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BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis

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DANCE MYSELF TO SLEEP
THE GOOD SHIP WET


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outfidel 21 May 03 - 05:31 PM
Herga Kitty 21 May 03 - 05:45 PM
Desdemona 21 May 03 - 06:40 PM
Stilly River Sage 21 May 03 - 08:14 PM
outfidel 21 May 03 - 11:58 PM
Kaleea 22 May 03 - 02:15 AM
Seamus Kennedy 22 May 03 - 02:37 AM
alanabit 22 May 03 - 03:54 AM
mooman 22 May 03 - 04:04 AM
Dave Bryant 22 May 03 - 04:37 AM
GUEST 22 May 03 - 07:11 AM
GUEST 22 May 03 - 07:52 AM
Beccy 22 May 03 - 09:26 AM
M.Ted 22 May 03 - 11:30 AM
alanabit 22 May 03 - 01:11 PM
Stilly River Sage 22 May 03 - 03:23 PM
Gareth 22 May 03 - 07:14 PM
SINSULL 22 May 03 - 07:56 PM
GUEST 22 May 03 - 08:05 PM
Teribus 23 May 03 - 07:01 AM
catspaw49 23 May 03 - 11:23 AM
Metchosin 23 May 03 - 12:44 PM
Grab 23 May 03 - 02:06 PM
SINSULL 23 May 03 - 09:22 PM
McGrath of Harlow 23 May 03 - 09:41 PM
McGrath of Harlow 23 May 03 - 09:42 PM
Banjer 24 May 03 - 03:45 AM
Metchosin 24 May 03 - 04:35 AM
Gareth 24 May 03 - 04:46 AM
McGrath of Harlow 24 May 03 - 07:38 AM
M.Ted 24 May 03 - 03:41 PM
McGrath of Harlow 24 May 03 - 07:40 PM
M.Ted 24 May 03 - 10:58 PM
McGrath of Harlow 25 May 03 - 05:27 PM
Little Hawk 25 May 03 - 05:40 PM
outfidel 26 May 03 - 04:30 AM
Banjer 26 May 03 - 10:36 AM
McGrath of Harlow 26 May 03 - 01:41 PM
Joe_F 26 May 03 - 06:06 PM
McGrath of Harlow 26 May 03 - 06:21 PM
Doug_Remley 27 May 03 - 12:31 AM
outfidel 27 May 03 - 09:52 AM
Wolfgang 27 May 03 - 10:18 AM
M.Ted 27 May 03 - 02:27 PM
M.Ted 27 May 03 - 06:03 PM
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Banjer 28 May 03 - 03:51 PM
McGrath of Harlow 28 May 03 - 05:27 PM
M.Ted 28 May 03 - 06:22 PM
Gareth 28 May 03 - 07:13 PM
Banjer 28 May 03 - 09:24 PM
M.Ted 29 May 03 - 12:18 AM
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GUEST,STEVE 04 Jul 04 - 12:47 PM

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Subject: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: outfidel
Date: 21 May 03 - 05:31 PM

Apologies if this has been posted already...

Sesame Street breaks Iraqi POWs

Some helpful advice on torture


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 21 May 03 - 05:45 PM

According to the Today programme on Radio 4 yesterday, Psych Ops were hoping that just annoying prisoners by playing them Sesame Street would encourage them to divulge useful information about international terrorists etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: Desdemona
Date: 21 May 03 - 06:40 PM

Personally, I *love* Seasame Street, and would much prefer a rousing chorus of "C Is For Cookie" to most of what's played in the mainstream.

That said, a couple replays of the Barney song & I'd sing like a canary!


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 May 03 - 08:14 PM

Sesame Street has some great songs from Joe Raposo, including the theme song. Here's a list of a few of them. Personally, I really loved "Put Down the Duckie (If you Want to Play the Saxophone)." And lots of others. "Oh, How I Miss My X:" the one with the shark signing about brushing his teeth, a couple by Smokey Robinson, James Taylor, Paul Simon, so many good performances on there.

