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Lending instruments especially in Pubs

Tyke 27 May 03 - 04:30 PM
GUEST,Deskjet 27 May 03 - 05:24 PM
UB Ed 27 May 03 - 06:01 PM
GUEST,Sorcha 27 May 03 - 06:14 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 27 May 03 - 06:21 PM
Rich(bodhránai gan ciall) 27 May 03 - 06:56 PM
Ely 27 May 03 - 07:02 PM
GUEST,DaveK 27 May 03 - 07:03 PM
Sandy Mc Lean 27 May 03 - 07:54 PM
smallpiper 27 May 03 - 08:18 PM
Ebbie 27 May 03 - 09:18 PM
Mooh 27 May 03 - 09:37 PM
Little Hawk 27 May 03 - 09:49 PM
Joe Offer 27 May 03 - 09:49 PM
Roger the Skiffler 28 May 03 - 03:35 AM
IanC 28 May 03 - 03:50 AM
Steve Parkes 28 May 03 - 05:29 AM
Dead Horse 28 May 03 - 09:30 AM
GUEST 28 May 03 - 09:39 AM
JedMarum 28 May 03 - 09:51 AM
JedMarum 28 May 03 - 09:53 AM
Willie-O 28 May 03 - 10:00 AM
Willie-O 28 May 03 - 10:50 AM
GUEST,Les B. 28 May 03 - 12:09 PM
C-flat 28 May 03 - 01:35 PM
Willie-O 28 May 03 - 01:56 PM
Tyke 28 May 03 - 02:58 PM
GUEST,Egal 28 May 03 - 03:29 PM
curmudgeon 28 May 03 - 03:56 PM
GUEST,Egal 28 May 03 - 04:02 PM
curmudgeon 28 May 03 - 04:12 PM
Clinton Hammond 28 May 03 - 04:16 PM
GUEST,Egal 28 May 03 - 04:20 PM
Dead Horse 28 May 03 - 05:06 PM
Raggytash 28 May 03 - 07:06 PM
curmudgeon 28 May 03 - 07:20 PM
Tyke 28 May 03 - 10:00 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 29 May 03 - 12:32 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 29 May 03 - 12:37 AM
GUEST,sorefingers 29 May 03 - 12:53 AM
Steve Parkes 29 May 03 - 03:20 AM
Hamish 29 May 03 - 03:41 AM
Liz the Squeak 29 May 03 - 05:14 AM
Steve Parkes 29 May 03 - 05:18 AM
Tyke 29 May 03 - 03:52 PM
Raggytash 29 May 03 - 07:11 PM
JedMarum 29 May 03 - 07:27 PM
Tyke 29 May 03 - 07:42 PM
GUEST,Banjoma 30 May 03 - 06:11 AM
GUEST,Strollin' Johnny 30 May 03 - 08:34 AM
GUEST,Allen Woodpecker 30 May 03 - 12:53 PM
GUEST,M'Grath of Altcar 30 May 03 - 01:56 PM
Tyke 28 Jul 06 - 11:50 AM
jacqui.c 28 Jul 06 - 02:00 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 28 Jul 06 - 02:30 PM
Richard Bridge 28 Jul 06 - 03:35 PM
SussexCarole 28 Jul 06 - 04:18 PM
GUEST,Jon 28 Jul 06 - 04:45 PM
Anne Lister 28 Jul 06 - 05:16 PM
GUEST,Seamus Kennedy 28 Jul 06 - 05:30 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 28 Jul 06 - 08:00 PM
Tyke 28 Jul 06 - 09:41 PM
jacqui.c 29 Jul 06 - 07:35 AM
Tyke 29 Jul 06 - 12:40 PM
Strollin' Johnny 29 Jul 06 - 12:54 PM
jacqui.c 30 Jul 06 - 09:13 AM
Strollin' Johnny 30 Jul 06 - 09:15 AM
jacqui.c 30 Jul 06 - 12:45 PM
Scrump 31 Jul 06 - 05:48 AM
Red and White Rabbit 01 Aug 06 - 03:49 AM
Tattie Bogle 01 Aug 06 - 09:27 PM
GUEST,Jon 01 Aug 06 - 09:53 PM
GerryMc 02 Aug 06 - 06:16 AM
The Fooles Troupe 02 Aug 06 - 07:26 AM
Mooh 02 Aug 06 - 08:30 AM
Tattie Bogle 02 Aug 06 - 04:46 PM
Tyke 03 Jun 07 - 08:01 AM
John MacKenzie 03 Jun 07 - 08:57 AM
kendall 03 Jun 07 - 09:22 AM
dick greenhaus 03 Jun 07 - 12:22 PM
Tyke 03 Jun 07 - 01:56 PM
The Sandman 03 Jun 07 - 02:59 PM
Bert 03 Jun 07 - 03:47 PM
Sorcha 03 Jun 07 - 04:57 PM
Greg B 03 Jun 07 - 05:18 PM
Tyke 03 Jun 07 - 06:10 PM
Jim Lad 03 Jun 07 - 06:57 PM
Tyke 03 Jun 07 - 07:14 PM
Rockhen 03 Jun 07 - 07:33 PM
Bernard 03 Jun 07 - 07:42 PM
Gulliver 03 Jun 07 - 10:35 PM
rock chick 03 Jun 07 - 11:07 PM
GUEST,Texas Guest 03 Jun 07 - 11:57 PM
Grab 04 Jun 07 - 05:02 AM
Anne Lister 04 Jun 07 - 05:15 AM
Doug Chadwick 04 Jun 07 - 03:14 PM
Doug Chadwick 04 Jun 07 - 03:23 PM
Doug Chadwick 04 Jun 07 - 03:29 PM
Gulliver 04 Jun 07 - 05:11 PM
Doug Chadwick 04 Jun 07 - 05:34 PM
Jim Lad 04 Jun 07 - 06:00 PM
Peace 04 Jun 07 - 06:41 PM
Dame Pattie Smith EPNS 04 Jun 07 - 06:44 PM
slowerairs 04 Jun 07 - 07:07 PM
Howard Jones 04 Jun 07 - 07:12 PM
Mary Humphreys 04 Jun 07 - 07:23 PM
Jim Lad 04 Jun 07 - 07:23 PM
Tyke 04 Jun 07 - 07:26 PM
Phil Cooper 04 Jun 07 - 10:42 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 04 Jun 07 - 11:05 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 04 Jun 07 - 11:08 PM
GUEST 05 Jun 07 - 03:21 AM
Richard Bridge 05 Jun 07 - 04:05 AM
The Sandman 05 Jun 07 - 04:24 AM
Gulliver 05 Jun 07 - 09:39 AM
The Sandman 05 Jun 07 - 10:41 AM
Joe Offer 05 Jun 07 - 04:19 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 05 Jun 07 - 05:28 PM
PoppaGator 05 Jun 07 - 05:44 PM
Tattie Bogle 05 Jun 07 - 08:06 PM
Gulliver 05 Jun 07 - 09:02 PM
Tyke 06 Jun 07 - 03:57 PM
Gulliver 06 Jun 07 - 06:55 PM
Tyke 06 Jun 07 - 07:49 PM
coldjam 07 Jun 07 - 01:39 PM
Midchuck 07 Jun 07 - 01:59 PM
Tyke 08 Jun 07 - 06:16 AM
Blues=Life 08 Jun 07 - 04:12 PM
Tyke 10 Jun 07 - 04:39 PM
Tyke 26 Sep 09 - 10:03 AM
GUEST 26 Sep 09 - 12:44 PM
Tyke 26 Sep 09 - 05:32 PM
The Sandman 27 Sep 09 - 06:02 PM
Duke 28 Sep 09 - 05:56 PM
Blues=Life 28 Sep 09 - 09:00 PM
MGM·Lion 28 Sep 09 - 11:30 PM
Tyke 29 Sep 09 - 12:30 AM
Blues=Life 30 Sep 09 - 02:29 PM
Suegorgeous 30 Sep 09 - 04:26 PM
Tyke 30 Sep 09 - 06:05 PM
GUEST,Pierre Le Chapeau. 30 Sep 09 - 11:19 PM
Blues=Life 22 Jan 10 - 08:39 AM
Tyke 14 Aug 12 - 04:35 PM
GUEST,999 14 Aug 12 - 04:50 PM
Leadfingers 14 Aug 12 - 05:38 PM
meself 14 Aug 12 - 05:49 PM
Ole Juul 15 Aug 12 - 12:24 AM
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Tyke 15 Aug 12 - 08:45 PM
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Subject: BS: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 27 May 03 - 04:30 PM

Ok so I am a bit protective when it comes to my Guitar. I started to worry that it was just me! I learned to play in DADGAD to put people off without causing offence. But that didn't work! I have tried many different approaches to try and explain why lending my guitar out makes me nervous! Whether it's a flat NO! Or a look it's not just you but the rest of the pub who for whatever reason might then wants to borrow it. I've tried everything polite or not some people take offence.

Why don't they understand? OK even if, which is more probable than not, they can play the Guitar better than me! Even if listening to it being played by an experienced player gives me some solace. I still don't like lending out my Guitar! It's part of me! I dust it service it changes its string for new ones carry it with me where ever I go.

