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BS: The Mother of all BS threads

John Hardly 18 Feb 08 - 06:08 PM
John Hardly 18 Feb 08 - 05:51 PM
Acme 18 Feb 08 - 01:05 PM
Amos 18 Feb 08 - 12:25 PM
John Hardly 18 Feb 08 - 12:24 PM
Amos 18 Feb 08 - 10:56 AM
Rapparee 18 Feb 08 - 10:07 AM
Amos 18 Feb 08 - 01:38 AM
Rapparee 17 Feb 08 - 08:37 PM
Amos 17 Feb 08 - 07:18 PM
Acme 17 Feb 08 - 04:58 PM
Little Hawk 17 Feb 08 - 12:54 PM
Amos 17 Feb 08 - 11:57 AM
Amos 17 Feb 08 - 10:46 AM
Rapparee 17 Feb 08 - 10:21 AM
Acme 17 Feb 08 - 01:49 AM
Amos 17 Feb 08 - 12:36 AM
Acme 16 Feb 08 - 10:45 PM
Rapparee 16 Feb 08 - 10:33 PM
Little Hawk 16 Feb 08 - 10:22 PM
Little Hawk 16 Feb 08 - 10:22 PM
Little Hawk 16 Feb 08 - 10:18 PM
Rapparee 16 Feb 08 - 09:55 PM
Little Hawk 16 Feb 08 - 09:01 PM
Amos 16 Feb 08 - 07:46 PM
Little Hawk 16 Feb 08 - 05:20 PM
Little Hawk 16 Feb 08 - 04:39 PM
Amos 16 Feb 08 - 04:25 PM
Amos 16 Feb 08 - 03:59 PM
Acme 16 Feb 08 - 03:49 PM
Amos 16 Feb 08 - 03:36 PM
Acme 16 Feb 08 - 03:31 PM
Rapparee 16 Feb 08 - 03:25 PM
Little Hawk 16 Feb 08 - 03:00 PM
Amos 16 Feb 08 - 02:33 PM
Little Hawk 16 Feb 08 - 02:00 PM
Amos 16 Feb 08 - 01:53 PM
Amos 16 Feb 08 - 10:28 AM
Acme 15 Feb 08 - 10:46 PM
Rapparee 15 Feb 08 - 05:47 PM
Amos 15 Feb 08 - 05:28 PM
Rapparee 15 Feb 08 - 04:49 PM
Rapparee 15 Feb 08 - 04:48 PM
Little Hawk 15 Feb 08 - 04:12 PM
Amos 15 Feb 08 - 04:03 PM
Rapparee 15 Feb 08 - 03:03 PM
Amos 15 Feb 08 - 02:56 PM
Acme 15 Feb 08 - 01:35 PM
Little Hawk 15 Feb 08 - 12:56 PM
Amos 15 Feb 08 - 12:12 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: John Hardly
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 06:08 PM

is "folkloric" more or less fattening than "caloric"?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: John Hardly
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 05:51 PM

You realize, of course, that "folkloric" rhymes with "paragoric"?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 01:05 PM

I've been looking for some Art Thieme information through the Mudcat search this morning. Whew! If we were giving honorary MOAB memberships, Mr. Thieme would be up there at the top! (Thing is, his stuff gets counted as "folklore." MOM loves Turtle Soup! I wonder of MOM will ever become "folkloric?")

Just had a phone call interrupting my work. A recorded message to remind me that early voting in the Texas Primary begins tomorrow!

Whoo, hoo!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 12:25 PM

Why, John Hardly!! What a pleasure to see you in these mossy halls!! Wlcome. Have some tea!!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: John Hardly
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 12:24 PM

Hate drew a circle around himself
Effectively shutting me and my friendship out
Love drew a circle around us both
And though hate and I were both enclosed
In this bigger, more inclusive, most loving circle
The original circle that hate had drawn around himself
Was still intact.