My Dad, the folksong purist, thought it might be torture many years ago when I told him I had a tape I wanted him to listen to. It was composed of songs I'd recorded over months of watching Sesame Street with my kids and hopping up to record just certain songs. He was charmed and entertianed by what we played for him. Sesame Street isn't just for kids.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: outfidel
Date: 21 May 03 - 11:58 PM

Sesame Street is pretty good to my ears, but Barney & Metallica would fly me over the cuckoo's nest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: Kaleea
Date: 22 May 03 - 02:15 AM

Sesame Street is too entertaining, & filled with lots of terrific songs--how could it be torture? I'm with Desdemona--make 'em sit throug a few hours of Barney! Or perhaps a few hours of the congressional hearings on __(pick a subject)_____.   
    But if you really want to torture the terrorists, do what the Sioux nations did to "Custer" or what was left of him, after the "Battle of the Little Bighorn" or as the ancestors called it, "the battle where the girl saved her brother"(that's another fine story)--hand the terrorists over to the women relatives of those murdered by the terrorists. It would not be reccommended "viewing" for the weak of stomach or faint of heart.


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 22 May 03 - 02:37 AM

Jerry Springer.

Seamuas


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: alanabit
Date: 22 May 03 - 03:54 AM

I am afraid that this has bypassed my sense of humour. Sleep deprivation and the other forms of bullying are exactly what human rights activists used to protest about when they were practised by the KGB in Soviet "Mental Hospitals". So it is funny when we do it to Arabs in funny clothes, is it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: mooman
Date: 22 May 03 - 04:04 AM

I'm with you on this one Alan.

moo


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 22 May 03 - 04:37 AM

At least they're not being forced to listen to Kazoos, Bodhrans, Banjos, and Shaky Eggs as well as watching bad Morris Dancers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: GUEST
Date: 22 May 03 - 07:11 AM

As I read it - they are also being subjected to Metallica heavey metal type stuff as well as Sesame Street & that dinosaur thing. The intention being to disorient them because it it unfamiliar to them. What a foul perversion when music is used as a weapon.
(please note that "Metallica is not music" will NOT be a dignified response)

Kris


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: GUEST
Date: 22 May 03 - 07:52 AM

If Iraq had used the same type of tactics, there would have been protests from the US government and military. We would have been told that this treatment constitutes torture and reminded of the Geneva Convention.


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: Beccy
Date: 22 May 03 - 09:26 AM

alanbit- perhaps you'd rather they employed nastier means? I'd say that torturing them via Barney and Metallica was, albeit bad, pretty damned tame. Though I must admit that it'd only take 20 minutes of Barney's schlock to send me over the edge.

Beccy


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: M.Ted
Date: 22 May 03 - 11:30 AM

Torture is torture--using "cute" ways of torture is a calculated and cynical device that is aimed at making it easier for us to accept--As to the idea that it is OK because the damage isn't permanent, that is another trick arguement-- remember that anything that does permanent damage is useless as a means of torture because it cannot be repeated--It is also worth noting that these people have been accused of any particular crime--


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: alanabit
Date: 22 May 03 - 01:11 PM

I think you have missed something along the line here Beccy. I despise torture by anyone, anytime, anywhere because it is the tool of bullying cowards. Are you trying to tell me that if this form of torture is dropped that the "interrogators" will be obliged to adopt another form? I note with interest the United States reluctance to be subject to international courts of human rights. This is a rather baffling position for a country which is proud of its constitution as a milestone in the establishment of standards of basic human decency. Talking about torture in terms of a flippant debate about what forms of music we like or dislike is trivialising brutality. Sleep deprivation and deliberate traumatisation of anyone is brutal, cowardly and despicable. I like it even less when we do it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 May 03 - 03:23 PM

This is what the article said:

    The US's Psychological Operations Company (Psy Ops) said the aim was to break a prisoner's resistance through sleep deprivation and playing music that was culturally offensive to them.

