, all the q dots will be zero. Thus the action, I, will be the time period beta, time the value of the Hamiltonian. As I said earlier, the Hamiltonian surface term at infinity, is mass, plus omega J, plus Phi Q, and the Hamiltonian surface term on the horizon, is zero. If one uses the contribution from this action to the partition function, and uses the standard formula, one finds the entropy is zero.

However, because the surfaces of constant Euclidean time, all intersected at the horizon, one had to introduce an inner boundary there. The action, I, = beta times Hamiltonian, is the action for region between the boundary at infinity infinity, and a small tubular neighbourhood of the horizon. But the partition function, is given by a path integral over all metrics with the required behavior at infinity, and no internal boundaries or infinities. One therefore has to add the action of the tubular neighbourhood of the horizon. What ever supergravity theory one is using, and what ever dimension one is in, one can make a conformal transformation of the metric to the Einstein frame, in which the coefficient of the Einstein Hilbert action, capital R, is on over 16 pi G, where G is Newton's constant in the dimension of the theory. The surface term associate with the Einstein Hilbert action, is one over 8 pi G, times the trace of the second fundamental form. This gives the tubular neighbourhood of the horizon, an action of minus one over 4 G, times the codimension two area of the horizon. If one adds this action to the beta times Hamiltonian, one gets a contribution to the entropy, of area over 4 G, independent of dimension, or of the particular supergravity theory. Higher order curvature terms in the action, would give the tubular neighbourhood an action, that was small compared to area over 4 G, for large black holes. Thus the quarter area law, is universal for black holes. It can be traced to the non trivial topology of Euclidean black holes, which provides an obstruction to foliating them by a family of time surfaces, and using the Hamiltonian to generate a unitary evolution of quantum states. Because the entropy is given by the horizon area in Planck units, one might think that it corresponded to microstates, that are localized near the horizon. However, gravitational entropy, like gravitational energy, can not be localized, but can only be defined globally. This can be seen most clearly in the case of the three dimensional BTZ black hole, to which all four or five dimensional black holes, can be related by a series of U dualities, which preserve the horizon area. The BTZ black hole, is a solution of the 2+1 Einstein equations, with a negative cosmological constant.

Locally, the only solution of these equations, is anti de Sitter space, but the global structure can be different. To see this, one can picture anti de Sitter space, as conformal to the interior of a cylinder in 2+1 Minkowski space. The surface of the cylinder, represents the time like infinity of anti de Sitter space. Similarly, Euclidean anti de Sitter space, is conformal to the interior of a cylinder in three dimensional Euclidean anti de Sitter space. If one now identify this cylinder periodically along its axis, one occasions the background geometry for quantum fields in anti de Sitter space, at a finite temperature.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 11:34 AM

Amos, are you thinking of pruning Chucky's plums?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 10:12 AM

Them as ain't had proper raisin' need some proper prunin', and thassa fack. Fer plum sartain.

A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 10:08 AM

I bet their kids don't make mother's day gifts of pin cushions (out of tuna fish cans, sand, glue, and felt) or popsicle stick picture frames, either.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 09:17 AM

Well, considering from whom they are descended they probably can't help it. Really. I mean, look at some of those they claim as ancestors! And their homes are full of paintings, and not a sad clown, a velvet Elvis, or a big-eyed child in the lot! And I sincerely doubt that they've EVER run a trotline or put stinkbait on a hook. I can only think that, as we used to say, "They haven't had proper raisin'."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 09:11 AM

Castle trash *are* a real social problem - they move into the neighborhood - and the property values plummet - all those manicured lawns, and tennis courts! TOPIARY!!!! you would think they would have at least a self-respect. Like a pink flamingo on the lawn - the least they could do is TRY to fit in and respect the mores of the community they live in.

Would you believe some of them (not all, I'm sure) have

servants?


unbelievable. In this day and age?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 09:05 AM

I was in England when Diana was killed and she told me that it wasn't. She also told me that it was Chuck who wouldn't let her bring me some nice tea when my wife and I were motoring in the Balmoral area that cold, wet, October night. She wanted to, thought it would be "downright neighborly" (to use her own words), but Chuck wouldn't let her -- got downright hostile, she said. Anyway, I'd crossed her off my "invite list" because of it, but I've since restored her and in fact I chatted briefly with her when a few spirits dropped in for a drop the other night.

