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Percy Grainger: existing recordings?

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Folklore: Percy Grainger (41)


ooh-aah 22 May 03 - 06:16 AM
Roberto 22 May 03 - 06:43 AM
GUEST,Jim Ward 22 May 03 - 07:16 AM
Malcolm Douglas 22 May 03 - 07:27 AM
masato sakurai 22 May 03 - 08:24 AM
Acme 22 May 03 - 11:20 AM
GUEST,Peter from Essex 22 May 03 - 06:53 PM
masato sakurai 22 May 03 - 07:16 PM
Charley Noble 23 May 03 - 08:07 AM
Malcolm Douglas 23 May 03 - 08:48 AM
Beardy 23 May 03 - 08:53 AM
Snuffy 23 May 03 - 08:59 AM
GUEST,Train Guard 23 May 03 - 11:56 AM
Charley Noble 23 May 03 - 12:29 PM
ChrisJBrady 28 Sep 11 - 04:40 AM
ChrisJBrady 28 Sep 11 - 05:12 AM
Edthefolkie 28 Sep 11 - 05:38 PM
Acme 28 Sep 11 - 11:04 PM
Edthefolkie 29 Sep 11 - 11:24 AM
Young Buchan 29 Sep 11 - 11:43 AM
GUEST 12 Nov 14 - 11:00 PM
Jim Carroll 13 Nov 14 - 03:19 AM
Tradsinger 13 Nov 14 - 08:53 AM
GUEST,Paul Breslin 17 Dec 14 - 07:04 PM
GUEST,Nick Dow 18 Dec 14 - 06:31 AM
Tradsinger 18 Dec 14 - 11:23 AM
GUEST,Nick Dow 18 Dec 14 - 12:13 PM
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Subject: Percy Grainger: existing recordings?
From: ooh-aah
Date: 22 May 03 - 06:16 AM

I've recently been reading a very good biography of the Australian composer Percy Grainger, with fascinating details of his folk-song collecting activities in Lincolnshire and other places. Apparently he was the first to record songs sung by traditional singers, on wax cylinders. My question is: have these recordings (including Brigg Fair and many other classics) ever been remastered and released in some accessible form? Would Cecil Sharp house in London have them?


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Subject: RE: Percy Grainger: existing recordings?
From: Roberto
Date: 22 May 03 - 06:43 AM

Brigg Fair, recorded by Grainger, sung by Joseph Taylor is in HIDDEN ENGLISH : VARIOUS ARTISTS Topic TSCD600. Another song sung by Joseph Taylor, Worcester City, is in O'ER HIS GRAVE THE GRASS GREW GREEN: TRAGIC BALLADS VARIOUS ARTISTS Topic TSCD653: I think the original recording was by Grainger as well. There is a whole CD dedicated to Joseph Taylor and family at Folktrax, with Brigg fair and more: FTX-135 - UNTO BRIGG FAIR - GRAINGER, DELIUS, SHARP & TAYLOR
Notes from Folktrax: Percy Grainger recorded a number of traditional singers in Lincolnshire in 1906, of which Joseph was by far the most outstanding, both for his songs and for his singing technique. Here are 12 songs with talk about him by his daughter, Mary, recorded by Peter Kennedy in 1953. Delius used Brigg Fair for "English Rhapsody", and Joseph's son, John, and sister Mary, sing the song and talk about their father and his encounters with Percy Grainger, Frederic Delius and Cecil Sharp. Also included is an extract of Grainger's "Lincolnshire Posy".

