Origins: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin

Subject: Lyr Add: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Jun 03 - 02:53 AM

I got a desperate message from Mmario last week, looking for this tune. He says Noreen sent the tune to me, but I may have lost it when I switched computers. So I transcribed it. Please don't beat me too severely, MMario and Noreen. Heck, I even found some additional lyrics.

Here goes:

MICHAEL FINNIGIN

There was an old man named Michael Finnigin
He had whiskers on his chinigin
The wind came up and blew them in ag'in
Poor old Michael Finnigin
Begin ag'in

There was an old man named Michael Finnigin
He got drunk through drinking ginigin
That's who he wasted all his tinnigin
Poor old Michael Finnigin
Begin ag'in

There was an old man named Michael Finnigin
He grew fat and then grew thin ag'in
then he died, and had to begin ag'in
Poor old Michael, please don't
Begin ag'in

Source: 1002: The Complete Children's Songbook (Hansen House, 1975, 1986)

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Click to play

(the tune is my adaptation of what I found in the two songbooks, since I didn't like either one completely)

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Here's what Norman Cazden has:

MICHAEL FINNIGIN

There once was a man named Michael Finnigin,
He grew whiskers on his chinnigin,
The wind came up and blew them innigin,
Poor old Michael Finnigin. (Beginnigin)

There once was a man named Michael Finnigin,
He got drunk from too much ginnigin
So he wasted all this tinnigin,
Poor old Michael Finnigin. (Beginnigin)

There once was a man named Michael Finnigin,
He went fishing with a pinnigin,
Caught a fish but he dropped it innigin,
Poor old Michael Finnigin. (Beginnigin)

There once was a man named Michael Finnigin,
Climbed a tree and barked his shinnigin,
Took off several yards of skinnigin,
Poor old Michael Finnigin. (Begirinigin)

There once was a man named Michael Finnigin,
He kicked up an awful dinnigin
Because they said he must not sinnigin,
Poor old Michael Finnigin. (Beginnigin)

There once was a man named Michael Finnigin,
He grew fat and he grew thinnigin,
Then he died, and we have to beginnigin,
Poor old Michael Finnigin. (Beginnigin)

New words and music by Norman Cazden
Source: Merry Ditties (Norman Cazden, 1958)

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Any other versions/verses?

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There's even an entry in the Traditional Ballad Index:

Michael Finnegan

DESCRIPTION: Of the exploits of Michael Finnegan, constantly urged to "begin again" after a variety of escapades such as the wind blowing his whiskers back into his chin, or growing fat and then growing thin
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1923 (Camp Clavell and Girl Reserve Club Songs)
KEYWORDS: nonballad nonsense humorous campsong
FOUND IN: US(MW) New Zealand
REFERENCES (7 citations):
Sutton-Smith-NZ-GamesOfNewZealandChilden/FolkgamesOfChildren, p. 134, "(Little Michael Finnigan)" (1 text)
Brophy/Partridge-TommiesSongsAndSlang, p. 66, "Michael Finnigan" (1 short text)
Silber/Silber-FolksingersWordbook, p. 242, "Michael Finnigan" (1 text)
Pankake/Pankake-PrairieHomeCompanionFolkSongBook, p. 201, "Michael Finnigan" (1 text, 1 tune)
Averill-CampSongsFolkSongs, pp. 132, 255, 259, 390-391, 415, "Michael Finnigan" (notes only)
BoyScoutSongbook1997, p. 41, "Michael Finnegan" (1 text, 1 tune)
DT, MIKFINEG
Roud #10541
RECORDINGS:
Pete Seeger et al, "Finnegan Beginigin" (on PeteSeeger11)
NOTES [38 words]: It perhaps says something about the American education system that this song was forced upon me in grade school, but the schools would never have even contemplated a serious ballad with something resembling actual content.... - RBW
Last updated in version 6.3
File: FSWB242B

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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: Lanfranc
Date: 20 Jun 03 - 03:32 AM

OK, my Colonial brethren, 1971 may be the earliest date on that side of the pond, but I can remember singing the song in Primary School in the 1950s - a likely date would be 1955.

I'll dig out my collection of booklets from "Singing Together", a BBC Radio programme for schools that provided the first exposure to folksong for many young Brits, and get back to you!

