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Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?

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TIA 06 Jun 03 - 05:20 PM
pavane 06 Jun 03 - 05:28 PM
Clinton Hammond 06 Jun 03 - 05:28 PM
dick greenhaus 06 Jun 03 - 06:02 PM
Sorcha 06 Jun 03 - 06:21 PM
Rapparee 06 Jun 03 - 06:35 PM
GUEST,Russ 06 Jun 03 - 06:36 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 06 Jun 03 - 06:47 PM
Geoff the Duck 06 Jun 03 - 07:43 PM
Uncle_DaveO 06 Jun 03 - 08:58 PM
Gurney 07 Jun 03 - 02:56 AM
GUEST,Jon 07 Jun 03 - 06:27 AM
Naemanson 07 Jun 03 - 08:04 AM
JohnInKansas 07 Jun 03 - 12:19 PM
George Papavgeris 07 Jun 03 - 12:27 PM
Bernard 07 Jun 03 - 07:36 PM
Kaleea 08 Jun 03 - 04:41 AM
GUEST,mark dunlop 08 Jun 03 - 03:40 PM
Bob Bolton 09 Jun 03 - 04:10 AM
Gurney 09 Jun 03 - 06:02 AM
TIA 09 Jun 03 - 05:31 PM
Zelda_K 10 Jun 03 - 08:19 AM
GUEST,Dave Hollowood 10 Jun 03 - 01:06 PM
Sean H 11 Jun 03 - 11:33 PM
KateG 12 Jun 03 - 02:59 PM
Two_bears 09 Dec 03 - 06:45 AM
GUEST,Knappo 09 Dec 03 - 08:34 AM
M.Ted 09 Dec 03 - 09:59 AM
*daylia* 09 Dec 03 - 10:02 AM
GUEST,Knappo 09 Dec 03 - 11:56 AM
Midchuck 09 Dec 03 - 12:59 PM
Dave Hanson 10 Dec 03 - 07:10 AM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 10 Dec 03 - 07:14 AM
GUEST 10 Dec 03 - 06:17 PM
LadyJean 11 Dec 03 - 12:25 AM
Sarah the flute 11 Dec 03 - 03:51 AM
Two_bears 11 Dec 03 - 06:17 AM
AKS 11 Dec 03 - 08:25 AM
GUEST,pavane 11 Dec 03 - 08:26 AM
GUEST,Pavane 11 Dec 03 - 08:29 AM
Mooh 12 Dec 03 - 11:43 AM
GUEST,Sarah the Flute 12 Dec 03 - 11:46 AM
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Subject: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: TIA
Date: 06 Jun 03 - 05:20 PM

Considering the purchase of a decent six-hole flute. I travel a lot between climes - desert in March, stinkin humid PA valley June through September, Butt kickin' cold in Canadia some winters. Expensive wood scares me. I've seen high quality polymers advertised. Are they good (I'm not...yet)? Will I be shunned? Any recommendations welcome. Thanks.

Tim

By the way, look at that word sacrilegious. I think it's spelled right, but the i and e sure seem swapped don't they?


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: pavane
Date: 06 Jun 03 - 05:28 PM

Of course it is frowned on. We traditionalists should all still be using the good old drilled bone...


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 06 Jun 03 - 05:28 PM

Get whatever whistle you want!

My whistle player uses all kinds of 'plastic' and such whistles and he loves 'em!

"sacrilegious" is the proper spelling...


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 06 Jun 03 - 06:02 PM

As with so many, many things---whatever works. Of course, you'd miss the joys of having your instrument swell, check and crack when the weather changes...


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 Jun 03 - 06:21 PM

Of course you would be shunned. Feng Shui-ed too, but do you care? *BG*


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Jun 03 - 06:35 PM

A polymer nose flute...no, I'd rather not think about it.

How's the sound? How well does it play? How does it feel *to you*?

You'll play better if you're comfortable with it. Sure, there will be those who disparage you for for being "non-trad" but hey! the first guys who played metal flutes were probably bad-mouthed by the wooden flautists, just as the woods were ripped by the boners, and the boneheads by the guys* who swore by puckering up and blowing.

