Corruption of the meaning of Session

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: greg stephens
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 02:57 PM

Well,Pied Piper, I know a lot of sessions can be spoiled by insensitive singers(or tune players) but I really cant let you get away wth the basis of your argument: that "session" used to mean "tune session" but has recently been perverted in meaning to include singers. You may always use the word to mean "tune session", but that is emphatically not the history of the term. How old are you? I rather fancy I might have been going to song sessions, song and tune sessions, and tune sessions(and witnessed the associated argy-bargying) longer than you.
   I'm not saying I disagree with you about what constitutes a good session, or good manners at a session(I dont know you). But I sure as hell know you are completely wrong on the historical meaning of the word.

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 03:58 PM

Oakley's in Brazil

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: smallpiper
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 07:56 PM

Bolloxs Greg - playing the age card is a red herring. A session historically has been a gathering of tune smiths and it is only recently that it has included singing. I've been involved in trad music for 45 years and my father before me and a sesion has always (in terms of me and my dad which would be about 90 years) been about tunes. Having said that I repeat that I (for one) accept the change in the meaning and advise pp to do he same. In the words of Chinua Achebie "Things fall apart".

PS Oakley is not in Brazil he is in China

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: Bassic
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 09:36 PM

PP- I met you only the once, at the end of a "session" in central Manchester, on return to my car, the window was broken and my CD player was stolen!! But that is annother story :-) I found you passionate about your music and indeed, you gave me several coppies of tunes that I found interesting and thoughtfull of you. Thank you. And yes, your view of what constitutes a "session" is what I always understood to be the traditional view.

Noreen and SP- Yes, mea culpa. Did mention PP to you SP but should remedy the lack of introduction. Are you ready for the invasion Noreen and PP? Something for the Autumn perhaps?

Mixed Sessions- I think this is where the crossover and "borrowing of terms" has started. I have enjoyed mixed sessions that have been run like singarounds and those that have been like tune sessions (less structured). The problem, as always, is one of simple manners and self awareness. Every session/singaround/mixed session has its own interpretaion of the "rules". They come about through custom and practice and also depend on the extent to which they are "contoled" by the organiser. Understanding the "rules" requires a brain, experience and tact. Not everyone has them in full measure. Especialy when we play in a situation that is not familiar to us. (as a guest or at festival events or gatherings).

I am glad that there are organs such as Mudcat where these issues, and peoples frustrations with them, can be aired. Its not a case of having to get personal to make a point, its about becoming aware of other peoples viewpoints, "how do they see the same situation". Its how we learn about the way things are changing around us and learn to cope and adapt. We are all here for the same reason I hope. To preserve, develope and respect the kind of music we all share and enjoy. Amen.

.......................we will now sing hymn number 46

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 02:52 AM

Bollox indeed to you Smallpiper. Pied Piper's argument(and yours) depends on the word "session" having originally meant "tune session". That's why my playing the age card is perfectly relevant. It is a FACT that when I was young "sessions" could refer to singing. Maybe they didnt in your part of the world, but they did in mine. So anybody is perfectly entitled to use the word session to include songs, and not be accused by Pied Piper of perverting the meaning of the word. But here is another possibility,I agree, which is that Pied Piper is much older than me, and that he is referring to an era before mine when he was around and session meant tune session. Tha's why I asked his age.: it's kind of critical: whichever one of us is older, their definition of session takes precedence in historical terms.
    I'm not talking about what makes a good session, or how to behave at them. I am quoting a fact, not an opinion.

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: smallpiper
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 03:20 AM

Ok Greg so my da was using the term (so he told me)when he was a lad in the 1920's (and his da before him in the 18 sumits)to mean a "tune session" if you added singing (and possibly some dncing) then it became a ....(wait for it) .... a Celidh. So do I win on the historical precedence bit?

However non of this alters the fact that the usage has changed, quicker than our understanding has, so we have to accept it.

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 03:35 AM

My extremely brief foray into sociology in the 80s taught me that describing the batantly obvious can often bring one's attention to points that are so obvious as to be unconsidered ... so here goes:

* When a singer sings a song, no-one can join in except in chorus lines (if any), because every verse is different, and only the repeated lines are join-inable; the song is of fixed length and stops when it reaches the end.
* A tune, having no words, is the same all the way through: everything is repeated, and everyone can join in all the time; it goes on for as long or short a time as the players like (American style), or convention indicates (GB style).
* If a player wants to play in a song session, s/he will be essentially a solo performer; if a singer wants to sing at a music session, s/he will be preventing everyone else from joining in.
* Not all singers can play an instrument, and not all musicians can sing.

