BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 12:14 PM

Walkerton ... I've got water on the brain. (No, not literlally)

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 12:12 PM

Quite right Sooz. I was involved with 'that' study (or a similar one, Canada) and what we did was analyse the water from bottles kids had with them at school. They had bits of things in them that might well have caused health problems -- anything from yesterday's breadcrumbs to this morning's boogers -- so the warning has to be, as ever, err on the side of best practices. If you want to sterilize plastic bottles give them a good rinse in hot water then add a couple of drops of iodine in half a lite pf tap water, slosh it around, discard, rinse and fill. You'll be just fne. Unless you live in Waterton ;o)

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Sooz
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 11:50 AM

The official advice from the Food Standards Agency is that, provided they are well washed and undamaged, it is safe to re-use those PET bottles designed for single use. Its a good job really, as thats what we have been doing!
Not sure if there is any similar advice about underwear, Liz. (I find thatblack keeps its colour best though)

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 11:40 AM

Now look Liz,

You're not just trying to set me off on another 'panty raid' are you?

It's ok this time - I've taken the tablet for today....

:-)

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 11:16 AM

I argee that new isn't always improved. I have some pairs of knickers that I bought at least 10 years ago and are still intact, if a little lacking in brightness of colour.

I bought some new ones 6 months ago. Guess which ones are in the washing and which ones are in the rubbish bin.....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 09:48 AM

"New" is not always improved - yesterday I replaced my 26 year old fridge & assume that the new one won't last so long.

sandra (still using the water bottle referred to in my last post of June 2003)

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Mr Happy
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 07:08 AM

At close of Chester Folk Festival this year, my hand maiden & manservant were packing up all Mr Happy's camping stuff.

Handmaiden found that the one gallon plastic springwater container he'd used for many's the long year had a ring of green mildew a quarter the way up it's interior & strongly suggested it be chucked.

Mr Happy acquiesced & is now seeking replacement.

BTW our large water bottle made of thick polythene (ex-GPO) is still in perfect order despite being over 20 years old.

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Sooz
Date: 11 Sep 03 - 01:03 PM

Yes it is true. Many fleece fabrics are made from PET bottles.

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 11 Sep 03 - 06:58 AM

I've heard that polar fleece is made from re-cycled clear plastic lemonade bottles. Is this so?

Sal

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Gurney
Date: 11 Sep 03 - 06:43 AM

just a thought or two...

It only takes one greebly in a bottle to propagate. It takes one night to reach an unacceptable standard in a NZ summer.
There are phthalates in sunblock too. Where do you want your cancer?
Jeri's plan to make slug-traps works for flies, too. Different bait.

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 08:11 AM

The local college where I swim daily has just done me an enormous personal favor. The pool is located in the PE building. In this building, there are 3 floors of classrooms, all the gyms, training rooms, sports locker rooms for home team and visitors.... not to mention all the basketball and volleyball games, and a monthly community kids' event.... At every exit and also right outseide the pool-department entrance, they have added big, deep recycling bins, with one specifically for used water bottles. Of course I will sanitize them before putting them in the rotation. With a few trips up to the excellent mountain-side spring to fill up the 5-gallon containers we have, I should be able to easily and conveniently bottle a long country winter's worth of water before snow arrives, and stow it down cellar to keep nice and cold and clean. Bwahahahahahhhh!!!!!

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Mooh
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 07:41 AM

My folks refilled the same water bottles for over 20 years at the family cottage without trouble. Some of them started life as undiluted fruit juice containers or vinegar bottles, all of them one gallon or 4 litre in volume. Originally we filled them from a few hundred yards out into Georgian Bay (Great Lakes, Ontario Canada) and tested the water with some kit which the province would provide. Later (and still) we fill them from an artesian well a few miles away. The bottles look pretty funky these days, and some have been replaced with more modern (and less sturdy) ones from various sources. None of these were washed near as often as they should have been until this year when my wife insisted on regular (ie annual?) cleansing. Our well water has so much iron in it that it's almost weldable.

As for the little personal sized ones, we use and re-use the same ones for days on end while camping with no more than rinsing. I have an evil addiction to Diet Coke so I generally re-use those bottles until I loose, crush, or loose faith in the seal. I do the same at work where the tap water is likely no better than camp site water.

While in Prince Edward Island last month we happily re-used the glass bottles everything comes in since plastic doesn't appear to be available. They're heavier, but I like the old time feel and whatever recycling advantages the Island claims.

