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Lyr Req: Caitlin Triall / Kitty Tyrell

Duke Leto 12 Aug 98 - 05:20 PM
Bruce O. 12 Aug 98 - 06:02 PM
GUEST,Philippa 04 Jun 02 - 03:58 PM
GUEST,Annraoi 04 Jun 02 - 04:33 PM
GUEST,Philippa 04 Jun 02 - 05:54 PM
GUEST,Philippa 05 Jun 02 - 08:45 AM
ciarili 05 Jun 02 - 11:09 AM
GUEST,Philippa 05 Jun 02 - 01:14 PM
GUEST,Philippa 05 Jun 02 - 01:31 PM
GUEST,Philippa 05 Jun 02 - 01:34 PM
GUEST,Philippa 05 Jun 02 - 01:36 PM
michaelr 06 Jun 02 - 01:49 AM
Áine 06 Jun 02 - 09:01 AM
GUEST,Philippa 06 Jun 02 - 06:30 PM
MMario 19 Jun 02 - 01:52 PM
MMario 19 Jun 02 - 02:06 PM
GUEST,Donal 28 Mar 05 - 08:27 AM
GUEST,Margaret 07 Sep 10 - 06:40 PM
Jack Campin 07 Sep 10 - 07:00 PM
Lighter 07 Sep 10 - 10:04 PM
GUEST,leeneia 09 Sep 10 - 09:34 AM
Lighter 09 Sep 10 - 12:31 PM
GUEST,leeneia 09 Sep 10 - 01:40 PM
Lighter 09 Sep 10 - 07:25 PM
Jack Campin 09 Sep 10 - 08:24 PM
Jim Dixon 11 Sep 10 - 03:34 PM
Jim Dixon 11 Sep 10 - 03:44 PM
Jim Dixon 11 Sep 10 - 03:57 PM
Lighter 11 Sep 10 - 05:58 PM
GUEST,GUEST, Xuan 19 Jul 11 - 03:33 PM
Smokey. 19 Jul 11 - 04:23 PM
GUEST,Xuan 20 Jul 11 - 12:17 PM
Smokey. 20 Jul 11 - 05:56 PM
GUEST,Donal 20 Jul 11 - 11:22 PM
GUEST 09 Oct 14 - 04:57 AM
GUEST,mitchmack 01 May 15 - 10:10 PM
Lighter 30 May 17 - 01:04 PM
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Subject: Caitlin Triall
From: Duke Leto
Date: 12 Aug 98 - 05:20 PM

I am searching for the English translation of lyrics to a song known as Kitty Tyrell. I believe the Irish name would be Caitlin Triall...


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Subject: RE: Caitlin Triall
From: Bruce O.
Date: 12 Aug 98 - 06:02 PM

Several copies of the 18th century tune are noted in my Irish tune index on the web, and Robert Tannahill wrote a song to fit the title, but I don't know of any 'original' song to it, Gaelic or English. (www.erols.com/olsonw)


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Subject: RE: Caitlin Triall
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 04 Jun 02 - 03:58 PM

Well, I don't know where Duke Leto is now, but there are lots of versions of Caitlín Triall/Tiriall/Triaill so it's hard to know which verses Duke would like translated.
See Áine's site (click on Caitlín Tiriall) for one version with Irish and translation. Although the Ulster version of this song has been attributed to 17th century poet Cathal Buí, Breandán Ó Buachalla, who is an authority on the matter, says Cathal Buí did NOT write the poem/song.
recordings include Skara Brae (according to the web - not on my LP!), Aoife Ní Fhearthaigh and maybe Caitlín Ní Dhomhnaill (I've heard her sing this but I don't recall whether it's on her recording). Aoife and Caitlín sing a different version than is on Áine's site. I can provide lyrics for that version, and some other info. later this week.
Direct link to the song: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/8998/caitlin_tiriall.html


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Subject: RE: Caitlin Triall
From: GUEST,Annraoi
Date: 04 Jun 02 - 04:33 PM

It would be nice if Áine Cooke gave the origins of her song lyrics.


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Subject: RE: Caitlin Triall
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 04 Jun 02 - 05:54 PM

I agree, but that goes for a huge number of people


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Subject: Lyr Add: CAITLÍN TRIALL
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 08:45 AM

I have found so many versions of Caitlín Triall that you will be fed up by the time I finish posting them – especially as there is much overlapping of verses in common. I will start with "Caitlín Triall" as sung by Caitlín Ní Dhomhnaill and Aoife Ní Fhearthaigh (Aofie's wording may be just slightly different). I got the rough translation from Caitlín, but I don't know whether it was she who prepared it.


CAITLÍN TRIALL

Níl aonach ná margadh dá bhfuil ins an áit
Nach bhfeicim-se Cití 'sí díol a cuid snáth
Orú scairtim isteach uirthi 's buailfim an clár
Is a Chití na n-anam, fan agam go lá.

