BS: British soldier arrested on suspicion of

Subject: BS: British soldier arrested on suspicion of
From: ard mhacha
Date: 30 May 03 - 03:18 PM

Allegations that Iraqi POW`s were mistreated by UK troops are being investigated after photograps allegedy showing the abuse were discovered.

A British soldier has been arrested on suspicion of taking the pictures, including one showing an Iraqi, bound and gagged, hanging from netting on a fork-lift truck.

Staff at the photo developing shop in Tamworth Staffordshire, were shocked at the films contents and called in the police.

My goodness who would have thought, one windbag officer spluttered " this is dreadful, giving our army a bad name".
For further info go to the BBC News. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: BS: British soldier arrested on suspicion of
From: DougR
Date: 30 May 03 - 04:17 PM

It is difficult for me to understand, AM, why some Mudcatters post with such glee, transgressions of soldiers who are among the coalition forces. Have you also read of the atrocoties of Saddam, his sons, his regime, committed on the people of Iraq? I've not noted any postings bewaling the treatment Saddam and his henchmen meted out.

Have you seen the news reports of people digging for their loved ones with only their bare hands in piles of corpses which resulted from the tyranny of Saddam and his thugs.

I don't doubt the veracity of the story you refer us to, I merely question why you felt it was so necessary to point it out in the first place.

There are bad apples in every bunch. That doesn't mean they are ALL bad though.

What has happened to the much touted compassion of liberal thinking folks (as my friend Bobert would say)hmmmmm?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: British soldier arrested on suspicion of
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 May 03 - 04:28 PM

Gads, DougR. Are we meant to compare OUR guys with THEIR guys? If so, does that mean that another governmental power should have the right to come in and discipline us?

It is disengenuous of you to say you have not heard any Mudcat bewailing Saddam's policies. You are well aware that NONE of us condones his actions or even understands how a mind like Saddam's can get so corrupted that his actions were possible. Give us - and you - some credit. (Even though you, yourself, have not "bewailed" Saddam's behavior, I took it for granted that you disapproved of him.)

Subject: RE: BS: British soldier arrested on suspicion of
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 30 May 03 - 04:36 PM

>>hanging from netting on a fork-lift truck.<<

An overly dramatic way of saying "siesta."

Subject: RE: BS: British soldier arrested on suspicion of
From: artbrooks
Date: 30 May 03 - 04:37 PM

Actions by soldiers, of whoever's army, that are out of bounds need to be reported. How else can corrective action be taken?

Subject: RE: BS: British soldier arrested on suspicion of
From: Gareth
Date: 30 May 03 - 04:38 PM

Needless to say there are those who will use any stick...

Here is the BBC report Click 'Ere

You will note the arrest, and police investigation.

There is a difference between condoning and encouraging such behaviour, and trying to eradicate it.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: British soldier arrested on suspicion of
From: NicoleC
Date: 30 May 03 - 04:39 PM

Link here.

Doug, defending any allegation of wrongdoing (as you have been doing lately) by insisting that it must have been worse in Iraq, belittles any concept of freedom we pretend hold dear. For two countries who claimed to be "liberators" of "oppression" in Iraq, and symbols of freedom and human rights, don't you think it's wrong for them to engage in the exact same practices?

I don't think it's glee, Doug, it's vigilance. Because that's the only thing that keeps up free. Patting yourself on the back for being a bit better than an repressive regime is a poor way to preserve freedoms.

And quite frankly, most of us got tired of complaining about Saddam's regime when he was a US crony in the 80's and we were derided as whiny liberals. The US didn't gave a rat's behind about the Iraqi people until it was politically expedient to do so to cover up their raw greed. The hypocrasy is nauseating, so save me the speeches about how awful Saddam was.

Subject: RE: BS: British soldier arrested on suspicion of
From: stevetheORC
Date: 30 May 03 - 05:06 PM

For once I find myself siding with DougR. Am takes every possible opertunity to have a dig at the Army/Police I can to a degree understand where he is coming from (Irish Republican) yet if I was to take the same tone about the IRA I am sure that he would be screaming from the rooftops. I would imagine that I would be labeld Bigot/Racist and all the rest of it.
Actualy I dont realy care, I do hate them.

Orc

Subject: RE: BS: British soldier arrested on suspicion of
From: stevetheORC
Date: 30 May 03 - 05:07 PM

Just like to add that I deplore all Types of violence and believe that if this soldier is found to be guilty of any wrongdoing then he should be punished.

Orc

Subject: RE: BS: British soldier arrested on suspicion of
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 May 03 - 05:10 PM

"I deplore all Types of violence" That's a strange way of talking for an orc...

Subject: RE: BS: British soldier arrested on suspicion of
From: stevetheORC
Date: 30 May 03 - 05:15 PM

Not realy and if you disagree with me again I will rip your throat out and eat your heart:-)

Subject: RE: BS: British soldier arrested on suspicion of
From: DougR
Date: 30 May 03 - 05:28 PM

Ebbie, Nicole, I NEVER said I condoned such behaviour. I agree that if the soldier is guilty, he should be punished.

