BS: Iraqi Museum an inside job?

Subject: BS: Iraqi Museum an inside job?
From: DougR
Date: 06 May 03 - 02:27 AM

The Fox News Network reported today that the antiquities missing from the national museum in Baghdad were not taken by looters. It is now believed that they disappeared with the help of employees at the museum who had ties with Saddam's regime. Do you think this is probable?

DougR

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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi Museum an inside job?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 06 May 03 - 03:49 AM

Doug, that was suspected from the beginning. Many of the most valuable items were apparently locked in the museum's vaults before the start of the invasion. The vaults were later found to be empty, with no sign of forced entry. The fact that it's finally gotten onto Fox "News" Network suggests to me that a scapegoat will soon be forthcoming.

My guess is that many of the "looted" treasures may have been "pre-ordered" by wealthy art and antiquities collectors around the globe...most likely ones that make a habit of not asking difficult questions about the sources of their collections. I'll ask my friend who specializes in Near Eastern archaeology if he knows anything.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi Museum an inside job?
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 May 03 - 03:51 AM

Well, according to this report it's true, but it's not exactly new news. I found one referenced article about it on google from April 17th on the Pittsburgh postgazette.com site.

It seems news orgs. cannot agree, though, so who knows? I also found an article by CBS dated April 30th which said the stuff was still missing.

The good news, if it is true, is that yes, the Museum was looted, but it seems to have mostly been modern stuff which was taken, i.e. desks, chairs, office equipment, etc.

Let's hope it really is mostly intact.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi Museum an inside job?
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 May 03 - 03:52 AM

Ah, missed your posting, Mark. It will be interesting to hear what your friend has to say.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi Museum an inside job?
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 06 May 03 - 10:04 AM

I saw a small item in last Sunday's paper saying that the Museum has opened again, displaying items returned by staff who took some things away to protect them. It didn't say whether the items were the spectacular world heritage treasures (cynic, aren't I?)

Strange that this good news was only a tiny par on an inside page.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi Museum an inside job?
From: GUEST,native
Date: 06 May 03 - 10:12 AM

jessica, the hero has conveniately got amnesia, cant remember what realy happened, will now be the mouth piece of the goverment. The news stories from Iraq are now beening found to be incorrect, this is all cencored news.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi Museum an inside job?
From: Beccy
Date: 06 May 03 - 04:50 PM

Bad Americans! Bad! Bad! Bad!

Evil Americans! Evil! Evil! Evil!

You folks are like a broken record (hey- maybe now this should move up to the music section:-)

Beccy

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi Museum an inside job?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 06 May 03 - 08:02 PM

My guess is that the artifacts were flogged to Japan and Germany. BBC reports which included television interviews with the Museum's curators indicated that a lot of he best was missing and a number of pieces of statuary, etc., destroyed (photos of the damage shown).

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi Museum an inside job?
From: Peg
Date: 06 May 03 - 11:37 PM

um, Beccy why are you screaming about Americans???

NO ONE in this thread so far has suggested Americans had anything to do with this...

You are the one who sounds like a broken record; in fact you aren't even making any sense or commenting on anything related to this thread!

But I digress, I actually have something to say that is germane to the topic...ahem...do these articles say anything about any claims being made for the stolen items? will the Iraqi government (or what remains of it) attempt to investigate what has become of these prized antiquities?

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi Museum an inside job?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 06 May 03 - 11:58 PM

The U. S. announced today that it would actively seek to get the artifacts back. I am afraid, however, that during the last days of military action, much was trucked out of the country. About one billion dollars is missing from the treasury, apparently carried away by Saddam's sons just before the bombs fell on Baghdad. Some believe that the money got to Syria, others that it is still hidden in Iraq.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi Museum an inside job?
From: DougR
Date: 07 May 03 - 12:27 AM

Peg: I doubt it, since there is no longer an Iraqi government.

You simply must keep abreast of the times, Peg! Saddam and his government is no more!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi Museum an inside job?
From: Peg
Date: 07 May 03 - 01:08 AM

Doug; I said nothing about Saddam. I said "what's left of it."

Hey, I thought your boy Dubya was going to "liberate the Iraqi people"???? I thought he was going to restore order to Iraq? What happened?