Níl bó níl gamhain 's níl caora bhán
Ó bhruach Loch Carbhaith go maol an tSléibh' bháin
Nach dtabharfainn do Chití ar an aon phóg amháin
'S í a leigheasfadh an arraing teacht fríd i mo lár.

Ó gheall tusa domh-sa is gheall tú faoi dhó
Nach ndéanfá mo mhalairt anois nó go deo
Ná go bhfaca mé Cití `s fear eile ag ól
I gcúl tom dreasóg 's mug leanna ina dhorn.

Is buachaill beag beadaí mé, i ngrá le bliain
'S go b'fhearr liom bean agam ná bhfaca mé riamh
Ach leig mé `n greann is an cuideachta uaim
Ná go raibh mé 'na bhaile le Caitlín Triall.

Ach ligfidh muid tharainn ach ní hé sin le stuaim
Is mian liom-sa trácht ar Chití na gcuach:
'S í planda an duine í `tá saoithfiúil suairc
A samhail ní fhaca mé ó theas nó ó thuaidh.

Níl aon tointe ar mo bhrollach nár leig mé le gaoith
'S ma fhágaim an baile ní phillfidh mé choich'
Tá leatrom ar m'aigne is caill ar mo chiall
'S nach trom sin ar d'anam, a Chaitlín Triall.


(Rough) Translation

1. There isn't a market or fair around / but I see Kitty there, selling her yarn / Óru I call unto her and strike the table / Kitty, my love, stay with me to dawn.

2. There is no calf, no fine white sheep / from the shores of Loch Carbhaith to the top of Slieve Bán / That I would not give to Kitty in exchange for a single kiss / She would cure the pain that strikes through my heart.

3. You promised me once and you promised me twice / that you would never forsake me for another / Until I saw Kitty and another man drinking / At the back of a bramble bush and a mug of beer in his hand

4. I am a fastidious young man and I've been in love for a year / and I would rather have that woman than all I have seen / But I forsook humour and good company / and went home with Caitlín Triall.

5. We will let it pass but not with good sense / I wish to talk of Cití na gCuach / She is the fairest plant, is wise and pleasant / Her like I have never seen, north or south

6. There is not a thread on my chest that's not gone with the wind / and if I leave this townland, I will never return / My mind is depressed, my sense is deranged / It is a black mark on your soul, Caitlín Triall


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Subject: RE: Caitlin Triall
From: ciarili
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 11:09 AM

Hey there, Philippa!

I was thinking that Aoife's album had translations in the liner notes but it doesn't. Oh well! I hadn't looked at it in a long, long time because I typed all the songs in and printed them out in font you can read in the dim light of a pub!

ciarili


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Subject: Lyr Add: CAITLÍN TIRIALL
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 01:14 PM

Below are the verses given by Áine, with her translation (at the end of which I suggest a couple of changes to make it closer to the original) You will see that there are some lines in common with the version already posted (as well as with others yet to come). Perhaps Áine can give us sources for this version?


CAITLÍN TIRIALL

Ó tá an oíche seo ag sioc agus tá sí fuar,
Agus d'éalaigh mo ghrása le fear eile uaim,
A ghrua dheas lasta is a bhéilín bhinn,
Is a Chití a stór, tá mé breoite tinn.

Is í Cití a mhearaigh is a bhreoigh mo chiall,
Is a d'fhág mé ag osnaí' go mór 'na diaidh,
Is é monuar go bhfuair mise léann ariamh,
Nuair a léigh mé do litirse, a Chaitlín Tiriall.

Níl toint' ar mo bhrollach nár lig mé le gaoth,
Is má fhágaim an baile ní phillfidh mé choich',
Tháinig lionndubh ar m'aigne agus d'athraigh mo chiall,
Is nach trom sin ar d'anamsa, a Chaitlín Tiriall.

ó gheall tusa domhsa agus gheall tú fá dhó,
Nach ndéanfá mo mhalairt anois ná go deo,
Ná go bhfaca mé tusa is an fear údaí ag ól,
Is tú i gcúl an tom dreasóig' is mug leanna in do dhorn.

Níl bó is níl gamhain is níl caoire amháin,
ó bhruach Loch Oirgheall go malaidh an tsléibh' bháin,
Nach dtabharfainn do Chití ar an aon phóig amháin,
Is nach í a leigheasfadh an arraing tá frid mo lár.

ó shiúil mise thoir agus shiúil mise thiar,
Sligeach na long agus cé Bhaile átha Cliath,
Macasamhail mo chailín ní fhaca mé ariamh,
Nó go dtáinig mé 'na bhaile ionsar Chaitlín Tiriall.