    However, human rights organisation, Amnesty International, said such tactics may constitute torture - and coalition forces could be in breach of the Geneva Convention.

    Sergeant Mark Hadsell, of Psy Ops, told Newsweek magazine: "These people haven't heard heavy metal.

    "They can't take it. If you play it for 24 hours, your brain and body functions start to slide, your train of thought slows down and your will is broken. That's when we come in and talk to them."

    Sgt Hadsell's favourites are said to be 'Bodies' from the XXX film soundtrack and Metallica's 'Enter Sandman'.

    The theme tune from the US children's programme Sesame Street and songs from the purple singing dinosaur Barney are also on their hit list.


If they don't speak English, how can the songs be "culturally offensive?" By the scale that is used, or the dopey Barney voice? I didn't take this seriously, actually, and still don't. No one said anything about volume, and if I'm tired enough, I can sleep with the music on. I just didn't and still don't give much credence to these stories.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: Gareth
Date: 22 May 03 - 07:14 PM

Torture is Torture - And should not be practiced.

Mind you it reminds me of a Gary Lawson cartoon -

Top half - The Pearly Gates - St Peter saying "Welcome to Heaven, and here is your Harp"

Bottom half - Hells Gates - The Devil saying " Welcome to Hell, and here is your accordian"

Gareth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: SINSULL
Date: 22 May 03 - 07:56 PM

Anyone remember the movie/spy spoof in which a Russian agent is tortured with a playing "Itsy Bitsy Teeny Weenie Yellow Polka Dot Bikini" over and over? Truth is stranger than fiction.


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: GUEST
Date: 22 May 03 - 08:05 PM

if you really want to make me scream just play Rap music. I would tell you anything you wanted to know, just to get it switched off....


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: Teribus
Date: 23 May 03 - 07:01 AM

Alanabit:

"I note with interest the United States reluctance to be subject to international courts of human rights."

Along with about a surprisingly large number of other countries.


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 May 03 - 11:23 AM

"Yeah man, I'd never sell out my country! I wouldn't do it, no way man. I would NEVER sell my country out........uh,say...What are they doing with that other guy?..............They got his pants down............What are they heating up that lead for over there?..............Aw, it doesn't matter, I would never sell out, no way man..........uh, what are they putting that funnel in his ass for?.........That's OK, I would never......Hey, they're not going to pour that hot lead in the funnel in his ass are they?..............WOOOWWWEEEEEE!!! THEY DID!!! GEEZIZ MAN...........I'll tell you all the secrets....I'll MAKE UP secrets man.........Just don't give me the hot lead enema.........

Yeah, so that's it ain't it? If you can take the hot lead enema, you can cast the first stone............"


................LENNY BRUCE, Stand Up Philosopher
**********************************************************************

Torture is torture.....Barney or the Hot Lead Enema.....

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: Metchosin
Date: 23 May 03 - 12:44 PM

If by international courts of human rights, you are referring to the more recently formed International Criminal Court, which is mandated to prosecute individuals, not states, for war crimes etc., the ICC enjoys substantial and widespread international support.

The Rome Statute was adopted at the Rome Conference on July 17, 1998 by an overwhelming majority of states. 120 states voted in favour of the Statute, 21 abstained and 7 voted against.

Those voting in favour included all of the "G-8" countries with the exception of the United States (United Kingdom, France, Russia, Germany, Japan, Italy and Canada). Those voting against, included the USA, India, Israel, Bahrain, Qatar, China and Vietnam. There were 21 abstentions.