1. BRIGG FAIR sung by Mary Taylor (age 82), rec. by Peter Kennedy, Saxby-all- Saints, 27.3.53 - 1'15"
2. Mary talks about her father, the North Lincolnshire Music Competitions, Lady Winifred & Gervase Elwes, Everard Fielding, Percy Grainger, Cecil Sharp, the singer who couldn't be stopped, and gives the names of songs recorded by her father for Percy Grainger in London, 1905/6 - 2'46"
3. BRIGG FAIR 2v sung by Joseph Taylor (75), phonographed in 1906 - 0'30"
4. Mary talks about her father singing at home, in the church choir & her brother John - 0'41"
5. BRIGG FAIR sung by John Taylor rec. Saxby-all-Saints, 1944 - 2'17"
6. Mary talks about family singing, winter evenings, the harmonium, her father playing and singing with the violin, his style "with turns and twiddles" - 2'11"
7. THE SPRIG OF THYME sung by Joseph Taylor (phonographed as above) - 1'32"
8. (BOLD) WILLIAM TAYLOR - 3'38"
9. RUFFORD PARK POACHERS - 1'32"
10. THE GYPSY'S WEDDING DAY - 1'38"
11. More talk by Mary about her father, his occupation, false accounts, birthplace and learning BRIGG FAIR, possibly from gypsies - 1'48"
12. MARIA MARTIN (or "Murder in the Red Barn") sung by Joseph Taylor - 0'42"
13. LORD BATEMAN - 1'56"
14. I WISH MY BABY LITTLE WAS BORN (or DIED FOR LOVE) - 0'57"
15. CREEPING JANE - 3'02"
16. JEALOUSY (WORCESTER CITY or POISON IN A GLASS OF WINE) - 2'38"
17. THE WHITE HARE - 2'32"
18. THE FOUR MARIES - sung by Mary Taylor - 1'04"
19. THE SPRIG OF THYME - sung by Mary Taylor - 1'21"
20. Mary talks about BRIGG FAIR, how Percy Grainger noted song & showed it to Frederic Delius, her father going to London, to the Queen's Hall for the first performance and how her father joined in, humming the tune in Dress Circle - 2'44"
21. RUFFORD PARK POACHERS - Excerpt from Percy Grainger's "Lincolnshire Posy" arranged for Wind Ensemble - 3'35"
22. LORD BATEMAN suing by Mr Thompson - 2'39"
23. GREEN BUSHES sung by Joseph Leaning - 0'54"
24. THE SHEFFIELD APPRENTICE sung by Joseph Leaning - 4'55"
25. HORKSTOW GRANGE sung by George Gouldthorpe - 1'12"
26. THE LANDLORD AND THE TENANT sung by Joseph Taylor - 0'39"
27. BOLD NEVISON sung by Joseph Taylor - 0'59"
28. LORD MELBOURNE sung by George Wray - 1'12"
29. ROBIN HOOD AND THE THREE SQUIRES sung by Dean Robinson - 2'22"
30. T'OWD YOWE WI' ONE HORN sung by Dean Robinson - 1'32"

The recordings of Mary Taylor, his daughter, were made by Peter Kennedy at her home at Saxby-all-Saints on the 27th March, 1953. The recordings of Joseph Taylor and the other Lincolnshire singers were taken from gramophone copies of the original wax phonograph cylinders made in 1906.


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Subject: RE: Percy Grainger: existing recordings?
From: GUEST,Jim Ward
Date: 22 May 03 - 07:16 AM

Joseph Taylor recorded for The Gramophone Company (later HMV) in London July, 1908. Some of these recordings were issued on 12" single-sided 78rpm discs and it is possible that these were played to Peter Kennedy. Percy Grainger also recorded him on wax cylinders, and most of the originals are in a Percy Grainger museum in Australia.
      An LP issued in the 70's (can't remember label)had 14 tracks by Taylor, 12 of which were from Gramophone Company recordings including an alternate take. Seven more tracks on this LP are by the other Lincolnshire singers who are also on the Folktrax CD mentioned before.
      A number of these tracks are on Topic's 'Voice of the People' 20-CD set all beautifully re-mastered.


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Subject: RE: Percy Grainger: existing recordings?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 22 May 03 - 07:27 AM

Bill Leader brought out an LP of recordings made by Grainger (Unto Brigg Fair, LEA 4050 1972); this is another one being kept out-of-print by the egregious Dave Bulmer. The bulk of Grainger's surviving cylinder recordings are at the Library of Congress in Washington.