Learn to play the concrete flute. After that they won't say anything about polymer.


*a unisex word with no gender implied or intended.


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 06 Jun 03 - 06:36 PM

Buy it and if anybody remarks on it remember that the best defense is a good offense.


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 06 Jun 03 - 06:47 PM

One of our session regulars, Andra, is a symphony flautist. The flute she uses for Irish music is about as good a wooden instrument as can be had. In fact, the maker, Skip Healy, has pictures of her very instrument on his website. Click here and scroll down and click on the "keyed flutes" link.

Anyway, at last night's session, she tried out an open hole polymer flute for what she claimed was the first time, when another regular showed her his new acquisition. She was impressed - said it sounded as good as wooden flutes costing much more. If I were to suddenly catch the flute bug, that's recommendation enough for me.

Bruce


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 06 Jun 03 - 07:43 PM

If it sounds good I wouldn't care what anybody else might say! Facts speak louder than opinions!
GtD.


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 06 Jun 03 - 08:58 PM

To clear up confusion (I hope) "sacrilegious" is correct. The last three syllables don't represent a form of the word "religion", though it might be tempting to think so.

The parts of the word are "sacri"--referring to sacred things--
and the last part, "-legious" is from "lego", to take.

The combination originally referred to stealing sacred objects.

Hope this clears up the spelling problem.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: Gurney
Date: 07 Jun 03 - 02:56 AM

A long time ago, I was on the same scene as Bernard Overton, and he was making his whistles from aircraft-grade aluminium. Maybe someone can tell us what he makes them from now?


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Jun 03 - 06:27 AM

This sort of question has cropped up before but maybe not here. Last time, I asked a session friend of mine who is an excellent flute player and has a wonderful sounding flute made of cocus what she thought about polymer flutes.

Her opinion was that they can be excellent. She also named some "top flight" player that plays one but I can't remember who.


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: Naemanson
Date: 07 Jun 03 - 08:04 AM

Of course it's sacriligeous! If you keep on cutting down the rare polymer trees to make flutes you will be doing untold damage to the environment...

Personally I don't care what the flute is made from as long as the music that comes out of it is well played.


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 07 Jun 03 - 12:19 PM

In a previous lifetime I purchased one of the first thousand "plastic" clarinets made by Selmer (#991). At the time, the usual choice was between wooden "professional" grade and metal "student" grade stuff - both rather outrageously priced for a kid making 50 cents per hour. The new "plastic" clarinet was available at an "introductory" price I could almost afford.

A couple of weeks after I got it, the lead clarinetist from the local symphony "dropped in" at a rehearsal and asked to play it. Aside from the obvious demonstration that "it's the artist, not the instrument," he "borrowed" a mid-range wood and a standard grade metal clarinet from others in the group; and pointed out and demonstrated the rather distinctive "differences." His main criticism of the plastic clarinet was that the key mechanisms were "student grade," but the sound was very close to the "woodiness" of a good wooden clarinet. His comments about the metal one agreed with my own opinion, but are best omitted.

Good polymer instruments (especially considering almost 50 years additional experience with the materials since my purchase) should closely approximate the acoustic properties of a good wooden instrument, and will largely avoid the "environmental" problems associated with wood (although even good polymers are not indestructible). I wouldn't worry as much about the material (between polymer and wood) as about the abilities and "style" of the specific maker.

Contrary to the popular concept, the "material" cost for a slug of polymer adequate to make a flute may be higher than the cost of a run-of-the-mill wooden blank. Plastic is used for a lot of "cheap" products because of the savings in processing - by molding large quantities. A good polymer flute will probably be pretty much "machined," much like a wooden one, so there isn't a significant process saving for a small volume producer. The choice is more likely to be based on the suitability of the material for the intended use - something largely ignored by the "quantity" manufacturers.

And noone ever ridiculed my plastic clarinet - although we'll ignore comments on my playing as "uninformed opinion."

John


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 07 Jun 03 - 12:27 PM

Only if it blasphemes when you blow it


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: Bernard
Date: 07 Jun 03 - 07:36 PM

Thread creep... Adolph Sax worked hard trying to perfect the metal clarinet, but gave up and invented the saxophone instead! He also perfected the bass clarinet... which is why it looks rather like a saxophone, I suppose.