The following countries as of 2003, have now ratified, including some that had originally abstained:

Albania, Andorra Antigua & Barbuda, Argentina Australia Austria

Barbados Belgium Belize Benin Bolivia Bosnia-Herzegovina Botswana Brazil Bulgaria

Cambodia Canada Central African Republic Colombia Costa Rica Croatia Cyprus

The Democratic Republic of Congo Denmark Djibouti Dominica East Timor Ecuador Estonia

Fiji Finland France Gabon Gambia Ghana Greece Honduras Hungary Iceland Ireland Italy

Jordan Republic of Korea Latvia Lesotho Liechtenstein Lithuania Luxembourg

The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia Mali Malawi Malta Marshall Islands Mauritius Mongolia

Namibia Nauru Netherlands New Zealand Niger Nigeria Norway Panama Paraguay Peru Poland Portugal

Romania Saint Vincent and the Grenadines Samoa San Marino Senegal Sierra Leone Slovakia Slovenia South Africa Spain Sweden Switzerland

Tajikistan Tanzania Trinidad and Tobago Uganda United Kingdom Uruguay Venezuela The Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and Zambia. (the list may not be absolutely complete)

Teribus, judging from the list, I don't see anything suprising regarding the number countries that voted against it or continued to abstain.


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: Grab
Date: 23 May 03 - 02:06 PM

Teribus, for sure. Just look at the list: Afghanistan (now defunct), Iraq (now defunct), North Korea, Zimbabwe, Libya, China...

It's nice to know that the US government considers itself to be a member in good standing of such a group, all with such reputations in the field of human rights (in the violation thereof).

Graham.


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: SINSULL
Date: 23 May 03 - 09:22 PM

Damn it all, Spaw. It took me years to get that image out of my head. Now it is front and center AGAIN. DAMN!


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 May 03 - 09:41 PM

That sounds like the kind of company a regime that goes in for torture should expect to keep. Of course they could say the same.

Just because it can be made to sound cute doesn't mean it's not torture. Dripping water on the head sounds mild enough doesn't it?

Regardless of whether America subscribed to the international criminal court America or not shouldn't make any difference. It is the duty of the American court system to war crimes and deal with them, which would mean the ICC wouldn't be involved. (Even in such cases as Lieut Calley, serving just a few months house arrest as the fall guy for the My Lai massacre.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 May 03 - 09:42 PM

That sounds like the kind of company a regime that goes in for torture should expect to keep. Of course they could say the same.

Just because it can be made to sound cute doesn't mean it's not torture. Dripping water on the head sounds mild enough doesn't it?

Regardless of whether America subscribed to the international criminal court or not shouldn't make any difference. It is the duty of the American leagl system to investigate war crimes and deal with them, which would mean the ICC wouldn't be involved. (Even in such cases as Lieut Calley, serving just a few months house arrest as the fall guy for the My Lai massacre.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: Banjer
Date: 24 May 03 - 03:45 AM

Seems to me that many are missing the bigger picture here.

Rather than use odd music (if some of what they use can be called music) as a means of collecting important information in the roundup of international terrorists, should we just turn them all loose and wait until they strike other innocent peoples causing high fatality rates? (would it be more acceptable after a major suicide bombing to be able to say, 'Instead of playing Barney to him for hours on end we released him so he could do this because it seemed more humane'?)

If playing some Barney or Metalica noise for a period of time will save hundreds or even thousands of lives, what is wrong with it? It's not like using medieval tortures or reviving the Spanish Inquisitions.

I think a lot of the bleeding hearts need to get their priorities sorted out here!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: Metchosin
Date: 24 May 03 - 04:35 AM

Banjer, torture will always find its own justification. Regardless of the crimes they are alleged to have committed (and more so because the US military is imprisoning children), transparent, due process of law should be the order of the day for any civilized nation. The use of torture as an expediency does little to set the US apart from al-Qa'ida and their ilk.

Whether you like it or not, America has been regarded as a moral beacon of hope and possibility for the world. Standards of conduct cannot be discarded lightly. The deadly thing is that when you throw away your integrity, you can't get it back.