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Subject: RE: Percy Grainger: existing recordings?
From: masato sakurai
Date: 22 May 03 - 08:24 AM

Info from folktrax:

GRAINGER, Percy - Australia/ coll/ comp & pianist/ - "Collecting with a phonograph" in JFSS 12 1908 - FMJ 1974 p335-51 R S Thomson (Further) "Songs from the Grainger Collection" - ED&S Mag 44/2 1982 p18 Article by Dr Jane O Brian - FMJ 6/3 1992 pp 139-358 Article by Gwilym Davies on Grainger's Folk Music Research in Gloucestershire, Worcestershire and Warwickshire - see GREEN BUSHES - HANDEL IN THE STRAND - MOLLY ON THE SHORE - SHALLOW BROWN -- - Joseph TAYLOR & family rec by Percy Grainger/ John TAYLOR rec Saxby-all-Saints, Brigg 1944: RPL 6643/ Mary TAYLOR introducing her father, Joseph, Percy Grainger, Frederick Delius etc rec by PK Saxby-all-Saints 27th March 1953: 135 - Douglas KENNEDY talks about how Grainger offered to share royalties with Cecil Sharp of Morris dance tunes including "Country Gardens": 481-493 (0n 490) - ABC (Australian Broadcasting Company) RRCS-131 Various works - PRS 11653 (45 EP) "Molly on the Shore" & "Handel in the Strand" - ARGO ZDA-70 "Lord Lovel" - "Maria Martin" & "White Hare": B & C PEG-7 & DECCA SML-1117 - DECCA KSXC-6410 cass: Salute from Benjamin Britten - LARRIKIN LRF-034 1977 rec ABC Sydney: Duo Art Rolls of f/m arr - LEADER LEA-4050 1972 incl copies of Phonograph recordings of Joseph TAYLOR, Mr Thomson, Joseph Leaning, George Gouldthorpe, George Wray & Dean Robinson - Prog about him on Radio 3 9/1/90 CASS-90- 0826 incl talk with John Amies about collecting:"Lincolnshire Posy", "Spoon River", "Pretty Maid Milking/ Sprig of Thyme", "Hill Song 2" & "Shallow Brown" --- "Brigg Fair": Martin CARTHY: PHILLIPS 6382022 1967 - "Brigg Fair" Shirley Collins: TOPIC 12- T-170 1967 - "Creeping Jane": Dave & Toni Arthur: 12-T-190 1969 - BROADSIDE Group Grimsby: 12-TS-228 1972 - "Hawkstow Grange": Shirley Collins: TOPIC 12-TS-238 1974 - "Artichokes & Cauliflowers": John KIRKPATRICK: 12-TS-295 1976

~Masato


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Subject: RE: Percy Grainger: existing recordings?
From: Acme
Date: 22 May 03 - 11:20 AM

I don't have recordings, but I do have a lot of sheet music. Like Chopin, Grainger was a pianist who believed in making you WORK to play his arrangements. There was ALWAYS at least one really tough spot in each piece to learn or reach for. His arrangements are beautiful and distinctive (I can always recognize a Grainger arrangement if I hear piano music being played on my local classical radio station).

SRS


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Subject: RE: Percy Grainger: existing recordings?
From: GUEST,Peter from Essex
Date: 22 May 03 - 06:53 PM

So thats why the Joseph Taylor LP has never been rereleased. I found it by chance in a record shop, it was in the Country and Western section !!! and I was totally blown away by Tailor's voice.


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Subject: RE: Percy Grainger: existing recordings?
From: masato sakurai
Date: 22 May 03 - 07:16 PM

Unto Brigg Fair (Joseph Taylor and other Traditional Lincolnshire Singers Recorded in 1908 by Percy Grainger; Leader LEA 4050, mono LP, 1972), with notes & lyrics.

~Masato


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Subject: RE: Percy Grainger: existing recordings?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 May 03 - 08:07 AM

Would be so nice to see the lyrics from above of:

26. THE LANDLORD AND THE TENANT sung by Joseph Taylor - 0'39"

It might make a fitting vintage candidate for the draft HOUSING SONGBOOK I've been editing for years.

Pretty please!
Landlady's Daughter, not to be confused with Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Percy Grainger: existing recordings?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 23 May 03 - 08:48 AM

See  http://www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~zierke/joseph.taylor/landlord.html


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Subject: RE: Percy Grainger: existing recordings?
From: Beardy
Date: 23 May 03 - 08:53 AM

Had a recording of a wax cylinder recording of Percy Grainger playing a piano version of 'English Country Garden' about 15 years ago. When I get home from Cleethorpes festival I will check to see if I can find it and any info relating to it.