My Gurian is irreplaceable even if they were still being made and it's Brazilian Rosewood still being harvested. Even if the Star ship flew down and produced one out of one of its replicaters it would just not be the same. I've tried every thing to stop people asking I've even printed out as pamphlet all about Gurian Guitars in an attempt to explain it.

Please help me with some suggestions on how to put people off asking. How many others feel the same about their instruments? Am I just highly strung or is it my guitar?

PS.
To make matters worse I've been out and bought another Guitar! The idea was that I would not be as worried about the new one. But unfortunately I'm stating a new love affair with this new guitar, which is defeats, the object of the exercise. I'm not saying I never want anyone else to play one of my guitars I just want to be able to choose who where and when.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST,Deskjet
Date: 27 May 03 - 05:24 PM

Very dodgy all right. Once you are in a pub it's always likely to happen; a couple of pints and they think they're Jose Feliciano. You get it back and the top looks like a pack of cats had just been fighting on it; and this after you re-arranging your playing style over the years to avoid just that, and going easy on the sauce in case you become careless.They say thank you and carry on drinking, oblivious to the damage to your guitar and the annihilation of your sensibility. A guitar is just a guitar,right?
As politely as you can, say no.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: UB Ed
Date: 27 May 03 - 06:01 PM

Not unless I know the person will care for my instrument beforehand. I let them know I can't take a chance with my baby and, as a musician, they will surely understand. After that they get a smile, a raised eybrow and a gently shaking of my head.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST,Sorcha
Date: 27 May 03 - 06:14 PM

Can't say as I blame you. IF I know the person, IF I know they are sober, and IF I know they can play, I SOMETIMES do. BUT, I don't let them get more than 2 feet away from me and stop them if they get crazy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 27 May 03 - 06:21 PM

I own several guitars, but I generally take my J-45 Gibson to our weekly session. It's not the best guitar I own, but it's good enough for what I need at a pub session. I bought it used with some scratches and finish cracks so I don't mind if other people play it. I won't let an obvious drunk play it, but I doubt one more scratch is gong to hurt it. I'm a little more particular about who I'll pass my Martin D-28 to and I can count the people who've played my Santa Cruz OM on one hand.

Bruce


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Subject: RE: BS: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Rich(bodhránai gan ciall)
Date: 27 May 03 - 06:56 PM

I have to ask what's this joker doing at a session, jam, open stage... whatever without an instrument? Being a percussionist I'm even more likely to be approached by some would-be-musician who thinks that holding a drum in his hands will automatically convey the ability to play it. I can count on my fingers how many people to whom I've lent my bodhrán, bones, doumbek, riq, etc. All musicians I had enough respect for and trust in.

RIch


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Subject: RE: BS: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Ely
Date: 27 May 03 - 07:02 PM

If you can stand it, get a guitar that you're not in love with. My "baby" is an older Guild that you'd have to pry from my cold, dead fingers. So, I got a cheap Alvarez--it still sounds and plays OK but if you sit on it, I won't have to kill you. Also, it LOOKS cheap--no frills, no trim--so nobody is ever itching to play it just for the sake of touching it. I know that sounds perverted, but a friend of mine once had a gorgeous old Fender and everyone was always bugging him to lend it out just because they wanted to say they'd played this wonderful guitar.

Failing that, I just tell them "no", unless it's someone I know & trust and they're mostly sober. Ditto for the lap dulcimers, which really are irreplaceable since their builder has retired--I can only think of one or two people I'd let play them. (On the flip side, I would never ask somebody if I could borrow their instrument unless they knew me very well and knew I would treat it with care.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST,DaveK
Date: 27 May 03 - 07:03 PM

And I thought I was the only one. Some years ago I used to play in a pub every Sunday night as an offshoot of our folkclub. The last straw was when I saw my precious Yamaha FG300 being handed over to someone whilst I was at the bar without a thought of asking if it was okay. I moaned so much that the club organiser nearly went out and got a spare club guitar for 'those without' to play.
Since that time I have various guitars. Most I do not take out unless I am playing a personal gig. ( And I make it known that I do not 'borrow' these guitars. My old battered Yamaha FG 401 gets taken out to the pub sessions and whilst it has become personal to me I don't mind it being played by someone who has turned up on the night by chance.
I like the DADGAD idea but I have seen so many strangers try to play an out of tune guitar during the course of an evenings drinking that it probably would not make much difference.
I suppose the polite 'no' is best - then wait and see.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 27 May 03 - 07:54 PM

I enjoy hearing one of my guitars been played by someone other than myself, but then again I don't own a D-45 or a Hummingbird. If I had one of those I would be protective as hell.
To ask someone to borrow their guitar is sometimes like asking to borrow their wife. :-}


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Subject: RE: BS: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: smallpiper
Date: 27 May 03 - 08:18 PM

The answer is always NO (with my pipes that is)with the exception of a very close friend and the guy who made them. Fiddle, a yes to people I know will respect it and whistles to anyone who can play - I don't really care about them. And I would never be offended if (on the rare occasion I asked) some one refused me the loan of an instrument.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 May 03 - 09:18 PM

I do sometimes lend mine- but only when I'm right there. And at the first hint of carelessness on their part, I take it back. You wouldn't believe how many people will lean their (your! guitar against a chair seat. Grrrrrrrrrrrr.

A friend of mine says that he just asks, Got the money to replace it?

On the other hand, I do like to hear my guitar's voice when someone good plays it. Makes me dang proud.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Mooh
Date: 27 May 03 - 09:37 PM

Generally the answer is a good firm but polite "No". I too have heard my guitars played by stellar players but they're in the minority. If someone is offended and considers me a prick then so be it. I will hand my guitar to a trusted player, but even one of my closest friends is so clumsy I won't trust him with it.

Most often the culprit is alcohol, crowdedness, roudiness, but I don't take any chances outside of my own home.

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 May 03 - 09:49 PM

The answer is "No", firmly and politely, and best with a smile.

Since alcohol is normally the main problem, I have solved it by very seldom, if ever, playing in places devoted to drinking. Of course, I don't try to make a living by playing music...and it's partly because of the places in which I would have to play if I did. I detest bars.

- LH


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 May 03 - 09:49 PM

Last summer, Micca took me to a session somewhere near his home in London. Dave Bryant and some other Mudcatters were there - and there was a very drunk man at the bar who kept requesting dumb songs. When we took a break, he came up and borrowed a beautiful guitar - I think it was Dave's - and he promptly banged it into something. It sounded like the guitar was going to break, but it didn't seem to be damaged. It scared the hell out of me, because it was such a beautiful instrument.

I suppose it's nice to be generous, but I think it's unwise to lend your guitar to a drunk. But I have to say that the guitar owner handleed it very graciously. I don't know that I could have been so calm. Like I say, I think it was Dave who was so generous and then so forgiving, but I could be mistaken. He's a better man than I am - but I pity his guitar.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 28 May 03 - 03:35 AM

Funny, no-one ever asks to borrow my kazoo - except to offer to tune it with a lump hammer...

RtS


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: IanC
Date: 28 May 03 - 03:50 AM

Nobody ever seems to want to borrow my melodeon either.

;-)


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 28 May 03 - 05:29 AM

A few years back I had the opposite experience. I turned up at placve I'd only visited a few times. I'd left my guitar at home, as I wasn't feeling too bright, and hadn't intended to do anything, but I was persuaded to sing. A couple of people offered me their guitars, but I said, no thanks, I'd do something unaccompanied. They were very insistent, and I had to be quite firm - though polite -- in refusing!

Steve


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Dead Horse
Date: 28 May 03 - 09:30 AM

I dont own, nor can I play, any serious musical instrument.
(I'll lend ya my teefer, or my shaky banana)
But I do often sing accompanied by my wife who dances percussion.
If anyone wanted to "borrow" my wife for a few minutes, they'd get a rude answer..................
I have noticed that serious musicians will offer to lend their instrument to somebody they respect & admire, but I have never heard any such person actually ask to borrow someone elses instrument. It just dont seem to be the "done thing".


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST
Date: 28 May 03 - 09:39 AM

gee...why dont you check out the other gazillion threads on this same subject?


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: JedMarum
Date: 28 May 03 - 09:51 AM

I generally like to have other folks play my guitar. I have had idiots, bang into stuff on rare occasion, or folks too drunk to play ask to try it - so I am wary, in those situations - but generally, if someone can play an instrument, they know how to care for it, and most people who I meet in a situation to ask to play are mindful of the instrument and its value - they will treat it with care.

I love my guitar and take delight in other people's reaction to it, especially when they play it, and hear it up close.

I do understand, however, and respect those who do not wish to have others play their instruments. I rarely ask another player to try his guitar - but do so readily if it is offered.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: JedMarum
Date: 28 May 03 - 09:53 AM

... also, in those rare times when I've been at a session without a guitar, I've asked the room if someone would loan a guitar - because I know that some do not want to, but many do - that saves the embarassment of asking the wrong person.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Willie-O
Date: 28 May 03 - 10:00 AM

Well, Dead Horse, let me introduce myself. I'm Bill and I'm a borrowholic. Just kidding, sort of. I think I am a "serious musician", and I occasionally ask to borrow someone's guitar at a session. Usually cause I brought a mandolin and a fiddle but not a guitar (see that thread-without-end "Bad Manners at Sessions", another frequent pet peeve is people who bring too much clutter), and have an urge or a request to sing a song.   The hell with "the done thing", we're there to play--and share. What you share is up to you. I'm a guitar and mandolin enthusiast and enjoy trying different ones, and sharing my own with like-minded people.

