Green Linnett Screws Artists 2003

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 04 Oct 03 - 10:45 AM

The same has been happening as long as commercially exploited folk and trad. music has existed, I suppose. People who run a record label have to have an acute business sense, and sometimes it's too astute for their own (and their artists') good. Heard the same about Transatlantic years ago from a victim, a close friend.
I once asked a musician why so many artists (his own band included) were joining Greentrax' books. Five words: "Because Ian Green is honest!"
I hope the 'Five' will get what is due to them (and blaze a trail for others in the process) without Green Linnet going down.

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: Tyke
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 02:25 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: pavane
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 03:41 PM

Is there something about Celtic Music (the genre, not the company)? The same thing seems to be happening in both the US and the UK, independently I presume.

(See the Celtic music/Dave Bulmer thread)

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 12:14 PM

I may be out of date but the last firm I heard of Sid in was Solomon and Finger - New York. He won't remember me but he might remember my former boss Claude Fielding.

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: Brían
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 11:08 AM

I just had the information in this last posting emailed to me. I'll just put it back to the top. thanks, Dale.

Brían

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 06:12 PM

Many serious auditors (eg the legendary Sid Finger) will audit on a contngency.

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 06:26 AM

FYI.... Forwarded withou Dale's Express with with implied permission.

I've been on Dale's list for years, unless someone is spoofing him, I'd believe it...

You can get onto his list at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiffandfipple
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A Special Announcement from Chiff & Fipple

Dear Chiff & Fipple Readers,

Many of you know Joanie Madden and most of you have heard her music and you know what she has contributed to Irish music in America not to mention our beloved whistles. Joanie writes with the following information. Some of you will already be aware of some of the background to this story:

___________________________

Dear Dale,

Hope all is well with you Whistle King!!! I'm just packing here in New York for a trip to Ireland tonight and wanted to drop you a line before I went.

I'm hoping you can help me in getting the word out in sending this message out to the Chiff and Fipple email list regarding the Green Linnet 5 (Cherish the Ladies, Altan, Eileen Ivers, myself and Mick Moloney) planned protest and mini-concert for Monday, Columbus day, October 13th at Green Linnet records in Bethel, CT (by Danbury) at 4:30. We're hoping for a great turnout and I'd love all of my fellow whistlers to come out and show their support for our cause.

As you are aware, Green Linnet has neglected to report all sales since 1999. Our lawyer estimates that approximately $450,000 is owed to us as a group. They have refused to pay us what they owe and have refused to account to us over the past four years. Their delays and actions have cost us many thousands of dollars so far and now we have been pushed to run a full fledge audit to try and get what is owed to us - an extremely expensive venture. At the present time, Green Linnet has refused us any access to the books.

I'm forwarding on this email to our Publicist Anita Daly, who'll send you a press release and directions to the event. Thanks for the help Dale! Hope to talk to you soon!

Joanie Madden
www.cherishtheladies.com

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE                                                        

September 22, 2003        
        
DALY COMMUNICATIONS
333 WEST 39TH STREET
SUITE 603
NEW YORK, NY 10018

212-465-2444 // [e-mail]

IRISH MUSICIANS TO PROTEST AT OFFICES OF GREEN LINNET MUSIC
IN DANBURY, CONNECTICUT OCTOBER 13, 2003

Claim years of non-payment of royalties and inappropriately applied deductions

WHEN:        OCTOBER 13, 2003

WHERE:         81 BEAVER BROOK ROAD, DANBURY CONNECTICUT
TIME:        5:00 P.M

Major Irish and Irish American recording artists have combined to take legal action against Green Linnet Music in a law suit unprecedented in the history of Irish music. They plan to lead a musical protest at the company's offices in hopes of galvanizing this grass roots cause. There will be renditions of old labor movement tunes and appearances by guest artists joining them in the protest -- the likes of which has not been seen since the mid 1960's. They ask that fellow musicians, their fans and others who believe in their cause come out to support them.

The famed Irish groups Altan and Cherish the Ladies, nine time All-Ireland fiddle champion and musical star of Riverdance, Eileen Ivers, National Heritage Award winner Mick Moloney and All Ireland Champion multi-instrumentalist Joanie Madden have come together because they share a common outrage at the way they have been treated by one of the major recording companies in world music.