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Subject: RE: Percy Grainger: existing recordings?
From: Snuffy
Date: 23 May 03 - 08:59 AM

Didn't the Proms have a concert a few years back where they played one of Grainger's works and the soloist was a piano-roll of Grainger himself playing the piece?


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Subject: RE: Percy Grainger: existing recordings?
From: GUEST,Train Guard
Date: 23 May 03 - 11:56 AM

There was a (BBC, I think) television documentary about Percy Grainger many years ago. They played an original recording (probably of Joseph Taylor, though I can't remember the details) over an image of the singer's gravestone in a churchyard....a stone that was blackened and worn and neglected. One of the eeriest things that I have ever experienced, and it made the hairs on the back of my neck bristle....

   Regards,
    Train Guard


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Subject: RE: Percy Grainger: existing recordings?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 May 03 - 12:29 PM

Thanks, Malcolm, for the link to "The Landlord and the Tenant" fragment.

LD


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Subject: RE: Percy Grainger: existing recordings?
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 04:40 AM

Currently there is a series of 5 programmes about Percy Grainger on BBC Radio 3 in arts series "The Essay" (and on BBC iPLayer - use ExpatShield to listen overseas, and note that RadioDownloader will download them).

Details can be found at:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006x3hl/episodes/player

1. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0151pqc

2. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0151q5s

with the others still to come

On another forum I chased up the question re: surviving Grainger cylinders. I think the below replies describe their remarkable survival. (Please do not restart any thread regarding bus-passer Bulmer):

====

Go to: thread.cfm?threadid=35698#488696 - then search page for 'grainger'

Subject: RE: The 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga
From: GeorgeH
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 12:04 PM

Dita/John:
I did hear a suggestion that copies of the wax cylinders which Bulmer owns are also held in the Library of Congress collection . . do you know anything about this?

(As I understand it they comprise or include Percy Grainger's field recordings. I have also been told that if they haven't been archived to another medium by now the chances of getting meaningful sounds off them are not good.)

G.

====

All of the wax cylinders which Grainger recorded in the UK were lodged with the Library of Congress. At the time they went there, Grainger rewrote the catalogue and the cylinders' contents were transferred to acetate discs, copies of which can be heard at the Vaughan Williams library and a few other places. The cylinders themselves were eventually sent to the Grainger Museum in Melbourne but, by this time, they had almost completely disintegrated, so the acetates are the only record of the original recordings.

The acetate to tape transfers were done fairly basically (at the LoC) and are of widely variable quality: some of the Lincolnshire material for which Grainger produced detailed transcriptions as part of his EFSS article are barely listenable, because repeated playing has degraded the cylinder. Other material, especially some of the stuff he recorded in Gloucestershire, he never got around to transcribing, so the sound quality is really good.

Bulmer doesn't own any of the wax cylinders; the Leader record was from transcriptions of Library of Congress acetates, and HMV studio sessions. He doesn't own the copyright on these, but does on the packaging and sleeve notes (I presume).

Cheers,
P...

====

Hello

In some haste, I can chime in to remind people that tape copies of the Grainger cylinders are also lodged at the British Library where we received them as part of the Ewan MacColl / Peggy Seeger Collection. We copied them several years ago to CDR so they are all available for listening onsite at the BL.

All the best

J...

Lead Curator, World and Traditional Music
British Library

====

There are quite a few recordings of Percy Grainger at Archive.org:

http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=percy%20grainger

This includes a "A Concert in Honor of Percy Grainger's 100th Birthday [1982]: After an introductory talk by Charles Amirkhanian about the life and work of Percy Grainger we hear a recital of many of his works."

http://www.archive.org/details/NMA_1982_07_08_01

====


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Subject: RE: Percy Grainger: existing recordings?
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 05:12 AM

Other recordings are:

Percy Grainger: The Complete 78-rpm Solo Recordings, 1908-1945 ? Columbia Concert Band (Hungarian Fantasia, 1918)/ Percy Grainger, piano APR 7501 (5 CDs) 79:09, 77:12, 76:19, 77:37. 79:48 [Distr. by Harmonia mundi]

http://johnjohnsaidit.com/percy-grainger-the-complete-78-rpm-solo-recordings-1908-1945-apr-5-cds/


