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BS: The Mother of all BS threads

Acme 27 Jul 07 - 01:27 AM
beardedbruce 27 Jul 07 - 07:23 AM
beardedbruce 27 Jul 07 - 07:34 AM
Amos 27 Jul 07 - 09:15 AM
Rapparee 27 Jul 07 - 09:26 AM
beardedbruce 27 Jul 07 - 09:33 AM
Acme 27 Jul 07 - 12:08 PM
MMario 27 Jul 07 - 12:25 PM
Rapparee 27 Jul 07 - 12:36 PM
beardedbruce 27 Jul 07 - 12:40 PM
Rapparee 27 Jul 07 - 01:11 PM
Rapparee 27 Jul 07 - 02:02 PM
Amos 27 Jul 07 - 04:45 PM
Rapparee 27 Jul 07 - 05:52 PM
Acme 27 Jul 07 - 06:11 PM
Amos 27 Jul 07 - 06:41 PM
Amos 27 Jul 07 - 06:45 PM
Rapparee 27 Jul 07 - 07:13 PM
Little Hawk 27 Jul 07 - 07:54 PM
Amos 27 Jul 07 - 08:09 PM
Little Hawk 27 Jul 07 - 08:12 PM
Rapparee 27 Jul 07 - 08:46 PM
Acme 28 Jul 07 - 02:38 AM
Rapparee 28 Jul 07 - 11:12 AM
Acme 28 Jul 07 - 03:11 PM
Amos 28 Jul 07 - 04:29 PM
Rapparee 28 Jul 07 - 06:30 PM
Amos 28 Jul 07 - 07:02 PM
Rapparee 28 Jul 07 - 10:12 PM
Acme 28 Jul 07 - 11:40 PM
Amos 29 Jul 07 - 01:08 AM
Rustic Rebel 29 Jul 07 - 04:11 AM
Amos 29 Jul 07 - 03:25 PM
Amos 29 Jul 07 - 07:03 PM
Rapparee 29 Jul 07 - 08:17 PM
Amos 30 Jul 07 - 12:48 AM
Acme 30 Jul 07 - 01:54 AM
Rapparee 30 Jul 07 - 09:19 AM
Amos 30 Jul 07 - 10:55 AM
Rapparee 30 Jul 07 - 12:21 PM
Amos 30 Jul 07 - 03:08 PM
Acme 30 Jul 07 - 03:55 PM
Amos 30 Jul 07 - 05:42 PM
Acme 30 Jul 07 - 08:37 PM
Rapparee 30 Jul 07 - 09:08 PM
Amos 31 Jul 07 - 01:50 AM
Little Hawk 31 Jul 07 - 02:31 AM
Rapparee 31 Jul 07 - 09:41 AM
Amos 31 Jul 07 - 02:20 PM
MMario 31 Jul 07 - 02:22 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 01:27 AM

How about MOABBA instead. . .


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 07:23 AM

Actually, it was ababaBB.

But it is generally accepted that the use of the same word for a rhyme within a stanza is the mark of a poor poet.

To establish it as correct, the poet needs to have multiple stanzas, with each showing the repeated rhyme scheme. Otherwise, it indicates a lack of effort on the part of the writer.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 07:34 AM

So, what is the next stanza???


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 09:15 AM

I would argue, sir, that replicating the use of a word -- not because of some poor impulse to rhyme, but because it contributes to the architecture of the poem in some luminous way -- is a long-proven and accepted poetic device. "Knocking on my chamber door", and "Bells, bells, bells" spring immediately to mind. As for the desire for multiple stanzas, while this would not be a difficult request to satisfy, I only write on demand for those who give money to the Mudcat, or to me.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 09:26 AM

I prefer the Petrachian sonnet form or, failing that, the Shakespearian. In point of fact, I think that the internal rhyme schemes of Old Irish (Celtic) and Old Norse are quite comme il faut, and the modern propensity to use only end rhymes inhibits poetic development and create boredom for the reader/reciter.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 09:33 AM

I would hold, sir, that the repetition of the repeated rhyme is what gives it its legitimacy.

