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Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle

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mousethief 22 May 03 - 01:10 AM
Joe Offer 22 May 03 - 01:43 AM
Bob Bolton 22 May 03 - 01:45 AM
Seamus Kennedy 22 May 03 - 02:06 AM
Amos 22 May 03 - 02:58 AM
Willie-O 22 May 03 - 08:36 AM
Naemanson 22 May 03 - 08:51 AM
Rapparee 22 May 03 - 09:07 AM
GUEST 22 May 03 - 09:31 AM
Bill D 22 May 03 - 11:39 AM
Jim Colbert 22 May 03 - 12:55 PM
GUEST 22 May 03 - 01:00 PM
GUEST,Ron Olesko 22 May 03 - 01:53 PM
GUEST,New York City 22 May 03 - 02:49 PM
GUEST,Alexander 22 May 03 - 03:18 PM
GUEST 22 May 03 - 03:19 PM
GUEST,Ron Olesko 22 May 03 - 03:27 PM
GUEST,Ron Olesko 22 May 03 - 03:28 PM
GUEST 22 May 03 - 04:57 PM
GUEST,Ron Olesko 22 May 03 - 04:59 PM
mousethief 22 May 03 - 09:07 PM
Joe Offer 22 May 03 - 09:30 PM
PoppaGator 22 May 03 - 10:20 PM
Seamus Kennedy 22 May 03 - 10:22 PM
mousethief 23 May 03 - 09:38 AM
GUEST,Ron Olesko 23 May 03 - 09:50 AM
GUEST,Strollin' Johnny 23 May 03 - 10:47 AM
Seamus Kennedy 23 May 03 - 03:11 PM
GUEST,Ron Olesko 23 May 03 - 03:16 PM
Jim Colbert 23 May 03 - 04:05 PM
GUEST,New York City 23 May 03 - 04:54 PM
mousethief 24 May 03 - 03:21 AM
Bill D 24 May 03 - 10:00 AM
mousethief 24 May 03 - 11:13 AM
GUEST,George Bernard Shawshank Redemption 24 May 03 - 01:29 PM
GUEST 24 May 03 - 08:23 PM
Mark Cohen 24 May 03 - 10:03 PM
mousethief 24 May 03 - 11:12 PM
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Subject: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: mousethief
Date: 22 May 03 - 01:10 AM

I've just checked two CD's out of the library. The one is "Shining My Flashlight at the Moon" by Christine Lavin; the other is "The Eric Bogle Songbook."

And I must say that if these were the only 2 cd's in the world and I had to pick one to keep and one to give to my ex-wife, it would be Bogle all the way. A better singer, a better songwriter, a better CD.

Thots?

Alex


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 May 03 - 01:43 AM

I'm not familiar with either CD, but I certainly know and enjoy the work of both performers. Lavin does mostly humorous songs, and I think that humorous songs get old pretty quick. Still, I can't think of a better song than Regretting What I Said to sing to my ex-wife and a couple of ex-girlfriends. Lavin can do a good job on a serious song, too - The Moment Slipped Away really grabs me.

Certainly Eric Bogle is a wonderful, prolific songwriter with a string of memorable songs to his credit - but I think you're comparing apples and oranges if you try to compare him with Christine Lavin. They're different types of performers. Lavin is a comic singer who writes a few good serious songs, and Bogle is a more serious performer who writes a few very funny songs.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 22 May 03 - 01:45 AM

G'day Alex,

They are both very funny writers and singers in their own ways. If it came to an absolute choice ... I would probably give it to Chrissie ... but by a microscopic margin. (I hope Wee Eric doesn't have time to read Mudcat ... I run into him more often!)

Both have turned out recording I wouldn't willingly part with.

Regards,

Bopb Bolton


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 22 May 03 - 02:06 AM

Mousethief, one is not "better" than the other. They're different. The ol' apples and oranges thingy. Because you prefer one to the other doesn't make that one better, or the other inferior.
Kinda like that Best Male Folksinger thread a while back.
I love 'em both.

Seamus


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: Amos
Date: 22 May 03 - 02:58 AM

Well, I gotta say I am in love with Christine, and not with Eric. But that's just me...


A


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: Willie-O
Date: 22 May 03 - 08:36 AM

I thought you meant they were suing each other. Like, she wrote the "Band Played Waltzing Matilda", or he pioneered the idea of doing a luminous-baton-twirling exhibition as a folk concert finale...

Boy I'm disappointed. Folkies are such an affable bunch.