Alan

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: Schantieman
Date: 20 Jun 03 - 04:21 AM

I, too, learned it at primary school - in the sixties and I've just started singing it with my seven year old daughter. The tune you have, Joe, is the one I know.

Steve

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Jun 03 - 04:30 AM

Hi, Alan - people always question the dating system used by the Traditional Ballad Index, but it makes sense. The date is the earliest publication date of books that have been indexed that contain the song in question. The song may be much older, and there may be older books that contain the song, but those books have not yet been indexed by the Traditional Ballad Index.
The date does come in handy, because it sets a solid date for the first known time that the song appeared in print (within the limitations of the indexing process). This can affect a performer's need to pay royalties.
My Cazden book takes it back to 1958, but I'm sure it's much older than that. Apparently, it's also in the Oxford Songbook, published in 1927 - but I don't have access to that book and would be reluctant to swear by any source I can't look at.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: masato sakurai
Date: 20 Jun 03 - 08:59 AM

One verse (without music) is found in John Brophy and Eric Partridge, eds., Songs and Slang of the British Soldier: 1914-1918, 2nd ed. (Eric Partridge Ltd. at the Scholartis Press, 1930, p. 83):

                Michael Finnigan
                   (Chant)

      Poor old Michael Finnigan,
      He grew whiskers on his chinnigan.
      The wind came out,
      And blew them in again,
      And that's the end of poor Michael Finnigan.

Note.--A pre-war folk-song which the soldiers resuscitated and gave a new life much more vigorous than that which it had in its early days.

~Masato

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Jun 03 - 09:04 AM

Sang it in the Cub Scouts back around 1953.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 21 Jun 03 - 12:25 PM

I think the tune is the same as PAW-PAW PATCH. The words to that song are given in this old thread.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Jun 03 - 01:31 PM

I'd say the tune is similar, Jim, but not quite the same - it's the last line that's different.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 21 Jun 03 - 02:25 PM

You're right, Joe. When I was mentally comparing the two songs, I never got as far as the last line. And Masato correctly pointed out, in the other thread, that "One little, two little, three little Indians..." belongs to the same family.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: Night Owl
Date: 21 Jun 03 - 03:05 PM

Joe-the midi you "adapted" is exactly the way I learned the tune, I think at camp......back when the dinosaurs roamed the earth. Good job with it.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: Penny S.
Date: 22 Jun 03 - 01:49 PM

We had this banned at school - can anyone explain why? It was a good little girls' private school, and I think we learned it from the BBC. It may simply be that it was out favourite, and we requested it too often, but that hint about the war might be a clue, I suppose. Rather like our student teacher of French being forbidden to continue to teach us "Il etait un petit navire" - the one where the little cabin boy actually gets et, as dfar as I can discover.#

Thanks for posting the full set of words - I've wanted to know them for ages.

Penny

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: GUEST,SomeOne
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 07:32 AM

I like this song and I'm trying to find it somewhere on the internet.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: Celtaddict
Date: 08 Nov 05 - 11:28 PM

I learned this in the fifties, from my grandmother, in Kansas City, Missouri. We sang only "There was an old man named Michael Finnegan, had long whiskers on his chinnegan, the wind came along and blew them innegan, poor old Michael, POOR old Michael, poor old Michael Finnegan. Beginnegan. There was an old man..." and it ran on until someone at least was discouraged. The tune was about the same as "Ten Little Indians" but in the last line, the middle "poor old Michael" has the "poor old" moved up I believe a fifth.
Our family skis and we call that wind that is so strong that, when you get off the lift or turn a corner into the wind, it pushes you back, a "Finnegan's Wind" for this song.
My grandmother was of Scot family; this was a couple of generations back but there have been some family expressions we used that I did not hear from anyone else in Oklahoma that Oxford English Dictionary describes as "archaic Scots" so we could well have some random throwbacks.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: RobbieWilson
Date: 09 Nov 05 - 11:01 AM

surely the whole point is that it is a song whch instructs you to begin agin, so you do. That's why there is only the one verse, you begin agin. Whoever added the later verses missed the point all together. It's like " There's a hole in the bucket dear Liza, only gets to the point quicker

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: GUEST,Paris, France
Date: 18 Jan 06 - 02:12 PM

Bonjour mah breeteesh frawnds,
we in fransh have a seemeelart song, we call eet "Michel Finnigrande"

eet goest,
"Il y une fois avait homme Michel Finnigrande nommé, Il a grandi des moustaches sur son chinnigin, Le vent est
monté et blem les innigin, vieux Michel Finnigrande Pauvre. (Beginnigin)"

eet was from befor Napoleon, parhaps circa 1760s?