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: Gareth
Date: 24 May 03 - 04:46 AM

"Hey, they're not going to pour that hot lead in the funnel in his ass are they?..............WOOOWWWEEEEEE!!! THEY DID!!! GEEZIZ MAN...........I'll tell you all the secrets....I'll MAKE UP secrets man.........Just don't give me the hot lead enema........."

Leaving out any question of morality, I would question wether torture is that effective as a means of gathering information, as opposed to misinformation.

Gareth


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 May 03 - 07:38 AM

It's not like using medieval tortures or reviving the Spanish Inquisitions.

Different technique, same mentality. Use whatever means necessary, and it's all right, because the intention is to achieve the greater good. Same mentality as Al Qaida, for that matter. "You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs..."

If they are using this technique rather than electric shock machines or red hot pinchers it's because they think it works better and they can get away with it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: M.Ted
Date: 24 May 03 - 03:41 PM

Morbid bastard that I am, I have read contemporary and first person accounts of the Inquisitions, and note that, not withstanding Banjers optimistic endorsement, there was not a lot of truth uncovered. People who are being tortured generally tell the torturers what they want to hear, even if they have to lie to do it.

You only need to read recent headlines to see how how ineffective this new torture has been at reducing terrorism. Many false alarms, coupled with a truly frightening wave of completely unanticipated bombings---


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 May 03 - 07:40 PM

I'd be inclined to think that the latest wave of terrorism in Saudi Arabia and Morocco may very likely have been anticipated by the USA, and in fact seen as quite desirable, in the complicated game that is being played out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: M.Ted
Date: 24 May 03 - 10:58 PM

It wouldn't have been a difficult to anticipate the recent wave of terrorism. The current administration here has been more than a little embarassed by them, however. They have claimed a lot of decisive vitories in the war on terrorism, and these recent bombings show that their efforts, and the claims, are overstated--


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 May 03 - 05:27 PM

Which, in the current of play, just means that this reinforces the need to do even more and take even more powers.

A bit like the "war on drugs" - failure just reinforces the will to continue with failing policies. Because, basically, it's not about winning, it's about using the situation as a way of building up a power structure.


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 May 03 - 05:40 PM

Modern American culture tortures me and millions of other people every day with ceaseless advertising...TV commercials, radio commercials, junk mail, spam, etc. I manage to avoid most of it by not watching TV and not listening to the radio.

It also tortures hundreds of millions of people daily with unnecessary and systematic poverty, while it builds new superweapons.

Such political/cultural systems can expect to have implacable enemies, and will not succeed in eliminating them by resorting to further acts of barbarism in the name of "security". There is no security for oppressors and tyrants, whichever side of the grand game they are on.

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: outfidel
Date: 26 May 03 - 04:30 AM

I posted the original article, and I think it's pretty sick what Psy Ops is doing. "A Clockwork Orange," anyone? Barney or Beethoven's Ninth -- it's still evil.

And now, A Message from the Ministry of Homeland Security


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: Banjer
Date: 26 May 03 - 10:36 AM

You only need to read recent headlines to see how how ineffective this new torture has been at reducing terrorism

Is there not a chance that if the US had not taken the initiative to stamp out terrorism that the destruction could have been much greater than what has already occured??

The irony of it all is that while many are opposed to everything our government does, it is largely due to the actions of our military that enable you to voice your opinions freely here and anywhere else you choose!

God Bless America!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 May 03 - 01:41 PM

Is there not a chance that if the US had not taken the initiative to stamp out terrorism that the destruction could have been much greater than what has already occured??

Anything is possible. Except there doesn't seem much evidence of what I'd call a serious attempt to stamp about terrorism. Initiating a series of wars against countries where people wear turbans and so forth doesn't really seem too relevant a response in itself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: Joe_F
Date: 26 May 03 - 06:06 PM

I read in the papers that during the siege at Waco, Texas, the inhabitants of the settlement, before being burnt alive, were bombarded with continuous rock and roll. I wonder if the playlist is available, and whether royalties must be paid for a performance of that kind.