Hate can be such a jerk.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 10:56 AM

Modern medicine's disgraced,
Get the goddamn things replaced!

Hey hey, little Mudcat Mother,
Hey, hey , hey.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 10:07 AM

I use glucosamine and chondrotine
Still seems like the knee ain't got no rightin'
Hey, etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 01:38 AM

Get some chiro,   some glucosamine,
Rapaire's knees cry out for tamin;

HEy, hey, little Mudcat mother,
Hey , hey , hey


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 08:37 PM

Iffen some relief don't come soon, Amos,
My hurtin' left knee is gonna lame us,
Hey hey, etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 07:18 PM

I don't need no Shatner factor --
Who needs an overweight, has-been actor?

Hey, hey, ;little Mudcat Mother
Hey, hey


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 04:58 PM

Hey, MOM! I've been rearranging furniture in my office. Means I've been rearranging the dust (mostly into the dust pan with a broom). Is it too early for Spring Cleaning?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 12:54 PM

But if you had some Shatnerizing,
Just think! Results could be surprising!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 11:57 AM

Sorry -- USING the wrong brand.

All I need,
I do confess,
Hot cuppa joe
And some fine BS

Hey, hey, little Mudcat Mother
Hey , hey, hey


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 10:46 AM

If you have to fix them all the time, you may be sing the wrong brand.



A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 10:21 AM

Heck, I fix computers around here all the time and the lady of the house throws in breakfast if I fix it myself.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 01:49 AM

I know. I got lunch AND dinner, though. :)


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 12:36 AM

Jeeze, Still, BBW gets from 50 to 90 bucks an hour for that sort of expertise.


S


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 10:45 PM

Jumping the gun there, Little Hawk, but stick around, there will be another chance!

I've spent most of the day, off and on, at the next door neighbor's house getting her ancient (2002) Dell hooked up to a wireless connection to the cable modem she just subscribed to. They gave her the box with the modem and said "good luck!" I thought that was pretty typical for this company, but when we had to call to ask a question about the account number to logon with the modem, the woman on the other end (in Louisville, KY, I asked) set it up remotely. It was easy and she was polite--and I ended the call by telling her that in 20 years of my experience with Charter, this was the first time it was easy! I stopped using them six years ago and swore I'd never go back, but with the speed of the connection, it's tempting.

I had to add a wireless card and then an ethernet card, then I was able to set up the modem and then the router. Then we moved the computer to the next room, leaving the modem and router in the living room. And the connection still worked. Whew! I got home at about 9pm. She did feed me lunch AND dinner. :)

Let's hope this good deed goes unpunished.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 10:33 PM

Well, you used Canadian counting. That's how "Shane" would have counted were he still with us.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 10:22 PM

No, wait. I didn't count right.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 10:22 PM

Ummm... 23,000?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 10:18 PM

Sounds to me like they're afraid their kids might get too smart for them, Rapaire...just like Black folks and Injuns gittin' too smart! Cain't have that. Folks gits uppity when they has had too much eddication.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 09:55 PM

Like the old cowboy said, "About 2% of the people kin read or hear something and learn from it and not make the same mistake. Another 2% kin learn from their mistakes. The rest of us just keep pissin' in our boots."

Americans have always had a fear of intellectualism and education -- a love/hate relationship. "My cows don't need libraries," is a saying out here (and to which I reply, "Maybe that's why they're still cows").

"You only need enough education to figger out if your paycheck's right." "Just teach 'em readin', writin', and 'rithmetic. 'Sall anybody needs."
"I never went beyond the eighth grade and I turned out okay."
"Too much schoolin' spoils the kid."

And yet...when the kid graduates Mom and Dad are ready to bust their buttons with pride. "He got hisself a college degree and look! He ain't stuck up or nothin'!"

Among the very first things the settlers did was set up a school of some sort. Among the last things discarded on Oregon Trail when the going got bad were books -- with Shakespeare predominating.

Go figger....


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 09:01 PM

Well said.