There's nothing wrong with polymer instruments - in fact, the Susato whistles play far better than many 'traditional' metal ones. As others have already mentioned, it's the skill of the player and the choice of music that matters!


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: Kaleea
Date: 08 Jun 03 - 04:41 AM

Bernard--I was just thinking of my fav whistle, which is my Susato! TIA--absolutely both YES & NO!! When faced with such dilemmas, there will always be those who passionatly debate the pros & cons of a thing, & truths are to be found in both arguements. I have found that if the instrument is a good one, the artist talented, the performance is usually good & enjoyed by listeners. In these modern times we may find ourselves in many performance situations & venues, some humid or rainy or bone-dry, cold or hot, indoor & out--therefore it is logical that we look to the makers of a variety of instruments to meet our individual needs. If you find a good "plastic" or polymer instrument which plays & sounds good, while allowing you to maintain fine performances no matter the venue, say: "GO FOR IT, BABY!"
If you haven't been there yet, check out the tin whistle & flute players home in cyberspace. You will find links to whistles & flutes of all kinds & prices, as well as reviews & much debate about your question, too. (sorry, the blue clicky thing wouldn't work for me
here's the url:
          http:www.chiffandfipple.com


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: GUEST,mark dunlop
Date: 08 Jun 03 - 03:40 PM

Try Desi Seery, from Bray in the Republic Of Ireland. He makes flutes out of polypenco or summat, plastic anyway. Tom Doorley from Danú plays one, so you can check the sound quality right there. He also makes nice whistles of the same plastic. They're practically indestructible. Now, when they start making polymer bodhrán skins ......
m.d.


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 09 Jun 03 - 04:10 AM

G'day Gurney,

Just to round off your query - Bernard Overton's whistles (and those made under licence by Colin Goldie in Germany) are made of high quality aluminium ... probably aircraft grade.

I have two early Overton whistles (un-branded!) in standard 'C' and a low 'F' taht may be the first to come to Australia ... in the late '70s. These have a slightly narrower fipple and windway than his later ... branded ... models - and are rather "tight to play - but I got used to them more than 20 years ago. (I also have 3 more of his later models - Low 'D', low 'G' and high 'D'.)

BTW: I have seem a Colin Goldie low 'D' with hole spacing adjusted for smaller hands ... and it works damned well (... and the serial number was #666!).

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: Gurney
Date: 09 Jun 03 - 06:02 AM

Hi Bob. I haven't seen Bernard for 29 years, and at that time he sold aluminium welding supplies. He was a top-class ali welder.

I thought of him in that thread about lending guitars. I remember him walking onstage and tearing his Spanish out of the hands of a guy who had borrowed it. This bloke had just completed a number flat-picking it, -loudly- and when Bernard objected, said "Oh, OK." and started putting finger-picks on.   Regards.


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: TIA
Date: 09 Jun 03 - 05:31 PM

Thanks everyone! Kaleea - your link, in particular, was very helpful.


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: Zelda_K
Date: 10 Jun 03 - 08:19 AM

hi Tia,
I have a polymer (delrin) flute from Desi Seery and it's very good. Easy to play and powerful. Although I prefer my Hamilton blackwood flute for response and tone quality, I would nevertheless recommend those Seery flutes for anyone who is living in difficult climatic conditions.


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: GUEST,Dave Hollowood
Date: 10 Jun 03 - 01:06 PM

The only thing sacriligeous is the death of fine folk music, or for that matter any music (I don't include rap in my definition of music).

Get what you want and what you're comfortable with, physically and monitarily.

And speaking of the death of music and polymer instruments, I'd like to point out that many schools here in America are allowing their school bands to die from lack of finance. You folks can help! A lot of typical woodwind instruments can easily be made from PVC piping. It might not be the most expensive,shiny, nickle plated instrument in the band, but it puts a musical instrument in the hands of a youngster who might not otherwise be able to afford it. Plans are scattered throughout the internet. Contact your local schools and see if they would be interested. Made from PVC piping they're good for practice and if they get lost, stolen (I don't know why they would be stolen but it's possible), or damaged they can be easily replaced at minimal cost. They can also be personalized by the student.