Willie-O
don't twirl. nobody steals my songs.


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: Naemanson
Date: 22 May 03 - 08:51 AM

I don't care for any of the "...better than..." comparisons. Bogle's performances are more of an emotional roller coaster than Lavin's. He can bring you to tears in one song and roll you on the floor in the next. Lavin, in my opinion, doesn't take my emotions so low as Bogle but she can be funnier.

My suggestion is to break the rules and keep both CDs and get all of their other CDs as well.


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 May 03 - 09:07 AM

From the title I thought this was about an upcoming mud-wrasslin' event.

I like 'em both. And they ARE different and you can't fairly compare them.


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: GUEST
Date: 22 May 03 - 09:31 AM

and here i was thinking "Celebrity Deathmatch"...ah well...Lavin's not bad...but I personally prefer Eric...


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: Bill D
Date: 22 May 03 - 11:39 AM

It's like discussing Tom Lehrer vs. Utah Phillips


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: Jim Colbert
Date: 22 May 03 - 12:55 PM

I like Eric Bogle a lot, but I have few qualms with Lavin either. I am particularly fond of the early live Bogle work- the German boots (I guess) and the two-record live set that I don't think has ever shown up on CD (it's not the same as the "then I wrote this wee song" later live 2-disc set.)

Bogle can tear your heart out quite easily; I prefer his sad songs to the funny as a whole because I sometimes feel like, as an American I'm missing a lot of the jokes! OTOH, Lavin does so much humourous material that when she does a weeper it is such a contrast that it can also really hit home...

I guess my personal tastes lean more toward Eric, but don't dismiss Christine. And above all, listen to other stuff when you have the chance to- it's hard to base big meaty opinions on just one album. What if, say, Planet Waves was the only Dylan record you ever heard, or.. I dunno, I don't have another example offhand.

I do have to say I'm jealous you've GOT real folk records in your library! With budget cuts and all here in PA, the selection is often quite poor locally.

jim


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: GUEST
Date: 22 May 03 - 01:00 PM

maybe you could get getting in touch with my inner bitch-lavin for an anniversary present.... ;) and duck...


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: GUEST,Ron Olesko
Date: 22 May 03 - 01:53 PM

It always amazes me that people feel a need to compare musicians and try to justify the like for one by knocking the other. What shallow lives we must lead!

I like pizza and I like chocolate. Do I like one more than the other? It depends on what I'm eating at the moment. I enjoy both. I'm not a fan of peaches. What does that have to do with pizza or chocolate?   Not a damn thing.

It should be noted that Mousethief (Alex) picked a "best of" collection for Bogle and a CD from the repertoire of Christine Lavin. I'll be honest here, it isn't my favorite Christine Lavin album. (Although I LOVE the song Planet X) In Mousethief's improbable scenario - these being the only two CD's in the world and I could only keep one, I too would go with the Bogle CD.

That is a far cry from saying that there is something wrong with Christine Lavin's music. I think the world of her, as a musician and someone I've known for years.   In the last few decades, there hasn't been another artist who has championed folk music and singer-songwriters as Christine Lavin. When she could be out promoting herself, she has been giving pushes for other musicians.    I have a tape of Christine on my radio show in 1985 when we spent almost two hours talking about OTHER musicians, and did not play a single song of her own. She was the first person who introduced me to John Gorka, Julie Gold and so many others.

My point in all this is that we are lucky that we do not have to make such an improbable choice (unless Clearchannel get their way). You can like or dislike whoever you choose, but it really isn't fair to hold two different musicians up to such comparision.   This is the type of claptrap that makes junk shows like "American Idol" possible. Why does art need to be such a competition?   

If you need to compartmentalize and look at music through blinders, you will miss some really wonderful music.

Ron


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: GUEST,New York City
Date: 22 May 03 - 02:49 PM

Christine and Eric, both of whom are friends of mine, come from very different backgrounds and traditions.

It's like asking what is better, apples or oranges. Personally, I like both but prefer orange juice to apple juice but apple pie to orange cake.

I must say that the question asked at the beginning of this thread is quite ridiculous.


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Subject: Pete Seeger vs: The Beatles
From: GUEST,Alexander
Date: 22 May 03 - 03:18 PM

I've just checked two CD's out of the library. The one is "Abbey Road" by the Beatles; the other is "The Essential Pete Seeger."

And I must say that if these were the only 2 cd's in the world and I had to pick one to keep and one to give to my ex-wife, it would be The Beatles all the way. Better singers, better songwriters, a better CD.