Since the tap water killed alot of people in Walkerton (about an hour away) bottled water is a major business. I'm gonna give up when we have to use bottled air.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 04:26 AM

that must be why the local county council put tons of salt on the roads during winter then, [so they stay frozen longer]! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 03:53 AM

Found some square cross section plastic (fruit juice) bottles about 1 litre. Round ones don't pack as closely.

Take a cup of salt, add to one litre of water (proportionally) and fill the plastic bottles. To the very top - no air. If you squeeze the sides a little, with experience, you will work out the amount to do.

Place in bottom of Chest type Freezer.

The water will freeze, expanding the bottle slightly perhaps (glass wil shatter!). It will stay cold if the power drops out.

The salt causes the specific heat of the water to be changed so that they will stay frozen longer than plain water.

They work well in Eskys too.

DON'T Try To Drink These! I mark them with a marker pen "SALT"

Plastic softdrink bottles seep gas, losing pressure. But if you like to keep some "flat" lemonade to drink to assist with really bad upset stomachs, if it is 6 so or months old works just fine. (Old Wives Remedy)

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 07:16 PM

Harrruuummmphhhh - whipppersnippers indeed.

During WWII the US Army issued quite a number of plastic canteens (about 1 qt size). Since they were in all the "Army Surplus" stores, quite a lot of Scouts/campers had them from about 1948 on. Neither the plastic nor the "better" aluminum ones were too noisy, since they were all carried in an ill-fitted canvas belt-bag, but the shape was a little inconvenient when you had to carry much other stuff.

Anything you put in one of those yellow plastic canteens came out tasting like you'd carried it around in an old boot - with sweat socks still in place therein.

The style was still in use during the Korean action, although some other (better?) ones had started being issued. Most (surviving) vets learned that any equipment issued needs some judicious taping and tying to get it quiet - it just got a little easier with some of the new-fangled stuff.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 10:25 PM

Harumph! Back during the war...young whippersnappers don't know....

Well, really, back during the Vietnam War the US Army started issuing plastic 1-leter canteens -- they were quieter than the aluminum ones used before, and when a little noise can mean your life, well.... Anyway, I have one from that period. I use it. It works. I don't notice any off flavors to the water unless they were there when I filled it.

The canteens are still issued, along with a two liter model. Out here in high desert country lots of people use two-liter plastic backpack type canteens (Platypus is one such name, Camel another).

I have a suspicion that we're a lot tougher than we give ourselves credit for being. If we weren't the whole damned human race would have died out long ago.

I figure that I'll just keep reusing the plastic bottles until they become so gross I toss 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 02:18 PM

A Newspaper Article today (UK) reports on the state of drinking water in England. There has been a report released by the Drinking Water Inspectorate (official watchdog) saying our drinking water is passing their tests at a high standard. It also says that bottled water is NOT BETTER (not necessarily worse)than what comes out of our taps, but costs about 1,000 times as much.
A Guardian WaterFact sheet - BLICKY.
The newspaper report (whichever paper) mentions that bottled water has a use-by date of 2 years, but could be stood in storage for an indeterminate time before the label is put on, so may be MUCH older.

I reckon if the water in the bottle doesn't absorb anything out of the bottle in two years of residence, putting FRESH water in which stays there less than 24 hours isn't going to shift ANYTHING from the plastic.
QUACK.
Geoff - ex professional water analyst. (good job for a Duck!)

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Burke
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 05:52 PM

I now filter my water & pour it into an empty plastic bottle. For recent heat, I've left space at the top & put them in the freezer for ice water.

Plastic is not as impermeable as glass. Don't plastics outgas in the sun as well? I don't drink a lot of soda & can't stand colas. When I could still get colas in glass 6 packs for company, that soda would still be fine over a year later. Now with only plastic or cans, I find one gets consumed & some time later when I open an old one, it's flat & tastes like the container. I think this is what makes an expration date on water make some sense. Someone else has mentioned that the soda bottles also seem to absorb the taste of the soda.

I don't see a problem with refilling & reusing, but long term use for storage, especially if exposed to the sun, may not be a good idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: GMT
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 11:42 AM

I've used the same plastic bottle at work for over a year and I 'aint dead Ye.... (thud).

Cheers
Gary

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Grab
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 01:35 PM

I think I've found the best guide to this. Buy one bottle, refill it until it smells a little off, then chuck it and get another. No need to sterilise, and it'll last at most a month so no risk from stuff leaching out of the plastic.