What in my books is not 'the done thing' includes:

  • not asking the owner first
  • not taking a polite "no" for an answer--no explanation is required
  • asking to try an instrument you don't know how to play
  • obviously, abusing a borrowed instrument in any way, including unauthorized retunings, or putting it in harm's way


But I can't think why I'd want to be hanging around at a session with a bunch of people I wouldn't trust to play a tune on my instrument. Doesn't say much for the quality of musicianship present.

Tyke, most professional mechanics have a sign on their toolboxes "I make my living with these tools. Please don't ask to borrow them." Maybe you should try something like that....

W-O


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Willie-O
Date: 28 May 03 - 10:50 AM

Jed, that "asking the room" is a good suggestion. For sure...


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 28 May 03 - 12:09 PM

One good ploy would be to ask the borrower if they're willing to take a breathalizer test to see if they're sober enough to play.
Nah, it'd probably piss 'em off.

In a slightly different vein, I always wonder how far one should go to protect someone from their own foolhardiness?

I was at a home jam recently, and a young woman, obviously a beginning player, with a new Martin decided to go out to the kitchen for a drink. She casually leaned it precariously upright against a wooden chair with a small child crawling very near. I picked it up and stashed it out of reach, mentioning that I'd hate to see her new Martin get broken. She gave me the kind of look that made me wonder if I shouldn't have just left it there. But it was a Martin and deserved some respect !!


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: C-flat
Date: 28 May 03 - 01:35 PM

I really don't have a problem with someone else using my guitar as long as they're not abusing it. I have a couple of good guitars and a few not so good but it's nice to hear how they sound from the front.
I once stumbled into a folk gathering in Barnard Castle and decided to stay and listen. When asked if I would like to contribute I explained that I hadn't brought an instrument as I wasn't expecting to play but I was quickly offered a guitar and played a couple of songs before returning it with thanks to the owner. I thought no more about it as I would have certainly done the same but was dissapointed when, towards the end of the evening, the same guy who had lent me his guitar complained to the group about people turning up without instruments.
I could have understood if I was a clumsy novice or if I'd been rude to the guy but why offer to lend it and then complain later?
If he'd just said no in the first place I certainly wouldn't have been offended but I felt like wrapping his guitar round his neck at the end of the evening!


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Willie-O
Date: 28 May 03 - 01:56 PM

I dunno, Les and C-flat, except I know that people are weird sometimes.   I'd like to think there's a lower proportion of musician jerks than in the population at large, but I reckon it's about the same, plus we have much more tendency towards eccentricity.

I'd err on the side of safety for the guitar. She'd likely have been a lot more bent out of shape if you'd sat and watched some kid knock her thousand-dollar instrument off a chair....


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 03 - 02:58 PM

In Answer to Guest and his "gee...why dont you check out the other gazillion threads on this same subject?" I'll tell you why because

A) I'm looking for advice that might work and apparently the gazillion threads on this subject don't seem to have come up with a solution to this problem.
And
B) I'm finding out just how many "MUCICIANS" feel the same as I do about my instruments.
And
C) What seems obvious is that from the replies so far to this thread is that I'm not on my own. In fact the only reply so far that has not backed up my concerns. Is from someone who has tried to kill this thread. He or She however has come on line as a Guest and I have to ask myself why? When as a font of this information he or she does not trust enough to join the Mudcat community or is a Mudcater who wishes to remain anonymous?

Is it because he or she thinks it's a good idea to borrow other people's instruments and because of this wishes to kill this thread? So he or she can carry on intimidating people into lending out there pride and joy.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST,Egal
Date: 28 May 03 - 03:29 PM

If a drunken person want's to borrow any of my instruments the answer is invariably NO.

If someone who has been respectful and taken part in the club/session
wishes to borrow one i will be HAPPY to lend one.

Why are you so bloody mean hearted? I don't think you are really a MUCICIAN(sic) if you aren't willing to SHARE your music.

So what if your instrument cost loads of money? it's the MUSIC that matters. It doesn't take a lot to assess if the prospective borrower is a bad risk


Some excellent players don't have the kind of cash to buy one of these super-duper guitars, give em a break.



I bet you don't let anyone use your china teaset either.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: curmudgeon
Date: 28 May 03 - 03:56 PM

I don't mind letting another guitar player use mine, as long as I know that he or she knows how and is willing to return it in the same tuning as when he got it. However, there are very few people that will get to even touch my concertina.

If I am in a situation where a song is wanted and I am "unarmed" then I am more than capable of singing without any accompaniment.

And, GUEST-Egal, before you criticise a named Mudcatter for a typo, check out yours; your glass house is in shards -- Tom


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST,Egal
Date: 28 May 03 - 04:02 PM

Check your own prose cumudgeon; he or she!

Anyone wanting to borrow a concertina??????????????????????


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: curmudgeon
Date: 28 May 03 - 04:12 PM

person want's to borrow
i will be
teaset
cumudgeon;


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 28 May 03 - 04:16 PM

My friends know better than to even ask...

Everyone else gets told "Nope... not on yer life..." with a smile...

My Band/music mates... sure... because I know and trust them...


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST,Egal
Date: 28 May 03 - 04:20 PM

Got me Curm.
Incidentally, my comments are not meant to be dammning,
simply a good natured rant.

Egg on face.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Dead Horse
Date: 28 May 03 - 05:06 PM

Fancy turning up to a thread and not having your own answer!
The nerve of some people!!!!
(%%%%%%% runs away in a cloud of gas)


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Raggytash
Date: 28 May 03 - 07:06 PM

George ............you'e just a tight b******d ..........and you've still got that tenner !!


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: curmudgeon
Date: 28 May 03 - 07:20 PM

No offense taken, Egal. But, in case you're new here, be advised that the use of all caps is the equivalent of shouting and may be easily misinterpreted.

Sharing of music and sharing of instruments is just not the same. In our sessions, there are a lot of regulars; some of us have been friends for nigh on to 40 years. Among us, there is no hesitation about instrument swapping. At times it is almost a necessity due to the somewhat cramped quarters we have to share with the general public. If everyone brought all the instruments that he/she plays, we'd lose valuable seats for singers.

However, if an inebriate staggers over from the bar, we clutch our instruments tightly to our bodies and offer to accompany the person if we are given a key.

Fortunately this is a very rare occurrence.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 03 - 10:00 PM

Well I'm sorry to tell you Guest Egal that I'm dyslexic, officially, now my Dyslexia is something I can't do anything about. To try to ensure that my spelling is readable I have to type out my threads in Word, which has a spell check. If that gets it wrong my Dyslexia means that I unable to proof read my threads. I'm in fact grateful to curmudgeon for two things one for pointing out that Guest Egal was in fact pointing out a Typo. The second is to tell me that using cap's is shouting, sorry I did not know that, in future I'll us cap's for that purpose as and when.

I should make it clear that I do from time to time lend out my Guitar. What this thread is about is how to stop people asking to borrow it and or to make it clear that refusal may not have anything to do with how well he or she can play.

I'm not going to sit hear and do a who's who of Guitarists who I have lent my Guitar to. That would be namedropping and I just don't need to do it people now just who I am and who my friends are.

The lending out of an instrument has nothing to do with the cost of the instrument. I think it's clear from the majority that an instrument does become special to the individuals who own it." Well I'm sorry I dropped your Stradivarius but it was only and old one!"

Instruments are unique they do have subtle differences somehow the molecules in their construction do change over time to enhance there performance. Guitar players also have subtle differences in there playing styles. Some have what I can only describe a clammy hands. Out of their hands and fingers seeps this acid like substance that turns new strings or old strings black. You can identified them easily just lend them your Guitar and your strings come back knackered. I have one mate who always because of sods law needs to borrow my guitar just when I've put on a new set of strings. Even though he will pay for a new set as he is awear of this problem. I still have to find the time not only to change that set but also to play them in.

The decision of who when and where someone decides to lend out an instrument is the decision of its owner is the point. The spelling errors and or grammar have nothing to do with it! Please Egan refrain from trying this tactic again with anyone especially myself. Because like it or not being dyslexic is a disability and having a go at someone who is dyslexic is not only an offence against the Disability Discriminations Act in the United Kingdom and also an act, which points its user out as a Bully in any country. Sneering and Bullying tack ticks do little to convince me to lend out my guitar or to make an argument for people to give up their ownership to the communal good or bad.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 29 May 03 - 12:32 AM

Come on won't cha?


Why can't cha?


........................................What's it gonna hurt?


I know what I'm doin - got one just like it.


No need to have an attitude!


...........................Ah was playin' before you ever learned to piss straight in a bucket.


Will ya, won't ya, can't cha, let me, PLEASE... have a chance?


Fuck off - You ain't so great anyway!



Print off these eight phrases - put them in your wallet. Look at them 10 times a week. And below them all write.



JUST SAY NO!



Sincerely,

Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 29 May 03 - 12:37 AM

Tyke - back off. Don't feed the troll!

I too am powerfully dyslexic. It makes for some of my greatest "creativity." It is a gift....not a "diability!" (If only more were so blessed.)