"Repetition of a sound, syllable, word, phrase, line, stanza, or metrical pattern is a basic unifying device in all poetry. It may reinforce, supplement, or even substitute for meter, the other chief controlling factor in the arrangement of words into poetry. Primitive religious chants from all cultures show repetition developing into cadence and song, with parallelism and repetition still constituting, most frequently as anaphora, an important part in the sophisticated and subtle rhetoric of contemporary liturgies (e.g., the Beatitudes). Frequently also, the exact repetition of words in the same metrical pattern at regular intervals forms a refrain, which serves to set off or divide narrative into segments, as in ballads, or, in Iyric poetry, to indicate shifts or developments of emotion. Such repetitions may serve as commentary, a static point against which the rest of the poem develops, or it may be simply a pleasing sound pattern to fill out a form ("hey downe adowne"). As a unifying device, independent of conventional metrics, repetition is found extensively in free verse, where parallelism (repetition of a grammar pattern) reinforced by the recurrence of actual words and phrases governs the rhythm which helps to distinguish free verse from prose (e.g., Walt Whitman, "I Hear America Singing"; Carl Sandburg, Chicago, The People Yes; Edgar Lee Masters, Spoon River Anthology).
The repetition of similar endings of words or even of identical syllables (rime riche) constitutes rhyme, used generally to bind lines together into larger units or to set up relationships within the same line (internal rhyme). Such repetition, as a tour de force, may be the center of interest in a poem, as Southey's "The Cataract of Lodore" and Belloc's "Tarantella," or may play a large part in establishing the mood of a poem, as in Byron's Don Juan."

"The repetition of a complete line within a poem may be related to the envelope stanza pattern, may be used regularly at the end of each stanza as a refrain, or in other ways. The multiple recurrence of a line at irregular intervals as in Catullus' 64th Ode, or the line "Cras a met qui numquam amavit, quique amavit cras a met," which occurs ten times in the 92 lines of the Pervigilium Veneris, illustrates the effect of a repetition of a specific line apart from a set place as furnished by stanzaic structure. Rarely a line may be repeated entire and immediately as a means of bringing a poem to a close, an extension of the method of bringing a sequence of terza rima to a close with a couplet:


And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.

(Frost, "Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening") "

In a single stanza poem, the re-use of a word as its rhyme is to be avoided. I fear the only way that you may prevent this stain upon your poetic ability is to produce further stanzas. In addition, one should write poetry (here, of all places!) for the sheer joy of expression.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 12:08 PM

Out! Out! Damn Poet!

Take this to a poetry thread. This is a BS thread. Mom sez so.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: MMario
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 12:25 PM

I always thought the line was "Spout SPout damn Poet!"

But that's what I get for thinking...


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 12:36 PM

Note the beauty of the internal rhyme scheme in this extract from
Volvndarkvia
:

at spyrr Nvr
Niara drottinn,
at einn Volvndr
sat i Vlfda/lom;
nottom foro segger,
neglar vro brynior,
scildir blico eirra
vi enn scara mana.

Or this, from Beowulf:

    Gewat a neosian,         syan niht becom,
    hean huses,         hu hit Hringdene
    fter beorege         gebun hfdon.
    Fand a r inne         elinga gedriht
    swefan fter symble;         sorge ne cuon,

    wonsceaft wera.         Wiht unhlo,
    grim ond grdig,         gearo sona ws,
    reoc ond ree,         ond on rste genam
    ritig egna,         anon eft gewat
    hue hremig         to ham faran,

    mid re wlfylle         wica neosan.
    a ws on uhtan         mid rdge
    Grendles gucrft         gumum undyrne;
    a ws fter wiste         wop up ahafen,
    micel morgensweg.   