I got a bunch of "proper" water-bottles for going walking, but they always go manky and the water smells of plastic. I found that reusing springwater/cola/whatever bottles works a damn sight better and costs you nothing. They're a bit less resilient, but they're still well tough enough that you can drop a rucksack on them and they'll stay intact.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Beccy
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 12:03 PM

Jim Dixon- I don't get the crinkly variety of kids straws unless its the disposable type. Playtex makes a kids cup that has a straw that comes in two parts. Both parts are easily cleaned with a paper towel carefully impaled on a bamboo skewer. I'm a fiend about cleaning these things. Three important things to remember. If it isn't water, clean it IMMEDIATELY after usage. Have one especially for water and one for all other beverages. Last, when the straw starts looking sketchy, replace it!!!!

Beccy

P.S. My husband and I use Platypus bottles that we purchased from Campmor catalogue. They're great! You can get them with a wide mouth so they clean more easily, or with the sport bottle type top for kids (but they chew them up pretty quickly.) They collapse completely when empty and they can be boiled, frozen, dishwasher-ed, etc... Plus they have a lifetime warranty.

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: GUEST,Penny S.
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 11:51 AM

Last spring I drank from was at Malham Cove in Yorkshire. It had a funny metallic taste. Then I went up the valley above, reading the guide about the lead mines. There's more to know about spring water than the bugs in it!

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 09:24 AM

Actually and in the States, anyway, "drinking" water can come from a city water supply but "spring" water must come from a spring or artesian well. Some of the more honest water bottlers will even put the name of the city from which the "drinking water" came on the label.

I must admit that I would like to see some of the springs that are listed; I've run across one water source near the town where I grew up, and I never heard of the spring before then -- and I knew of a LOT of springs around there.

I also remember drinking directly from a spring in a city park, the water so cold that your teeth hurt and so clear that you could see the crawdads swimming around in the pool. I've also drunk from wells and cisterns. I wouldn't do any of it now, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: GUEST,gib-a40
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 01:58 AM

Its so you will buy more water!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Ely
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 11:04 AM

I think the spring water/Alpine water/whatever water craze is pretty weird anyway. As my mom pointed out, "Do you know how many goats pee in the Alps every year?".

Most of it's just tap water, anyway, and I KNOW there's weird stuff in tap water. Houston's has so much chlorine in it it's almost undrinkable, and you can still get giardia from it.

I refill my plastic bottles. I've lived in smoggy cities all my life and figure I'm no more likely to get cancer from bottles than from that.

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Leadfingers
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 07:58 AM

NEVER DRINK WATER--- Look what fish do in it.

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 11:42 PM

Actually, JiK, if I'm hurt and you're going to give me first aid, just try to use something as clean as you can find. Don't be fussy about it, stop the bleeding! Use you bare hands if you must, or a torniquet as a last resort (except for a nosebleed). I'd much rather lose a limb to gangrene than bleed to death, but I'm funny that way.

Sterility cannot be guarenteed. No where, no way. We can only do the best we can.

By the way, all of the water bottles in my 'frig have expiration dates on them.

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 11:06 PM

the different type of plastic and their properties

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Noreen
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 09:24 PM

SRS, thanks for that interesting article.

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 07:22 PM

Warn't just the ink and heat-- it's that the paper has been relatively untouched by human hands and only briefly exposed to airborne crud, going as it does from a tight roll to a folded item.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 07:06 PM

Q -

I don't believe the ink has any notable antiseptic properties, but all more-or-less "modern" printing presses use very high heat to dry the ink rapidly - so that it won't transfer to adjacent sheets as they come out of the press. It's the heat that makes them sterile.

Once the paper is unfolded, it should not be considered to be still "safe" for any usage requiring sterility. You need a new one fresh from the bundle.

A few "Civil Defense" manuals have also suggested the "fresh newspaper" for emergency pressure compresses to stop bleeding - if no suitable bandage materials are available. A fairly thick pad, wrapped and tied around an injured limb may also be a workable splint - and here sterility isn't needed unless it's a compound fracture.

The caution was/is usually added to the note on emergency uses - "avoid using the comic and ad pages," since many of the colored inks often used lead-based pigments. "Modern" inks usually don't contain significant lead (or cobalt &/or cadmium, other culprits), but you have no way of being sure when you grab one "under duress," and the older inks are still in use in some places.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 06:29 PM

Adding to Nigel's post. Medical personnel used to recommend using newspaper to cover the area used for emergency deliveries under unsterile conditions. The ink used in printing newspapers is a pretty good disinfectant.
I think the hyper purity and cleanliness people had more to do with the demise of the newspaper around fish and chips than any genuine safety concerns- of course, sellers of paper products want more sales and encouraged the trend as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 06:01 PM

Nigel P -

I'm aware of the newspaper wrapper thing, but hopefully they used a "fresh" paper. Trying to wash one - to re-use - would be a real trick though.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 04:10 PM

John in Kansas:
A newspaper straight from the press is almost perfectly sterile, due to the high temperatures used to dry the ink; but would you eat off an old one?