When the MudCat "critters" strike blood they return again and again (like bad karma) until you learn to ignore the slings and arrows of outragous insults.

PAX brother,

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 29 May 03 - 12:53 AM

My Martin DM - hummm nope and the reason is real simple, I don't own it second to play it a person needs to go the Martin Acoustic Guitar School, or go out and buy their own like we did.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 29 May 03 - 03:20 AM

Sometimes it works the other way ... Some while back my daughter made one of her rare visits to our folk club. She brought her then boyfriend, who plays lead guitar in a heavy metal band. (That's "LEED", not "LEDD", btw!) he was invited to sing, and asked if he could borrow a guitar, at which George Norriss, from the other side of the room, offered his [I can't remember who made it, but it's hand-made and very expensive] guitar; at the same time, the guy next to our lad offered his Ecko 12-string-restrung-as-a-six-string guitar (lead, pronounced "LEDD"). Not being very au fait with acoustic instruments, he took the nearest, and missed the chance of a lifetime.

Steve


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Hamish
Date: 29 May 03 - 03:41 AM

One that really perplexed me was the guy who wanted to borrow a harmonica. I really don't want someone else's bodily fluids dribbled into something I'll be putting into my mouth.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 May 03 - 05:14 AM

I can understand the harmonica - that's both sucked and blown so yes, bodily fluids.. eurgh!

I'm reliably informed that what comes out of the end of whistles and flutes is water, rather than dribble (but there are one or two 'moist' players that I would avoid sharing with), so I have no problem lending out any of my instruments... but then as I play percussion or recorders, no-one ever wants to borrow them anyway!

LTS


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 29 May 03 - 05:18 AM

I seem to recall someone's daughter borrowing my kazoo without asking...!


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 29 May 03 - 03:52 PM

Thank you Guest Gargoyle. I agree and understand about people who are dyslexic what we lack in one department we more than make up for in another. We take an over all view and base our conclusions on that. I have no wish to do an intelligence shoot out in reply I can appreciate the need we have for the less fortunate to do all the boring jobs that don't need a thinking and creative brain to do. My greatest challenge is getting past the pen pusher to his or her supervisor or higher up the management chain. At which point I can usually make my point or gather so new information to clarify things and put things straight. But don't feel too elitists about being Dyslexic as one in ten people are. Not all can join Mensa (I'm not a member I just took the test which I thought was so easy that joining was not worth bothering about!) some are not smart Dyslexics. The red tape and the system usually ends up putting them behind bars and or the Pen Pusher who can fill out the forms which effect there lives behind plate glass. The English prisons have quite a high population of prisoners who are Dyslexic. I'm not making that an excuse for whatever crime they have committed. But I would suggest that people who point out Typos as a put down just don't need ignoring. They need to be told in the somewhat vain hope that their abuse will stop. Perhaps there should be a compulsory GCSE in dyslexia for Pen Pushers and Jobsworths. I glad I didn't have a big go at people coming on line as Guests to put in their Fourpenarth. On the other hand I could have sent you a personal message with this information if you were not on line as a guest.

As it is I can only say and as Raggytash can testify I am quite capable of dishing it out to those who deserve it. As for owing Raggytash a pint he was there when the heckler interrupted me in full flow and was persistent. He was also amongst the musicians who this heckler ended up buying beer for after I had spoken to her telling her that that was what she should do so that we would call off the Strike and start playing again. The only reason he thinks I owe him beer is because when her friend tried the same thing after the bar had shut. It cost her a Tenor however I did give her a Coblers Monday CD as Raggytash was playing out of tune on the song she requested that cost her the money.

So let's get back to the thread how about: -

"If you want to buy me a pint I'll think about lending you my Guitar. Thank very much for the beer but the answer still no!"

Or

"Do I look like a Banjo Player!"

Or

"Here is a Stanly knife go and play that Bodran instead"

Come on we need more suggestions so that we can, not only make a point, but let those who are being badgered into lending know that they are not on their own. It may also point out to those doing the badgering just how out of order they are.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Raggytash
Date: 29 May 03 - 07:11 PM

I detect a slur, and you sire waffed a tenner at me, in a gesture I took as good faith!!!


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: JedMarum
Date: 29 May 03 - 07:27 PM

I had a drunk tell me one night, as the session was ending, "Oooo if I'd a' known you had harmnicas, I would a been playin' 'em."

I told him politely that "No he wouldn't have been playin' 'em." I said it with more patience then I really felt. I don;t feel too kind toword obnoxious drunks - it's a shortcoming, I guess. I enoy pleasant drunks - but I still wouldn;t let them play harmonicas.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 29 May 03 - 07:42 PM

Raggytash! There will be a pint waiting for you on the Bar of the Red Dragon in Kirby Lonsdale on the 14th of June from about 20.30. I went over to Kirby and checked it all out. There is also a field full of Sheep not far away for you to play with.

Well time for bed The Tykes News is out so I will be distributing it Friday night. See you if your at The General Lud, The Priory, The Grove on Friday Night.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST,Banjoma
Date: 30 May 03 - 06:11 AM

Here's a great way to say no:- When asked if you will lend your instrument (especially if its a whistle or harmonica) just ask "You havn't got aids have you? When the reply "No" comes back, you then say " well I have, but you're welcome to play it"
As for melodeons, any one who asks to borrow one should be allowed to keep it, so long as he departs the session immediatley with said instrument.
Seriously, my banjos & Guitars are very dear to me, and are well looked after. I hate anyone else (even my sons) playing them in an aggressive way or leaving sticky fingermarks on them.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST,Strollin' Johnny
Date: 30 May 03 - 08:34 AM

I only lend my Lowden or Martin to people whom I choose, not those who choose me. Usually works fine. However, I once took my Lowden to a new (to me) session at a pub, went to the bar for a beer and heard someone thrashing a guitar behind me. When I turned around I saw that the guitar was mine and was being held 'upside down' (i.e. left-handed) and hammered very hard by some harpie who had, two minutes earlier, asked (and been politely refused permission) to play it even though she admitted she wouldn't know where to start. A bystander later told me I looked like a frog in a blender as I leapt across the room (no mean feat at 17 stone!) and wrestled the daft bat to the ground in order to recover my guitar before any damage was done to it. She was so thick she didn't see what she'd done wrong, even when I explained it would cost her seventeen hundred quid if she broke it - told me I was a misery! What do you do with them?
SJ


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST,Allen Woodpecker
Date: 30 May 03 - 12:53 PM

If some one asks if they can play my (Seamus O'Kane) bodhran, I always reply with "I don't know. Can you?". If they can, they're more than welcome, but if they start slapping it with their hands, etc, I just take it back. I once asked a guy in a sesh if I could borrow his flute for a tune. He gave it to me, and I was playing something and the second time through the tune, he started saying things to me like "Stop hogging it", "Come on you've had enough", etc. As I played the first bars of the second part for the last time (i.e. nearly finished), he grabbed it out of my hands and said "Right, that's enough. You don't have to play it all night". I was so stunned I just sat there looking at him, until one of the other blokes there told him that was out of order and would he please leave, which he did.   Later discovered this guy is a serial a**hole. Why can't we all just get along??
a.w.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST,M'Grath of Altcar
Date: 30 May 03 - 01:56 PM

I ask for car keys as a deposit.

Or front teeth.

My Martin is played by family only.

And I don't care if people are offended by this


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 11:50 AM

I'm thinking it's time to refresh this thread for quite a few reasons. The main one is that all the scratches and knocks have been removed from my twenty year old Gurian. I've even bought it a new Hiscox case to try and keep it that way. So any future knocks and scratches, although I would hate to have any will in future hopefully be mine. Russ down at Hobgoblin, in Leeds in the UK, has done a great job on a complete refurbishment on my JMD1887. Now this refurbishment cost more that most people would pay for a new Guitar so if you are an itinerant Guitar borrower who is only impressed by money go here. However even if you ask and you are willing hand over the cash as a deposit and drinks all round the answer is still NO!
It's also NO! To my other Guitars! As Musical instruments to me and others are a very personal thing. I get very attached to my Guitars; I do not like to hand them over to others to play ether. If you are musician who is of the same mind, we should meet in a session, I will support your right to refuse the requests of these would be borrowers. If you are not a musician you should also support the right of refusal even if you think the borrower is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I already know that if you were or are the best thing since sliced bread you would not have asked.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: jacqui.c
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 02:00 PM

When Kendall and I go to the UK to visit he does not bring either his Taylor or his 12 string due to the baggage restrictions and the propensity of baggage handlers to destroy any musical instrument placed in their tender care.

We have been lucky in that someone either lends Kendall a spare guitar for the whole of his time in the UK or, when we go to sessions, someone is happy to let him use an instrument. In turn, we have lent guitars to Uk'ers at the Getaway.

I can see why a lot of musicians would not like to lend their machines. However, there can be genuine reasons why a musician has not got an instrument with them at any particular time. It all comes down to circumstances, I suppose.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 02:30 PM

"If anyone wanted to "borrow" my wife for a few minutes, they'd get a rude answer..................".

You have tied right into my response when asked by someone I do't know, or don't trust.

With the friendliest smile I can manage I say "Would YOU lend ME your girlfriend?"

My guitar is a part of me, and although I will lend it to people I trust, I'm never really happy until it's safely back in my hands.

