Origins: Tune from 'Celtic Guitar' early 80's

Subject: Origins: Tune from 'Celtic Guitar' mid-s
From: GUEST,marthabees
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 04:12 PM

I have looked for the album and the tune title for this tune for over 20 years. Maybe YOU good folks can finally put me out of my misery. In the mid-80's I was given a tape of an album which was labeled "Celtic Guitar."
But I don't even know if that is accurate. It is lovely music and I'd love to get my own copy and even PAY for it!

It's in 3 meter:

| d f e | d - - | d f g | a - - |

| d f e | d - - | d f g | a - - |

| a bflat a | g - - | c d c | f - - |

| g a g | d f a | g e f | d - - ||

I've used it a lot and even put wonderful words to it for church where it became a "hit" with the congregation. I am loath to publish it because I respect copyright.

So the tune and the song lie fallow.....

Anybody recognize the tune and (insert bated breath here) the source album?

Thanks,
Martha in Tallahassee

Subject: RE: Origins: Tune from 'Celtic Guitar' early 80's
From: JennieG
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 09:45 PM

Hi Martha,
I have a CD called Celtic Guitar, it may or may not be the one you mean. Insert says Recorded at Studio Budikov, May 1990; the guitarist is Michal Hromek plus other musos on flute, viol, piano, recorders, percussion, vocal. All tunes written and/or arranged by Michal Hromek except where noted.
Tracks are: (and the spelling is not mine!)
1. First two pieces by Turlough O Carolan / trad., arr./
   a/ Shebeg and Shermor #1   
   b/ Mrs McDermott
2. Second two O Carolan Pieces / trad., arr/
   a/ Tune without title
   b/ Planxty Burke
3. Suite (Michal Hromek)
   a/ Prelude   b/ Pilgrimage   c/ March
4. Two Irish ballads / trad., arr./
   a/ Fanaid Grove
   b/ Down by the Sally Gardens
5. Three pieces by O Carolan / trad., arr./
   a/ Lament for Owen Roe O'Neill
   b/ O'Carolan's Cup
   c/ O'Carolan's Quarrel with the Landlady
6. An English song with an Irish jig / trad., arr./
   a/ Once I had a sweetheart
   b/ Blarney Pilgrim
7. Mixolydian Song (Michal Hromek & Pavel Kalina)
8. Dorian Song - The trees they do grow high / trad., arr./
9. Shebeg and Shemor #2 / trad., arr./
The CD was manufactured and distributed by Holborne Distributing Co. Ltd, PO Box 309S, Mount Albert, ON LOG 1MO if that helps!
Mind you, I don't know how he can credit O'Carolan as being the composer of so many 'trad' tunes.......
Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: Origins: Tune from 'Celtic Guitar' early 80's
From: marthabees
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 10:02 PM

JennieG,
The CD you cite looks like it has wonderful stuff in it. Does any of it sound like the tune I posted? I gotta wonder cuz the I was given the tape (a copy of an original record, I think, mind you) in the mid-80's.

Hoping,
Martha in Tallahassee

Subject: RE: Origins: Tune from 'Celtic Guitar' early 80's
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 11:36 PM

G'day Martha,

I presume that the Bb in the third line is the only "semitone" ... so the tune (as you are playing it) is in Dminor. I can't recognise it from sight-reading ... but I'll try it on an instrument when I get home. (I'm guessing that all the 3-note bars are made up of equal values .. crotchets [or ¼ notes] ).

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Origins: Tune from 'Celtic Guitar' early 80's
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 12:19 AM

G'day again Martha,

I was sketching out the dots ... and realised that there is no relative pitch indicated (unless you use some code with upper/lower case ... or some other indication that has dropped out on the html of Mudcat).

I was particularly worried about bars 3 & 4 of line 3. Are:
... ... | c d c | f - - |
in the upper octave?

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Origins: Tune from 'Celtic Guitar' early 80's
From: JennieG
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 01:51 AM

Marhta,

I'm with Bob on this one - I had a bit of trouble translating your letters, I'm sorry!