Back when I was younger, the standard wrapping for a portion of fish and chips to be eaten on the way home was newspaper (sometimes supplemented by a sheet of greaseproof paper) I don't know whether this was outlawed by British hygenists, or by the European Union, but it never did us any harm.
Last time I was in Holland they still sold 'patats frites' in cardboard cones printed to look like rolled up newspapers.

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 03:35 PM

If you're on a "city" water supply, there is probably enough residual chlorine/bromine or whatever else they put in it to pretty much "stabilize" the crud. Re-using plastic bottles is probably safer if you do use a "treated system" water, rather than a "natural" well or spring water.

To be really safe, I suppose one could do as the ancient Roman army supposedly did, and pack along vinegar instead of water as a defense against typhoid, dysentery, etc; but then they ran into typhus (body lice), malaria (mosquitos), plague (fleas), and cholera (other fleas) in spite of it all. (Incidentally, all of these are still major problems in many parts of the world. "Don't drink the water" isn't an idle platitude, and good sanitation is absolutely necessary everywhere.)

I feel safest drinking the same water my neighbors do. Then if they start to drop, I'm pretty sure I'll hear about it. "Imported" water, coming from an unknown source, doesn't impress me as "safer" just because there's a lot of advertising that says pretty girls all drink it. A problem with the source probably wouldn't be known in my area until there were enough major effects in many remote places to link it to the imported source - and NO water source can be considered "naturally safe" without continual monitoring.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 01:49 PM

Liz showed me a bottle of water today that had a use by date on it!!!

I always reuse my bottles with water from the tap and Im still alive....although I've had a couple of near misses but not from the water!!

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 01:43 PM

I would agree with those who say that there's little danger in (carefully) reusing these water bottles; but there are some reasons why there may be hazards associated with such use.

The temperatures required to mold the original bottles are high enough to completely sterilize them, and if they're kept clean until filled, the original filling should be pretty safe. Some tests (I believe Consumer's Union ran a few) have shown that the bacterial counts in most new bottled water samples are higher than the public water systems allow; but that's another story.

A newspaper straight from the press is almost perfectly sterile, due to the high temperatures used to dry the ink; but would you eat off an old one?

Most of the bottles I've seen can't be run through a dishwasher that's using water at safe "sanitizing" temperature, because the bottles will melt. If your dishwasher isn't getting to at least 140F, you're probably not getting any of your dishes "sanitary clean," but the bottles won't be much worse than the rest of your stuff - so your body is acclimated.

Plastics of the kind used for beverage/water bottles generally are at least slightly absorbent, and highly adsorbent. Contaminants in the original contents can embed themselves into the surface, and can cling tenaciously to the surface. Soap that you might use to wash these plastics tends to cling so tenaciously, due to the surface tension, that it is virtually impossible to rinse it off completely. As demonstrated by the numerous "algae blooms" due to runoff into streams and rivers, most soaps/detergents/surfactants, etc., are very good bacterial and algal nutrients; and if you can't get it off the inside of the bottle, you're feeding any bugs you put in with it.

Even chlorine bleach has a difficult time penetrating the adherent "contaminant" (soap and other "stuff") layer to a depth sufficient to completely "sterilize" (sanitize is a better term) the surface. Additionally, bleach has sufficient chemical activity to affect the bottle material in ways that might permit release of components of the plastic - such as the plasticisers already mentioned.

A fairly recent change in health laws here forced all commerical food services to get rid of their beautiful old wooden "chopping blocks," and replace them with plastic cutting surfaces. The theory was that the plastic boards would be run throught the (industrial strength) dishwasher after each use. This works, but subsequent tests have shown that any other method of cleaning the plastic surfaces generally leaves them with higher bacterial counts than were common on the old wooden blocks.

An industrial dishwasher should have a water temperature above 160F, and in some jurisdictions 170F is required. This will "sanitize" the plastic (but will melt your bottles). It will not necessarily remove the adherent "nutrient" contamination of the surface - but it kills the bugs.