The one thing that is guaranteed to get me royally p****d off is for anyone to pick up my guitar without asking. As far as I am concerned this is an absolute no-no, and something I have never done.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 03:35 PM

Don was that the smile with or without the front teeth? I have seen you lend your Framus to Billy - a rash thing but he does make nice music!

I would let Brian Rodgers play anything (preferably if it has Elixirs on as he does have acid finger) just to hear it played.

Subject as aforesaid: -

Anyone can play the Morris, or the Framus 12, or the no-brand 12 (when I have fixed it).

Most people I know can play the Mugen, or the early ladder-frame Hagstrom, or Simon's Yamaha 12.

A few can play the Martin OM1 or the latest Hagstrom

Almost no-one gets to play Jacqui's Hagstrom, but I made an exception for Martin Carthy.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: SussexCarole
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 04:18 PM

I let someone play my wooden flute in a session. What I hadn't realised was that the person who played it was a heavy smoker. It took weeks to get rid of the smell. Never again!


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 04:45 PM

I very rarely refuse anyone a go on my instruments. To refuse, I've got to be really fearful for there safety and that's probably only happened a couple of times. More usualy, I just keep a careful watch if concerned.

Borrowing instruments has halped me along the way, including trying instruments I've never even played before in pubs, and I try to be the same way with others.

Overall I suppose I could also say that the chance of someone finding interest or pleasure in one of my instruments is more precious to me than the instruments themselves (and no, I couldn't afford to jut go out and repair or replace a couple of them).


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Anne Lister
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 05:16 PM

My line has been for years that I don't even let my teddy bear touch my guitar (you can tell I work a lot in schools, huh?). I do, however, let people who I know play professionally play my beautiful Ralph Bown koa 0028 Martin look-a-like, on condition they give it back (which many of them are tempted not to do). But never if they're drunk. I bought a nice little Takamine once, thinking it would do for occasions when I was not playing music as the main reason for being somewhere (ie running a storytelling workshop) but the trouble is I just love my Bown guitar ..*sigh*.
I have twice had people help themselves to a go on it - I'm informed by many witnesses that they saw steam issuing from both ears and fire coming from my mouth but I don't think I've caused any actual bodily harm to anyone yet. Been a close run thing, though.

Anne Lister


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST,Seamus Kennedy
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 05:30 PM

At a session, I'll lend my guitar to anybody who asks as long as he isn't visibly drunk, and I'm there watching. I will take it away immediately if the player - drunk or sober - uses it as a percussion instrument.
This happened last summer at a session in Hoban's pub in Westport, Co. Mayo. A young fella asked if he could borrow my guitar, I said 'Sure,' and handed it over. Well, he started battering the lower bout in between chording (which he appeared to do quite well) and he had a handful of rings, which made it sound like a snare drum.
I instantly put my hand around the neck in mid-strum, and said 'It's a guitar, not a drum.' and took it off him.
He was miffed, but the session players applauded me, so he left in a huff.

Seamus


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 08:00 PM

"Don was that the smile with or without the front teeth? I have seen you lend your Framus to Billy - a rash thing but he does make nice music!"

Hi Richard,

Wivout teef is the only one I have right now, tho' that should change later in the year. The sight of the two canines with nothing between (a la Dracula) does seem to discourage argument.

Re Billy, that was a mistake I made just twice. The second time he was rat arsed, and I grabbed the instrument back in mid song when he swung the headstock into the table edge. No damage, fortunately, but he'll never get another chance.

The aforementioned Brian Rogers is the one person who could pick it up without asking, and not be told off, but then it's his skill in setting it up that made it the fine instrument it is today.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 09:41 PM

Well yes I know baggage handlers have an allegedly a bad reputation. I'm also sure Kendal appreciates friends lending him a Guitar for his whole visit to the UK. But that is a bit different to some stranger asking to borrow and instrument in a session in a pub.

I'm not having a getting at you however just I just wanted to point out that buying a Guitar in the States has in the past been considerably cheaper then in the UK. So if I were going to the States I would take an Empty Strong but Old Guitar Case with me. I would bring back the case to the UK with a Guitar in it for my own use naturally, and not for resale, to remind me of the friends I had met across the pond. Why use an Old Battered but Strong Case well we wouldn't want the to distract the customs officers away from looking for drugs and to start looking for Guitars to slap on import duty especially if you returned to the States with an Empty Case or no case at all.

Check out the prices in the UK apparently its not just Guitars that are cheaper in the USA. I could be worth your while. Even if prices are the same due to exchange rates you will have 50% less risk of damage on your flight if it's a one way trip for the Guitar.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: jacqui.c
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 07:35 AM

Tyke - we're over quite a lot and with a fair amount of luggage. (Goodies for my family in the UK mostly). An extra piece of luggage in the form of a guitar would be inconvenient at the best of times.

Kendall works on a quid pro quo - his 12 string was lent to El Greko at last year's Getaway and my Martin to KT from Alaska. Kendall would never use someone else's guitar without asking though, that just isn't done!


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 12:40 PM

Drat! I've tipped off the customs and excise for nothing. Just have a safe journey and a good holiday that's the main thing.
Tyke


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 12:54 PM

Jacqui - different scenario when you know the borrower (helps if you happen to like him/her too!). As you know, I'm happy to let Kendall play my guitar any time, because I know and trust him. Similarly Sooz's husband Mike, or several others (some of them also 'Catters) whom I know and respect.

I started this thread really because I was horrified by the ignorance of a twerp in a pub who just assumed that 'No' meant 'Yes' and that, because my guitar was lying on a seat, it was available for her to abuse. She learned the hard way!

All the best Jacqui, hope you can both make it our way next time you're over here.

John
S:0)


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: jacqui.c
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 09:13 AM

John - I'll be based in Newark this time - childminding my grandson while Mum works. Hopefully I should be able to make Gainsborough this go round.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 09:15 AM

Hope so Jacqui. Look forward to seeing (and hearing) you (and Kendall too!)
S:0)


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: jacqui.c
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 12:45 PM

I'll be on my own this time - we got Kendall out of Maine once this year but any more than that would be a miracle!


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Scrump
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 05:48 AM

From: Don(Wyziwyg)T - PM

"If anyone wanted to "borrow" my wife for a few minutes, they'd get a rude answer..................".

You have tied right into my response when asked by someone I do't know, or don't trust.

With the friendliest smile I can manage I say "Would YOU lend ME your girlfriend?"
----------------------
Ooerr, not a good move. I once said that and the guy said "OK, it's a fair swap!" You should have seen her - she must've weighed 28 stone if she weighed an ounce, with a face like the back end of a tram :)

Just kidding :)

If asked to lend my guitar I just say, politely but firmly: "Sorry, but I once lent my guitar to a stranger and it got wrecked. I had to spend £200 to get it fixed. So now my policy is never to lend my instruments to anyone else, no exceptions". That seems to work. Even if it's not true, you could try that - the would-be borrower isn't to know ;-)

Of course, if I know the person already and know they can play (e.g. if they turned up straight from working late, without their own guitar) I'll happily oblige, as I know they'd do the same for me.

If I turn up at a folk club as a stranger myself and am asked to do a song, if anyone offers to lend me an instrument I'll borrow it of course, and I'll take care not to play it too roughly and cause them any alarm, even if I have to subdue my own performance somewhat to match. Otherwise, I'll just sing a song unaccompanied. I did that recently with a song I'd never sung unaccompanied before, and it was interesting adapting it on the fly, to avoid the instrumental bits between verses. It went down OK though. It may even have added to the performance in some way as the audience were able to focus on the lyrics.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Red and White Rabbit
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 03:49 AM

Tyke I would never ask to borrow your guitar - I remember in Robin Hoods Bay when I was looking after it during one of your little boys breaks and Les and Maggie hid it - good job St johns ambulance were at hand!!!

seriously though it was the problems of 'borrowing' that set up my 'have a go' workshop - if you can play then you usually have your own and dont need to borrow ( or other people will offer to lend without asking because they know you can play)
Children and non instrumentalists on the other hand often are desperate to try out an instrument. Some musicians look down their noses at some of the instruments I have which have been bought or donated with the aim of letting people 'try before they buy'but I am doing my bit to encourage people to have their own and if the instruments were Martins etc that had cost me an arm and a leg I doubt if I would be lending them out!

The only half decent instrument I let people have go on is my appalacian dulcimer mostly because people dont know what it is and I am trying to increase the numbers of people playing it so I am not the only one taking up room in a session!


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 09:27 PM

In one late night session in Girvan, I renamed my guitar the "communal instrument" as I think about 6 different people played it. If they can all play guitar, why don't they bring their own? As it happens, they all treated it with respect, and they all used different styles which made the one instrument sound like 6 different ones. It doesn't have a scratch plate and I use light strings so my main worry (apart from it getting dropped or bashed) is the "big strum" guys who thrash the casing in their "follow-through" and break the strings.
Oh........... and on another subject, am I the only person in the world who carries spare strings or am I just soft? I seem to be forever giving them away to people who have broken one, and I never get any back - even the cheaper ones are now over a £ a string!


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 09:53 PM

In one late night session in Girvan, I renamed my guitar the "communal instrument" as I think about 6 different people played it. If they can all play guitar, why don't they bring their own?