Don't let the music die!


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: Sean H
Date: 11 Jun 03 - 11:33 PM

I own two M&E'S made in Eire. They are very nice, and very tough. If someone doesn't like it hit in the head with it. He may not respect you but I think he'll mind the flute.


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: KateG
Date: 12 Jun 03 - 02:59 PM

Speaking of PVC piping, my first keyless flute was made out of PVC. I found it on Ebay for $35 (by Doug Tipple). Tone was good, and the intonation was spot on. I call it my "left handed sewer flute" in honor of Peter Shickele/PDQ Bach's instrument of that name, even though it's not left handed. I now have a lovely rosewood flute, but had to do a bit of searching before I found one that was worth the logarithmic difference in price.

My husband and I also have a collection of recorders in plastic, maple, and pearwoodboxwood and blackwood. The plastic ones hold their own against the maple, and compare well with the pear. The blackwood is in another category...but then, given what I paid for it 20 years ago, it should be! However, it has to be carefully humidified and cossetted, and since I'm not playing recorder regularly at the moment, I play my plastic one.

So follow your ears and the dictates of your climate.


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: Two_bears
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 06:45 AM

I play the wooden Native American flute. I have one bade by Fretwell Flutes made from ash, and one made by Spirit Wind Flutes made from cedar.

Over years; I have owned flutes made by Stellar flutes, 2 flutes made by High Spirits Flutes, and flutes made by Native Americans Two flutes made by a legaly blind Cherokee flute maker "Wiser Buffalo", and a flute made by Seminole flute maker "Running Fox". I have sold all of them for one reason or another.

I am telling you that because I fully intend to buy a polymer flute as soon as I can find one I like.

There are several reasons to buy a polymer flute, and personaly; I don't care what others think of my playing a polymer flute.

1. you need to play the flute outside when it is very cold. (warm breath inside the chamber will cause the wood to expand, and the cold wood outside can cause the flute to split)

2. a polymer flute to take along when you travel. (This is why I will buy a polymer flute)

3. You can play the flute for longer periods of time and the flute will not get water logged from the moisture of your breath.

4. Introduce a child to the flute at an affordable cost.

5. the polymer flute can take more abuse than a quality wood flute.


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: GUEST,Knappo
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 08:34 AM

Can anyone recommend a quality polymer flute? Thanks, Tom


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: M.Ted
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 09:59 AM

And if the above arguements aren't enough, consider the folkloric angle--It turns out that in recent years, the traditional end-blown Balkan/Middle Eastern flutes, such as the kaval and the ney, which used to be made by the players, from reeds that grow on hillsides or such things, are now being made, still by the players, from PVC pipe scavenged from construction sites--so now plastic is traditional--


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: *daylia*
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 10:02 AM

Knappo, this maker of traditional Irish instruments looks like he has a good selection of Irish flutes, wooden and polymers. Scroll down and click on "Irish Flutes" to see them.

And here's some interesting insights into the pros and cons of polymer flutes

daylia


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: GUEST,Knappo
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 11:56 AM

Thanks *daylia*.


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: Midchuck
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 12:59 PM

Only if your God is a wooden flute - which would make you pretty strange even by today's standards.

Peter.


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 07:10 AM

Go for it Tia, if it sounds good it's OK. I play a 1914 Vega tenor banjo with a formica resnator, looks awful but sounds great.
eric


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 07:14 AM

This thread is an exact copy of the same titled one at The Session, [www.thesession.org].


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 06:17 PM

Sh1t you have to be kidding! The session is a place of arrogant assholes who between them might be able to complete one tune.

On the Mudcat you'll sometimes be chatting to the real McCoy.

PVC flutes are better mostly because being so low tech they cost next to nothing and the material so consistent that once a good pattern is found then large quantities are easily made.

They sound about as good as the expensive kind. They suit the beginner since one can scallop the blow hole if it is not quite how the student wants. They are hard as rock, I have driven my truck over a D and it did not break it, squished a wee bit - but it slowly recovered its shape.

Last and for me by far the best of all, you don't need to oil em, in fact that is what you must never do to. Instead a good sloshing with water does the job.