We don't need no steenking end rhymes when we got rhyme schemes like these!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 12:40 PM

No arguement, Rapaire.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 01:11 PM

Or the old Irish poems:

Duan Amhairghine
Am geth tar na bhfarraige
Am tuile os chinn maighe
Am dord na dathbhe
Am damh seacht mbeann
Am drchtn rotu ngrin
Am an frich torc
Am seabhac a nad i n-aill
Am ard filidheachta
Am laine bhlithibh
Am an t-eo fis
Ca an crann agus an theine ag tuitim faire
Ca an dhamhairina cloch neamh shnaidhite
Am an rin gach uile choirceoige
Am an theine far gach uile chnoic
Am an scath far gach uile chinn
Am an sleagh catha
Am nm tonnag srthintaghav Am agh gach uile dhich dhaman
Ca fios aige conara na grine agus linn na isce
Ca tionl na rinn aige, ceangladh na farraige,
cor i n-eagar na harda, na haibhne, na tatha.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 02:02 PM

Womens always laughed at me and even guys did in the public toilets!

This is the opening line to an email I just received. I feel so sorry for this poor guy that I replied with the name of a good psychiatrist. I know all too well what it is like to be laughed at in public toilets, and I know too that a good psychiatrist can fix him right up. (I also included the name of a good grammarian.)

I did this to make Mom proud. I know she's proud of me, so I used Amos's email address.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 04:45 PM

She has never been proud of fraud, Rapaire; that's the one lesson she tried over and over to teach you, both in and out of public toilets!! "Do not deceive, lie or pretend." I can't count the number of times I watched her haul you off by your left ear, rapping your skull with her thimble, in an effort to get this simple lesson across. Yet here you are quoting Beowulf in the original as though intimate with the tongue. Nay, nay, sirrah, it is never too late. Reform!! Recant!! Repent!! Rethink!! Recast your life in the paths of virtue, I do entreat you!!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 05:52 PM

Why ever would you think that I am NOT familiar with Old Norse, Anglo-Saxon, Old Irish, and other languages? Simply because I choose to converse in the language of this age? Because you cannot read the Kalevala in the original does not mean everyone cannot do so. I, too, remember Mom pulling you along by the ear (the one that's now the longer of the two), rapping your head sharply with her knuckles and saying, "Just because you can't read whaka-tea tumoto or the Yasa of Chingis Khan doesn't mean that Rapaire can't!"


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 06:11 PM

And I remember cleaning up the blood a few times when you two were arguing and she grabbed you each by an ear and slapped your heads together. Not that Mom abused you as kids or anything, mind you. But it was her own unique way of getting your attention.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 06:41 PM

You are being repugnantly evasive, sirrah. This, I know full well, is the curse of librarians -- their professional disease. The world becomes but titles, lines and tomes, and the force and flavor of every place is left far behind; to be able to find is as good as to know, and a reference as good as a conversation. For fie, for fie!! I have also sinned in those false pastures, sir, and know the error of my own ways when I see them being scrawled plain by others. Rest assured, your sins are transparent, your soul forgiven, and Mom duly advised. I suggest you stay out very late tonight, though.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 06:45 PM

HA!!! That was 18520, and no-one noticed!! HA!!! MWAhahahahaha.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 07:13 PM

As we used to say as children, "La vache qui rit!" Ha-ha!

Did I mention that the other day Pat broke the spout off the bar sink faucet set? Came right off in her hand. Water was on at the time, too.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 07:54 PM

That must have been amusing...


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 08:09 PM

I hope the flood was manageable...but you never know when a domestic catastrophe like that will have a silver lining. For us, a whole chain of jammed up plans suspended in no-motion broke loose when a hose section broke and the backspray flooded the bedroom through the window. The repairs forced us to confront renovating the bathroom, and in rapid succession we had the windows replaced, the roof replaced, the exterior stucco and the front yard landscaped, all from the momentum provided by that one catastrophe. So look on the bright side, good Rapaire, if you can but find it.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 08:12 PM

Yes, this may be an opportune time to start rebuilding the entire place, from the foundation on up...