Did they have other instruments? I'd usualy take a tenor banjo with me to a session but if a session went on late and turned (I tend to go to mostly instrumental) to singing, I could well ask to borrow a guitar for a song.

I've not brought a guitar to some events as apart from extra carrying, the space extra guitars if everyone that could play one brought one would be a nuisance.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GerryMc
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 06:16 AM

I once lent my guitar to a fine singer and player who respected the instrument, treated it well and put on a damn fine performance. I then put the instrument back in its case where it remained till the following Wednesday (this was a Saturday).

When I took the guitar out of its case to do me two numbers at the folk club, the guitar sounded as if the strings had been on for several months. I should have known better as Smurf has borrowed my guitars in the past and wiped out a set of new strings in just one song.

If the fine singer who I mentioned earlier ever becomes famous (which he might), I shall sell the story of his acid fingers to The Sun for a six-figure sum.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 07:26 AM

You can buy a plastic 'earthenware pot sealer' in a spray can - squirt his fingers with that, and it will keep the moisture and oils off the strings... :-)


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Mooh
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 08:30 AM

I'm waiting for a certain pain-in-the-ass to ask to borrow my Telecaster again. Won't he be surprised to find it has no frets above the fifth...that'll stop his wanking in a hurry...he can hardly find the right notes with frets.

A year ago I bought a student guitar (A&L folk cedar, orange, so it's known as The Pumpkin) so that students who are unable to bring their own have a decent guitar for their lesson. It's also the loaner/beater for, "Hey man, gimme your axe, will ya!" moments. Nobody (okay, maybe my luthier friends, and I will admit to letting [here's some name dropping] Tony McManus and Simon Mayor take one for a spin) gets to play my real guitars, but I like the cred I get for having a loaner/beater.

Seriously, there's nothing more horrifying for a working musician to find than some drunk jamming on their axe while they're in the loo between sets. Always carry a spare.

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 04:46 PM

Guest, Jon: most of them didn't have ANY instruments with them: one had a bouzouki. Have to confess to asking for a borrow last Saturday night, when we had just come out of concert and went on to a session which was due to finish very shortly. My guitar was 15mins walk away in my car, so we decided to just go straight to the sesh. I wasn't the first to borrow same guitar, and the owner seemed happy enough to lend it. Don't think I have the rusty finger problem either.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 08:01 AM

My reasons for adding to this thread and bring it back to your attention are due to a conversation I had with a Mudcater recently. I am not going to identify the person or the instrument because this person was too frightened to say no I'm sorry I do not lend out my instrument to this borrower of musical instruments.

Was this persistent borrower a stranger a drunk in a public house?

NO!
It was a Mudcater!

Shame on you for asking in the first place and even more Shame for frightening and bulling someone into lending out their instrument.

So please will all decent Mudcaters, Non Members and session organizers please help to put these Bully's in their place.

Suggestions welcomed on how to deal with these people when you see it happening.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 08:57 AM

I have a new format for refusing, I just say "Sorry but it's only insured for me"
Will lend it to certain people in certain circumstances, apart from that someone would need to pay a deposit of about £2000, before they get their mitts on my guitar.
G ¦¬]


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: kendall
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 09:22 AM

I'll lend my guitar to anyone if I know them, but a drunk in a pub? No way.
My instruments are insured, but it's only money and neither of these guitars could be replaced for any amount

For someone to just grab my guitar without asking would be almost as dangerous if he groped my wife.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 12:22 PM

Well, as a sometimes visitor from the States, it's not feasible for me to bring a guitar over (I do bring a banjeurine that fits in an overhead luggage rack.)If I'm asked to sing in a pub, I've been lucky enough to have folks lend me their instruments.
    I find that flatly stating that I don't use pick nor fingerpicks seems to alleviate at least some trepidations.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 01:56 PM

The decision to lend or not to lend is up to the individual and yes there are certain circumstances when, as with Dick Greenhaus, you are unable to bring your own instrument. Prior arrangements can be made to help out and lend instruments in special circumstances.

I have myself stepped forward and lent people my Guitar when the need has arisen, as for an example a Guest on stage breaking a string. But this is not about prior arrangements or making sure a concert Guest can give his or her best.

This is about anyone who thinks that putting people on the spot to insist that they have the right to borrow anyone else's instrument. But when other so called musicians who should know better use tactics that make people too frightened to say no It has to be wrong and even more wrong when they purport to be member of the Mudcat. In this case the repeat offender has been told time and time again ether directly or by the use of this thread for the past 4 years. Drunkards can at lease be given the benefit of their ignorance but how do you say no to them when they have seen instruments being lent out wily nily.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 02:59 PM

Tyke ,it all depends on the situation ,im sure if I was guesting in a club and a spring broke on my concertina,a concertinist would lend me their concertina .If someone Iknew,like Lou Killen,Damien Barber , Keith Kendrick,Alistair Anderson,Roy Clinging,asked the answer would be yes,because I could trust them.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Bert
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 03:47 PM

I don't have a problem lending my guitar, it wasn't too expensive.

Trouble is the buggers always make it sound better!!!


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Sorcha
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 04:57 PM

Well, I was without my fiddle at Sharp House in London. We'd been tramping all over doing the tourist thing and I didn't want to carry her all day. Tom Paley offered me his fiddle. I had already borrowed one tho.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Greg B
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 05:18 PM

At Sharps, someone volunteered his Castagnari Tommy for my
use, nearly out of the blue.

I was truly touched by that gesture.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 06:10 PM

I'm just guessing here Captain Birdseye, I don't play a concertina, but I would like to bet that you have your Concertina set up just the way you like it. I'm sure you would lend out your concertina to someone in an emergency. Even though there playing style might conflict with your own and the possible excess strain on its springs could make an early service necessary. Then there is the chance of the grunge that seems to poor out from some people's fingers making at best a mess of your buttons. Yes and you, I we would still lend instruments out in case of and emergency.

But what we have here is someone feeling bullied into lending out an instrument. Well I just don't see that as right! My view is that the borrower is showing little respect towards the person who they are subjecting this abuse. Goodness knows just what respect they are showing towards the borrowed instrument.

Saying no has little to do with the cost of the instrument. It's about people's relationships with there instruments. Please can we all help and stand up for peoples right to say no!


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Jim Lad
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 06:57 PM

You know, I just realized that this hasn't happened for a while. It did when I was young and innocent looking.
Here's one though.
A friend of mine owned The Red Lion in Powell river & I did a few gigs for him. The town is full of old Pipe Band members and there are some fine Pipers and Drummers there.
During the break, I lent my Banjo to a drummer who sat and played various, intricate rhythm patterns on it for about twenty minutes.
Best the damn thing has ever sounded.
Makes a marvelous bat as well.
Cheers!
Jim


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 07:14 PM

Suport the right of banjo players to say NO! But don't tell them I said so!


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Rockhen
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 07:33 PM

I know most people are discussing guitars and similar instruments but I often take my piano (yep, a nasty tinkly thing, lol!) to music nights. It is not that heavy but, with the case is damned awkward to lug in and out. I have some great mates who always help if they are there but sometimes have to manage it, the stand, my accordion, etc, which is a bit of a pain. I don't mind people using my piano,(it is an electric creature with less personality than other instruments, I own, ) if they ask, but I do mind people just getting up, playing it, without asking, then sitting down, and...then watching me struggling to carry it out at the end of the night, without offering to give a hand, or at least saying thanks. People wouldn't go and help themselves to someone's guitar without asking, well not usually, anyway! As for my accordion, no one ever asked to borrow it, (ok ok accordion jokes..........!)but I think I would feel very uncomfortable and not happy about lending it out unless I knew the person well and that they would play it carefully. It is fairly fragile and would not stand up to being knocked. Someone once asked to borrow my saxophone, yeuckkk! I made the excuse that I had a bad cold, (I didn't) and said, no. Some people are really thick skinned and oblivious to reading vibes. I wouldn't dream of asking to borrow that sort of instrument, bleughhhhh!


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Bernard
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 07:42 PM

As Dick mentioned above, it's not easy for him to bring an instrument to the UK. I'm one of the people who has lent him a guitar to play on such occasions.

The instrument I usually have with me is a cheap (but adequate) Yamaha F340 which, as others have already suggested, is one I'm not particularly attached to, but I would rather not see it trashed.