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: Origins: Tune from 'Celtic Guitar' early 80's
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 08:43 AM

G'day yet again Martha,

Hmmmm ... I'm afraid I'm not hearing too much more when I play it. The way I have it from your note letters, it's an interesting minor key tune - but I'm not sure where it goes in line three ... and it hasn't rung any bells yet!

Hope to hear a few more details!

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Origins: Tune from 'Celtic Guitar' early 80's
From: marthabees
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 10:57 AM

And I thought I'd very carefully put it down in a very cogent manner...silly me.

Key: d minor
Notes: all white notes except the B flat.
Range: all within one octave (d to d')
Rhythm: straight three meter, each note and each dash equals one beat.
Tempo: slow
Attitude: lyrical and smooth
Harmony: the third line moves into the relative major (F major) which is very satisfying and then back to the original minor a couple of beats later.

And oops.... line three should have indicated that C D C was the next higher octave.

| d f e | d - - | d f g | a - - |

| d f e | d - - | d f g | a - - |

| a bflat a | g - - | c' d' c' | f - - |

| g a g | d f a | g e f | d - - ||

You are far too sophisticated for me. I wrote this down like I'd write it for my 5th graders (except for the octave thing), but then they're used to my style of transcription and I sorta neglected to include that for you....sorry!

Thanks for looking and PLEASE try again.

Subject: RE: Origins: Tune from 'Celtic Guitar' early 80's
From: Margaret V
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 09:02 PM

I know just what it is, it's Bernard Benoit, and it's called "Lutunn Noz." The album came out in 1975 and was originally on the Musical Heritage Society label (a little tricky to get in the first place), but now it is available on CD on a label called Arion (ARN 64484). Unfortunately they tinkered with the original format and wove in some "bonus" tracks which aren't really a bonus, but the old beauties are still there. The song you like (I play this on my guitar too, along with two others from the album) is "L'Heritiere de Keroulaz" and is trad. (Breton) arr. Benoit. These really are beautiful tunes. I don't remember where I tracked down the CD but I can poke around and look for you. Cheers, Margaret

Subject: RE: Origins: Tune from 'Celtic Guitar' early 80's
From: Margaret V
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 09:08 PM

Hey, it's available on Amazon! I'd snap it up if I were you since it'll probably go out of print again. Margaret

Subject: RE: Origins: Tune from 'Celtic Guitar' early 80's
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 02:29 AM

G'day Martha,

Thanks for that. The n' indication is what I would have used for the next octave up (and N for the octave below). That's adequate for simple written note names ... but lots of Mudcatters use a far more systematic and sophisticated letter notation called ABC.

It's not something I have bothered with, as I prefer dots ... but it does allow fairly sophisticated tune swapping without any supporting software - and the data just slots into an email - or Mudcat posting - as a string of text. And then there are programs that read the letters and convert it into good practical "sheet music". I'm sure some 'Catter, heavily into ABC can give you much better advice on that. (I might even look over their shoulder, since there are lots of tunes posted in ABC and I'm lazy enough to prefer using an application to do the decoding!)

As far as the tune goes, I had pretty well second-guessed your notation ... only the pitch of the last 'f' in the third line ... and I played it both ways. It did not sound British isles 'Celtic' ... but I'm not surprised to find that it is Breton ... very 'other' Celts!

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Origins: Tune from 'Celtic Guitar' early 80's
From: GUEST,marthabees
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 01:01 PM

Dear Margaret et al:

I am sooo excited that the mystery is solved. I went to amazon.com and ordered the CD immediately.

I am delighted that it is available in remastered format on CD. So cool.

Thanks to each of you for your help.
Bob - I've seen abc stuff before but since I read standard notation I haven't seen a need for it. Till now.

I will now proceed to the Search engine to look up that software that automatically decodes abc......

Best to all of you and what a group this is!!

Martha in Tallahassee where it hasn't rained in two whole days and the sky is....gasp....blue!