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Subject: RE: Percy Grainger: existing recordings?
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 05:38 PM

Here's Percy himself (or his ghost, I suppose) playing Country Gardens. And before anyone says anything, it's meant to be that speed. Plenty more bits and bobs on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE8aPggErbI&feature=related


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Subject: RE: Percy Grainger: existing recordings?
From: Acme
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 11:04 PM

My piano teacher had us play it quite quickly. I suppose that is a piano roll? They have some of those that Gershwin recorded with also. It is kind of ghostly, isn't it?

SRS


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Subject: RE: Percy Grainger: existing recordings?
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 11:24 AM

SRS, yes it's a Duo Art playing a roll recorded by Grainger himself. From my very limited knowledge the Duo Art seems to be the Rolls Royce of reproducing pianos. What cracks me up about this clip is that every time the Phantom Grainger hits the sustain pedal, the whole keyboard moves!

Here's another clip of part of the Lincolnshire Posy, folk songs aranged for wind band by Grainger. I have a shrewd idea that Percy would have approved of this particular wind band....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsUbnscbcJI


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Subject: RE: Percy Grainger: existing recordings?
From: Young Buchan
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 11:43 AM

But the REALLY exciting thing for all you PG completists is that on quite a few of the recordings on the B side of the Taylor LP the voice of PG can be heard prompting the singers with the opening words of the next verse!


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Subject: RE: Percy Grainger: existing recordings?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 14 - 11:00 PM

These field recordings are included in a book discussing Grainger's use of folk music in his wind music. The author is Robert Garafolo.


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Subject: RE: Percy Grainger: existing recordings?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 14 - 03:19 AM

These recordings have been deposited at The National Sound Archive.
'Unto Brigg Fair' which was edited by Bob Thomson and Bill Leader in 1972, was, I believe, a small tip of the iceberg.
It's always struck me that it is a shame that they have never been made fully available, eher in print nor in recorded form, as they represent the finest exmples of English traditional singing.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Percy Grainger: existing recordings?
From: Tradsinger
Date: 13 Nov 14 - 08:53 AM

Percy Grainger visited Gloucestershire in 1907-1909 and collected about 60+ songs. Many of these are on cylinder recordings and these can be heard at Cecil Sharp House or at the British Library Sound Archive. I am currently working on a project called "The Single Gloucester" to put songs collected in Gloucestershire on the web and have permission to transcribe the recordings (or to get them transcribed), but not to put the recordings themselves on the web as they are the remit of the Library of Congress in Washington DC. The Single Gloucester website should be up and running by about August 2015, with the transcriptions. A number of the songs that Grainger collected, transcribed by him from his cylinder recordings, can be found on line on the Full English project.

Apart from Grainger's Lincolnshire and Gloucestershire work, he also recorded a lot of shanties from singers at Bristol and these can be heard at the British Library or Cecil Sharp House.

Tradsinger

Tradsinger


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Subject: RE: Percy Grainger: existing recordings?
From: GUEST,Paul Breslin
Date: 17 Dec 14 - 07:04 PM

Five of the Joseph Taylor recordings are scattered through Topic Records' Voice of the People series.


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Subject: RE: Percy Grainger: existing recordings?
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 18 Dec 14 - 06:31 AM

Grovelling apologies if this query is already answered I have not had time to read the entire thread,Is the Grainger recording of Archer Lane available on line. (Cloddy Banks}


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Subject: RE: Percy Grainger: existing recordings?
From: Tradsinger
Date: 18 Dec 14 - 11:23 AM

The recordings that Grainger made in Gloucestershire are not available on line. I have obtained authority to transcribe the audio and so have a set but I am not at liberty to pass it on. I said in the above post, the rights to publish the audio reside with the Library of Congress and they probably have their own agenda to put stuff on line, so I can't go against that. However, I can tell you that the transcript of Lane singing Cloddy Banks is pretty accurate.

Tradsinger


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Subject: Percy Grainger: existing recordings?
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 18 Dec 14 - 12:13 PM

In Penguin Vol 2   Many thanks Tradsinger


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