On the whole, I feel it would be rather unfair for a singer to expect singaround treatment at a music-only session: that's not what the musicians are there for. As a singer, I have to agree that it really is a self-indulgent ego trip!

Back to the blatantly obvious: if we all impress the distinction on our friends (and enemies!) there will be fewer occasions for misunderstanding and falling-out.

Steve

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 03:53 AM

I'm not a folk club attender so I am uniquely equipped to display the depth of my ignorance (again). Is this a peculiarly UK phenomenon? Our transatlantic friends don't seem to have this problem. Is there no place for an MC or session leader to ensure both sides (and does it have to be opposing sides?) get a fair share of time? Personally, I'm not fond enough of either a capella singing or country dance tunes to want to spend an evening listening to wholy one or the other. I prefer songs with instrumental accompaniment with occasional instrumentals or solo singers.
These anngst-ridden gatherings don't sound much FUN!

RtS
(I'll stick to the jazz, blues & skiffle sessions- sighs of relief from the folk community)

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 04:06 AM

memo to self: USE THE PREVIEW FACILITY. Sorry about extended italics and mis-spelling of angst!

RtS
(thick as a constipated turd)

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: Trevor
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 04:12 AM

Well I'm glad somebody has cleared up what a 'session' is then! Silly me, I thought they were about music - the style (tunes or songs) being defined by the attendees. It sounds like I'm a lucky boy in that the places I go to usually have a good mix of both and that the people who share their music are interested in just that - the music.

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 04:42 AM

Perhaps I should play the age card as well. Towards the end of the 60s, I went to several musical evenings at a pub called "The Butt and Oyster" at Pin Mill, Suffolk. I was first invited by Bob Roberts, who besides being the skipper of the last working Sailing Barge "Cambria" was also a singer, melodeon player, and poet - I can also recall him stepdancing on a tabletop too. These entertainments were definitely referred to as "Sessions", yet they combined song, music and sometimes poetry and music too. Solos were quite common and frequently requested. The instruments included Melodeons, Fiddles, and Hammer Dulcimers. Instrumentalists would be quite selective about which tunes they joined in on, so there was a variety in the sound produced for different sets. Most of the participants were old boys who had been playing for years. They were wonderful evenings and I think that Reg Hall recorded some of them. This somehow doesn't sound like PP's definition of session.

Perhaps we should stop saying "Shanty Session" or "West Gallery Session" - and is PP going to make sure that the Oxford Dictionary tighten up their rather loose definition of the word.

In my humble opinion, any activity which takes place over a fixed period of time is a "session".

Anyway I think I've had enough of this discussion session - oh whoops - wash my mouth out with soap - after all discusion is an activity when people all speak separately and egos are often very much to the fore !

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: Pied Piper
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 05:37 AM

Thanks for your contributions folks.
I hope this has cleared a few things up.
I don't know why we've never met Smallpiper; are you a regular at the Ull Sessions?

And finally

I would rather have Sex than watch somebody doing it.

All the best PP

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: clansfolk
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 05:44 AM

" this is my point, people need to know what the event is, and to use the word that has been used for years to mean an *instrumental get together in a Pub without qualification is not helping things.
PP

Having attended "music sessions" since the late 50's and my Father ran "session" way back from the 20's (various styles of music) - in all that time a session has meant what has been said previously by me (and others) simply a get together.

Now I agree with you PP that if and event is advertised it should include any provisos put on it by the organiser/s   e.g. Instrumentals only, No Singers allowed, No more than one Bodhran at any one time to be played, No eggs, etc. etc. ad nausea......

To me the word "session" being incorrectly used in the context of a Musical Instrument playing only session, came about with the influx of Irish Music Pubs and the crossing over of many local bands from Folk to Irish and the "in" use of the term "craic" - of course this was like the influx of American music and protest songs in the sixties along with pseudo American accents being adopted....

As for not being allowed to use a word in its original form because "others" have deemed it to be meaning something else well slang is slang! and I'm still happy to be Gay and heterosexual!

Use the English Language to describe your event properly or don't be so bigoted and insular



* I can't find this definition even in my slang dictionary..... please refer me to your source

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 05:52 AM

My bit FWIW; a Session is for music (heads down and go for it) and a Singaround is exactly what it says on the tin.

Having been to a Session, sung a song and seen the expression on the faces and the volume of the sighs, I have learnt which is which. Nowadays, if I want to go to a session, I phone the organiser first and ask his opinion.

