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Lyr Req: Welsh and Manx songs

Little Robyn 31 May 03 - 05:47 PM
Jim Dixon 07 Jun 03 - 10:03 PM
Helen 07 Jun 03 - 11:38 PM
sian, west wales 08 Jun 03 - 11:14 AM
Little Robyn 08 Jun 03 - 07:55 PM
Rara Avis 08 Jun 03 - 08:49 PM
GUEST,Y Star 09 Jun 03 - 12:51 AM
sian, west wales 09 Jun 03 - 05:06 AM
sian, west wales 09 Jun 03 - 08:07 AM
sian, west wales 09 Jun 03 - 02:30 PM
Mary Humphreys 09 Jun 03 - 02:52 PM
sian, west wales 10 Jun 03 - 04:29 AM
sian, west wales 10 Jun 03 - 04:21 PM
GUEST,Y Star 11 Jun 03 - 01:22 AM
sian, west wales 11 Jun 03 - 03:01 PM
MMario 11 Jun 03 - 03:40 PM
GUEST,bigJ 11 Jun 03 - 05:13 PM
sian, west wales 12 Jun 03 - 03:08 PM
sian, west wales 17 Jun 03 - 05:14 AM
GUEST,Y Star 20 Jun 03 - 05:53 PM
GUEST 25 Mar 15 - 07:08 AM
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Subject: Lyr Req: Welsh and Manx songs
From: Little Robyn
Date: 31 May 03 - 05:47 PM

Is there time to find an answer to this before Mudcat goes down? Yvette Audain has asked this question on NZ Folk:

I am trying to find the lyrics and hopefully an English translation for a couple of songs I want to learn. The first is a Welsh song 'Diofal Y'wr Aderyn' (Without Care is the Bird), and the second is a Manx song 'Nee Caillynyn Roie' - I have discovered them both through the Past Times CD 'Celtic Airs and Ballads', and the latter's lyrics were apparently originally in English, and only recently translated into Manx. Do any of you know where I can find these?
--Jonathan Berkahn (Net song-searching whiz) perhaps? ...

Yvette

Thanks,
Robyn


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Welsh and Manx songs
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 07 Jun 03 - 10:03 PM

refresh


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Welsh and Manx songs
From: Helen
Date: 07 Jun 03 - 11:38 PM

The Welsh lyrics for 'Diofal Y'wr Aderyn' are here:

Rick's Music Pages

No English translation unfortunately but one of our Welsh members may be able to help out.

I couldn't find the Manx song with Google.com

Helen


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Welsh and Manx songs
From: sian, west wales
Date: 08 Jun 03 - 11:14 AM

Re: Diofal Yw'r Aderyn (sic), I don't have a singable translation, but if she just needs to know the meaning ...

Diofal yw'r aderyn
Ni hau, ni fed un gronyn;
Heb un gofal yn y byd
Mae'n canu hyd y flwyddyn.

The bird has no cares,
He doesn't sow, He doesn't reap a single grain;
Without a care in the world
He sings throughout the year

Chorus:
|: Dymili dymili dymili dymili, :|
Dymili dymili dymili dymili,
|: Rew di rew di ranno, :|
Heb un gofal yn y byd
Mae'n canu hyd y flwyddyn.

(Nonsense syllables followed by the last two lines of the verse.)

2. Fe fwyta'i swper heno
Ni w^yr yn lle mae'i ginio;
Dyna'r modd y mae yn byw,
A gad o i Dduw arlwyo

He eats his supper tonight,
Not knowing where his dinner will come from;
That how he lives,
Leaving God to feed him.

sian

It's sort of "consider the lillies of the field" theme.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Welsh and Manx songs
From: Little Robyn
Date: 08 Jun 03 - 07:55 PM

Thanks Sian. I think Yvette is keeping an eye on Mudcat herself now.
I just love the way that people all around the world are so helpful.
Robyn


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Welsh and Manx songs
From: Rara Avis
Date: 08 Jun 03 - 08:49 PM

The liner notes of Past Times' Celtic Airs and Ballads indicate that the English words for Nee Callinyn Roie were "If young women were hares on the mountain..." That sounds remarkably like "Blackbirds and Thrushes". Check out the Niamh Parsons CD of the same name. The tune is different, though.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Welsh and Manx songs
From: GUEST,Y Star
Date: 09 Jun 03 - 12:51 AM

Hello - 'tis me, the Yvette herself of the question posted!! Thought it was about time I came here myself. Thanks again to Robyn for posting this in the first place - and to you guys for helping!! On the CD though, I note that there are more than 2 verses of 'Diofal...'. Any chance of finding those verses?? I'm sure I will be quite nicely occupied wrapping my tongue round those 2 existing ones hehe :)

Now to go investigate the 'Blackbirds and Thrushes' thing.