Paying a thousand dollars for a folk flute is insane - IMO - when you can make one for 50 cents- ifn you save wine bottle corks ...which I do.. if not it will cost you 95 cents.

About wooden flutes.
Today blackwood is both rare and very expensive, so folks try other kinds of wood. For the record, on a saturday morning or your dayoffmorning, you can take any new of used implement handle, saw off 20" then bore that out to the desired size - say 5/8"
for a D stick, and finish the job by lunch time. Total cost including   
a quart of beer, 10 dollars. OTOH if you want spotted martian glow tree then you can get a bank loan.

Also it is FUN...


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: LadyJean
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 12:25 AM

I knew someone who had a krumhorn made from PVC tubing. It looked ridiculous, but it made the same noise a woodent krumhorn makes, which is also ridiculous.


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: Sarah the flute
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 03:51 AM

BUY BUY BUY a Rudall Rose M&E polymer flute. It is brilliant and easy to play.

Sarah


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: Two_bears
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 06:17 AM

> PVC flutes are better mostly because being so low tech they cost
> next to nothing and the material so consistent that once a good
> pattern is found then large quantities are easily made.

PVC flutes are not a good career move. Look what I found about PVC (polyvinyl chloride).

"... Breathing high levels of vinyl chloride can cause you to feel dizzy or sleepy. Breathing very high levels can cause you to pass out, and breathing extremely high levels can cause death. ... People who breathe vinyl chloride for long periods of time can have changes to the structure of their livers. ... People who work with vinyl chloride have developed nerve damage and immune reactions. Other workers have developed problems with the blood flow in their hands; the tips of their fingers turn white and hurt when they are in cold temperatures. Sometimes, the bones in the tips of their fingers have broken down. ... " ~ http://environment.about.com/


"... Children in contact with soft PVC toys may, therefore, ingest substantial quantities of phthalates during normal play, especially from toys specifically designed to be chewed. This is of concern as phthalates are known to present a number of hazards. Although acute toxicity appears to be low, phthalates have been shown to cause a range of adverse effects in laboratory animals following longer exposure, including damage to the liver and kidney and, in some cases, effects on the reproductive tract. ... " ~ http://www.greenpeace.org

"... New studies are shedding light on the potential health hazards from PVC. Phthalates, a group of chemicals that are mixed into PVC to add flexibility, continuously leak out of the material and into the surrounding environment. Children absorb these compounds when they suck on toys or crawl on vinyl flooring. Swedish researchers recently reported that male workers in PVC plants have a risk of developing a form of testicular cancer - seminoma - that is six times that of the general population.
McGinn argues that cost-effective, workable substitutes exist for the bulk of PVC's current uses. In construction, where 60 percent of PVC is used, replacements in siding, pipes, cable insulation, flooring, and window frames include non-chlorinated plastics and modified, traditional materials like aluminum, wood, and ductile iron. Some communities now prohibit PVC from transportation, building, and infrastructure projects. ..." ~ http://www.worldwatch.org



"... The entire life cycle of PVC plastics is a polluting process. PVC plastic, or vinyl, is the most common plastic made from chlorine. The production and accidental or intentional burning (as with incineration) of this plastic produces the deadly chemical dioxin, which has been linked to cancer as well as developmental and reproductive problems. The health problems created by dioxin do not just affect people who work in or live near plants that emit dioxin. Dioxin has traveled into our food chain and now is found in a wide variety of common goods. People in the general population are already exposed to dangerous levels of dioxin. Dioxin presents a clear public health danger. ... ~ http://www.generationgreen.org


Two Bears


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: AKS
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 08:25 AM

What about a carbon fibre flute then?

AKS


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: GUEST,pavane
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 08:26 AM


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: GUEST,Pavane
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 08:29 AM

(The last message escaped somehow before I finished it)

Just don't use it in the Eisteddfod. Many years ago, when Mrs Pavane was in school, their recorder ensemble were put into second place. They would have won, but the judges marked them down because they thought they had used plastic recorders. In fact, they were polished wood, but there is no appeal from the verdict.