I'm not in the habit of lending my better guitars out, though Dick knows he'd be an exception to that 'rule'... and not many people share that distinction.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Gulliver
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 10:35 PM

I'll lend my guitar (Lowden, expensive) or banjo to anyone who can stand up straight. It's got a few scratches as a result, but what the hell... Gives it a bit of character, and doesn't affect the sound.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: rock chick
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 11:07 PM

I loaned mine out once and had to stop the guy half way through as he was truly abusing it, I had no problem walking ( very quickly) up to him and retrieving it back pronto. I now will only lend it to someone I know, all the rest will get a very polite no. If they want to play then they should bring their own instruments, it a bit like asking if they can borrow your partner!!! And well we know what our answers would be then, well I do anyway. ;-)


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST,Texas Guest
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 11:57 PM

I will let anyone, at any gig (except festival shows where I don't feel that the option is mine to grant)come up and sing or play - but they will have their own instrument or be accompanied by me and my guitar. Simple; plain; and, across-the-board. I cannot accurately gauge a strangers emotional and/or physical state in a pub situation -and I shouldn't have to - therefore, no one uses my guitars, period. God, I'm stingy; but my guitars all work just fine. Cheers.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Grab
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 05:02 AM

No problems lending anything of mine to anyone who's fairly sober. Drunks get refused politely. But I *do* choose instruments to suit environment. If I'm going to be in a tightly-packed session where there's a significant risk of things getting bashed, I'll probably bring my steel-body resonator, on the grounds that anything it collides with is likely to come off worse (including chairs, tables, the floor, other musicians... ;-)

Graham.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Anne Lister
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 05:15 AM

I once made the mistake of lending my (custom built Ralph Bown) guitar to someone who seemed like a nice chap. He then proceeded to thrash it in "accompaniment" to a song as if it was a piece of chipboard. Everyone around stood with their mouths open in disbelief. Luckily (and it was luck) the guitar was undamaged, but that's the last time I have considered lending the guitar to anyone whose musicianship I didn't know and trust.
I've also been in situations where I've made an effort to take my guitar with me to another country and met people who fancy having a go on it ...the stock line from them is "but it's so hard to travel with a guitar", as if I didn't know! And no, I don't lend the guitar to them and always feel hard-hearted.
In theory I have a less wonderful guitar (a nice little Takamine) for this sort of thing. In practice I prefer to play my Bown!


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 03:14 PM


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 03:23 PM


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 03:29 PM

I didn't mean to post anything. The first time, I just moved the mouse and accidentally clicked the submit button. Then I managed to do it again. Now that I'm here, I might as well join in the discussion.

There's nothing I like more than hearing someone else produce good music from one of my instruments. I did lend my guitar to someone who took it across the room and left it leaning it up against a post. When it came crashing to the floor, I retrieved it immediately and fortunately there was no harm done. Now I make sure that my instruments stay close - that way I can keep an eye on them and get to enjoy what's being played.

DC


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Gulliver
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 05:11 PM

Hiya Doug--thanks for lending me your prized mandolin in Germany!


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 05:34 PM

Now there's a good example. Without Don playing my mandolin, it wouldn't have been half as much fun for me playing the fiddle.

DC


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Jim Lad
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 06:00 PM

"There's nothing I like more than hearing someone else produce good music from one of my instruments."
We're at the wrong side of our instruments. Well said, Doug.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Peace
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 06:41 PM

"As politely as you can, say no."

After the first no, polite has nothing to do with it.

There are about five people I would lend my guitar to--whether for a song or a month. Most people ain't on that VERY short list.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Dame Pattie Smith EPNS
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 06:44 PM

Over the years in sessions when I`ve left my spoons on the table while I've played my concertina somebody has always picked them up and had a go at them. They seem to think that they are not an instrument, just two spoons and don`t even ask. You may think me crazy but I KNOW when someone has played my spoons (or not). They just feel different and they are every bit as important as my concertina or my fiddle. Now I just put them in my handbag instead....


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: slowerairs
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 07:07 PM

How about a sign on the entrance to pub, stating

THE MAN WHO LENDS MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS, IS UNAVAILABLE THIS EVENING.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Howard Jones
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 07:12 PM

When I was young and stupid, I was used to playing in sessions where it was quite acceptable to pick up and play an unattended instrument. However we all knew each other, and none of us had particularly valuable or special instruments. Then I visited another area and got into a session, and picked up a spare mandolin. The owner was surprisingly reasonable about it, but did request that before I borrowed his antique Gibson it would be nice to ask.

I was suitably chastened. However I hope I treated it with respect.

Now I'm older (although probably still stupid) I would be more careful. If for some reason I've turned up without an instrument, I would ask before borrowing, try to demonstrate that I know what I'm doing, and would never re-tune without permission.

But I wouldn't let anyone borrow my Guild guitar, although it helps that I use a tuning even more obscure than DADGAD. And don't even ask about my concertinas...


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 07:23 PM

In the old days, Suffolk pubs had a melodeon behind the bar for anyone to play. Perhaps there ought to be a pub guitar for those who can't or won't bring one to the session.
I would be very careful about lending out my Concertina. Capt Birdseye borrowed it on one occasion at Bishops' Stortford some years ago, just to try it out. He seemed so taken with it I thought I would never get the thing back!


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Jim Lad
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 07:23 PM

"Mind if I batter on your guitar for a wee minute, Jim?" ...Uttered by one of my cousins at a party. Very tongue in cheek though.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 07:26 PM

Do you know Dame Pattie Smith EPNS that people are still talking about you and your exploits at Holmfirth F. O. F. I think you spoons workshop went down well too :-)

But yes I agree its not what they cost or what kind but instruments have feelings too and they often sulk after being in strange hands. The trouble is that the people who ask to borrow or who just pick them up and play them with out asking are the very people who should not be playing them.

If you see it happening please point out to the offending er er person, politely, the error of there ways. I they get nasty feel free to draw this to the attention of the Landlord it is after all his ultimate responsibility.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 10:42 PM

If I know the person asking, I'll probably let them use my guitar. Sometimes I've asked to borrow a standard tuned guitar for one of my turns in a song circle, because I'm too lazy to retune my own. But I wouldn't be offended if no one let me. Since I'm a known commodity, they usually do, in this circumstance. If I were visiting a new session, where I'm not known, I'd probably sit and listen and decide to bring my guitar or not on a future visit.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 11:05 PM

Look...Some things are of value....others are not.



IF ...YOU are willing to lend the item (and the item is valued less than the friendship....) it is willfully, and gleefuly lent.



If the friendship is valued greater than the item....and the loss of the item might endanger friendship.....NEVER LEND to a FRIEND.



Sincerely,

Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 11:08 PM

I will lend ANY instrument within my immediate possesion (mine or otherwise) I expect to learn and be enthused and entertained.

Three things should not be lent: spouse, backpack, boots.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 03:21 AM

I was at a session on Sunday night, and someone asked to borrow the guitar of an excellent musician who was present. After reading this thread, I tensed...but the guitar was freely and cheerfully handed over.

"Hmmm, not a Mudcatter then," I thought...
    Please note that anonymous posting is no longer allowed at Mudcat. Use a consistent name when you post, or your messages risk being deleted.
    Thanks.
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 04:05 AM

There are, it seems, very few disaster stories...


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 04:24 AM

Tabster, Mary Humphreys,BernardThanks.Yes I agree with you Tyke,


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Gulliver
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 09:39 AM

I had a think about this last night, and I cannot recall anyone ever being refused the loan of an instrument at any session I was at in Dublin (or any place else for that matter, but I live in Dublin and attend a minimum of 3 pub sessions there a week). Could be guitar, banjo, mandolin, or even fiddle. In fact, anyone who wants to sing a song is usually asked if they'd like to borrow a guitar.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 10:41 AM

I wont lend anyone my mouth organ ,Its a goodway of picking up an infection.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 04:19 PM

My wife's previous husband was dying of cancer, and I came to visit and sing with him about three weeks before he died. I was fooling around on my harmonica, but not playing it very well. He asked to borrow it. I admit I was a little squeamish, but I handed it over. He played "I'll Fly Away" more beautifully than I had ever heard it before.

That's what I sang at the end of his funeral, four weeks later. I scattered some of his ashes in the garden where he sat and played that song for me.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 05:28 PM

"For someone to just grab my guitar without asking would be almost as dangerous if he groped my wife."

I'd subscribe to that Kendall, tho' if my wife and my guitar were being groped at the same time, I could safely rescue the guitar. The wife's assailant would be lucky indeed if he only lost one hand.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: PoppaGator
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 05:44 PM

Joe, you can't catch cancer from saliva, However, I can certainly understand feeling a bit squeamish in the presence of teminal disease ~ knowing intellectually that something is "safe" is not the same as feeling secure.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 08:06 PM

As someone said above- depends who's playing it!
I have 2 guitars - a cheapo I take to sessions (tho' it doesn't sound that bad), and a better one for "performances". I was sitting with my cheapo at a session in Sidmouth last year when in walked Lulo Reinhardt (? nephew of Django), sat down beside me and asked if he could borrow my guitar. My reaction - "Well at least someone lend him a decent one" - but he played MINE - like a dream!! It really made the decade for another musician who plays jazz guitar and played along with him! I felt like painting on it "Lulo Reinhardt played this guitar" - and then maybe putting it on Ebay!

And it's not just instruments that get borrowed and sometimes mal-treated. I was at a Singers' session and left a pretty old book of songs on the table by my seat: I had to leave the room on some organisational duties, and arrived back to find my precious book up on a music stand with the spine bent right back. The person concerned had not asked my permission to borrow the book, nor to bend it right back and split the spine - and to add insult to injury, he couldn't even sing the song he had chosen to the correct tune! I did go up and tell him not to bend my book back, but kept quiet about the rest.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Gulliver
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 09:02 PM

For someone to just grab my guitar without asking would be almost as dangerous if he groped my wife.

There's a whole branch of psychiatry dealing with folks uncomfortable with their sexual desires for a real person, and substituting a fetish.

In this case a guitar?


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 06 Jun 07 - 03:57 PM

Good idea not to do it then Gulliver for true or imagined will just as upsetting for that person. It will ruin his or her night and probably put a damper on the whole session if not end it abruptly.