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 08:46 PM

Well, this means a new bar sink and new faucet set -- installed professionally instead of the slap-dash job that was done by the past owner who put it in. Instead of having the faucet set immediately behind the sink we'll have it in the back left corner, and the sink will be installed in such a way as to maximize the use of the space. The sink will be beige-y enamel on cast iron, too -- NOT stainless steel! The p-trap also seems to have split, so that too will be replaced.

I understand that the geyser was interesting while it lasted....


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 02:38 AM

Did someone turn off the water at the street or did Pat just let Idaho run dry and it stopped by itself?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 11:12 AM

Neither. She turned the water off at the faucet. It was a goose-neck spout that snapped off at wear it joins the faucet block and fortunately the faucet still worked. Which is good because the shut-off cocks were immovable by hand -- we had to get the plumber to do that.

The plumber also fixed the spout so it could be used (with cold water only), which will last until we get back from Alberta (yes, we're going to say "Howdy, Peace!") on the 15th. By then the new parts will be in and we can have them installed.

Money...what's that? Why bother with it? I was born without any and I've spent my life the same way....


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 03:11 PM

So. . . when do you leave? And where do you leave that spare key? Amos wants to know. He has a little surprise planned. . .


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 04:29 PM

Damn, Stilly. See if I EVER invite you to plan a raid with me again. Anyway, Mom, I think I have discovered the special Circle of hell designed for weekend warriors like me. It involves trying to dig a trench for, and installing, sprinklers, right behind a row of close-set hedge trees. If you go wild and bust all the roots the trees die, and you lose. If you don't you have to excavat by hand on your hands and knees among the trunk. In this version of the Inferno, just after you get everything filled in and mulched newly, you test the sprinklers and the joints all blow up and you have to start all over again.

In the real world, of course, it all tests perfectly.

But doing it once was a real taste f the best Lucifer has to offer.

Bon Voyage, Rapaire. Don't check in...until you get home.


And say hello to mah main man, Bruce. He is busting them out on stage today. I know he will make them smile and applaud wildly.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 06:30 PM

Wednesday.

And Amos -- there are certain precautions that are taken...I learned them from the entrance to NATO's wartime headquarters...they involve flechettes, nerve gas, and a few little surprises.

Did I ever mention my house came with an oubliette?

And oh yeah, Amos -- the tree's gonna die. It's part of The Plan.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 07:02 PM

I am not surprised that there is an oubliette, which as you know because you are so polyglottistic, mean "The Forgetter". I think I know who it is in your house...


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 10:12 PM

Well, it doubles as a sacrarium. And it's only a little one....


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 11:40 PM

I wasn't putting in a sprinkler system but I did a lot of digging yesterday and today to thin the irises in one (the first of several) flower bed. Oh, my aching back and butt.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 29 Jul 07 - 01:08 AM

Speaking of sacrariums, my lower back feels like a train ran over it.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 29 Jul 07 - 04:11 AM

I have glistened.
Glittered and salivated at and upon a moon.
I have lept a crater to distinguish the fact that you are not me.
I listen to the world of which I left for you and find it too revealing to accomplish that,
I find you in a dream and love every bit of you....
up.........

Can I name you purple ?
I love your lavender hills full of blossoms and coiled flowering pedals with no rain
to feel the weight of water
just pedal drip.

I shout loudly now because I have forgotten what it was that I was all about too jjjoyously.
Dance naked in the rain.
I forgot I was there just the other day..........
dancing jjjoyously in the rain and it created a wet.............
me
It was outstanding, yet wet.
It has to be a ridgid formality,
A BANQUET OF REALITY
a FACINATION OF FALLACY
tO BELIEVE THAT YOU have just become... a one
and I have also been...
a one......
of me.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 29 Jul 07 - 03:25 PM

Now that is text worthy of a sacrarium, indeed. Nice to see your style around here, Reb!! :D


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 29 Jul 07 - 07:03 PM

Lo, how Mother is spurned by her own spawn!! Oh, how sharper than a serpent's tooth, the sting of an ungrateful cyberchiled...