Sal

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 05:59 AM

If something is described as a session with no qualifier, I would assume it to be instrumental only. However I think it is perfectly proper to talk about a song session, or a mixed session as long as these qualifiers are included to show what to expect.

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 06:19 AM

Of course even if the default meaning of session is an instrumental one (I don't subscribe to the late Sir Thomas Beeching's snide categorisation of Musicians and Singers) then perhaps you still need further description. The English Country Danceband Music session at Southwark would not suit many Irish Style musicians at all. Neither would one which specialised in Playford tunes or one I know at Eastwick which is mainly Bluegrass. I hope that the word does not come to mean only Irish music as many of our local ones seem to.

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: IanC
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 06:31 AM

Well, the use of "session" to describe music is only fairly recent anyway. For most of my life, "session" by itself would have described a Drinking Session ... no music at all.

With reference to music, I have only ever understood "music session" or "session" to mean a period of time during which musical things happen.

Why try to narrow the meaning?

:-(

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: Gurney
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 06:42 AM

Maybe the 'organisers' should provide venues for every artform. At my local festival, it has devolved that the session (PP's definition) lovers play a lot of Irish tunes, and fair play to them, but they always take over the most comfortable venue, by persistance and volume. The rest of the enthusiasts, be they blues, trad, dancers etc., have to make do with tents or tiny corners. If it rains, they will have to put up with it or invade the 'sessionist' comfort.
Most people seem to be able to enjoy a certain amount of instrumental, but they NEED songs.
I'd says PP is right, though, about a session being musical. The language changes constantly. We used to have unaccompanied songs, (only posh people had A Capella,) and singarounds, and cracks.

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: smallpiper
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 06:47 AM

I sure am PP.

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 07:43 AM

Interesting debate... For my part, I would consider "together" the key word for a session, i.e. that whether we are talking about songs or tunes, for the most part, people would be joining in at the same time. I would not consider a sing around where people take in turns to sing a song to be a session even if others did join in with choruses.

My preference in sessions is towards largely or even entirely instrumental sessions and take a different view to andymac. I'd like to think any session I go to is welcoming to all who wish to participate in whatever type of session is being run. I fail to see though why any session should be considered cliquish if they happen to focus on one area of music or on tunes as opposed to songs. My attitude with that is if you like what a session is about, great - enjoy it but if you don't, try elsewhere and don't protest.

McGrath, you said:

'And there are story-telling sessi0ns and dance sessions for that matter.

"Session" just means you're sitting down together...'

I'm intrigued by the idea of sitting down together to dance ;-)

Jeri, I think it was Cap't Bob who started the "Floating" thread.

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 07:47 AM

I must agree with the sentiment if not the diplomatic way it was worded PP:-) As a participant in both, an attendee and an organiser of 20+ years standing I do believe we need to make these things clear. It always used to be session=communal music singaroung=individual singing and music. Makes my life easier if people stick to that!

Imaging the fuss if 500 kids turned up to a rave and found it was a school disco! Or if the Playford brigade went to a ceilidh to find it was line dancing...

I like to keep things simple. Like me. Anyway PP - don't worry about singers jumping in is sessions. Just make sure you have them huge war pipes with you to help them out;-)

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: treewind
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 07:49 AM

If I ever talk about a session to somebody who doesn't know about the particular event in question, I always qualify it by describing it. I've seen this confusion happen too many times.

As for decreeing that a session means a tune session - I'm sorry, but nobody gets to absolutely define what's what in folk music. Anyone with such a totally rigid idea of the meaning of the term "session" (whichever meaning that is) needs to get out more.

As to tunes-only sessions being described as elitist - no, that's not the point. There are many different kinds of sessions - from pure singarounds to tunes-only. Some are run by an MC, others are jump in when you feel like it. An English music session is different from an Irish session is different from a bluegrass session - not just the music, but the conventions like how many times a tune is played etc.
I welcome this variety, and reject the pleadings that it's all folk music and anyone should expect to be welcome to do anything anywhere. THAT's just another particular type of session: I've been to some like that and they have their limitations too.

Live and let live, that's what I say.

If you don't like the way a particular session runs itself, and enough people agree with you, start another one. And if not enough people agree with you... draw your own conclusions.