Indeed, a powerful intellect which is cold...devoid of compassion or positivity...can be a very dangerous thing, and those types are sometimes seen speaking out on behalf of extremely toxic philosophies. The neocon movement has a few clever, even brilliant people of that type at its center. I was going to say "at its heart", but then it occurred to me that it's a movement which has no heart.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 07:46 PM

There is a kind of semi-toxic intellectualism which is resorted to by souls too battered to be wholly themselves, which substitutes categories for perception and analysis for feelings, which can easily corrode the human spirit into dead thinkingness.

But the same information can lend great spirit to a group which embraces and debates it unafraid, while still remembering who they are inside.

Being able to handle information well astonishes people sometimes because it is a rarity, and sometimes it puts people off if they believe it is a sign of falsity or cold-heartedness--but there is no reason at all it has to be either.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 05:20 PM

Nice interview with S.J. I don't think, however, that a statistic stating that "x" number of people believe in ghosts or in Angles proves anything....until you find out WHY they believe in ghosts or in Angels.

For instance, I believe in evolution and science...and I also believe in ghosts and Angels. You would have to know WHY I believe in ghosts and angels before you could arrive at any kind of realistic assumptions about my beliefs in general.

It is not enough to simply assume that those beliefs (science vs ghosts? evolution vs Angels) are in some way contradictory...and that one MUST therefore believe either one or the other...as if they lay on two sides of an irreconcilable divide. Life is not that simple.

And this is one reason why opinion polls can be very misleading...the questions they ask are too limiting.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 04:39 PM

I've been saying for years on this forum that there is a virulent strain of anti-intellectualism woven deeply through American culture. It can be found in the macho stereotypes perpetuated in movies, TV, and popular entertainment generally....and in the form of dumbass or folksy politicians like Bush or Reagan who get elected...while more cerebral ones like Adlai Stevenson, Al Gore, or Dennis Kucinich get rejected.

Who is the bad guy in most Hollywood thrillers? The intellectual guy. Who is the good guy? The homespun man of action.

This does not help to produce an intelligent society or an enlightened government...it helps to produce the new Fascism (in my opinion). The Fascists hated intellectuals too, because intellectuals tend to ask questions. All authoritarian systems despise intellectuals (except the few who will toe the party line...call them "pet" intellects in service of the system).

**********

Rapaire - Chongo's moral sensibilities? Well...

- Ya don't hit a woman. Try and treat 'em nice at all times, if possible. Be courteous. It's true that in the old movies ya used to have to slap a dame if she went hysterical...to snap her out of it...but that behaviour ain't kosher no more. Times have changed. Keep this in mind at all times. If a man goes hysterical...slap him!

- Ya don't hurt children.

- Ya don't break the law...unless not breakin' it would cause more harm than breakin' it. That's a judgement call ya got to make for yerself.

- If ya gotta slap a witness around some to get him to squeal, don't overdo it. Just slap him around enough so he talks. No need to go overboard.

- Save yer brass knuckles for when ya really need 'em.

- Same for the Tommy Gun. An ordinary handgun will do for most situations. It's ostentatious to use a Tommy Gun when a handgun will do.

- If ya gotta lie, make it a good one.

- If ya gotta shoot someone, make sure not to waste yer ammo. Kill him stone dead with the first shot and save the rest, cos you might need it. He might have friends in the neighborhood.

- Never give a gorilla credit for bein' smarter than he looks. Usually it's the other way around.

*******

Anti-intellectualism goes over pretty big with chimps too, come to think of it.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 04:25 PM

Double thanks. I am very impressed with Ms. S.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 03:59 PM

Ah, many thanks. Susan J. is riveting, and hitting right on my sweet spot...



A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 03:49 PM

You can watch it online.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/index-flash.html


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 03:36 PM

Never mind Chongo--these boys are WAY out of his league, old pal. I won't add, "...or yours", because I respect your vital homegrown intellect.