Green Linnet Records has been a leading force in recording and distributing Celtic music for over 25 years. The company has over 300 masters licensed and features a star Irish music roster. Owner Wendy Newton has been quoted to say, "We certainly have the best profile of any Celtic label, because we not only release the records, we actively sell and promote them."   

"It would probably shock most Irish music fans to know that the artists who recorded their favorite Green Linnet albums have not been paid," said famed fiddle player Eileen Ivers. The law suit recently filed by the artists (who irreverently refer to themselves as "The Green Linnet Five") highlights the fact that Green Linnet has consistently failed and refused to provide timely accountings or royalty statements to their artists; that the company underpays and fails to report income regarding the commercial exploitation of the artist's master recordings; that they improperly reduced the rate of royalties due and inappropriately applied deductions without a contractual basis to do so and to everyone's amazement has the unfettered gall to continue to commercially exploit master recordings for years after the licensing agreements for these albums expired. Additionally the company fails to list income and pay royalties on a number of compilation albums that contain recordings from the artists. World-class musician Joanie Madden pointed out that "we tried to negotiate with them for a year. Ultimately we realized that they had no intention of bargaining in good faith or paying us."

According to their attorney, Bob Donnelly, "'The Green Linnet Five' are simply demanding that Green Linnet's numerous and continued breaches of contract warrant full payment of royalties owed, a return of their master recordings and an immediate cessation of exploiting the artists' work."

The protest will hopefully aid in bringing to light the cause of the Green Linnet 5 and a lead to a fair and just result.

If you love Irish music and want to support these artists PLEASE JOIN US!

Directions: Take I-684 North towards Brewster. Merge onto I-84 East - exit 9E towards Danbury. Take Exit 8 US-6 E / Newtown Road Exit. Turn Right onto Newtown Road go down 3/4's of a mile (you'll pass Holiday Inn, Taco Bell and McDonalds). Make a right at light onto Old Newtown Road. Go 3/10ths of a mile and the road comes to a Y. Bear Right before the stop sign onto Beaver Brook Road. After 2/10th's of a mile you'll see West End Power Equipment on your left. Go slow and turn left into next driveway. You'll see a big red Brick Building with Pilgrim Electronics written on the side - address is 60 Beaver Brook Road. Park in rear of the building.

_______________________

It's me, Dale, writing again.

I don't, of course, have any first-hand knowledge about the facts of this case, news of which has been brewing and building for some time now. I know Joanie and some of the other musicians involved and so my sympathies tend to lie with them. If you can, I'd encourage you to go to this event. If nothing else, looks like it'll be a great show!

Best to all of you,

Dale Wisely

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 06:48 AM

I'd love to come and visit you and Liz, Bertha, but my Linda is also an Essex Girl (after that's her Mudcat name) and not only would I (and you two) be in grave personal danger if I tried it, but also I know my limitations and I think that one Essex at a time is enough. I don't know how "Dirty Old Git" can manage two of you. Perhaps you should try getting in touch with McGrath of Harlow - after all he doesn't live very far away from Chingford.

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: GUEST,Big Bertha
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 10:26 AM

'Course we're real, well most of us anyway. We've both got dentures, and Liz wears a falsie on one side ever since that nasty accident when she was "exercising" this big alsation dog wot started nibbling 'er boob and got carried away. I 'ad a bit of me whotsit removed when they gave me this hysterical thingummy, but I've still got the important bit and it works fine. Mindyer, Doris the Dyke has a strap-on bit which aint real, but it's not as good as a proper bloke's one. Why not come over to Chingford and be our guest. It's probly best if yer tells Matron that you're a priest or sumfink coz she's gone all religers ever since that nice young vicar started coming round. She had a private prayer session wiv 'im the other day and she must 'ave got the religern real strong coz the whole home could 'ere 'er shoutin out "halleluja!" and "Oh god I'm coming" - she's still ere though.

Come on over darling and check out our credentials.

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 09:19 AM

Are you two for real?