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 May 03 - 06:21 PM

Didn't the Mexicans try something like that at the Alamo? Supposed to make them surrender. Didn't work too well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: Doug_Remley
Date: 27 May 03 - 12:31 AM

Yes, McGrath, but that was Mariachi music. Oddly enough the new military policy is to answer the questions, as tactics and strategy are so fluid. Yet "zealous" interrogation is still used to "assure" validity. "Hey, guys, did I tell you my grandmother's maiden name? Hey! It's true not another fingernail!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: outfidel
Date: 27 May 03 - 09:52 AM

Is there not a chance that if the US had not taken the initiative to stamp out terrorism that the destruction could have been much greater than what has already occured??

We *may* have saved the lives of innocent Americans.

We *definitely* have taken the lives of innocent Iraqis.

The irony of it all is that while many are opposed to everything our government does, it is largely due to the actions of our military that enable you to voice your opinions freely here and anywhere else you choose!

Another irony is that those who are most pro-mililtary in this country are also the ones most likely to try to silence dissent. Just ask the Dixie Chicks and Clear Channel.

God Bless America!!

Yes, and may He forgive us our trespasses, too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: Wolfgang
Date: 27 May 03 - 10:18 AM

Jericho comes to my mind too.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: M.Ted
Date: 27 May 03 - 02:27 PM

By your tone, Banjer, it sounds like you don't like free speech, and by my reckoning, that makes you one of the enemy--

Sounds like you are eager to take away the very things that our constitution guarantees, and that our flag stands for--You are one of those fifth columnist types that tears down America by whispering lies of every kind behind the backs of the decent, hardworking people that make our country the strongest and wealthiest in the world. People like you praise democracy with their fingers crossed behind their back, and wait for the opportunity to crush every innocent mother and child under the heel of totalitarian oppression.

I've got news for you and your low down, belly-crawling kind! Americans everywhere recognize you for what you are, and we are not going to put up with it!! We'll root you out of every corner, dig you out of every rat hole, and shine the light of freedom on you so that the whole world can see you for the dishonest, double dealing, freedom haters that you are!


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: M.Ted
Date: 27 May 03 - 06:03 PM

Oh, sorry, meant to post that to Inflamatory patriotic rhetoric-meaningless.alt.


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: Gareth
Date: 27 May 03 - 07:29 PM

And there I was M.Ted thinking that you were ****** in disguise !!

Gareth

Anyway I confess to anything, just don't play "Tie a Yellow Ribbon .." anymore.


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: Banjer
Date: 28 May 03 - 03:51 PM

By your tone, Banjer, it sounds like you don't like free speech, and by my reckoning, that makes you one of the enemy--

Sounds like you are eager to take away the very things that our constitution guarantees, and that our flag stands for--You are one of those fifth columnist types that tears down America by whispering lies of every kind behind the backs of the decent, hardworking people that make our country the strongest and wealthiest in the world. People like you praise democracy with their fingers crossed behind their back, and wait for the opportunity to crush every innocent mother and child under the heel of totalitarian oppression.



If this is how you interpret it, then perhaps YOU and yours are the problem here :)

I am all for free speech and unlike many here have spent time in the US Army, helping to defend everyone's right to express themselves as they wish.

I simply stated that it struck me as ironic that it is because of the efforts of our military that we still have the right to speak our minds, even those who would speak out against our military are able to be heard without fear of retribution.

I've got news for you and your low down, belly-crawling kind! Americans everywhere recognize you for what you are, and we are not going to put up with it!! We'll root you out of every corner, dig you out of every rat hole, and shine the light of freedom on you so that the whole world can see you for the dishonest, double dealing, freedom haters that you are!