Wish I had caught it, Stilly.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 03:31 PM

Susan Jacoby was on last night.

    The notion that Americans aren't often at the top of the ladder of erudition isn't new. Every year the media points out how poorly U.S. kids perform in math and geography feats compared to many other nations' school children. Susan Jacoby follows a notable scholarly tradition with her new book, THE AGE OF UNREASON. In 1964 historian Richard Hofstadter won the Pulizter Prize with his lament ? ANTI-INTELLECUTALISM IN AMERICAN LIFE: "The national distaste for the intellectual appeared to be not just a disgrace but a hazard to survival." Jacoby says of Hofstatder's work now: "It is difficult to suppress the fear that the scales of American history have shifted heavily against the vibrant and varied intellectual life so essential to functional democracy."

    Are we in danger from our "addiction to infotainment" rather than a reliance on rationality? Tell us on the blog.



Biography

Susan Jacoby, who began her writing career as a reporter for THE WASHINGTON POST, is the author of five books, including WILD JUSTICE, a Pulitzer Prize finalist. Awarded fellowships by the Guggenheim Foundation, the National Endowment for the Humanities and the New York Public Library's Dorothy and Lewis B. Cullman Center for Scholars and Writers, she has been a contributor to THE NEW YORK TIMES, THE WASHINGTON POST, THE NATION, TomPaine.com and the AARP BULLETIN, among other publications. She is also director of the Center for Inquiry-Metro New York and lives in New York City.

Bill Moyers spoke with Jacoby about FREETHINKERS: A HISTORY OF AMERICAN SECULARISM in 2004, in which Jacoby offered an impassioned history that challenges the current marginalization of secular values. (Watch the interview.) Her newest book is THE AGE OF UNREASON.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 03:25 PM

Which are, exactly, what?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 03:00 PM

He'll do almost anything if you pay him.

Well, I mean anything that doesn't offend his moral sensibilities.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 02:33 PM

I doubt Chongo would be intereste din tracking down clues about a Bill Moyers show...



A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 02:00 PM

Perhaps you should get in touch with Chongo, given the fact that Sherlock Holmes is no longer available.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 01:53 PM

Ah, I see no clues are forthcoming. One of us or the other must be clueless...


On this subject, that would be I.



A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 10:28 AM

Well I missed that command altogether so I didn't. How about a clue?

Several, if you can spare them.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 10:46 PM

Watch Bill Moyer tonight

It's a really excellent program. It's on here right now, if you're on the west coast it probably hasn't come on yet. Record it or sit down and watch it.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 05:47 PM

Yes. I know several such here. Even now they are usually haunted men.

They are stable, law-abiding, caring citizens who if it were necessary could kill without a qualm.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 05:28 PM

Thanks; I have known some who went on such, sometimes having to do most unkindly things to the men, women and children they met in their wanderings. A hudder to remember, even thirty year slater.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 04:49 PM

here.

(Dagslab goodfernothin' computer buttons....)


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 04:48 PM

Long Range Reconnaisance Patrol. Explanation


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 04:12 PM

Good stuff, Rapaire! You have explained it well.

Indeed, all communities everywhere wish to remember the fallen in that fashion, just as you say. And it's totally understandable that they feel that way.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 04:03 PM

What is LRRP?


I think he is onto something good here.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 03:03 PM

- to comfort the bereaved?
Yes. They come and do receive some comfort. I know, I've met them

- to justify the losses?
Not on your life!

- to inspire further such sacrifices in further wars?
God, no!

- to increase patriotic fervour and support of war?
Are you kidding? Here in Idaho, Reddest of the Red, the war is about as popular as gonorrhea or Larry Craig.

- to inspire anger and hatred toward "the enemy"?
Nope.

- to call out for vengeance?
Hell no!

- to honor the dead?
...And to remember them, as the young men and women they were. (Oh, there's also a memorial for the civilians who have been killed by both sides, but it's not on that YouTube segment.)