Chucky still is off and there's powerful little chance he's going to be restored to full social status. The very idea, hangin' around with that floozy when poor Di was just sitting at home, wearing a revealing negligee and just waiting, waiting, waiting.... Then he'd come home smelling of cheap beer, cheap cigars, and cheaper perfume, and just drop into bed wearing his dirty boxer shorts and snore and burp from both ends. Just some castle trash, if you ask me.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 01:47 AM

And you think "Idaho" is better?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 11:10 PM

Rapaire! It is not proper to use the term "Indiana" on this forum, as it is deemed offensive to the memory of the late Princess of Wales.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 09:53 PM

I'm not whiff! I bathed just...let's see...I remember it because the day was sooo cold and there was snow on the ground...hmmmm...I think I was living in Indiana, so it would have been before 2000....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 06:56 PM

but not a wuss


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 06:03 PM

And something of a whiff, at that....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 01:02 PM

I'm a waif....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: freda underhill
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 12:31 PM

my mother was a WAAF..


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 12:19 PM

SRS - My Mom was a WAVE; One aunt a WAFT; and my other Aunt was a Lady Marine.*



*(never EVER under any circumstance** refer to a Lady Marine as a 'BAM'. Big Mistake, Probably one of the worst I have ever made in my life.)



**unless actively suicidal


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 11:53 AM

Thank God we've finally achieved something!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 10:27 AM

We have Shatnerization!!!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 10:05 AM

Fie!! Fie!! Fie!!! Fie!! Fie!!! Fie!!!



A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 09:58 AM

My mother (a former WAC) had a favorite miltary joke:

If a WAC is a female soldier, and a WAVE is a female sailor, what is a WOK?


(Answer included for those prescient enough to know how to find it.)




It's what you throw at a Wabbit!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 09:52 AM

Never dropped no roach there! Probably would have hurt like blazes.

Here's a little something one of them radical hippie commie Purdue University perfessers sent out:
------------
Two boys in Boston were playing basketball when a rabid Rottweiler attacked one of them. Thinking quickly, the other boy ripped a board off a nearby fence, wedged it into the dog's collar and twisted it, breaking the dog's neck.

A newspaper reporter from the Boston Herald witnessed the incident and rushed over to interview the boy.

The reporter began entering data into his laptop, beginning with the

headline: "Brave Young Celtics Fan Saves Friend From Jaws Of Vicious Animal."

"But I'm not a Celtics fan, "the little hero interjected. "Sorry, replied the reporter. "But since we're in Boston, I just assumed you were."

Hitting the delete key, the reporter began "John Kerry Fan rescues Friend From Horrific Dog Attack."

"But I'm not a Kerry fan either," the boy responds. The reporter says, "I assumed everybody in this state was either for the Celtics or Kerry or Kennedy."

"What team or person do you like? " "I'm a Houston Rockets fan and I really like George W. Bush" the boy says.

Hitting the delete key, the reporter begins again, "Arrogant Little Conservative Bastard Kills Beloved Family Pet."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 11:37 PM

A ball-coney must be a male rabbit, right? Sort of like a cockroach, only much larger.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 08:37 PM

Dang....BALconies?? I never heard of no gender with no balconies built in. Dat must be one BIG gender indeed, Mister Rapaire. I'm have inclined to move to that there IDAho my own self.

A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 08:22 PM

No, a great big one. Balconies and everything.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 05:57 PM

WHich is all just his way of confessing that he has a very small gender...


A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 03:51 PM

Je parle Francais une peu. Y, yo hablo Espanol uno poco. Und, ich spreichen sei Deutsch nicht.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 02:33 PM

Well, somedays there's male and some days there's none...


A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 02:02 PM

Rapaire is an English-speaking American. He doesn't have a gender. If he spoke Spanish, French, Italian or German he would have a gender... as would his sofa, his computer, his car, his broccoli....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 12:18 PM

I thought that was going to be the one about the gay roosters. . .

You have a gender all day long, Rap, but as for sex. . .


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 09:55 AM

The Chicken Story

Zeb was in the fertilized egg business. He had several hundred young
layers, called pullets, and eight or ten roosters, whose job was to
fertilize the eggs.

Zeb kept records, and any rooster that didn't perform well went into
the soup pot and was replaced. That took an awful lot of Zeb's time; so, Zeb got a set of tiny bells and attached them to his roosters. Each bell had a different tone so that Zeb could tell, from a distance, which rooster was performing. Now he could sit on the porch and fill out an efficiency report simply by listening to the bells.

Zeb's favorite rooster was old Brewster. A very fine specimen he was,
too but on this particular morning, Zeb noticed that Brewster's bell
had not rung at all!! Zeb went to investigate. The other roosters were chasing pullets, bells a-ringing! The pullets, hearing the roosters coming, would run for cover. But, to Zeb's amazement, Brewster had his bell in his beak, so it couldn't ring. He'd sneak up on a pullet, do his job and walk on to the next one.

Zeb was so proud of Brewster that he entered him in the county fair.
Brewster was an overnight sensation.

The judges not only awarded him the No Bell Piece Prize but also the
Pulletsurprise.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

 


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 23 October 12:35 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright 1998 by the Mudcat Caf Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.