As for your last comments, bring it on friend, I can change your mind in a heartbeat!

and BTW, should your parents ever decide to get married, give them my best!! Have a nice day!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 May 03 - 05:27 PM

"helping to defend everyone's right to express themselves as they wish"

Sometimes no doubt true, and sometimes equally clearly the reverse. As with other armies.


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: M.Ted
Date: 28 May 03 - 06:22 PM

Now you know how people respond when they have that Mom, God and the Flag stuff thrown at them from out of nowhere--sorry about that, I thought I made it obvious that I was joking-

A small point perhaps, but with all their resources, the military have no weapons for defending the Constitution. They can fight off every invader, and we can still have our rights taken away from us.


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: Gareth
Date: 28 May 03 - 07:13 PM

Actually - M.Ted I saw the joke and realised that you were only joshing - trouble is some 'Catters seem to have had thier intelligence/sense of humour surgically amputated !!!

Gareth


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: Banjer
Date: 28 May 03 - 09:24 PM

M. Ted, I apologize, I didn't catch the joke...


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: M.Ted
Date: 29 May 03 - 12:18 AM

No problem Banjer--Humor can blend into the background in an internet discussion thread. Now, if we'd been face to face, my intent would have been obvious, since I would have been standing on a table with a lampshade on my head. I know you caught my intent, Gareth, and I appreciate it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: TIA
Date: 29 May 03 - 12:34 AM

As hard as it is for military folks to take, they are, in fact, defending our right to speak out against them. Good people died defending your right to speak, so shut the hell up. Now, before you get all pissed off, don't assume you know my connections to the military.

And, remember, the Geneva convention is relative. Our torture is a whole different thing from their torture. And our WMDs are a whole different thing from their WMDs. And our armed forays across international borders are different form their armed forays across international borders.


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: Julie B
Date: 29 May 03 - 01:13 PM

Torture is still torture whatever form it takes. I agree that those using "music torture" may well choose this method as they know it will not be "taken seriously" and they have a very good chance of getting away with it, as our whole society condones torture by music.

Without making light of serious torture, I too feel extremely uncomfortable in the increasing number of environments where music is forced upon me. You may say that I have a choice, that I can simply avoid those places where the unwanted music is played. But nowadays that just about means not being able to visit any pub, town centre, supermarket, leisure centre, swimming pool. There are even town centres (e.g. Chorley Lancashire) where musak is deliberately piped into the open air spaces around the town centre. And then of course there are the cars that compete to have the loudest drum and bass ...

Our Governments deliberately play down the huge effect that unwanted noise has on our lives, as any acknowledgement of the truth, that persistent unwanted noise is torture, would inevitably lead to fetters being placed on commerce and industry. How could any new airport be built if the (plainly obvious) truth that aircraft make a very loud noise and noise upsets people and keeps them awake were officially admitted? How could major motorways be built anywhere near residential areas? How could pubs and bars be allowed to install loudspeakers that can be heard a mile away?

So, the official pretence is that unwanted noise is nothing more than a minor annoyance to over-sensitive individuals. The truth, of course, is that it can be extremely harmful - psychologically and physically (i.e. people go deaf). Myself I look forward to the day when a generation of young shop staff sucessfully sue their employers for damaging their hearing in their place of work with unnecessarily loud music. By my reckoning, Gap and Virgin staff will be some of the first...

Julie B


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Subject: RE: BS: Music as torture: Sesame Street & Iraqis
From: GUEST,STEVE
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 12:47 PM

BERTS BLANKET; PUT DOWN THE DUCKY AND BORN TO ADD ARE GREAT EXAMPLES OF MUSIC TO PLEASE ADULTS WHILST BRINGING UP KIDS.
GOD BLESS THE CTW AND ALL WHO WORK FOR HER, THEY HAVE SPENT OVER 30 YEARS PRODUCING GREAT SONGS AND GREAT CHILDREN'S/PARENT ENTERTAINMENT.


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