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: Mooh
Date: 12 Dec 03 - 11:43 AM

Wandered into the Gaelic College (Cape Breton Island) last summer and happened on an ALBA low whistle. I wasn't familiar with the name and broke my own rule to trust my own ears, eyes, and judgement, so I left without it. Damn! I've since done the requisite research which only supports my firsthand opinion. It was not polymer, but aluminum with a "plastic" insert, and a sweet sweet sound. I should know better than to pass up such chances.

Live and learn.

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: GUEST,Sarah the Flute
Date: 12 Dec 03 - 11:46 AM

I've got a low D alba - It is brilliant - bit of a stretch but a lovely sound.


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: GUEST,Ely
Date: 12 Dec 03 - 10:01 PM

I just ordered one of those carbon composite whatever fiddle bows and nobody seems to be horrified, so I don't know why a polymer flute would be a problem.


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: Two_bears
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 07:26 AM

I did buy a polymer Native American flute, and it works well.


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: treewind
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 07:47 AM

There's a good reason for using modern materials for instruments when it works well enough - consistency.

Wood is temperamental stuff; plastic is stable.

- Plastic bagpipe reeds last almost indefinitely.
- Carbon fibre violin bows don't warp, and if you lose or break one and buy a replacement of the same make it will have identical weight and feel.
- steel strings stay in tune, gut don't.

There may be differences, but you can get used to them.

I'm not ready for a plastic cello yet...

Anahata


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 10:27 PM

I've played flute and recorder, and I believe that the most important characteristic of any flute is its relationship to your hands. It can be the most melodious flute in the world, but if your hands ache after a playing it, it's not for you.


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: GUEST,Chad Northutt
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 09:14 PM

Becareful how you use that word it's very powerful!


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: mooman
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 04:02 AM

Not at all.

A polymer flute will not "mature" like a decent wooden one but, if good from the start, will remain like that come rain come shine. There are other advantages also like not having to oil and not having to fiddle with joints every so often.

If it sounds good to you...go for it!

Peace

moo


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: GUEST,Sean
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 10:26 AM

My brother is one! He still goes to church though!


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 06:28 PM

Have a look at this thread about the bamboo Xaphoon, and the injection moulded little brother.

Xaphoon


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: GUEST,Eric Ryan
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 01:02 AM

This threads been around for awhile, but I'll add on. First off, the polymers (PVC and Delrin) used for flute making are not the same grade stuff that is quoted above as harmful to kids. Check many modern homes plumbing systems, and you're drinking from PVC pipes. Also, many PVCs are food grades.

As for good polymer flutes, I've owned both a Tony Dixon 3 piece conical flute and now I have a Desi Seery polymer pratten style flute (I like the big sound baby!). Both compared favorably with blackwood flutes I've either played or played with in sessions.

I bought a nice antique flute I had been playing for a few months, and although I love the keys, I've switched back to the keyless Seery because it's such a fine flute.

Eric


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: GUEST,Eric Ryan
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 01:04 AM

Whoops, forgot to add, no one has known my Seery wasn't a blackwood flute unless I told them. It looks identical to a nice blackwood instrument.


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Subject: RE: Is a polymer flute sacrilegious?
From: GUEST,Nelson
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 10:04 PM

As a physicist and instrument designer for over 50 years, I can tell you that:
(1) All acustical aspects of flutes and other instruments have been known for over 100 years and can be completely perdicted mathmatically and verified experimentally.
(2) The sound of all woodwinds are completely dipendent on the reed, the coupling of the reed, and the geometry of the instrument. In case of flutes, the material has not influance what so ever on the sound, just the geometrical aspects of the holes, cheminies, tube measurements. Even differences of .001 inches effect the sound and harmonic content.
(3) To dramatise this, sometimes physicist have two identical flutes made of cement, wood, silver, and ground glass. Players and listeners cannot tell the difference.
(4) The fact that good flute players insist that the material of construction of a flute makes a difference, would make a good study in distortion in thinking.
(5) It is true that typically a box wood flute will sound more like another box wood flute than a blackwood flute. But the reasons are shrinkage patterns and not the acustical properties of the material.
(6) If anyone is interested in the scientific (or lay) literature on this subject, inquire with me at .


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