Normal practice with the old blocks was to wipe them down with bleach after each use - and then to apply a vegetable oil (block oil) coating to keep the bleach from making the wood "nasty." Most reasonably fresh vegetable oils have sufficient "bacteriostatic" properties to prevent the rapid growth of crud on the block - at least for a while.

Without the oil, the cleanest surface you can get on the plastic boards by any "normal washing" leaves them as fertile breeding places for anything that happens to be there, especially if there's even a trace of moisture available.

The plastic boards are "safer," but only if you've got a 160-170F dishwasher and use it on them. You can't likely use such temperatures with your water bottles, because they'll turn into deformed lumps.

The plastic bottles are "safe" the first time, because they are "heat sterilized." You can't clean them that way, because they'll melt. There is no other method that reliably "sanitizes" flexible plastics to the same "level of safety" as the original bottles. Whether that level of "cleanness" is necessary, is something you have to decide for yourself. I'd say, in most cases, re-use is acceptable, if you fill with clean stuff, and watch for any signs of deterioration (taste, odor, color, etc.); but then I don't bother the dust bunnies much if they're not big enough to snarl when you pass them.

For general use of plastics for food, one should look at least for a "dishwasher safe" label - which means you can "sanitize them" in a properly heated dishwasher - or by pouring boiling water over them as the last rinse. In the absence of such a label, the only general rule is "the harder the plastic, the easier to clean."

John

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: NicoleC
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 12:52 PM

For long term storage, it has always been susggested that every year or so you dump the water and refill it. Clearly, this is not because of the bottle; it might be to prevent overgrowth of the bugs that exist in small quantities in the water anyway.

I might be concerned about reusing those flimsy plastic bottles they sell in the grocery store, because they could easily develop cracks that might let contaminants in. But not the good quality ones like delivery water comes in -- which are reused anyway! Or the water drums sold for that purpose.

If you live in a place like LA, bottled water isn't a ripoff, it's a necessity. The tap water is disgusting. I long since gave up on tap water and bought a good water filteration system, which can be had for cheap than you think. You can take it with you and buy filter cartridges based on your need -- just look up your local water quality report. I can highly recommend these guys.

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 12:35 PM

John is right--it's a racket. What would make it more dangerous for the 2nd or the 200th drink that it didn't have in the first drink? If you put water in the bottle and heat it a lot, you might shift some chemicals, but no one is suggesting that we do that. Using plastic at all is a risky proposition, considering all of the environmental damage the production (starting with oil extraction) does. Reuse is your best hope to discourage them from making more bottles.

Here is an intersting article, along with the others.

Wash your water bottles and caps in the same dishwater you was your plastic cups, coffee mugs, dishes in general in. Swish it well, let it drain. I don't cap bottles and put them away with droplets of water still in them. Let them dry completely first.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 12:08 PM

I've often wondered about other kinds of plastic bottles that are sometimes sold, empty, especially for kids.

When kids are little, and spill often, you want to have an unbreakable bottle or cup, preferably with a lid and a straw, to minimize spills. The straw that comes with these bottles is crinkly, to facilitate bending. Kids often drink pop or juice out of them.

The cup and lid are easily cleaned, but how are you supposed to clean that straw?

And, I hope I don't make anyone too paranoid, but when you wash dishes, how do you clean between the tines of a fork? Have you ever looked closely at a fork?

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 11:05 AM

True, JudeL, but.

The good Doctor doesn't mention the length of time needed to leach hormonal chemicals from plastic into food. Given that food will be used (hopefully, anyway!) within a fairly short time, I don't think that such a concern is realistic. Should you keep butter (for example) in a plastic container for some weeks or months (again, I don't know the time needed) you might find an increase, but I myself wouldn't want to use the butter anyway. Fat-soluble does not mean that such chemicals will be leached out overnight or even in a couple of days.

It also doesn't mean that they are not eventually excreted from the body. Even a moderately active life can assist in that.

But I think that everyone should do what they think is right for them.

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 10:57 AM

Mr Happy - you drink the water during the day and then re-fill them in your tent during the night? Remind me not to accept a drink of water from you next time we meet!
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Hollowfox
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 10:41 AM

Gareth, how do you mash water?

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: MudGuard
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 10:32 AM

As far as I know, the reason for not using the same bottles for water as for coke is, that the material of the reusable coke bottles gives off a tiny amount of aroma stuff - which might be noticed in pure water, but is indetectable in coke or lemonade...