-Jean Baptiste

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jan 06 - 05:50 AM

I remember my late father (in Northern Ireland) singing the words of this song (I can remember the verses about Growing whiskers on his chin and climbing up a tree and barking his shin. This would probably have been in the late 1950s (I was born in 1953) or possibly early 1960s, but as my father was born in 1916 and I see from above that the song was published in the 1920s and 1930s in Britain/USA (though it may date back to before the 1st World War), and hence it may have been popular when he was growing up. The name Michael Finnegan is certainly of Irish orgin as is John Brophy, who co-wrote (with Eric Partridge) the 1930 book on songs of the 1st World War.

A pity that there are now so few people left alive from the 1st World War, who might oteherwise be able to throw some light on this subject.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: GUEST,me
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 08:24 AM

i love that rhyme its so understanding becuase of Michael Finnigin we all no not to do any of those things!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: GUEST,Emily and Corynne
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 03:35 PM

in 5th grade we learned this song and now corynnes sister in 5th is learning it. In her class, there is a girl named Alexis Finnigan and her dads name is Michael so when they sang the song in music, Alexis started crying.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: banjoman
Date: 28 Jan 08 - 06:26 AM

I have awkward memories of this song as my surname is very close to that of the aforesaid Michael Finnegan (Finnegan is probably a corruption of the original name which I have). I also have a brother named Michael who hated this song whenever it was sung.
I remember it being sung in the scouts in the late forties and fifties and as a sort of round in shool where I tried hard not to look embarrased

Pete

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: GUEST,alexis finnigan
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 09:10 PM

you people are mean!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: GUEST,ash
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 10:06 AM

my grandad was called michael and was Irish he took up boxing because the English kids would taunt him with this song.That was back in the 1930's

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: banjoman
Date: 25 Nov 08 - 06:22 AM

My Dad sang this to us in the 1940's but only the one verse. Having a surname very close to that of the songs subject, I always felt it was about my brother Michael till someone put me right. My dad claimed to have learnt the song at school in the 1920's.
pete

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: GUEST,Me
Date: 12 Feb 10 - 06:30 PM

I am singing this song tomorrow for contest. I hope that I can remember all of the words. The song version that i am singing is a little different than this is. (We are singing the soprano, base, tenor, and alto parts, so it might differ in some parts!!)
This is an awesome song!!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: GUEST,michael macdonell
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 11:32 PM

i though it when like this,

there once was a man names michael finnegan
he had some wiskers on his chinaging
the wind blew them off and they grew in agign
poor old michael finnagen begin agign.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: GUEST,Barbara
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 04:49 PM

Yes, you all, but who wrote the tune? Was it pinched from a Grieg piece? Sounds like it!!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Mar 15 - 03:23 AM

Can anybody answer Barbara's question? Where's the tune from? It sound so familiar.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Mar 15 - 03:31 AM

During the post war years my Uncle George became a piano playing music teacher in Norf Lundun. One day, with an embryonic interest in 'folk songs' I asked him to play me some folk songs. He sat at our John Broadwood and duly played and sang a host of songs including the one uder discussion. At that stage in my folk development I failed to appreciate the finer points of this musical genre being a follower of Seeger, Dylan and PPM.
But now in the fulness of time, maybe I can dip into the pool of songs he so willingly shared with me in that brief moment.

Subject: Michael Finnegan
From: Tuvya
Date: 08 Oct 17 - 11:42 PM

I remember singing:

THERE WAS A MAN NAMED MICHAEL FINNEGAN
HE HAD WHISKERS ON HIS CHINIGIN
SHAVED EM OFF BUT THEY GREW IN AGAIN
POOR OLD MICHAEL FINNEGAN BEGIN AGAIN

Subject: RE: Origins: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 09 Oct 17 - 09:20 AM

Same tune: In and out the woods and bluebells, Bobby Shaftoe A music.