Is nach mé an fear mallaithe tá i ngrá le bhliain
Is go mb'fhearr liom bean agam ná a bhfaca mé ariamh
ó fuigfidh mé na hAspail is an Eaglais uaim siar
Agus leanfaidh mé go héag tú, a Chaitlín Tiriall.


Translation from Áine Cooke's webpages

The night is frosty and bitter cold
And my love has eloped with another
Beloved of the glowing cheeks and sweet mouth
My Young Kathleen, I am ill and pining.

It was Young Kathleen who drove my senses wild
And left me sighing after her
Alas, that I ever went to school
To be able to read your letter, Caitlín Tiriall.

And now my rags are all in disorder*
And if I leave home I'll never return
A cloud hangs over my mind, I fear for my sanity
And that must lie heavy on your soul, Caitlín Tiriall.

Oh, you promised me once and promised me twice
That you would never take another man
But then I saw you with another
Behind a bush and a jug of beer in your hand.

There's not a cow or a sheep
From the shore of Lake Oireall to the top of the hill
I wouldn't give to Young Kathleen for just one kiss
That would take away the pain in my breast.

Oh I walked east and I walked west
From the harbor of Sligo to Dublin's quay
I never saw the likes of my girl
Nor did I find my travelling Kathleen**

I've been a cursed man in love for a year
And though I should prefer a wife I'd never seen***
Oh I will leave the Apostles and the Church behind
And I will follow you to the end, travelling Kathleen


* "Níl toint' ar mo bhrollach nár lig mé le gaoth" - "there's no thread on my chest that I didn't leave to the wind"; Áine's interpretation seems fine to me.

** "Nó go dtáinig mé 'na bhaile ionsar Chaitlín Tiriall" - until I came to the town wherein was Caitlín Tyrell (?)

*** I think a better translation is "I would prefer that woman [Caitlín] to any I've ever seen"

Triall comes from Kathleen/Catherine's surname (Tyrell, Tiriall); she is not "travelling Kathleen," although there is indeed an Irish word "triall" meaning a journey.


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Subject: Lyr Add: CAITLÍN TIRIALL
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 01:31 PM

Leagan i "Nua-dhuanaire II" le Breandán Ó Buachalla. BÁC[Dublin]: Institiúid Ardléinn, 1976


CAITLÍN TIRIALL

Is mian liomsa trácht ar gach ní le stuaim,
Is mian liom trácht ar Chití na gcuach,
Is í an planda breá leinbh atá saoithiúil suairc,
Is a samhail ní fhacfas i mbailtibh na dtuaith.

Is é mo chreach mhaidne nár fagadh mé
Ar bhruach Locha Eireall le fáinne an lae;
Mar shúil go bhfaighinn amharc ar Chití na gcraobh
Mar do chuala mé teisteas breáchta a scéimh'.

Is é mo léan gr mar chonnairc mé dúch mó peann,
Nó do chúl breá triopalach fáinneach fionn;
Acht dá dtógfadh an tiarna easpaigse lámh os mo chionn,
Bhéarfainn Cití an stáidbhean tar sáile liom.

Is é mo léan géar mar chonnairc mé dúch nó peann,
Nó do chúl breá triopalach fáinneach fionn;
Acht dá dtógfadh an tiarna easpaigse lámh os mo chionn,
Bhéarfainn Cití an stáidbhean tar sáile liom.

Is gile í ná an eala 'us is deirge í ná an ghrían,
Is binne í ná ar chuala mé de cheoltaibh ariamh;
Níl aon teach leanna reaca fón tsráide thiar,
Nach n-ólfaidh mé sláinte Chaitlín Tiriall.


Ó Buachalla's notes - RIA 23 E 12, 124 (1846)

Also in J Hardiman, Irish Minstrelsy 1 (London 1831), É Ó Muirgheasa, Céad de Cheoltaibh Uladh (BÁC 1915), T Ó Maille, Amhráin Chearbhalláin (ITS XVII, London 1916)

There are many versions of this song and the Ulster version is attributed to Cathal Buí Mac Giolla Gunna (see Ó Buachalla, Cathal Búi: amhráin, Dublin 1975). It's certain that he didn't compose it, but perhaps the original song goes back to the 17th century. Various songs are mixed together in the later versions [I think he means versions of Caitlín Tiriall include various loan verses from other songs.]


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Subject: Lyr Add: CEATAÍ NA gCRAOBH
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 01:34 PM

I think this is my last installment apart from a couple of tunes.

From Pádraig Mac Seáin "Ceolta Theilinn". Belfast, 1973. A version of Caitlín Tiriall collected in Teelin, sw Co Donegal.


CEATAÍ NA gCRAOBH

Anois 'sé is mian liom gach ní 'chur le stuaim
`S is mian liom trácht ar Cheataí na gCuach,
An planda deas leinbh a bhí sibhialta suairc
'S a samhailt ní fheicfidh mé áit ar bith uaim.