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: GUEST,Big Bertha and Loose Liz
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 09:41 AM

We eard bout this website through a mate of ours in the Old Folks Home - Dirty Old Git.
'E told us that we could find the words of dirty songs 'ere, but we 'aven't found any gooduns yet. Then we saw this 'ere thing about getting screwed. Do you reckon that this Green Linnett guy would come over ter Essex and give the two of us a good sortin' out ? I suppose you could call us artists - we both draw things on the lavatory wall. I mean we both enjoy a good session with Dirty Old Git, but e's getting a bit passed it. 'E can usually manage to do both of us in one session, but then he can't manage it again for another hour or so. After all we're both Essex Girls and we need a bit more often than that.

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From:
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 10:23 AM

Someone on this thread asked to hear from Lisa Null about the Green Linnet Affair so I'm posting what I sent yesterday to publore. I'm not sure I can shed much light on the specifics of this current complaint, but I can provide some background context. Maybe it will help:

As an original cofounder of Green Linnet with Pat Sky, back in 1971, it
is with some anxiety that I have been following the recent discussion
about that company. I subsidized Green Linnet as long as I could and
eventually passed it on gratis to our employee, Wendy Newton, with the
hope that she would continue developing it into a financially and
ethically sounddpurveyer of traditional and roots-based music. Wendy
loved the emerging Celtic hybrid sound which seemed to have more
commercial potential than the minimally accompanied vocal materials and
simply-recorded tunes which had originally impelled Pat Sky and myself
into the record business. We took pride in our original roster of
musicians, which included Seamus Ennis, Peter Bellamy, Joe Heaney, Paddy
Tunney, Rosalie Sorrels, and Debby McClatchy with the Red Clay Ramblers.
Still, it was post-Bothy Band jigs and reels which quickened Wendy's
heart.

I developed confidence in Wendy early on-- she handled my personal
bills, bank account, and household while I toured as a singer. The
emerging portrait of Wendy as an avaricious and exploitive manipulator
of musical talent has made little sense to me in light of this earlier
experience. I have suggested to Wendy that she respond to such charges,
but she hesitates to do so. She feels such negative stereotypes are
emerging from legal issues best worked out through mediation or in a
court of law rather than in the court of public opinion.

We do not talk about business much because our roles resemble that of
natural versus adoptive parent. I do know, however, that much of Green
Linnet's staff has remained with the company over the years and that,
without yielding durable profits, the company has been able to provide
medical insurance and a living wage to a small, stable work force. Wendy
acknowledges that she owes some musicians back royalties but tells me
she is paying them off. She believes that her books and contracts are in
order and open to inspection.

Whatever the sense of wrong the plaintiffs (reduced from 5 to 3) feel
and whatever specifics gave rise to this press release, the story is
surely more complex, not easily abstracted into a cause celebre on
behalf of put-upon folk primitives. That tale has been told again and
again, and folklorists have not always been militant enough in
protecting those victimized by the system. The essence of the Green
Linnet story, though, is likely to lie in the struggles between
musicians and a small business all trying to rise up out of a backporch
economy and to gain for themselves a semblence of economic legitimacy.

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: Nerd
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 01:27 AM

For anyone who still cares:

Jody Kolodzey, in addition to her work as a journalist, is a graduate student at the University of Pennsylvania. Soon after hearing about the Green Linnet 5 "press release," she verified with the courts that the lawsuit was indeed filed. However, to my knowledge she did not independently verify anything else in the release before distributing it.

Sorefingers, have you gone raving bonkers?

Pat, I'm glad to hear the Dubs got some money for all those millions of knockoff compilations out there; jeez it's still probably only a pound per unauathorized issue! One of those compilations even plagiarized an article I wrote for the sleeve notes, but I can't really afford to sue...

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: Marc
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 02:57 PM

I don't feel I can mention his name here. But I've a friend who has had the same exact problems with Shanacie, to the tune of 85-90 grand. For a solo folk artist, that kind of money, or not,can dramaticaly change ones life.

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: michaelr
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 02:28 PM

The latest chapter of the Lunasa vs Green Linnet saga is here on tradmusic.com. Apparently a settlement has been reached without resorting to legal action.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 10:53 AM

We all go right to the AFL/CIO and their PR writers for the Truth, d'ont we?

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: Maryrrf
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 10:30 AM

There's quite a bit of information about the Lunasa dispute with Green Linnet on this website http://www.tradmusic.com . This is a great website anyway for keeping up with trad music news and well worth a look every now and then.