Subject: RE: Origins: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Oct 18 - 09:13 PM

RE: NOTES,
In children's songs, repetition serves various educational purposes: repetition aids memory, can aid in learning punctuation and reading skills, and is very valuable in learning (foreign) languages. Plus, they're fun for kids to sing, and they often teach them to other kids.

Subject: RE: Origins: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: GUEST,Tony Wright
Date: 12 Apr 19 - 01:13 PM

There is some strong provenance in the form of personal references to the man "Michael Finnegan" in World War I leading many to believe the song originated in the trenches of that conflict. The first verse documented was "He grew whiskers on his chinn-again, he shaved them off and they grew in-again" was a very popular ditty, it seemed to grow from there.

Subject: RE: Origins: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: leeneia
Date: 13 Apr 19 - 09:36 PM

I sang this song in school about 1956. I thought it really tiresome. The teacher may have sensed that she didn't have a hit on her hands, because we only sang it a few times.

If you want a tune, copy and paste this into your URL box.

https://www.flutetunes.com/tunes.php?id=254

Subject: RE: Origins: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: GUEST,Peter Cripps
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 05:47 AM

I thought there was another recent thread on this song, and the earliest publication date was given as 1933 - Hackney Scout Songbook? Anyway, we have been doing this song recently for our Care Home audiences, and it goes down really well, they all seem to know it, and find it really amusing (That may be the way we sing it, of course!)

Subject: RE: Origins: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: Ged Fox
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 08:02 AM

It is included in the 1922 edition of the Hackney Scout Song Book

Subject: RE: Origins: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: mayomick
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 10:14 AM

I agree what Robbie Wilson said back in 2005 -" the point is that it is a song whch instructs you to begin agin, so you do.” James Joyce suggested infinity with his title Finnegan's Wake . What Guest said in 2018 about the repetition being an aid to memory is right as well imo . Musicians kept it in their heads to keep a rhythm going over and over again.

(Je suspect le motivation de 2006 visiteur de Paris , France .Il est possiblement un impostor)

Subject: RE: Origins: Michael Finnegan / Finnigin
From: GUEST,Keith C
Date: 03 Feb 23 - 03:12 PM

As a child (1976-ish) we had a 78 speed record of this song, sounded like a radio show host from the 50's singing it, with a Gomer Pyle-like voice, and he had someone playing kazoo in the background who played a little ditty after every "Begin again". On the last verse (I think out of 3 or 4) the kazoo guy kept going and he say "Well...no, no, that's the end", "No, that's it.", "Oh, dog-gone **mumble** **mumble**", and as the song faded out "Well why don't he quit?" but the kazoo guy kept going the whole time. My sister and I thought it was hilarious. Somewhere in the song he even said the kazoo guy's name, can't remember what it was though...something childish like Wilber, or Ducky. I'd hoped to find it on YouTube to play for my kids, or that one of these blogs might tell me who the singer was...alas.
The lyrics I remember went:

There was an old man named Michael Finnegan
He grew wiskers high on his chin'egan
He shaved them off, but they grew in'egan
Poor ol' Michael Finnegan
(half-note pause)
Begin again

(Kazoo played for a frame: k'wiki-wiki-wew-wew, k'wiki-wiki-wew, k'wiki-wiki-wew-wew, k'wiki-wiki-wew)

There was an old man named Michael Finnegan
He shaved wiskers off of his chin'egan
The wind come up and blow them in'egan
Poor ol' Michael Finnegan
(half-note pause)
Begin again

(Kazoo played for a frame: k'wiki-wiki-wew-wew, k'wiki-wiki-wew, k'wiki-wiki-wew-wew, k'wiki-wiki-wew)

There was an old man named Michael Finnegan
(can't recall the lyrics here...
...but the end result is he dies)
Poor ol' Michael Finnegan
(half-note pause)
That's the end of'him

(Kazoo plays for a couple frames: k'wiki-wiki-wew-wew, k'wiki-wiki-wew, k'wiki-wiki-wew-wew, k'wiki-wiki-wew (repeat)

While the kazoo keeps playing, the singer says each of these with some pauses between each:
"Well...no, no, that's the end"
"No, that's it."
"Oh, dog-gone **mumble** **mumble**"
And as the song fades out "Well why don't he quit?"