Is ag bruach Loch Eirill 'tá an tsídh-bhean tséimh,
Planda deaas leinbh ar mhór-uaisle Gael.
Ar mhná deas' na cruinne go bhfuair sí an chraobh
'S is méanra don té a gheobhad i gcleamhnas léi.

'Sí is binne, 'sí is finne, 'sí is áilne dlaoi;
'S is gile í fá dhó ná an sneachta ar an chraoibh.
'Sí péarla na chúil chlannmhair í, fuair taitneamh sa tir;
'Sí réalt na maidne í ar chailíní an tsaoil.

'Sí Ceataí do mhearaigh 1s do bhreoidh mo chiall,
Is a d'fhág mé ag osnail go mór 'n diaidh.
Níl sin teach leanna fán tsráid seo siar
Nacn n-olfad-sa sláinte Chaitlín Triall.

Níl a'n óganach barúil ó Bhaile Loch' Riach
Ar fad ins na bealaigh go Sráid Bhaile Ãth' Cliath
Nach dtabharfadh tús bealaigh do Chaitlín Triall;
Tá `n séan ar mo leanbh ó rugadh í riamh.

Mo bhrón mar a chonnaic mé dearg nó donn;
'Sé mo bhrón mar a chonnaic mé bruach na dtonn;
A Dhia, mar a phóg mé a béilín le fonn
'S a Cheataí na gCumann, déann réiteach liom.


Synopsis (P Mac Seáin & NJA Williams)
1 I wish to speak of Kitty of the Curls, the lovely child who is without equal.
2. On the shore of Loch Eirill is the gentle fairy-woman, fair child of the noble Gaels. She excels all women. Happy he who marries her.
3. Alas I am not left by Loch Eirill to catch a glimpse of Kitty!
4. she is most melodious, most fair haired, most beautiful in curls, whiter twice than snow. She is the morning star.
5. Kitty has deranged my sense. There is no one in the tavern along the street who will not drink to the health of Caitlín Triall.
6. All fine young men from Loughrea to Dublin yield way to her. She was fortunate from birth.
7. Alas that I ever received sight! O God, when I kissed her mouth! Kitty, make settlement with me.

Mac Seáin says he also came across a version of this song under the title of 'Caitlín Triall' in "Amhráin Chearbhallan" and that the author of that book says there is a version of the tune in Ó Neil's "Music of Ireland", Chicago: 1903 [O'Neill's collection has been re-printed fairly recently]. Mac Seáin didn't know whether or not that tune was the one sung in Teelin.


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Subject: RE: Caitlin Triall
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 05 Jun 02 - 01:36 PM

I forgot I'd also typed out the following:

Éinrí Ó Muireasa (Muirgheasa). "Céad de Cheolta Uladh" (1915, new edition 1983) has Ceataí na gCraobh (verse 5: Níl aon ógbhean mhaiseach ó mhóin go sliabh,/ ó gheataí na Gaillimhe go Catheir Bhleá Cliath,/Nach dtabharfadh tús bealaigh do Chaitlín Trial,/`S go bhfuil an séan ar an leanbh ó rugadh í ariamh) and Caitlín Trial (verse 1: Anois sé is mian liom gach ní chur le stuaim,/'S is mian liom trácht ar Cheataí na gcuach,/'S a samhail ní fheicfidh mé áit ar bith uaim.). The version published as "Caitlín Trial" has some verses in common with "Ceataí na gCraobh" as collected in the Teelin area by Pádraig Mac Seáin and the verse I quoted from Ó Muirgheasa's Ceataí na gCraobh also has similarities to a verse in Mac Seáin. All the versions in Ó Muirgheasa & Mac Seáin mention Loch [lake] Eirill. "Hardiman says it is probably a mistake for Lough Ennell in Co. Westmeath"

Ó Muirgheasa's notes: "This is a Co. Meath song, the first version being from Galligan's (Nobber) MS., and the second from a MS. By James Coyle of Dungimmon, Mountnugent, Co Cavan. Hardiman in his "Irish Minstrelsy", vol. 1, page 246, gives a third version, and he tells us there was more than one song made for Catherine Tyrell. She lived near Tyrell's Pass, Co Westmeath. Coyle says it was a very popular song in Meath and South Cavan about fifty years ago. It was sung to a beautiful air, which, Hardiman says, bore a close resemblance between Coyle's and Hardiman;s versions, but even between these there is still a wide difference: hardiman has but 24 lines. Having given these two versions in full and indicated where a third is to be found, I will go no further in detail into the various versions."

nor will I, without receiving specific request.


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Subject: RE: Caitlin Triall
From: michaelr
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 01:49 AM

Thanks Philippa, for including translations and notes. It is much appreciated.

