You don't hear what I hear!

Subject: You don't hear what I hear!
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 03:28 PM

No two people hear the same piece of music exactly the same. Age, listening experience, different cultural backgrounds,etc. all influence how we hear a particular piece of music; for example, a person brought up in India, listening to Indian music, upon hearing Ravi Shankar playing a raga would hear a very different piece of music than somebody from Texas who was brought up on country music. This is just a - rather extreme - example of why it can be wrong to assume that if a performer doesn't communicate with a listener, then it's the performers fault.

Subject: RE: You don't hear what I hear!
From: artbrooks
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 03:50 PM

So?

Subject: RE: You don't hear what I hear!
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 03:53 PM

And your point is?

Subject: RE: You don't hear what I hear!
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 04:00 PM

No point. Just making an observation about something which will have some sort of baring on anything - (everything ? )- you might say, or think, about music!

Subject: RE: You don't hear what I hear!
From: Stewart
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 04:09 PM

"Irish music all sounds the same" is a complaint often voiced by the uninitiated. But the more you listen, study, and play it, the more interesting and enjoyable it becomes. There are reels, jigs (double jigs, slip jigs, slides), hornpipes, polkas, etc., different styles of playing, tunes that are related and go well in a set, and those that don't. I think with any kind of music, the more you delve into it and understand the forms, scales, rhythms etc. the more interesting it becomes. But that takes time and a lot of listening. On the other hand, there's some music that I don't think I'll ever learn to enjoy.

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: You don't hear what I hear!
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 04:12 PM

BBBBRRRRAAAAAWWWWMMMMPPPP

So how'd that sound to you?

Spaw

Subject: RE: You don't hear what I hear!
From: GUEST,tunesmith
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 04:25 PM

Ah. Well, you see "BBBBRRRRAAAAWWWWMMMMPPPP" is a word! I was talking about music!

Subject: RE: You don't hear what I hear!
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 04:27 PM

Maybe your next thread should be;

"I've noticed that the sky is blue, sometimes"

Because non of us would realise without your erudite exposition....

Subject: RE: You don't hear what I hear!
From: DonMeixner
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 04:34 PM

Ya See Tunes, when I was talking about communication, I was talking about the words. But I do understand your point. Without looking I think I said "All things be equal....." or words to that effect.
Someone brought up in an Asian or Sub-Asian culture will hear and be used to entirely different intervals of musical tones than a Texan or any Western(In the universal sense) person for that matter.

I hold with my original thesis, but thats an opinion, and that's enough to have a horse race.

Don

Spaw, better check the spelling there. I think the "M" is silent.

Subject: RE: You don't hear what I hear!
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 04:35 PM

Ah. Guest, my obsevation is different than your twee comment, because this site is about music ( most of the time! ), not the colour of the sky! But don't you think it's interesting that no two people hear the same piece of music exactly the same?

Subject: RE: You don't hear what I hear!
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 04:38 PM

Not particularly, no. It stikes me as self evident

Subject: RE: You don't hear what I hear!
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 04:40 PM

Tunesmith, what cave did you just crawl out of?

Subject: RE: You don't hear what I hear!
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 04:43 PM

Don. I did say the Indian/Texas example was an extreme one. But, to illustrate my point, you have to look no further than youself! You hear things differently now than you did in the past. What might have enthralled you 10 years ago might bore you know. This is what makes criticism of music - and alot more - so dodgy.

Subject: RE: You don't hear what I hear!
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 05:13 PM

Tunesmith,

I don't know if you're new to the internet, but stating the obvious, isn't really what discussion sites like this are about...

The good threads are one's where people learn something.

We all know that "what might have enthralled you 10 years ago might bore you now"

We are all over 10 years old, and don't need the obvious stated for us, thanks.

Subject: RE: You don't hear what I hear!
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 05:23 PM

Guest. Why are you so annoyed ? Problems with wife?

Subject: RE: You don't hear what I hear!
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 05:29 PM

I'm not annoyed at all, I just dislike crap. Being female, I don't have a wife....

Subject: RE: You don't hear what I hear!
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 05:29 PM

This thread sucks.

It is a dumb topic.

Subject: RE: You don't hear what I hear!
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 05:31 PM

Agreed, Martin.

Hopefully, 'tunesmith' will realise that soon

Subject: RE: You don't hear what I hear!
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 05:49 PM

I think one of the problems here is that some people have taken the thread title " You don't hear what I hear" as some sort of criticism or superior attitude. It's just a statement of a fact that some readers might not have considered but might now like to ponder. AND I am appalled at the bad manners of some of the people posting here!