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 08:56 AM

As I said previously, I don't think any of us doubt the artists allegations. I still would love to hear Green Linnets side of the story. I guess we will hear it in court.

Again, we are all making very educated guesses as to what kind of money is generated. I will say it again, the "traditional" music field has been undocumented for way too long. The major trade publications and groups ignore figures for this genre.   It is very rare that you see financial figures for festivals where you would see them listed in Billboard. The mom & pop independent nature of this genre has allowed it to operate in a vacuum, so it is not surprising that cases like Green Linnet and David Bulmer are popping up.   Perhaps groups like the Folk Alliance might be able to shed some light and lend assistance.

Ron

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: Maryrrf
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 08:12 AM

I don't think $1.5 - $2.5 million is unrealistic for Green Linnet. They are one of the premier "Celtic Labels" and have worldwide distribution. They do a good job of marketing, they've released tons of these "budget collections" and I think they've probably sold a large number of CD's.

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: johnross
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 10:31 PM

If we take the artist's estimates of monies owed to them at face value, it sounds like GL probably owes all their unpaid artists at least $300,000 -- probably a lot more.

Typical royalties are what? 10% - 20% of sales? So it sounds like the label's gross sales over the period in question is at least in the $1.5 - 2.5 million range.

Those are significant numbers.

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: Maryrrf
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 10:23 PM

I've heard enough from more than one source (and not just on mudcat) to believe that something is not right with Green Linnet. I really do think that things like this SHOULD be brought up and discussed in this forum, just as the Dave Bulmer/Celtic Music story was. It might keep more people from being taken advantage of, and at the very least encourage artists thinking of signing with a record company to be very careful about who they are signing with and what they are signing away.

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 05:08 PM

This isn't proof of anything...strictly undocumented info, but I just had a long visit with one of the artists who's owed money by Green Linnett and he MORE than confirms the information in the first posting...TO MY SATISFACTION.

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 08:41 PM

I wonder what Lisa Null would have to say about what Green Linnet has become.

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: Pat Cooksey
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 11:00 AM

In March this year the Dubliners received a settlement of more than one million pounds for unauthorized re- issues of some of their back catalogue, I think this gives some idea of the kind of money these c.d.'s generate.

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 09:57 AM

As long as Green Linnet refuses to respond, they will benefit from people saying that we can't condemn them because we haven't heard their side of the story. Based on the Kennedys story, it's already bought them years of time.

Not a new strategy. The big tobacco companies bought themselves forty years by refusing to acknowledge that smoking was harmful. Harmful? It's lethal.

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 09:46 AM

Ron,

The reason that you haven't heard Green Linnet's "side of the story" is that Green Linnet, for whatever reasons, has decided not to respond publicly.

Green Linnet's non-response is not new and did not start with this lawsuit. As a folk music presenter, I know quite a few artists who have made albums for Green Linnet, some of them are personal friends and I have heard their stories, over a period going back to the early 1990's, of Green Linnet's non-payment of royalties. Many of these artists have tried, personally and through managers, lawyers, etc. to get a response from Green Linnet. Green Linnet has not responded.

I made the second post in this thread: "It's not just its Celtic acts that have been screwed over by Green Linnet. Speak to the Klezmatics, Pete & Maura Kennedy, James Keelaghan, Rosalie Sorrels, etc. and you'll hear the same kind of stories."

The artists whose names I've mentioned have all directly told me of how they've been screwed by Green Linnet. Indirectly, I've heard similar stories about many other Green Linnet artists.

Pete and Maura Kennedy have been public about their troubles with Green Linnet for years. The following is from their 1997 entry in The Kennedy Kronikles:

"In January, Mike Connelly from Cherry Lane calls to let the duo know about, hopefully, a simple clerical error. Green Linnet is several months behind payment on the main royalty check for "Life is Large"--an amount totaling over fifteen thousand dollars. This is a huge sum of money to the Kennedys, who are still pulling themselves up from the pass-the-hat level. This money represents all the songwriting income from "Life", and it would be the only income Pete and Maura would have to live on once the tour ended. Exhausted from traveling, they contact the label to confirm that this is a simple error--someone forgot to send out the check. After several weeks of evading calls, label owner Wendy Newton finally talks to the Kennedys lawyer, and confirms everyone's worst fears--the label has no intention of paying. "I've got to look out for number one", is Newton's only explanation. Phone calls to other Green Linnet artists reveal that this is happening to several songwriters at the label, and an exodus ensues--most of the top selling acts will cancel their now-invalid contracts during the year, with the label losing literally millions in future record sales income. Maybe people do stuff like this because of uncontrollable greed, and an easy target--musicians who have struggled for so many years that they may be willing to get ripped off just to have their music heard. Sounds like the 1950's, but it still happens today."