The material of the one-use water bottle does not give off these aromas, but is not stable enough for reuse (under industrial conditions, where the bottles are moved around by robots...). Of course, if you handle such a bottle carefully, it can last for years.

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 10:04 AM

I carry a 600ml bottle I bought Easter 2000 & using a 1.5litre one at work that is at least as old. Neither has ever been washed! The smaller bottle is no longer as clear as it was, so I might give it a wash in bleach & baking soda (or maybe not). Like other Mudcatters I hate wasting plastic by buying water (& I also resent paying for water!) Water is all I drink (apart from a very occasional fruit juice) so I can't comment on tea or alcohol in re-used plastic bottles. As far as I'm aware the Don't-reuse-plastic-bottles scare hasn't reached Aus.

I grew up in a world that included running about & falling over & playing in paddocks & creeks & getting germs & surviving. I assume that lots of you did the same. Maybe re-used plastic bottles are no good for young folks who have never seen a creek or mud & who live cocooned lives inside & are driven everywhere. Maybe the makers of plastic invented the rumour to sell more plastic - maybe the water sellers invented the rumour to sell more of their product.

sandra

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 08:17 AM

I've just checked the dates on the bottles here. I can't find dates as far into the future as Liz has reported but the bottles are clearly designed to still be usable for longer than 1 year.

I'd suggest that the best plan for those with concerns is maybe replace their bottles every year or two. It shouldn't be a great expense to do this.

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: JudeL
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 06:20 AM

While I'm NOT suggesting that reusing plastic bottles is any more dangerous a practice than using them in the first place there is some reasearch that suggests that some of the things in packaging may be harmful to us. I can't put a link in cos the article is no longer there but here's a bit I found some time ago for a women's group I am involved with:

Turn Your Home Green
(Article taken from the Daily Express, Monday February 24th 2003)

Many cleaning products, packaging and even bedding can have a detrimental effect on your health and the environment. But you can buy green alternatives that are just as efficient and won't harm you or the planet, reports FRANCIS IVE

OUR BODIES are in contact with more manmade chemicals more than ever before. They are in everything from washing powders to hygiene products and spill out from our homes to pollute the environment. They can affect our skin, cause breathing problems and disrupt our hormones. These chemicals can build up in the body and some have been identified as endocrine disrupters that can affect our hormones.

There are now many safer alternatives, which Friends of the Earth (FoE) is keen to promote. Boots, Marks & Spencer, the Co-op, B&Q, IKEA, Early Learning Centre, Homebase, Argos, Debenhams, Body Shop, Mothercare and Sainsbury's have already signed the FoE's Risky Chemicals Pledge. They have agreed to phase out products that contain these chemicals and pressurise manufacturers into doing the same.
Here are some changes we can make to create healthier and greener homes.

YOU ARE WHAT YOU EAT
Dr Marilyn Glenvilie, author and expert in women's health who practises at the Hale Clinic in Central London, says there are 3,900 brands of insecticide, herbicide and fungicide approved for UK use. Some fruit and vegetables are sprayed 10 times before reaching supermarkets. "Eating organic food is one way to avoid these chemicals," she says. Organic food is available in supermarkets. It is also delivered by local box schemes such as SimplyOrganic (www.simplyorganic.net)

REMOVE THE WRAPPER
Most plastic packaging contains harmful chemicals. "Don't store fatty foods such as cheese or meat in plastic wrapping," says Marilyn. "Xenoestrogens, which are synthetic oestrogens in the plastic, are fat-loving and migrate into high-fat foods. They can then interfere with your hormones."
It is also best to avoid microwaving food in plastic containers as this intensifies the effect.

HELP THE ENVIRONMENT
Cleaners, polishes, laundry products and fresh- air sprays often contain toxic chemicals and xenoestrogens that can cause and aggravate breathing problems and irritate skin.

*****************************************************

Again I want to stress that I personally I do not agree with the doom & gloom mongers who claim that it's reusing plastic bottles that's unsafe. My suggestion is that if it was safe to use in the first place, provided it is not damaged and is kept clean there is no reason to believe that it should be viewed as unsafe to reuse. Whether certain types of plastic are "safe" for food use in the first place is another matter.

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Padre
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 09:52 PM

Rapaire, Couldn't agree more - whisky is the "water of life"
Laphroaig was the BP drink of choice.

Padre

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 09:15 PM

I think we have finally found what all Mudcatters have in common!

Damn carriers of water! :~)

~S~

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 08:48 PM

Actually, I think that water is best stored in whiskey, and whiskey is best stored in me!