I was not commenting on the behaviour anyway. Mr remarks were aimed at those who jump at the chance to criticize our forces in Iraq. They have a tough job and whether or not you agree they should be there, deserve, I believe, our support.

Nicole: same old, same old. The 1980s are long gone.

And Ebbie, if you do a search of my posts, I think you will find that I have consistently been critical of Saddam and his thugs.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: British soldier arrested on suspicion of
From: NicoleC
Date: 30 May 03 - 06:01 PM

I see, Doug. It doesn't count if your criticized Saddam in the 80's when he was doing all the same things. It only counts if you jump on the bandwagon when your government tells you to.

Okay, you think the soldier may have done a bad thing, but no one should mention it because it might mean said soldier wasn't being "supported." *wink* *wink *nudge* *nudge*

I suspect that the vast majority of British soldiers would be happier without the bad apples mucking up their reputation.

Subject: RE: BS: British soldier arrested on suspicion of
From: Gareth
Date: 30 May 03 - 07:31 PM

Nice post Nichole. Thank the lord for those, majority Catters who are prepared to study, then judge.

DougR. Oi ! My posts have been constant on the evils of Saddams regime. Care to differ, butty ??

And for the usual suspects

" Not for us a judge or jury,
Not for us a trial at all,
Being British means we're guilty,
So we're guilty one and all"

"Children at their peaceful play,
Commuters walking down the street,
Being British means they are guilty,
For Ireland's cause let their maker meet"

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: British soldier arrested on suspicion of
From: DougR
Date: 30 May 03 - 08:20 PM

Nicole: The fact that the U. S. backed Saddam against Iran in the 80's has been beat to death on the Mudcat. I know of no one who, in retrospect, believes that we didn't back a bad guy. I doubt, however, that the majority of Americans at the time knew he was as bad as he was. We have backed other bad regimes, but at the time, it was believed to be in our best interest. Hindsight is a wonderful gift, right? Unless I am way off on my guess, you, Nicole, were a teenager in the 80's. I think it was unusual that a person so young was so well informed. Obviously better informed than the CIA. A great gift indeed!

As to whether the news should have been released on the British soldier, of course it should have been! It seems there is to be an investigation of the incident. Yet, as far as some Mudcatters are concerned, he is already guilty!

Do you, and others,think that we get ALL of our news on the Mudcat? The story about the British soldier will be carried(if it hasn't already) by every news outlet in the world probably. The cable news networks will ride it to death.

Jeeze!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: British soldier arrested on suspicion of
From: NicoleC
Date: 30 May 03 - 10:04 PM

Doug, the CIA was under no misconceptions about Saddam during the 80's. YOU may have not been aware of the issue, but I was, the US intelligence community was, the various humanitarian organizations were, and the international community was. If most Americans didn't know, it wasn't because it was as secret.

Instead, you hit the nail on the head about it was believed to be in our best interest. Our best interest didn't involve the welfare of the Iraqi citizens in the 80's. Nor did it involve the welfare of the Iraqi's who backed us in the 1st Gulf War in the 90's-- we abandoned them to Saddam's revenge when we were done with their support.

Given the veracity of your statement, it seems horribly naive to issue platitudes about the poor Iraqi people now, as if their plight suddenly had anything at all to do with our execution of foreign policy.

Subject: RE: BS: British soldier arrested on suspicion of
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 31 May 03 - 04:10 AM

It's an interesting way we humans argue:

"The IRA kill people horribly!"

"But the British do much worse!"

"British soldiers commit atrocities!"

"But Saddam's torturers did much worse!"

Surely it should be possible for us to look at an (alleged, still - the soldier hasn't been tried (not that I expect, personally, much from any army 'trying' its soldiers - look at My Lai, for instance)) atrocity in isolation.

Whoops, I just didn't.

Subject: RE: BS: British soldier arrested on suspicion of
From: ard mhacha
Date: 31 May 03 - 08:03 AM

The soldier now in military custody is a Gary Bartlam who served in the 1st Battalion Royal Regiment of Fusiliers.

Kelly Tilford who worked in the photo shop said "I felt sick when I looked at the pictures. I showed the to a colleague and she called the police".
Sorry to upset Gareth abd Doug , but neither of you have had the experience of living under an army of occupation, I do hope you never have to undergo the horror. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: BS: British soldier arrested on suspicion of
From: ard mhacha
Date: 31 May 03 - 02:19 PM

A browse through to-days Britsh Press will convey what disgusted and shocked the ladies. Ard Mhach.

Subject: RE: BS: British soldier arrested on suspicion of
From: Gareth
Date: 31 May 03 - 02:50 PM

Sorry Arm I did not realise you lived under a tyranical ocupation - Where was this ?

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: British soldier arrested on suspicion of
From: artbrooks
Date: 31 May 03 - 03:03 PM

JTT, I assume that you are aware that the US Army sentenced William Calley to 20 years in prison and a dishonorable discharge...and the politicians changed it to 6 months house arrest?

Subject: RE: BS: British soldier arrested on suspicion of
From: Gareth
Date: 31 May 03 - 08:03 PM

Yer Ard - Why are you silent ?

This is most uncharecteristic.

Gareth