Thots?

Alexander
I moved this message here from another thread on a similar topic. In the process, a message from Ed Pellow to Alexander got lost, suggesting that Alexander listen to Pete Seeger's My Father's Mansion.
Sorry your message got lost, Ed.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger vs: The Beatles
From: GUEST
Date: 22 May 03 - 03:19 PM

youre a piece of shit...but it would be pete by a long shot.
I moved this message here from another thread on a similar topic.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: GUEST,Ron Olesko
Date: 22 May 03 - 03:27 PM

Alexander - do you have any pictures of your ex-wife?


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: GUEST,Ron Olesko
Date: 22 May 03 - 03:28 PM

Also, what is her shoe size and favorite color?   I'm trying to give you a logical answer.


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: GUEST
Date: 22 May 03 - 04:57 PM

Obviously, Alexander's Beatles vs. Pete Seeger post was satirical. It's virtually word for word identical to mousethief's Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle post.
Obviously.
But satirical responses should be posted in the thread they're responding to. We generally don't accept the practice of starting one thread to reply to another.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: GUEST,Ron Olesko
Date: 22 May 03 - 04:59 PM

Alexanders post was very obvious. I was being satirical myself. The critera needed to compare apples and oranges is subjective and in the end ridiculous.


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: mousethief
Date: 22 May 03 - 09:07 PM

"The question asked at the beginning of this thread" was "thoughts?" If this is a ridiculous question, then it can only be because you are incapable of thought. How I pity you.

I am amazed at how personally offended people get. I asked for thoughts, and got attacks. Maybe y'all can't tell the difference.

Some of the comments have been helpful, however. Like saying that this isn't Lavin's best album.

I didn't "Select" these two albums as if there were twenty Lavin albums and twenty Bogle albums and I grabbed the two most dissimilar ones in order to skew the comparison. I was searching through the Folk CD's and found two I wasn't familiar with and grabbed 'em.

You'd think I said that I'd shot your dog or something. I wanted some input on these two albums I checked out and I get bootthroated. Sheesh.

Some of y'all need to get lives.

To those who actually said something useful, thank you very much!

Alex


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 May 03 - 09:30 PM

Well, I dunno, alex. I can't say your question was what I would call profound. And due to your inability to distinguish apples from oranges, please don't bother to do any produce shopping for me.
Besides, I like bananas.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: PoppaGator
Date: 22 May 03 - 10:20 PM

I have no problem with Alex-the-mousethief's starting question. The only purpose to starting one of these threads is to provoke discussion, and in this case, it worked. No one should take offense, but then again the exchange of comments, including even the most ill-tempered, is all part of the infotainment found hereabouts.

Like the man said, what can possibly be offensive about the question "Thoughts?"

Me, I know just a little bit of Bogle's work, and nothing at all of Ms Lavin's, so I feel like I learned something. And, of course, I'm now that much more likely to give 'em both a listen at any opportunity.

I actually saw the misplaced Beatles-vs-Seeger question first, not knowing it was a parody of this earlier query, and tried to put in my two-cents-worth. By the time I had finished typing and hit "Send," however, I got the message "This thread has been deleted." I thought that was an overreaction to a thought-provoking if somewhat abrasive posting, and was a bit dismayed at what seemed to be an entirely inappropriate instance of censorship. I'm glad to see it was moved, not deleted, and quite amused now that I can consider it within its intended context.

I voted for the Beatles, by the way, but spent many more words babbling on about how I meant no disrespect for Pete, etc., etc., etc. I'm almost positive that, like almost everyone else, I employed the entirely appropriate cliche "apples and oranges."


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 22 May 03 - 10:22 PM

Alex, for my own edification if for no other reason, please illustrate where in my post I attacked you. Thanks.

Seamus


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: mousethief
Date: 23 May 03 - 09:38 AM

I don't think you did, Seamus. If the shoe doesn't fit and all that.

Thank you, PoppaGator. That's exactly what I had in mind -- stirring up discussion about these two "folk" artists, for my own (and hopefully the Mudcat's) edification.

Taste is a very personal thing, and I'm sorry if I stepped on anyone's toes. Next time I check out unfamiliar folk albums from the library, I'll keep my thoughts to myself for fear of offending y'all. Maybe I'll PM PoppaGator and Seamus and they can give me their thoughts without jumping down my throat.

I think some of the most interesting discussions come from comparing apples and oranges. How dull it would be if people only compared apples to apples. After a few blindingly self-obvious sentences what would there be to say?