Cheers,
Michael


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Subject: RE: Caitlin Triall
From: Áine
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 09:01 AM

Dear Philippa and Annraoi,

You're absolutely right that I should have the origins of the lyrics listed on my webpages. It may take a while, since I have so many songs there already; but, I promise to make a concerted effort to do so.

Philippa, I know that I got the lyrics for Caitlín Triall either from a CD or one of my books. I'll try to find the source and let you know.

Le meas is mise Áine


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Subject: RE: Caitlin Triall
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 06 Jun 02 - 06:30 PM

You can find the version sung by Aoife Ní Fhearthaigh, Caitlín Ní Dhomhnaill and Gearóidín Ní Bhreathnach (recording Ar Fhoscadh ha gCnoc, Cló Iar-Chonachta) at Aoife's website - including sound sample. That's the first version I posted.

Gearóidín says Conall Ó Donaill sings a different version of Caitlín Triall.

I've sent MMario sheet music for the Teelin version Ceataí na gCraobh, so the ABC should be posted soon.


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Subject: RE: Caitlin Triall
From: MMario
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 01:52 PM

X:1
T:CAITLIN TRIALL (1)
N:per Philippa"Tunes provided by Nicholas Carolan of the Irish Traditional Music Archive (Dublin) for Pat Muldowney. "Eoghan Ruadh O Suilleabhain: Na hAislingi - vision Poems".
N:Not to imply the Eoghan Ruadh o Suilleabhain composed Caitlin Triall, but the poems in the volume are set to tunes of other songs.
N:Caitlin Triall 1 here is similair to the tune used by Caitlin Ni Dhomhnaill and aoife Ni Fhearaigh (first lyrics in thread), but is more complex"
I:abc2nwc
M:6/4
L:1/8
K:G
z8z2(G E)|(D2E2)G2(G3A) B3/2 A/2|(G2g2f2e3)f (g e)|
(e d c) (B A G) G2(G2A2)|(B2c B) (A G) (F E3)(G E)|
(D2E2G2)(G3A B3/2 A)|(A2g2)(f2e3)z(g e)|
(e d c) (B A G) (G E3) (3GAB|(A2G2)G2G2z2d2|
(g2f2)g2e3z(f g)|(a3g) (f3/2 e/2) d4(d e/2 f/2)|
g2(g f e d) B2(c B A G)|(A2G/2 A/2 B) A G (E3F) (G E)|
(D2E2)G2(G3A) (B A)|(G2g2f2e3)z(g e)|
(e d c) (B A G) (G2E2)(G A/2 B/2)|(A2G2)G2G4z2


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Subject: RE: Caitlin Triall
From: MMario
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 02:06 PM

X:1
T:CEATAÍ NA gCRAOBH
N:From Pádraig Mac Seáin "Ceolta Theilinn". Belfast, 1973. A version of Caitlín Tiriall collected in Teelin, sw Co
N: Donegal.
N:submitted by Philippa
I:abc2nwc
M:3/4
L:1/8
K:C
z4G2|G2A2B2|c2d2c2|B2A2A2|G4G2|
(G2A2)B2|(c2B2)c2|d2e2f2|g4a2|
g2f2d2|c c B2c2|d2e2f2|g4f2|
f2d2B2|c2f2A2|A2G2G2|G4z2
w:A-nois 'sé is mian liom gach nídh 'chur le stuairn
w:`S~is mian_ liom trácht_ ar Chea-taí na gCuach,
w:An plan-da deas lein-bh a bhí si-bhial-ta suairc
w:'S~a sam-hailt ní fhei-cfidh mé áit ar bith uaim.


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Subject: RE: Caitlin Triall
From: GUEST,Donal
Date: 28 Mar 05 - 08:27 AM

I have CDs with two versions of Caitlin Triall as given above by Philippa, but I also have it on an old LP 'Ceol
na nUasal' with Seán Ó Sé singing. Unfortunately there are no sleeve notes and the words seem quite different to
any of those posted above, I believe that there was a CD made of 'Ceol na nUasal' some years ago and I wonder
if anyone has it and if there might be sleeve notes. A long shot, I know, but neither my Irish nor my hearing
are good enough to think of transcribing it so I would be grateful if anyone can help.
                                                                                    Don.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Caitlin Triall / Kitty Tyrell
From: GUEST,Margaret
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 06:40 PM

To the best of my knowledge (and some research) a Kitty Tyrell song was written by Thomas Furlong. Music was composed by the well known harpist Turlough O'Carolan. Kitty Tyrell lived near Mohill, Co Leitrim, Ireland as did Turlough O'Carolan when he married Mary Maguire from Fermanagh.
From the thread it seems there was a Kitty Tyrell song which comes from Scotland.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Caitlin Triall / Kitty Tyrell
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 07:00 PM

The tune "Kitty Tyrrell" was published by the Gows in Scotland - I don't know of Scottish words for it, and as far as I know it was always seen as an Irish tune.