Cheers again,

lotsa sparkles,

Y :)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Welsh and Manx songs
From: sian, west wales
Date: 09 Jun 03 - 05:06 AM

Re: "Diofal", I can't think where it's published, but I'll try to find out and get back to you.

Mind you - you could try to give us a phonetic version. I do like a good laugh. No - sorry. Seriously, there's a chance that the other two are 'floating' verses that appear in other songs and if you want to try the first few words of the other two, I might be able to figure it out ...

sian


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Welsh and Manx songs
From: sian, west wales
Date: 09 Jun 03 - 08:07 AM

It just occurred to me ... who sings "Diofal yw'r Aderyn" on the CD? May be a friend of mine, in which case I can find out 'from source' which verses were used.

sian


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Welsh and Manx songs
From: sian, west wales
Date: 09 Jun 03 - 02:30 PM

Found another verse which fits between the two noted above:

Fe eistedd ar y gangen,
Gan edrych ar ei aden;
Heb un geniog yn ei god,
Yn llywio a bod yn llawen.

He sits on the branch
Looking at his wing;
Not a penny in his purse,
He ??? and makes merry.

The ??? stumps me somewhat; I've asked someone else and she can't work it out either. "Llywio" means 'to steer', 'to pilot'. It can also mean 'tail' so it could be 'bobbing about'. But that's just a guess.

The note that comes with it reads: "An Anglesey farm-servants' song noted by Dr. J. Lloyd Williams from the singing of Mr. W. H. Williams of Llanrwst" so that would probably be in the early 1900s.

sian


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Welsh and Manx songs
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 09 Jun 03 - 02:52 PM

Has anyone got the tune for 'Diofal yw'r aderyn?' ABCs or pdf files would be gratefully received.Or a sound clip.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Welsh and Manx songs
From: sian, west wales
Date: 10 Jun 03 - 04:29 AM

I've got it, but I'm hopeless at ABCs. I could always fax it. First off, I'll post the name of the book when I get home; you may have it already, Mary.

sian


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Welsh and Manx songs
From: sian, west wales
Date: 10 Jun 03 - 04:21 PM

Right - the book is "Amrywiaeth o Ganeuon Traddodiadol (2) 46", a Cymdeithas Alawon Gwerin Cymru (Welsh Folk Song Soc.) publication.

We're not having much luck with the Manx one, are we?

sian


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Welsh and Manx songs
From: GUEST,Y Star
Date: 11 Jun 03 - 01:22 AM

Thanks so much for all your efforts Sian!! The woman on the CD is Julie Murphy - wow, if you know her I'll be so impressed; I love her voice, she's a legend!! I also love Emma Christian's voice; she is the one who sings 'Nee Caillynyn Roie'.

Hmm, now I have even MORE twistable words to learn... haha, I'll probably end up accidentally saying something REALLY unmentionable and offend all the Welsh ppl in the place (if there are any)...

Y :)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Welsh and Manx songs
From: sian, west wales
Date: 11 Jun 03 - 03:01 PM

Actually, I don't know Julie, although she lives around here. I know her husband; if I can get his e-mail I might be able to find out what verses she uses ...   You don't say if the above match what's on the CD. I haven't found any different ones.

sian


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Welsh and Manx songs
From: MMario
Date: 11 Jun 03 - 03:40 PM

sian - could you e-mail it to me? I could post the abc.