John Rogers, who thought it all up and has been the driving force behind it, has done it and placed it where it is (easily and immediately visible from a major Interstate) so that people will KNOW, be socked in the gut, by the number of the dead. Most folks can't visualize more than fifty or so people together, at the most. Now, John was LRRP in 'Nam and took a mortar fragment to the head which has harmed the vision in both eyes (right worse than the left). But when the White House won't let pictures of the flag-draped coffins be shown, when the wounded and the dead arrive at 2 a.m. so that home folks won't be disturbed, when the President and VP themselves don't seem to know diddly-squat about the damage war does to lives, why, I start to think that ol' John might be on to something here. I know he's not going to go to a peace demonstration, but he's making more of an impression than most of the demos do.

There are those who stop each year (this will be the fifth) and remark on how many more crosses there are than there were the previous year....


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 02:56 PM

They are part of the sell on certain asserted premises: that the nation as such is inherently a Grat Good to be Protected At All COst, and that it was under Extreme Threat; and therefore, that those dying in battle Stood for Virtue Against the Ultimate Odds, and Paid the Ultimate Price to defend our Great Virtues.

Now, to a certain extent, there is a grain of truth in these assertions, but the sad fact is that the right-wing, the deeply sentimental, and those who want to camouflage their own failures to make similar high-risk contirbutions to the group good, have exagerrated these slogans and laid about with them until they are plumb worn out at the elbows. So they seem, perhaps, less inspiring than at one time they may have seemed.

But I will say this: standing up to a lethal threat in battle takes a huge amount of courage, and a great ability to confront. If you actually do it, especially becaise of a philosophical sense of Virtue, you are being heroic, sure enough. I have never been shot at and do not intend to begin now, myself; if it ever came down to it, I would want to be able to face it as intelligently and courageously as some of these veterans (especially the ones who survive).


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 01:35 PM

Look at the political weight of the term--it's all in the context. If you have a man/woman who fought and killed people who wasn't in the military or in some extreme defensive position, would that term be used? Otherwise, they'd be a murderer. It is a socially sanctioned action with a specific name.

Another such term is "martyr." In other contexts this person would simply be a murder victim or be suicidal.

My two cents.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 12:56 PM

Regarding the "Field of Heroes"...

Is EVERY man who dies in a war automatically a hero? Or is he someone whose luck ran out? Or is he something other than both of those?

If every man in an American military graveyard is a hero, then are not all the dead Iraqis and Afghans and other people who died fighting those men also heroes? And if not, why not? Surely their own people miss them in the same way that we miss ours.

Does the naming of dead soldiers as "heroes" serve a purpose? If so, which purpose?

- to comfort the bereaved?
- to justify the losses?
- to inspire further such sacrifices in further wars?
- to increase patriotic fervour and support of war?
- to inspire anger and hatred toward "the enemy"?
- to call out for vengeance?
- to honor the dead?

Which of those? Or is it all of them? That may depend on who you are and how you think about it.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 12:12 PM

Tuesday, February 12, 2008 at 12:50:20 UTC
Tuesday, February 12, 2008 at 06:50:20 AM at epicenter
Time of Earthquake in other Time Zones
Location 16.409°N, 94.165°W
Depth 99.6 km (61.9 miles)
Region OAXACA, MEXICO
Distances 60 km (35 miles) WNW of Tonala, Chiapas, Mexico
115 km (70 miles) ENE of Salina Cruz, Oaxaca, Mexico
440 km (270 miles) WNW of GUATEMALA CITY, Guatemala
625 km (390 miles) ESE of MEXICO CITY, D.F., Mexico

Location Uncertainty horizontal +/- 4.9 km (3.0 miles); depth +/- 10.2 km (6.3 miles)
Parameters Nst=195, Nph=195, Dmin=751.6 km, Rmss=1.02 sec, Gp= 43°,
M-type=moment magnitude (Mw), Version=



If you're going to Oaxaca
Wear your springs...


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