Except that the volume where the Gows published it also includes "Niel Gow's Lament for his Second Wife", which is a variant of the same tune. And there's no comment at all on the connection. Some kind of statement was being made there but I can't figure it out at all.

Another set of words for it is "The lambs on the green hills", which is also Irish.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Caitlin Triall / Kitty Tyrell
From: Lighter
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 10:04 PM

A note to myself from years ago suggests that the tune "Caitlin ni Triall" is very much like that of "Eamonn an Chnoic."

Was I right?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Caitlin Triall / Kitty Tyrell
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 09:34 AM

I played through both tunes (Catherine Tyrell and Eamonn an Chnoic) as they appear in my O'Neill's Music of Ireland, and I don't think they are the same.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Caitlin Triall / Kitty Tyrell
From: Lighter
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 12:31 PM

Don't know about O'Neill except that his key signatures are sometimes off. The version of "CT" I'm thinking of is on The Chieftains Live!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Caitlin Triall / Kitty Tyrell
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 01:40 PM

The Chieftains are probably playing a different tune than is in my O'Neill's. My edition was published in 1903.

I'm sure we are both aware that tune names can vary over time.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Caitlin Triall / Kitty Tyrell
From: Lighter
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 07:25 PM

That's true, leeneia, but the Chieftains' version seems to be the one that's played these days. I don't know where they got it.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Caitlin Triall / Kitty Tyrell
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 08:24 PM


X:1
T:Ketty Terrol
C:Irish
S:Niel Gow and Sons, Second Repository, Second Edition, c.1810?
M:3/4
L:1/8
Q:1/4=100 "Slow"
K:Eb
E>C   |(B,2 C2)   E2 |~E4       EF    | (G2    e2)    d2 |{d}c4 \
(de)   |(cB) (AG) (FE) | E4       EF    | ~G2   (AG)````(FE) |   C4
E>C   | B,2 C2    E2 | E4       EF    | (G2    e2)    d2 |{d}c4 \
(de)   |(cB) (AG) (FE) |(E2 C2) (E/F/G)|{G}F2    E2      E2 |   E4:|
(B/c/d)|(e2   d2)   e2 | c2 d2   e2    |   f2   (ed)    Tc>B |   B4 \
(B/c/d)|(e2   d2)   e2 | B2 (cB) (AG)   |   G2 (3(EFG) (3(GFE)|   C4
E>C   |(B,2 C2)   E2 |TE4       EF    | (G2    e2)    d2 |{d}c4 \
(de)   |(cB) (AG) (~F>E)| E2 C2 (E/F/G)|{G}F2    E2      E2 |   E4:|


Sorry about the leading spaces, I can't get that to line up without using the <pre> tag and Mudcat gets that wrong.


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Subject: Lyr Add: KITTY TYRELL (Charles Jeffreys)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 03:34 PM

Other than the title, I don't see any connection to the above songs, but this one is charming it its own right:

From Songs of Ireland and Other Lands (New York: D. & J. Sadlier & Co., 1847), page 78:


KITTY TYRELL.
Charles Jeffreys.

1. You're looking as fresh as the morn, love.
You're looking as bright as the day,
But while on your charms I'm dilating,
You're stealing my poor heart away.
But keep it and welcome, mavourneen.
Its loss I'm not going to mourn;
Yet one heart's enough for a body,
So pray give me yours in return.

CHORUS: Mavourneen, mavourneen, &c.

2. I've built me a neat little cot, love.
I've pigs and potatoes in store.
I've twenty good pounds in the bank, love,
And maybe a pound or two more.
It's all very well to have riches,
But I'm not a covetous elf.
I can't help still sighing for something,
And, darling, that something's yourself.

3. You're smiling, and that's a good sign, love.
Say "Yes," and you'll never repent;
Or if you would rather be silent,
Your silence I'll take for consent.
That good-natured dimple's a tell-tale.
Now all that I have is your own.
This week you may be Kitty Tyrell,
Next week you'll be Mrs. Malone.


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Subject: Tune Add: KITTY TYRELL (Ernest Carter)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 03:44 PM

A voice and piano arrangement of KITTY TYRELL can be seen in The Mercersburg Academy Song Book by William Mann Irvine (Mercersburg, PA: W. M. Irvine, 1901), page 44.

The tune is attributed to C. W. Glover; the arrangement to Ernest Carter. I think the lyrics are the same as those given above (although I haven't checked in detail).


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Subject: Lyr Add: KITTY TYRELL (Robert Tannahill)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 03:57 PM

From Poems and Songs, Chiefly in the Scottish Dialect by Robert Tannahill (London: Longman, Hurst, Rees, Orme, and Brown, 1815), page 166:


KITTY TYRELL.