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi Museum an inside job?
From: DougR
Date: 07 May 03 - 01:46 AM

Ok, I've had it! Here you guys were so exercised because the antiquities in Iraq were missing and the U. S. Armed Forces were severly criticized because they were not protecting them (forget the fact that at the time they were busy protecting their lives). So the news sources (not just Fox) report that it might have been an inside job, I post the news, and what does it draw? A pitiful 12 responses! Whassamata you guys? If you can't bash the U. S. it not worth posting?

And Peg, go get yourself an Ice Cream Soda and relax, will you? You are a nice lady and I hate to see you getting all riled up. For the record, there is "nothing" left of it!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi Museum an inside job?
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 07 May 03 - 08:28 AM

This morning I read the same article Katlaughing refers to above -- in the (on-line) Chicago Tribune. I also read an article at The Baltimore Sun saying that US customs has caught several stolen Iraqui articles being brought into this country.

I admit I'm a confirmed cynic (54 years of experience with government pronouncements) -- my first thought on reading the Chicago Tribune article was the possibility of a coverup.

Oh, there was a mention that they might be able to find some of the antiquities Saddam looted from Kuwait.

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi Museum an inside job?
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 07 May 03 - 06:58 PM

Gosh, cynical soul that I am, I thought all the missing items might end up in the Smithsonian for "safe keeping"! :)

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi Museum an inside job?
From: Walking Eagle
Date: 07 May 03 - 11:07 PM

I am myself a cynic, but I'll throw this into the fray. Do any of you think that it's possible that Saddam paid, or threatened, 'supporters' to start looting treasures,oil pumping machinery, nuclear files, and hospitals etc. if the situation was right AND the rest of the population just joined in? I have that in the back of my noggin. Sort of a strange scorched earth situation.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi Museum an inside job?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 07 May 03 - 11:13 PM

If I were walking by the museum and there was a war going on and someone left their Henry Moore bronze figure just lying around in the yard I'd probablt take it home for safe keeping.

Is looting the museum of Iraqs historical antiquities by Saddam's followers any more far fetched than... say... driving away with a billion dollars American in three tractor/trailers on the morning before the war began?

Don

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi Museum an inside job?
From: DougR
Date: 08 May 03 - 02:18 AM

Walking Eagle: I suppose that's possible alright.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi Museum an inside job?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 08 May 03 - 06:09 AM

Seems more likely to me that somebody circulated a catalog of the museum's collection to a list of wealthy collectors, in the US and around the world, with a notation that the pieces might possibly become available in the near future--no doubt with "suggested" prices--and invited people to place their orders. A golden opportunity...so to speak. Oh, and Doug, lest you think I've forsworn bashing our government...I'm sure the list contained some of Bush's cronies, corporate contributors, and perhaps even cabinet members. (I do love alliteration, don't you?)

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi Museum an inside job?
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 08 May 03 - 10:01 AM

great to see I'm in good company.

I heard a news article tonight that the great majority of the items from the Museum are back. Good if so, but a lot was damaged & I assume the most valuable are still missing (by now no doubt they're on someone's wall with the curtins well drawn).

I'm going thru one of my archaeology periods at the moment, borrowing heavily from that section of the library & have been re-reading yet again about the trade in stolen antiquities. As someone said tomb robbing/spoils to the victor is probably the world's oldest profession.

Robbing museums/looting hospitals is certainly on line with burning oil wells.

sandra (one of many cynics)

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi Museum an inside job?
From: GUEST,fretless
Date: 08 May 03 - 11:52 AM

The International Federation of Library Associations has just released a report indicating that the situation in Iraq's libraries is perhaps worse than the recent and optimistic reports from the Iraqi National Museum: http://www.ifla.org/VI/4/admin/iraq0205.htm

The conflicting reports from Iraq make it difficult if not impossible to know the actual status of the antiquities there. At the same time various news sources were offering the hopeful report cited by Sandra above, the Chicago Tribune was reporting that first millennium BC/BCE Assyrian sites were being attacked by looters who were carving ancient bas reliefs with chain saws for easy transport out of the country. A UNESCO assessment team was scheduled to arrive in Baghdad today. Perhaps their report will help clarify the situation.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi Museum an inside job?
From: leprechaun
Date: 09 May 03 - 02:06 AM

It's a shame we'll never get those huge Buddha statues back the Taliban blew up in Afghanistan. We should have invaded those bastards two years sooner to save precious antiquities from being destroyed by intolerant zealots.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi Museum an inside job?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 09 May 03 - 02:38 AM

What did you expect? Just tell someone you are going to kill them, and watch them get 'weird'... hmmmmmmm?

Violence evokes karma squared.

ttr