The Kennedy Kronikles are linked here.

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 10:35 PM

Pat - you are correct. I've already said that the sentence I wrote was misleading and not what I was intending to say. I should proofread before I hit the submit button.

My point is that there is no organization that is compiling numbers that I am aware of. Country, jazz, rap and others all have such information available. In my previous statement, I was referring to the traditional music industry as whole. Aside from the "major" independents, there is a Mom & Pop attitude about traditional music. The music is often presented (here in the U.S.) in clubs and coffehouses that are run by small organizations that are often non-profit in status. House concerts are widespread. Many successful artists play between 100 to 200 dates a year in clubs like these. The majority of their CD sales come from these concerts. These musicians are making a living and covering expenses, but this is not huge money. How accurate is the book keeping in these venues?   When an artist issues their own CD, who is keeping score?

Of course groups like Altan are in a different catagory. But again, how big are groups like this? It is easy to say it is a "worldwide massive industry", but are there figures that show this? I'm not saying it isn't true, it is just that traditional music generally is an unchecked industry.

Yes, Celtic music appears to be a huge industry worldwide. Unfortunately everything from Ireland seems to be labeled "Irish" - Enya, Van Morrison, The Chieftains, and every one else. Look at the best seller lists that appear in Irish Music magazine. Very odd selections in some cities. Very arbitrary.

Again, I want to clarify. If artists are owed money by Green Linnet or any other record label, then they should receive it. I don't doubt the allegations that the Green Linnet 5 are making, I just haven't heard the reaction from Green Linnet. I caution people to let both sides of the story be heard. It is very easy to side with the artists, but I would like to hear Green Linnets side of the story and have their books opened to the artists.

Ron

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: Pat Cooksey
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 10:12 PM

Green Linnet distribute worldwide, to say we are not talking about
huge amounts is ill informed nonsense, as much as it hurts follower
of other folk music generes, Irish, i.e. Celtic Music, is worldwide
a massive industry and generates millions, the artists who recorded
for this company, and many other companies are entitled to their
share of this this.

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 07:02 PM

Ron,

I wasn't really aiming at you specifically. I just wasn't entirely happy with what I perceived as the drift of the whole thread.

I hope I didn't sound too snotty. (I was aiming to sound somewhat snotty but not too snotty).

To be up front. I don't own many Green Linnet recordings because I'm not really much into the music they present. But I do own a few and I care about the musicians on those recordings. I really bothers me to think about the possibility that they've been/are being royally screwed.

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 03:49 PM

I really hope this works out for the best for all concerned. It has reminded me that I used to go to this page all of the time to listen to their latest CD's. I've always appreciated the chance to "preview" them, but wondered how many might get pirated, thus losing the artists and GL revenues. (Not sure of the quality nor if its possible from Real Audio as I only have the free version.)

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 03:21 PM

I've bought a lot of albums through Green Linnet over the years and really hope this isn't true, but I also wonder that it might be. I do hope they will do the honorable thing if they owe money to the artists and pay up. It's a situation that bears watching with an unbiased eye. What did you say Eileen Ivers label was? Kindest regards, Neil

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: michaelr
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 03:17 PM

Sorefingers, what the hell are you on about?

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 11:33 AM

Russ, I hope you don't think I was implying that this lawsuit is unjustified.   My last sentence was probably misleading. I was just trying to say that there are no numbers on this industry (that I am aware of) so it becomes hard to grasp the magnitude of this issue.

I agree that we need to let the courts decide.   I just wanted to point out that the issue is not cut and dry as some people have made it out to be.

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 11:16 AM

This isn't about ethics and morality and personalities and pedigrees; it's about contracts and law.