The breeze of the night fans the dark mountain's breast,
And the light bounding deer have all sunk to their rest;
The big sullen waves lash the loch's rocky shore,
And the lone drowsy fisherman nods o'er his oar.
Tho' pathless the moor, and tho' starless the skies,
The star of my heart is my Kitty's bright eyes,
And joyful I hie over glen, brake, and fell,
In secret to meet my sweet Kitty Tyrell.

Ah! long we have lov'd in her father's despite,
And oft we have met at the dead hour of night,
When hard-hearted Vigilance, sunk in repose,
Gave Love one sweet hour its fond tale to disclose;
These moments of transport, to me, oh! how dear!
And the fate that would part us, alas, how severe!
Altho' the rude storm rise with merciless swell,
This night I shall meet my sweet Kitty Tyrell.

"Ah! turn, hapless youth! see the dark cloud of death
Comes rolling in gloom o'er the wild haunted heath;
Deep groans the scath'd oak on the glen's cliffy brow,
And the sound of the torrent seems heavy with woe."
Away, foolish seer, with thy fancies so wild,
Go tell thy weak dreams to some credulous child,
Love guides my light steps thro' the lone dreary dell,
And I fly to the arms of sweet Kitty Tyrell.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Caitlin Triall / Kitty Tyrell
From: Lighter
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 05:58 PM

Tannahill's lyrics fit Jack's music; Jeffreys's don't, but presumably the name "Kitty Tyrell" was uncommon enough to suggest he got it from the name of the air.

It's interesting to see both.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Caitlin Triall / Kitty Tyrell
From: GUEST,GUEST, Xuan
Date: 19 Jul 11 - 03:33 PM

Does anybody knows the lyrics of Caitlín Triall as sung by Sean Ó Sé at the Ceoltoirí Chualann recod 'Ceol na nUasal'?
It is something different to other versions.
Thanks.
Xuan.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Caitlin Triall / Kitty Tyrell
From: Smokey.
Date: 19 Jul 11 - 04:23 PM

Xuan - they might be in Bunting's 'Ancient Music of Ireland' - I'll have a look later.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Caitlin Triall / Kitty Tyrell
From: GUEST,Xuan
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 12:17 PM

I have look for the lyrics of this song at Bunting's but I have not found it.
Any help will be welcomed.
I'm trying to collect the lyrics of the songs by Sean Ó Se / Ceoiltoirí Chualann, I have found many, but I connot found this one.
Best Regards.
Xuan.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Caitlin Triall / Kitty Tyrell
From: Smokey.
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 05:56 PM

No - the tune is in there but I can't find the lyrics either - sorry. I hope you find it.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Caitlin Triall / Kitty Tyrell
From: GUEST,Donal
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 11:22 PM

As indicated in my post above (28 March 05) I have looked for those words for some time without success. I have about seven or eight versions from different places but none are what
Ó Sé sings. Last year I saw Peadar Ó Riada's email address somewhere and contacted him to see if he could help, he replied promptly saying that he had emailed Seán Ó Sé about it, giving him my address, but I never heard from Ó Sé. So, I wish you luck, but I don't think that the words will be easy to find.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Caitlin Triall / Kitty Tyrell
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Oct 14 - 04:57 AM

I found the words that Seán Ó Sé sings in Ceol na nUasal in the book 'Diarmuid na Bolgaighe agus a Chomhursain' by Seán Ó Súilleabháin (Dublin 1937). In this version of Caitlin Trial he sings verses
1, 2 and 9 only.

1. Ni cnocáinín aitinn is ainm do'n áit seo
Ach gleann aoibhinn áluinn mar a dtaithneann ghrian,
Bíonn coll ann, bíonn cuileann, a's gach bile dá bhreághthacht
A's an tslaitín caol cárthainn gan filleadh gan fiar.
Bíonn uaisle Chláir Banban ag tarraingt thar sáile ann,
Cé, fóiríor tinn cásmhar! is in aistear a dtriall,
Ach anois ó táim scartha lem' athair a's lem' mhathair
Ólfaimíd sláinte Chaitlín Triall.

2. Do shiubhluigheas go hInis a's go himeall Chnuic Áine,
A's níor stadas de'n stáir sin go tigh Dhonncadh Daoi,
Cill Uird, Cill Choinnigh, Cill Mhuire, Cill Átha,
Cill Dara, Cil Áirne agus Cuileann Ui Chaoimh.
Dem' shiubhaltaibh níor stadas go Daingean na gCliar
A's a tuairisc ní bhfuaireas gur chasas aniar,
Sé chuala ar an gCarraig mar a stadadh an Fhiann
Gur fhuaduigh sí an bárr léi ó Chaitlin Trial.