Alex


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: GUEST,Ron Olesko
Date: 23 May 03 - 09:50 AM

Alex, I agree with you. When I saw the posts, I too said that people need to get a life.

The "problem" with your question is that you can't win with the answer. It is like asking someone "when did you stop beating your wife?" No matter how you answer there is going to be a problem. The far fetched scenario that you created in your post could do nothing but instill the posts that you witnessed.

You choose to compare apples and oranges, and your critera was limited - choosing two very different CD's.

Just for clarification, I said that the CD in question is not my PERSONAL favorite. I would bet that there are people that would see it differently. I hope so! It isn't a bad CD, it just isn't my PERSONAL favorite work from Christine.

Ron


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: GUEST,Strollin' Johnny
Date: 23 May 03 - 10:47 AM

Comparisons are Odious (or even odorous).
JB


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 23 May 03 - 03:11 PM

Fair enough, Alex.
Ron, good responses.

Seamus


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: GUEST,Ron Olesko
Date: 23 May 03 - 03:16 PM

Alex - Please continue to bring up artists for discussion.   You don't have to compare apples to oranges or even apples to apples. Just talk about the apple.   It stands on it's own.

There are more than a few sentences that could be said about either Eric Bogle OR Christine Lavin, and they wouldn't be self-obvious. If you had asked for responses about the particular CD we would have given impressions.   When you pit one artist against another, it opens up a whole different - and unnecessary discussion.


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: Jim Colbert
Date: 23 May 03 - 04:05 PM

Frankly I'm impressed that GUEST is friends with both Lavin and Bogle!

So the question turns to "who'se more fun at a dinner party..."

(yes, I'm kidding...)

jim


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: GUEST,New York City
Date: 23 May 03 - 04:54 PM

Jim Colbert,

Don't be impressed. As a performer, I've been on concert bills and festival stages with both Christine and Eric. Christine lives here in NYC and Eric comes over from Australia every couple of years or so.


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: mousethief
Date: 24 May 03 - 03:21 AM

Okay. In future I'll only mention one musical "discovery" per thread so that people who can't compare apples and oranges won't feel the need to leave footprints in my esophagus.

Thanks again everybody for your input.

Having listened to both CD's more than once now, I find that some of the Lavin songs have grown on me and some of the Bogle songs have paled. I played "Nobody's Moggy Now" and "A Song to Be Operated On By" (not sure if I got the title right there) for my daughter (age 15) and she enjoyed them both.

Alex


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: Bill D
Date: 24 May 03 - 10:00 AM

well, Alex..if I had gotten that many negative responses, my first thought would be "gee, maybe I didn't phrase my question very well" rather than "wow, some of these people need to get lives".....but this is the WWW, and we dense, insensitive sorts will persist in reading things as they appear.


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: mousethief
Date: 24 May 03 - 11:13 AM

How better to phrase "thoughts"?

Alex


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: GUEST,George Bernard Shawshank Redemption
Date: 24 May 03 - 01:29 PM

Excuse me, mousethief, can you repair my hamster? It's already May 24 and I have to meet someone at the Mudcat Cafe.


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: GUEST
Date: 24 May 03 - 08:23 PM

I love the query about the dinner party. I would want one of each on either side of me---the humor, life, and caring that Christine can instill in a person is a wonder----and her talent is monumental.

Eric B. would be the witty and yet sardonic other side at the table that I am at. A man of great insights and also great talent.

I am honored and delighted to know them both--though Christine a bit more--and find each of them to be stellar talents, raconteours, and people of depth in their own rights.

Oh yes, they also grab a live audience quite well--and Chris has to be my fovirte cheerleader and baton twirler.

Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 24 May 03 - 10:03 PM

Alex, the thing is, you didn't say "Thoughts?"--what you actually said was, "Thots?" And, to quote Robert Frost, or maybe Carl Sandburg, no, I think it was Frost, "That has made all the difference." Well, in fact the line was "And that has made all the difference," but in context it seemed clearer this way, although if you really want to get picky about it, that's fine.

Need I say more?

Aloha,
Mark

(Yes, I'm sure it was Frost. Unless it was Dylan Thomas. Those Welsh poets are hard to tell apart sometimes. Especially the dead ones.)


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Subject: RE: Christine Lavin vs. Eric Bogle
From: mousethief
Date: 24 May 03 - 11:12 PM

I stand corrected. I think.

Alex


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