A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Jul 07 - 08:17 PM

You're a cyberchiled? I've been busy as a little bee, getting ready to Travel North To Alberta on Wednesday morn, when we set sail and we won't be too far from the land.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 12:48 AM

We are the cyberchillun of Our Mom, brother Rapaire.

Enjoy the wilds of the West coast.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 01:54 AM

That isn't the west coast, that is east of the Rockies. Though because California takes that wild eastern swing it may actually be west of you (like Reno). Hmmm. Head due north, and when you get there it looks like Rap will be a teensy tiny bit east of you.

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/americas/north_america_ref_2007.pdf


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 09:19 AM

Actually, when we are in Jasper we might be West of him. Let's see:

Jasper: 5252′23″N 11804′56″W
San Diego: 3242′54″N 11709′45″W

Yup. But not in Edmonton: 5334′N 11331′W or Hinton, which is 176 miles west of Edmonton, but we gonna be close to the ol' 117th.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 10:55 AM

SOrry -- I conflated Alberta and BRitish COlumbia. My mind is weary and my back is sore; the sprinkler circuit is done except for one curmudgeonly threaded connector that has decided to leak. Tonight it shall be chastised, given penance, and made pure in the eyes of Man. Mwahahaha.



A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 12:21 PM

Would your sprinkler system stop YOU from a leak?

I think not!

Why would you deprive it of the same?

For shame, Amos! For shame!

Mom wouldn't approve you know.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 03:08 PM

Acheiving eighteen-five-four-five
Makes me glad to be alive,
Though it's hard (as a deep thinker)
To address questions about sprinklers,
Or to create sundry fair devizes
WHile Rapaire anthropomorphicizes!

A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 03:55 PM

Guess what!?

It isn't a tough question. . .

It's raining again. Daily for the last several days. This looks like a doozy getting ready to come over the top of us now.

I was about 1/3 into the lawn mowing last night when it hit and I rand for the garage. I guess it will be like a bad haircut, part of the lawn trimmed, the rest shaggy.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 05:42 PM

I can sorta see, with climate like this 'un
Why you feel no need
For a sprinkler system.

A11


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 08:37 PM

The dog dishes accumulated about 2" in less than an hour. Thunderous rain. Now it is bright and sunny as if nothing had happened.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 09:08 PM

It didn't happen. It's all your imagination.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 01:50 AM

You are imagining it didn't.

It really did.

The dog dish reveals all.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 02:31 AM

That is certainly my dog's opinion.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 09:41 AM

You're right, Amos. I peered into the neighbor's dog dish and All Was Revealed. In the bottom mystic letters formed which read

Feu, flamme, faim, furt, farouche, fume
Fera faillir, froi??ant fort, foy faucher.
Fils de Dent. toute Prouence hume.
Cha?? de regne. enrag ?ang cracher.


which I translated as

Fire, flame, fame, fart, Farouk, fumed
Fair failure, hard rubbings, faith voucher.
Sons of the dentist, all Provence hummed.
Chased the Queen. Angered the fang cracker.


Obviously this refers to failure of the late King Farouk to visit his dentist more often, for if he had he would have made it big as a gospel singer. But instead he made a pass at the Queen and made her dentist mad.

More research showed that the "Sons of the dentist" were a group similar to, but not identical with, the "Sons of the Pioneers." They had a big hit ("Swish, spit, the water") in the south of France in the early 1950s but faded into obscurity after they failed to break into the New York folk scene in 1956. The only member of the group left, Bob Zimmerman, currently delivers pizza and soup in Greenwich Village.

So yes, the dog dish DOES hold The Secret To All Things.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 02:20 PM

A red-letter day! Rapaire has granted me Rightness!! Oh, be still my beating heart!! Calloo, callay!! I am beside myself, which is just as well, as when I get ahead of myself I trip over my own feet. But I am behind me all the way, eh?


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: MMario
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 02:22 PM

Don't go getting above yourself!
But if you are beneath yourself you won't be able to fall.


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