Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?

Subject: Guitar Player on Darin's'Dream Lover '?
From: GUEST,Tom Dowling
Date: 13 Jun 03 - 12:24 AM

I listened to a decent CD version of Bobby Darin's "Dream Lover" recently and was struck by the dinsinctive guitar work. Any thoughts on how to find out who the musician was on that cut?

Thanks,

Tom D.

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: Steve-o
Date: 13 Jun 03 - 01:00 PM

There is a ton of stuff on Bobby Darin, but I couldn't come up with any definitive "credits" from albums. A good "wild guess" would be Glen Campbell.

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: fat B****rd
Date: 17 Jun 03 - 04:39 AM

Fred Neil.

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: Walking Eagle
Date: 17 Jun 03 - 04:05 PM

Yeah, Fred Neil. My brother has all of Bobby Darin's 45's and 33's.

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: GUEST,Vin Sclesa
Date: 17 Jun 03 - 05:10 PM

Fred Neil worked with Bobby Darin on the Brill building demo of "Dream Lover." He did not play on the session for the recording that was released.

Darin's producer when he recorded "Dream Lover" was Ahmet Ertegun of Atlantic Records. Ertegun, like most producers in the 50s and 60s, had a pool of NY studio musicians that he called on. It could have been any of those.

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: GUEST,Tom Dowling
Date: 22 Jun 03 - 11:50 PM

My thanks to the responders. I appreciate, but doubt, the Glen Campbell suggestion. The guitar is Calypso/Cha-Lypso--almost 'proto-reggae' to my ear, sounds I would not associate with the Wichita Lineman.

Is responder Vin Sclesa who I think it is? If so, I listen to you a lot and have since the old WNEW days.

I appreciate the suggestions and regret that I didn't get back here sooner to say thanks.

Be well,

Tom Dowling

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jun 03 - 06:46 AM

Glen Campbell worked on the West Coast, not, as far as I know, in New York, and would be just a bit too young given the recording date of Dream Lover. I was listening to Darins Mack the Knife the other day after not hearing it for about 20 years: what a great performance, and it sounds to me like he & the orchestra modulate upwards through 5 different keys.

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: fat B****rd
Date: 23 Jun 03 - 02:54 PM

As a point of interest I was bemused to find that Barney Kessel played on quite a few of the Coasters big hits.

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: Mark Ross
Date: 23 Jun 03 - 03:15 PM

David Bromberg also did quite a few studio recordings back then, among them, I think, THIS DIAMOND RING if I'm not mistaken. And a big hello to Vin Scelsa who I haven't seen in many a year.

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jun 03 - 05:05 PM

Yes - all very imteresting, but can any of you answer the question put by Tom Dowling? Actually, I'd be really interested to know who the guitar player was.

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 23 Jun 03 - 05:18 PM

The reply at 05.05PM interests me. He/She is complaining because certain postings are drifting away from the thrust of the original posting. That is true but some interesting stuff is emerging. Anyway, is there a definition to "thread" ? Can a thread not weave and bend and even metamorphosize ( where's my dictionary )? Although, it can be a bit disappointing when it's your original thread that is hi-jacked!
!

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: GUEST,Tom Dowling
Date: 23 Jun 03 - 11:49 PM

Thread Creep is great with me. The nugget about David Bromberg, for example, was news to be, but it makes sense. Still, I remain interested in who that guitar player was and am glad that a couple other folks are curious as well. The sound was, for me, distinctive and essentially unprecedented. This was back in the hayday of bubble gum music on one or, if you were lucky, two, AM radio stations.

Tom Dowling

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: C-flat
Date: 24 Jun 03 - 02:42 AM

Another likely possible would be Tommy Tedesco ("The most recorded man in history") who worked regularly with Darin and just about everybody else too!

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: GUEST,Kenny Lee
Date: 31 May 12 - 07:37 PM

Another possibility could be Bob Bain. Vintage Guitar Mag (May 2012) has him listed as playing on some Darin tracks, and since he was on everyone else's, and played all kinds of TV/Movie themes, perhaps that is his work. Sounds like a Jazzmaster to me, but he might have gotten those great sounds from his Telecaster with the neck humsucker.

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: pdq
Date: 31 May 12 - 08:33 PM

very likely: Barney Kessel

possible: George Barnes

unlikely: Glen Campbell

definitely not: David Bromberg

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 May 12 - 08:58 PM

Jerry Cole is another possible contender ?

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 May 12 - 09:04 PM

"Dream lover" / "Bullmoose" Session Notes -

http://www.bobbydarin.net/sn_030559.html

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: pdq
Date: 31 May 12 - 09:48 PM

possible: Mundell Lowe

maybe possible: Al Ciola

Fact is, the identity of the guitarist on that session is not known.

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: pdq
Date: 01 Jun 12 - 08:28 PM

OK, another source say it is definitely Al Caiola.

Makes more sense than most of ther other possible choices since they mostly worked the West Coast and this session was in New York.

Even Tommy Tedesco, who was from the state of New York, moved to Southern California early is his career.

