Tune Req: Unusually time

Subject: Tune Req: Unusually time
From: dulcimer
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 07:27 AM

Not exactly a request for a tune. I was playing with some people in a pub and the fiddler said they were playing jigs in 9/12 time. I've heard of 6/8 and 9/8 and 12/8, but this was a new one. How would that look? I had difficulty backing him up.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Unusually time
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 09:12 AM

I think it was a slip of the tongue, and he meant 9/8.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Unusually time
From: dulcimer
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 06:55 PM

Well I thought he probably did, but I asked and he said 9/12.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Unusually time
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 05:19 AM

You did say "in a pub?" Was it late?

I've seen a few rather "exotic" pieces in "switch-time," usually something like a 5-4, where one phrase of 5 beats alternates with a 4 beat phrase (and a 5-beat is usually played as 3-beats alternating with 2-beats: Brubeck/Desmond's "Take Five" is a good sample)

Perhaps what he meant is the phrase in 9/8 alternated with one 12/8, which could be referred to as 9-12, a shorthand for 9/8 - 12/8, or sometimes noted informally as 9/8//12/8 ??? A little simpler than calling it 21/8 time(?).

The formal notation that might be used - depending on who's your buddies, would likely be 9-12/8, with the two "numerators" both on top, separated by a dash. (And yeah, I know it's not a fraction, before the purists get here.)

So far as I know this is rather rare, but could happen late on a good night.

John

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Unusually time
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 05:30 AM

Basicallly speaking, in conventional musical notation there aint no such animal as 9/12. The numbers after the / have to be 2 or 4 or 8 or 16 etc. you should ask for clarification.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Unusually time
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 08:09 AM

greg and all -

If the reference is to a time signature as is being assumed, it would be pretty difficult. There's no easy symbol for a 12th note.

As indicated, I'd guess that the fiddler was referring to the "meter" or phrasing of the piece, - i.e. to a 3-count phrase (possibly in 9/8 time) alternating with a 4-count phrase (possibly in 12/8) - i.e. measures in alternating 9/8 and 12/8 - not to a "time signature."

In other words, he was referring to the phrasing or pattern of the piece, not to the beat.

Not everyone "thinks" in notation terms. By telling you there are 7 "syllables" in each line of his "tune poem," he was probably giving you the best possible hint about how to follow what he was playing.

On the other hand, he may have just been trying to give a quick "brush-off" to the guy who was having trouble following(?).

The only way to be sure, of course, is to get back with the fiddler and "discuss" an explanation - to assure that you're both speaking the same language.

John

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Unusually time
From: dulcimer
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 08:39 PM

JohninKansas--what you say makes sense. The fiddler was an American from Seattle, transplanted to Westport, Co. Mayo. I don't think he really wanted me chording in the background. He was a most excellent player and the others playing were certainly a cut above most Irish pub session players.    So it just took the whole experience as a opportunity to listen and learn.