No matter what the pedigree or personality traits (or lack thereof) of the plaintiffs, they have a right to whatever compensation is specified in whatever contracts they signed.

Ditto no matter how small (or big) Green Linnet is and no matter how nice (or nasty) the people who run the company are.

This is also the 3rd millennium and the rules seem to have changed. Trying to get a case tried in the press has become pretty standard at least in the States. It's just a move in a legal chess game. One reason being that "properly allowing the justice system to decide who, if anyone, is at fault" might, at best, eventually benefit their grandchildren.

I am personally taking a wait and see attitude, but the people I have talked to personally suggest that such a lawsuit, if it exists, might have some justification.

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 10:51 AM

Let me clarify one thing - I do not know if the "press release" was AUTHORED by the lawyer, my information is that the information contained in that "release" was supplied from the lawyer.   I have not seen the original release but I was able to confirm the source.

I do agree with Kathy, there seems to be a push to turn this into a cause. Someone on the FOLK-DJ list made a subtle suggestion that a boycott of Green Linnet take place.   I am totally against that for a number of reasons. First of all, the artists get paid for airplay from BMI & ASCAP.   Boycotting music and freedom of expression rubs me the wrong way.   It would also hurt artists who are perfectly happy with their situation.   It would also hurt a business that has nutured an industry in Celtic music and I would hate to see their catalog disappear.

I have no clue as to how many CD's have been sold. Traditional music is an industry but unlike the major labels I have not seen figures on how much money is generated from the various independents, artist self-releases, clubs & coffeehouses, festivals etc.   The Mom & Pop nature of this "industry" makes it nearly impossible to get a handle. We aren't talking huge numbers.

Ron

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: KathWestra
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 10:34 AM

Thank you, Ron! There are indeed two sides to every story. I do not know either of them, and neither does anyone who has posted to this thread so far. Just because you read it on the Internet does not make it true. I agree with Joe Offer that having this posted anonymously makes this thread's existence even more egregious.

What I DO know is that the "press release" has been widely circulated on folk-music-related Internet lists, without a date, contact person, or contact phone number. I am the public relations director of a major national association. Rule 1 of PR: every press release should have date, contact person, and contact phone number so that interested parties can verify its content. The fact that these are missing raises immediate red flags. Ron's information that the release was circulated by the plaintiffs' lawyer makes me VERY suspicious that someone is trying to make this into a cause celebre, rather than properly allowing the justice system to decide who, if anyone, is at fault.

Matters currently in litigation are things that the immediately involved parties will probably not be discussing--and properly should not.

And I agree with Kendall. Statements made by any of us on this thread, if they turn out not to be true, could be considered libel. This is dangerous territory. Nuff said, I hope.    Kathy

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 10:26 AM

For what it is worth, I asked a friend who is a DJ for a local Celtic music radio program about this. She confirms the reality of the lawsuit but knows nothing about the validity of the claims made in the suit.

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 10:19 AM

The details of this story are still a bit murky, but I will tell you the facts that I know. I have a few sources that are close to this issue and here is what I can confirm.

The "press release" was brought about by Bob Donnelly, the lawyer for the "Green Linnet 5".   Apparently the suit was filed a few months ago, but the story came out last week on the heals of another story that was published about Green Linnet.

The group Lunasa has been having a disagreement with Green Linnet about their just released CD "Redwood".   Lunsasa claims that GL is using a master with sonic imperfections which they say sounds as if it were processed through a computer. The band claims they sent a new master to GL but the label has not used it to press the CD's. The band is also upset about the artwork on the cover claiming they did not submit it. GL admits this but they also say that they are under no obligation to use artist supplied artwork in this case. Lunasa admits this as well, but they say GL has used their supplied artwork for previous CD's.   Lunasa has asked GL to rectify the situation or they will file suit.

With that story in the press, the Green Linnet 5 decided to go public with their story, and in my opinion, they are hoping the publicity generated by the Lunasa story will help their cause and force GL to open up their books.

Green Linnet, as far as I know, has not responded publicly to this new story.   My guess is that under the advice of their lawyers they won't.

I caution people to understand that there are two sides to every story and while their appears to be a history of "issues" with Green Linnet, not every artist has had these complaints.   We should be prudent.