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 05:19 PM

ATCO used MICKEY BAKER a lot on leads (of Mickey and Sylvia's Love is Strange). Mickey was a big influence on Buddy Holly. And that's Mickey on a lot of the Coasters records such as I'M A HOG FOR YOU.

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: pdq
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 05:37 PM

It was Al Caiola.

He lists that song on his website and takes credit for the featured guitar work.

Caiola also admits he heard Duane Eddy records and ripped-off the low string lead style he used on the theme to Bonanza TV show and The Good, Bad and the Ugly movie soundtrack.

I think he is still alive, in his mid 90s.

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: pdq
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 06:05 PM

The Good, the Bad and the Ugly Magnificent Seven theme...sheesh...

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: GUEST,calico1947
Date: 24 Mar 14 - 05:11 PM

Fred Neil was the 12 string guitar player on the "Dream Lover" demo session. According to Michael Seth Starr in his biography on Bobby Darin (Bobby Darin: A Life) it was Neil Sedaka who suggested that the guitar part be put up an octave. Fred, Al Caiola, or whoever did the final session still copied Fred Neil's original guitar part.

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: PHJim
Date: 24 Mar 14 - 11:58 PM

Mickey Baker was such a versatile player. He played with many jazz players as well as those already mentioned.
I bought Baker's yellow and black Jazz guitar book in about 1960 and still use most of the chord shapes and progressions when I pay swing.
I recall seeing Gambel Rogers playing at a festival and, recognising some of Baker's progressions, I asked, "Did you study from Mickey Baker's Jazz guitar book?"
He answered, "Didn't everyone?"

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: GUEST,Guest - Texas Guest
Date: 25 Mar 14 - 12:23 AM

One name that has not been mentioned is Jim (Roger) McGuinn who played with Darin for a time. Just might be that he's the one you're lookin' for. Jus' sayin'. Cheers.

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 25 Mar 14 - 12:38 PM

McGuinn was 17 in 1959! He certainly wasn't doing top session work then!

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 21 Nov 14 - 02:04 PM

Let me throw a kink into this discussion - According to my information - it was the Seattle 1950s-early 60s jazz-rock band The Frantics that backed Darin on "Dream Lover".

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jun 15 - 03:51 PM

it was George Barnes who also did guitar solo on Lipstick on your Collar

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: GUEST,tom draghi
Date: 10 Jul 15 - 04:40 PM

I was wondering who this was and found your site. it is also (according to my ear) the same guitarist who did the work on steve lawrence's "Pretty Blue Eyes". So, one could ask steve lawrence if he knows the answer.

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: GUEST,tom draghi
Date: 10 Jul 15 - 04:54 PM

Al Caiola also is the touring guitarist with steve lawrence so it makes the most sense.

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 11 Jul 15 - 01:41 PM

Here's a link to a George Barnes album. No mention of "Dream Lover", but, of course, it could still be George but maybe permission to use the track was denied.
BUT, it does say that George was on The Coasters " I'm a hog for you" that the previous posters says was Mickey Baker.



George Barnes session tracks

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Jul 15 - 05:36 PM

A very good guitar player, makes you realise how awful some of the guitarists were on early British rock records!

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: GUEST,Kenny Lee
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 11:17 PM

I will offer, whomever played guitar on it, that this is a Jazzmaster, middle selector position (I cut my teeth on my brother's 1960, in 1961), and this was most likely one of the very first ever recorded, from what I can tell (I cannot remember hearing one earlier than this). Sure would love to know for sure, who this was, because it is some excellent playing, back in the day when you got it right, or you messed up the whole recording.

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: Hagman
Date: 29 Jul 17 - 11:39 PM

Some info of interest (but with no answer to the question) here

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: GUEST,Dave H
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 01:49 AM

Not too sure about the Fender Jazzmaster....I'll bet is was a Gibson Les Paul Custom.

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 05:27 AM

Well, to my ears, the sax players were the guys playing the interesting breaks back then, but not many people seem interested in them.

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 05:48 AM

"Not too sure about the Fender Jazzmaster....I'll bet is was a Gibson Les Paul Custom"

a Black Black Beauty for sure, played through a Gibson amp of course!!

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: GUEST,lou
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 09:04 PM

I was ten when this came out, and also Peggy Lee's Fever. Every song mentioned here has other songs link on Utube - I just had a wonderful nostalgia trip! Great music was happening in 1959!

Same year for Kind of Blue... and Black Orpheus!

Subject: RE: Guitar Player on Darin's 'Dream Lover '?
From: GUEST,Peter L. Neff
Date: 12 Apr 20 - 04:48 PM

According to Elaine Orlando, Fred Neil was the guitarist on the March 1959 Darin sessions that produced "Dream Lover" and "Bullmoose." He also was the guitarist on the Dream Lover demo, which was discovered by Joel Dorn at the derelict New Jersey warehouse that had housed all of Atlantic Records master recordings before a devastating fire swept through the facility and destroyed most of them.