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Subject: Lyr Add: HARES ON THE MOUNTAIN (in English, Manx)
From: GUEST,bigJ
Date: 11 Jun 03 - 05:13 PM

In the music manuscript books of Dr John Clague of the Isle of Man ( 1842-1908) is a tune - without words - under the heading "If Young Men Could Swim". It was collected from George Moore of Balladoole in the south of the Island.
Undoubtedly it's a tune for a version of the song best known as "Hares On the Mountain"
In 1988, to mark the 80th anniversary of Clague's death a small book of songs based on his manuscripts was produced, in which the words - in English - of "Hares on the Mountain" appeared opposite a singable version of the song - in Manx - produced by adopted Manxman Colin Jerry.
In recent years with an increased interest in and promotion of the Manx language, the song has proved quite popular.
Here they are :-

1 If all the young girls were like hares on the mountain (x2)
   How soon the young men would all go a-hunting,
   To my right fol-the-diddle dero, to my right fol-the-riddle dee.

1 Nee caillinyn roie myr mwaaee er ny sleityn (x2)
   Dy beigns agh my scollag de leah harrin cloghey,
   Di-dal-dol deree diddle dero, deedle-dal-deree dee.

2 If young girls they sang like birds in the bushes (x2)
   How soon the young men would go beating those bushes
   To my .........

2 Gowee caillinyn arrane myr eanlee ayns ny thammagyn (x2)
   Dy row mee my scollag harrin bwoailley ny thammagyn,
   Di-dal ............

3 If all those young girls they flowered like roses (x2)
   How soon the young men would go pruning the roses,
   To my ............

3 Nee caillinyn blaaghey myr roseyn bwagh jiargey (x2)
   Dy beigns agh my scollag raghyn giarey ny roseyn,
   Di-dal ............

4 If all those young girls were like ducks on the water (x2)
   How soon the young men would dive in and swim after,
   To my ............

4 Nee caillinyn snaue myr thunnag 'syn ushtey (x2)
   Dy row mee my scollag harrin snaue geiyrt orroo,
   Di-dal ............

5 If young girls they sparkled like dew on the barley (x2)
   Young men would be there to gather dew early,
   To my ..........

5 Nee caillinyn skelley myr druight er oarn appee (x2)
   Dy beigns agh my scollag raghin rouail ayns ny magheryn
   Di-dal ..........


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Welsh and Manx songs
From: sian, west wales
Date: 12 Jun 03 - 03:08 PM

MMario - if you pm me an e-mail address, I'll get it scanned (next week) and send it on to you. Thanks!

sian


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Welsh and Manx songs
From: sian, west wales
Date: 17 Jun 03 - 05:14 AM

For the sake of accuracy, I have remained on the trail of the translation of "Diofal" as the "llywio a bod yn llawen" was a puzzlement to several of us. Therefore, I asked my friends, Phyllis and Mered, probably the two greatest living experts on these things and got this reply:

"Well! What a palaver! Did you know that that particular verse does not occur in the WFS Journal, nor in Caneuon Traddodiadol Cymru nor in Hwiangerddi Cymraeg??? At last I thought of a book called Caneuon Gwerin i Blant edited by a couple of rurally based no-hopers (***) ---
and behold! There it was. ... According to Mered the word 'llywio' has the meaning of 'to steer' and the import of the words is that even without a penny in his pocket he will be merry."

(***) I feel I must point out that the no-hopers referred to by Phyllis are, indeed, Phyllis and Mered themselves. So I guess that's as authoritative as we're going to get!

BTW (Nigel will love this!) I was in a party on Sat. night and met a music scholar who has been researching a well-known collector who died a few years back (TH Parry-Williams). In going through his papers, he found a manuscript of 24 folk-song arrangements which no one knew existed and, with Mered's help, they will be publishing them and launching the book the first week of August.

AND (this is where Nigel will get excited) they'll have singable translations written by one of Wales' current great poets - Gwyn Thomas (Gwyn Bangor) Apparently they're really-really good. I'll probably be at the launch - I'll tell you more when I get back the following week.

sian


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Welsh and Manx songs
From: GUEST,Y Star
Date: 20 Jun 03 - 05:53 PM

Thanks heaps Big J!! And Sian for your further efforts. Am currently on a break from my Navy course and need to go study for when I go back on Monday so I will stop procrastinating and log off now...

Y :)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Welsh and Manx songs
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 15 - 07:08 AM

Has anyone made any progress on this? I'm listening to the Julie Murphy version while reading through the lyrics listed here, and apart from the first verse none of them fit.
Anyone know exactly what she is singing?


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