I wont be offended if asked not to smoke but I will show my displeasure if someone messes with my Guitar without asking. The majority of people in this discussion are I think in agreement with it being an individual's choice to lend or not to lend.

I refreshed this thread Gulliver because someone came to me and complained that he or she (I am not going to say who) felt to frightened to say no. I think that if you think that it is ok to be intimidated into doing something that they do not want to. You have a serious problem and should seek advice before its too late and you loose all your friends.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Gulliver
Date: 06 Jun 07 - 06:55 PM

Yes, Tyke, I agree with what you say.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 06 Jun 07 - 07:49 PM

Ok Gulliver no problem hope to see you sticking up for peoples rights. I know its the old I took my Harp to a party thing but better to carry round your harp on the off chance than to sit itching to join in.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: coldjam
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 01:39 PM

John 'Giok' MacKensie wrote:
I have a new format for refusing, I just say "Sorry but it's only insured for me"


BINGO! Since my husband started using this a few years back we've had NO problem. Even the inebriated seem to respect "insurance".


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Midchuck
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 01:59 PM

How about "Sure, you can play it, as long as I can grope your date while you're doing so."?

Trouble is, of course, the guy might agree and his date might not be someone I want any contact with.

More seriously, I have several guitars of varying degrees of quality. The better ones, nobody else plays unless he/she can play as well as, or better than, me (there are a lot of those, I assure you), and is cold sober. But I try to make it a point to take one I care less about if I'm going where there are dubbers who may be drinking.

P.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 06:16 AM

Well time to pack my guitar into a case that I use to carry it about in Whitby and Robin Hoods bay. It's of a Nylon canvas construction with a thin veneer of wood and then Polystyrene and very light weight. It has a couple of good-sized pockets for picks, strings, tuners, set of pliers and other tools. I t can also hold 4 mouth organs and a hands free holder for the latter. It's the third case of this type I have bought one I lent to someone so that they could take their Guitar to the Philippians the second lasted about three years before it got a bit worse for ware. Still they only cost about £30 each and are just that bit stronger than a gig bag and the Polystyrene keep the instrument away from extremes of temperatures.

Its has two straps so I can carry it on my back leaving my hands free to help anyone push a Grand Piano back up the hill from the Dolphin at the bottom of the hill in Robin Hoods Bay back up to the campsite. Well at least they did take their own instruments I'm also quite happy to carry any Banjos up the hill although it will have to be the next morning. Just pile them up on the beach and I'll collect them the next day :-).


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Blues=Life
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 04:12 PM

I guess for me it depends on the setting and the guitar. I have two Tacomas that I would never lend in a bar setting, and would gladly lend to another player sitting in my living room. I like the jealous looks, but hate drunken damage. I also have a perfect Telecaster that I let several different teenagers play during a Battle of the Bands I was helping to run. I figured that if they passed through an audition to get there, they could be trusted with my baby. They all loved the axe, but one of them looked really nervous when I braced him following his performance. I looked down on him (they don't call me Big Ugly for nothing) and growled, "I am not happy with what you did with that guitar!" He stammered out a "What did I do?" and looked like he was going to have to change his pants. "You spoiled it, that's what. Now she's going to expect ME to play that well!" At that point he got the compliment, and all he could say after that was, "Man, what a great guitar!"

Having said all that, it's your guitar. You don't have to make nice, you don't have to explain yourself. If you do not wish to lend your guitar, and the person asking doesn't understand a smile and a "No, thanks, I don't think so," then all you got to do is say, "What part of no do you not understand?" It's your baby. No justification needed. (Although I do like the "I didn't ask to f*** your wife, so why ask me about my guitar?" school of thought.)

No, No, No, HELL NO.

That's fine with me. You only gots to be polite the first time.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 04:39 PM

Nice one Blues=Life lets get the borrowers told!!


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 10:03 AM

Refresh


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 12:44 PM

Some open mic hosts provide a cheap guitar specifically for those who come along and ask to borrow one.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 05:32 PM

The host being the Landlord?


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Sep 09 - 06:02 PM

nobody is allowed to play my oboe without my permission,sorry but its only insured for me.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Duke
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 05:56 PM

I lent my J-45 to a very close friend. While he was on stage, playing a classical guitar, my gibson fell from the stage. It landed on the head and did a complete summersault and landed flat on its back. I guess the air pressure saved it from crashing as the only damage was that one of the machine heads got slightly bent. Accidents do happen!


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Blues=Life
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 09:00 PM

Tyke, we don't have landlords at bars here in the States. Many bars hire a "host" to organize and supervise an open mic night. He or she will get the music going by performing a few numbers, often with a house band (sometimes paid, sometimes volunteer). The host also takes signups from those who want to participate, and will often pair up like minded players to take over for house band members. I.e., if a kid who plays drums comes up to play, the host might put them on stage with an experienced guitarist, bassist, and vocalist. It's quite an art form to watch a good host organize the different levels of talent. And yes, often they have a good "loaner" guitar for those who want to participate. It saves a lot of issues to keep the wannabees off of your Martin, for instance. :)


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 11:30 PM

Actually Dick's answer three back provides the perfect, polite, turndown to which nobody could object ? 'sorry, lending out is specifically forbidden in my insurance policy'.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 12:30 AM

My instruments are insured in my own home however when I looked into insuring them at gigs I found that they would only be insured on a stage that was 2ft high. Not a lot of them about over here in pub's and clubs so it's not practical. In any event at least one of my instruments would be very difficult to replace.

I started this Thread and refreshed it just to make people aware that they should not feel alone in their dislike of being asked to lend out instruments. Landlords will hopefully take note that they should be supportive when a musician say's no sorry I don't.

You are not being mean or grumpy saying no and hopefully others will support you when you do say no.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Blues=Life
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 02:29 PM

Ya know, instruments are one of the few things that people really try to guilt you into lending. If I asked to borrow your car, your home, your toothbrush, your wife, your suit, or your camera, and you said no, it would seem to most people as over the line to say "Come on, let me... let me!" So why shouldn't we be just as "unguilted" when we say No to something as intimate as our instrument?

Like I said before, "No, no, no, Hell No!"


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 04:26 PM

Tyke

That anon Guest post on 26th was me (away from home). Host of an open mic can be the landlord, but more commonly someone hired specially to run the OM. He/she is the one who gets asked most for the lend of a guitar, so they soon get wise and provide one for borrowers!

Sue


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 06:05 PM

Hi Sue a Pub or club guitar used to feature in a couple of Pubs in Whitby. It's a great Idea for those too lazy to bring their own and so that the rest can point at said instrument and no you can't borrow mine but the landlord has one you can borrow. Its great when that happens however you still get the odd moron.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST,Pierre Le Chapeau.
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 11:19 PM

The answer is folks if the person who borrows Your Guitar breaks it will He /She pay for the repair or come out with the FACT "that you should not have let them borrow it in the first place. I only lend my guitar to a very selected few and thats all there is to it.
regards Pierre.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Blues=Life
Date: 22 Jan 10 - 08:39 AM

Yeah, drunks always say, "C'mon, I won't hurt it... and if I do, I'll pay for it." The problem, of course, is that they are drunk. Legally, they are not competent to enter into any contract, verbal or otherwise. They are drunk. Intellectually, they can't comprehend that the replace cost of your guitar is in the thousands of dollars. They are drunk. And like Pierre said, "You should not have let them borrow it in the first place" because the onus is on you to make a smart decision about your instrument. They are too drunk to be smart.

"No, no, no, Hell No!"

:)


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 14 Aug 12 - 04:35 PM

Refresh


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Aug 12 - 04:50 PM

"I started this Thread and refreshed it just to make people aware that they should not feel alone in their dislike of being asked to lend out instruments."

If you know me well enough to think of borrowing my guitar then you also know me well enough to understand there's no point asking.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Leadfingers
Date: 14 Aug 12 - 05:38 PM

Now that my (owned from new) 1970 D35 is virtually retired I dont get asked so often ! The Stock "IF you want to play a Martin in a session BUY one" usually worked for me , even with the guy who went out to his car and brought his own D35 in !!!
Any one picking up ANY of my other instruments without asking is risking injury !


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: meself
Date: 14 Aug 12 - 05:49 PM

Yeah, but we aren't all as tough as you.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Ole Juul
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 12:24 AM

A musician wouldn't expect another musician to lend their instrument. In professional circles it's even impolite to ask. Unfortunately, social rules are sometimes under suspension while under the influence. Bring an extra guitar with an inch high action and frayed strings.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 03:37 AM

one good thing about playing the banjo is that you almost never get asked!

The other thing is that at most of the sessions I go to, anyone asking will be either better than me, play something I don't know, or both.

19-fret tenors are easy to find, offer a good range of choice and cheap when found, unlike the 17-fret sort; and I've rather come to the conclusion that a fair number of players, myself included, really aren't fast or fancy enough for it to make any difference which sort they play.

So I don't really have many problems that way.


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 04:22 AM

Yea. Bring the cheapest piece of Chinese crap you can find. And smash it up like Pete Townsend. Then hand it to them to play.
(:-( D)=


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Subject: RE: Lending instruments especially in Pubs
From: Tyke
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 08:45 PM

I don't mind lending out my Blues Harp I don't play it much anyway. But I always carry it in it's case as I find that it the best thing for scraching my Piles when they start to itch!


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