3. Do shiubhluigheas cois Féile, cois Léithne, cois Laoi,
Cois Éirne, cois Brighde 'gus as san go Teamhair,
An Ruachtach, an Chlaedeach, an Bhéileach a's an tSnaidhm,
An Gheadach a's an Aoine, an Bheithe a's an Leamhain,
Go ndeaghas go Gleann Chárthaigh na sáir-fhear nár ghann
Dob' fhial fairsing fáilteach iad a mná 'gus a gclann,
Im' chuardaibh le n-áireamh níor thárluigh sí liom.
Agus ólfam a sláinte ó rángamar ann.

4. Do shiubhluigheas cois Fleisce, cois Mainge, cois Aidhle,
Árd-Fhearta, na Foithre a's go hAbhainn an Scáil,
Sléibhte dubha, garbh-chnuic, eascacha a's faillte,
Cathracha, aibhne, loingeas a's báid;
An Dá Chich, an Mhangarta a's DIseart an cheoidh,
Cnoc Fírinne an aitis, Cnoc Breasail a's an tSrón,
Chuadhas isteach d'eitill go Sceilg na gCorrog
Ach a tuairisc níor bhuail liom ann marbh ná beo.

5. Do shiubhluigheas go Cluain Meala 'gus as súd go Portláirge,
Tiobrad Árann a's Cathair Ui Mhidhe,
Is thíos i mBun Machan seadh d'eascair an lá orm
A's ar maidin amáireach i gCaiseal do bhíos,
Do sciúrdas trí Mhalla 'gus as san go Cluain
A's is ró-bhreagh do dhearcas gach baile 'gus cuan,
Ag féachaint cá dteangmhóchainn lem' chailín chiuin tsuairc
A's gur líon mo chroidhe d'athtuirse ó d'éaluigh sí uaim.

6. Ar mo chasadh abhaile tré Bharra na hAoine
Cé casfaí sa tslighe orm ach scafaire an cheoil,
Is é dubhairt sé, "Suidh farainn, taoi cortha ó'n tsíor-rith,
Nó an misde leat innsint cá bhfuil do ghnó?"
Is é dubhart-sa ghá fhreagairt gurbh fhada liom suidhe síos,
Mo chúrsaí le sealad gurab aindeis le hinnsint
I ndiaidh na stuaire ciuin cailce gur thugas taithneamh mo chroidhe dhi,
A's go raghad ar baois mara bhfaghad dul 'na treo.

7. Is é dubhairt an fear cneasta, "Tar chun mo thighe-se;
Fan farainn istoidhche a's ar maidin 'seadh gheobhair
An tuairisc cá mb-fhearra dhuit teacht chun bheith roimpi
I mBaile na Díseach mar a dtaistealann slóigh,
Mar a mbíonn uaisle Chláir Banban sealad ag fiadhach ann,
Ruadh-phuic dá dtreascairt, agus sealad ag iascach,
Tá muar-chuid d'á caraid i ngradam le ciantaibh
Is gurab eadtortha thriallann an fhinne-bhean óg.

8. "Mo chómhairle bheirim feasta dhuit, a fhairire an aoil-chnis,
Ó's duine ar baois thú atá ag rith ar do nós;
Do shuaimhneas do ghlacadh sa bhaile ar feadh mí dhuit
Go sásta ag síol-chur agus scurtha go fhoill.
Má fhúig an ainnir thú fara mar' bhí sí
Buaidhreamh ná mairg ná glac-se dá dhruim sin,
A's a liacht spéirbhean chailce gan fear ins an tír seo
Chómh geanamhail gnaoi le Caitlín Óig."

9. Nuair a thagaim-se abhaile a's mé tuirseach ó'n mbóthar
Is dubhach me ag féachaint ar fhrathacha an tighe,
A's is doilbh bhíonn mh'intinn i gan fhios do'n tsaoghal
A's ar mo leabaidh nuair théighim ní choclaim puinn,
Ach ag smaoineamh a's ag machtnamh im' aigne féin
Ar ainnir na gcraobh a bhí bachallach buidhe,
A's go dtabharfainn a bhfeaca de mhaithibh an tsaoghail seo
D'fhonn cara mo chleibh a d'fhiscint aris.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Caitlin Triall / Kitty Tyrell
From: GUEST,mitchmack
Date: 01 May 15 - 10:10 PM

Thank you so much for this version! I've been wanting to learn this one for a long time.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Caitlin Triall / Kitty Tyrell
From: Lighter
Date: 30 May 17 - 01:04 PM

Getting back to my posts of 2010, I'm starting to think that the tune played on the Chieftains Live! really *is* Eamonn a Chnoic, mistakenly identified as the very similar version of "Caitlin ni Triall."

They aren't identical, but they're clearly variants of the same tune.

The nice version of "Triall" played here on the whistle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW7Xz59Jzcw

is different but related.


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