I must say that Wendy Newton has been a guest on my radio show and she and the crew at Green Linnet have always been helpful to me. Wendy has set some very high standards for the music issued on Green Linnet and I respect her tastes. I also have had some of the Green Linnet 5 and Lunasa on my show and I think the world of them.   Eileen and Joannie were involved with benefits for my radio station many years ago and I have the greatest respect for them.   

My only hope is that the artists get what they are truly owed and that Green Linnet can survive and continue to release wonderful recordings. I hope that this can be resolved to everyones satisfaction either in a court of law or in some sort of compromise.

Ron Olesko

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 08:01 AM

This isn't new. I remember internet discussion from back around 1997 when the Scots band Wolfstone broke up. It appeared, on the surface, that the band broke up just to get out of their contract with Green Linnet. I remember there was more disussion about royalties at that time, GL saying something like "We'll pay royalties when we can afford to." Now, this is all fuzzy memory and I don't have the energy to search the archives of rec.music.celtic to find evidence, but it's there. I'd assumed it had all been worked out...silly me.

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: Noreen
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 07:07 AM

So why is it not attributed to them, by name?

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 06:56 AM

The press release that begins this thread was issued by the lawyers representing the artists who are suing Green Linnet.

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 06:35 AM

I posted a link to the original press release on the Evil corporate music industry thread.

I met Mairéad Ní Mhaonaigh of Altan a couple of years ago in the company of an upcoming Irish Trad band. She advised them against signing to Green Linnet because of problems in getting them to pay up royalties which were due.

Clearly enough people are now owed enough money to make it worth their while going to law. Sad to see it happening with a label which seemed to be so good for trad music in the days when there were hardly any commercial recording opportunities for that sort of music.

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: kendall
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 06:16 AM

If it is not true, it is libel. More serious than slander.

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 12:30 AM

Who is Jody Kolodzey? Some bare bones from the Internet.

Kolodzey is pres. of the National Writers Union (AFL-CIO) local in Philadelphia. One of his websites is through the University of Pennsylvania, but what his relationship to that institution is, I don't know. There are approx. 6400 members of the Union nationally.

A recent article of his in "Sing Out" (Summer '03) was about Sharon Katz. In "In These Times," he wrote on "Remembering Nina Simone."
He is associated with black music and folk song groups and the Green Party.

Are the charges true? Couldn't find any information, but if suits are in the mill, not much would be expected. Many excellent artists have recorded with this label.

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: DonMeixner
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 12:02 AM

Huh?

Don

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 11:37 PM

First if ever there was a posting to Mudcat that should have been summarily moved or deleted by the Posting Police - who ever the blue bazes they be - then this is it.

Second the aforementioned offended individuals number among their ranks scarsely 25% actual Irish people and for what it is worth I think they got what all thieving greed little skitters deserve, to be well and truely screwed - by a bunch of expat Corkmen Green Bonnet ..good on ye bhouys!

Third and most important of all, the Internet should take care of any slack here sucking the heart out them- looks like it already did - he heh- by MP3freesharing these pretenders to death...

In short when next they, and their not so different thieving cousins in folk/country, steal from the likes of meself they can reflect on the FACT that today it is no longer profitable to steal copywright and publish other folks stuff!

IOW Screw em!... if ya can

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 11:23 PM

This was a posting to the Yahoo "Sing Out" group by a journalist named Jody Kolodzey. I thought that it was relevant and provocative enough to distribute it on the Mudcat. Is it factual? Sounds like it. Will someone from Green Linnet comment on it? Probably not. Should we continue to buy product from a company that rips off talented musicians? You decide for yourself.

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: Alba
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 10:34 PM

Would really help to know the Source of this Post!
It is after all mentioning Musicians by name and I am always uncomfortable when things are said that cannot be checked for accuracy.
Any information on where this "Immediate Release" came from Guest?
A

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: Maryrrf
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 10:33 PM

I don't have any firsthand experience but this isn't the first time I've heard pretty bad things about Green Linnet. I'd be interested in learning more.

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: michaelr
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 10:33 PM

Guest, please tell us where you found this information. While this is a potentially serious and troubling issue, anonymous and uncredited postings tend to run into credibility problems here.

Cheers,
Michael