Subject: RE: You don't hear what I hear!
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 05:51 PM

You should see me at the dinner table.

Subject: RE: You don't hear what I hear!
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 06:17 PM

AND I am appalled at the bad manners of some of the people posting here!

Frankly, I'm appalled by your utter inability to take a hint, and overall level of idiocy.

But what do I know...

Subject: RE: You don't hear what I hear!
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 06:37 PM

Welll, since I am sooo very hard of hearing, I don't hear what you hear........

Subject: RE: You don't hear what I hear!
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 06:44 PM

Eh? What?

Subject: RE: You don't hear what I hear!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 07:21 PM

Tunesmith, I think you may be right, but is it the responsibility of the performer to relate to his/her audience (or his/her art) or vice versa?

Anonymous guest, are you trawling for a sexist comment, or just trolling, or do you in fact have anything intelligent to say?

Subject: RE: You don't hear what I hear!
From: Helen
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 08:18 PM

Guest, are you deliberately following Tunesmith's postings so that you can rubbish them. If you don't get the point of these types of discussions then I suggest, politely and courteously, that you find discussions that do interest you.

Again, Tunesmith, I get what you are saying and I think that this is a worthwhile discussion point.

I saw a really interesting tv programme about Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, and this point was discussed in that show. One of the issues discussed, which is not quite on topic but related I think, was the use of a piece of his music in a Hollywood film scene of a rape. The piece of music is deeply religious and NFAK was appalled at the misuse of the music in such a context. To the western ear it was a beautiful piece of music, but to the person whose culture it comes from it has a deeper meaning based on the words as well as the music, and based on musical styles associated with religious or secular music.

Helen

Subject: RE: You don't hear what I hear!
From: Amos
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 10:25 PM

Gee, Helen -- that's like using "Onward Christian Soldiers" as background music to a mugging!! I thought they only did that in the White House!

A

Subject: RE: You don't hear what I hear!
From: DonMeixner
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 10:39 PM

Hi Tunes,

Actually my taste has changed very little. I appreciate the same as before plus more. My recent discoveries have challenged or changed my old favorites.   Just added more books to the shelf so to speak.

But I do agree I may not hear the same nuances in a tune that you do.
I have heard Foster and Allen do Mountains of Mourne as nice old Irish tune by Percy French. It is nicely done and it passes 4 1/2 minutes fairly well. But I have heard Gordon Bok do it as a Tragic- Comic set piece that shows the heart break and loneliness of an out of place rustic soul thrust into the modern world. I can't say that anyone else would hear it that way, but I do. ( Gordon told me sometime later that that is what he hoped to express in his version of the song.)

Don

Subject: RE: You don't hear what I hear!
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 28 Jun 03 - 09:04 AM

Hopefully, as we grow older our musical abilities/sensitivities - players and non-players - will develop and deepen. I'm amazed sometimes, listening to recordings from back in my youth, to suddenly realize, for example, that the lead guitarist on a particular track, that thrilled be in my youth, has no idea what his is doing, and is simply throwing together a string of unconnected licks in the hope that something worthwhile will emerge. Likewise, certain music that puzzled me in my youth, now sounds very logical and accessible. And, of course, there are people out there who are still puzzled by music that now makes perfect sense to me.

Subject: RE: You don't hear what I hear!
From: Frankham
Date: 28 Jun 03 - 11:10 AM

There is a point in this. When Charlie Parker first began to play music, not many of his contemporaries understood what he heard. Bach was never the popular composer of his age. It was Tellemann.

What we hear in our heads is not always translatable to our voices and fingers. What we hear is influenced by our conditioning. Our prejudices have as much to do with our judgement about music as our education.

We tend to read all kinds of non-musical things into music. We form images of how people look when we don't see them. Notice that it's easier to accept music that is congruent with the way they look as they play it. Bluegrass music in a tuxedo? Opera in blue jeans?

The statement though assumes that no two people hear music the same way. This depends upon what we're talking about. When an audience hears a performer, they share a commonality that emanates from that performer. That's why we have audiences.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: You don't hear what I hear!
From: Jeep man
Date: 28 Jun 03 - 03:22 PM

Tune, I know exactly what you mean. I was raised on Mountain Music and
here in the Blue Ridge. Some of the references in this old music is meaningless to others. Jeep