Anahata
(who has been to a regular monthly round-the-room that welcomed step dancing and story telling as well as songs and tunes but explicitly banned guitars and bodhrans. It takes all sorts. That one doesn't run any more, not suprisingly)

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 08:06 AM

Well, if I have read this argument(??) right, because Pied Piper and Smallpiper's da use(d) the word "session" to mean a "tune session(Irish), this gives them the right to turn up at the Red Lion session in Market Drayton and demand that we stop singing and all play Banish Misfortune and the High Reel ensemble. Or have I missed the point somewhere?

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: 8ch(pl)
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 08:32 AM

I play in a "Song Circle" with the Harbour Folk society at the ferry terminal in Dartmouth Nova Scotia each Wednesday evening. We have been there about 3 years and I started 2 years ago.

We need all of the musicians who show up. There have been times when there was just me and one other member. She doesn't play an instrument, I play mandolin. Last night we had a nice session with 7 participants. We also had an audience moving through during the 2 1/2 hous that we were there.

Since I started in this, my first public venue I have had to adapt my playing to accompany instrumental and voice presentation in virtually all keys. For my part I believe I have grown a great deal because of the times I have been out. Work has recently kept me from it, but for now I am back at it.

I would like to say that there is no problems with our group. There is some music which I do not try to accompany, but for the most part we all try to act as a session band no matter who's turn it is. We have become friends through this. If you like someone, you should overlook their little faults. I hope the others do so with mine.

Glen

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: smallpiper
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 08:42 AM

Thanks Greg. I do believe that I said we should accept the fact that the meaning of the word has changed (you seem to be ignoring that one).   And who said it was Irish music? I said tunes. I did not specify any ethnicity. And I wouldn't dream of turning up at anyones session and demand anything at all (other than good manners).

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 10:12 AM

"the meaning of the word has changed"

Strikes me if its changed its been a question of it cahnging back to its traditional meaning. Or maybe it never cahnged at all except in some people's patch.

"Fellowship is Life. Lack of fellowship is death" - William Morris wrote that. He wasn't talking about music and siomnging, but he might have been.

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 10:21 AM

I dont think the meaning of the word has changed at all. Its just that some people seem to think it ought to mean "just tunes", even if it didnt mean that a while ago. Tell you what, if you mean "tune session" say "tune session". If you mean "poker session" say "poker session". then we'll all know what we're talking about.

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: smallpiper
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 10:27 AM

Take your own advice Greg isn't that what PP was complaining of in the first place? Or have I got bored and lost it?

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: Pied Piper
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 11:39 AM

I advertise the two Sessions that we started recently in central Manchester as instrumental Sessions, which I think is quite clear. That doesn't mean that if someone turned up and sang a song I'd stop them, it just means that the balance is well on the tune side.
Now if there were singing Sessions were every one joined in on most of the songs, or people sang cannons or part arrangements I'd love to attend, and sing, but that doesn't happen (well at least not yet).

PP

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: Noreen
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 02:08 PM

Something approaching that does happen, PP, at some 'singarounds' eg the Middle Bar at Sidmouth and some pub singarounds at festivals, eg the White Lion at the recent Upton festival (and anywhere where Shellbacks gather!). At these singarounds, songs (with the odd exception) will be chorus songs, the choruses being joined in with vociferously(!) by all present. In this environment I would lead a chorus song when my turn comes, because I know that most people there want to join in and not just listen.

Other places I sing (eg the Arden Arms in Stockport tonight) I am happy to sing a ballad or a quiet lyrical song, with no chorus, because I know that the others there will enjoy listening to that sort of song, for the beauty of the song and its delivery (it is to be hoped) and NOT expect or wish to join in every song.

Perhaps it demands the suspension of ones own ego to be able to enjoy listening to somebody else performing and not have to join in? Please don't think that's a personal dig at you, more me thinking out loud, and leading on from a converstion about a related matter I had recently.

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: GUEST,Vince
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 04:12 PM

I'll be at Saddleworth festival next weekend (18-20th)..where there's always some good sing-a-rounds or 'come-all-yehs' (especially the late Sat'day neet one in the C**///tive club and survivors session at the cross keys). I was at the Poyton festival where there were sing-a-rounds and (mostly instumental) music sessions. Noreen, again, is absolutely right. There's room for all. It's all about how individuals express the music and song as they feel and see it. As i've said previously, its all about tolerance, good manners and sharing. Maybe its a lack of those virtues in some people that has contributed to the apparent decline in folk clubs over the years. Its a great shame. Its 2003, are we ever going to grow up!

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: clansfolk
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 04:13 PM

WARNING

I've just received the latest list for what's going on and where during the Fylde Folk Festival 2003:

It would appear the John and I (Penny Black) will be running a "session" at the Victoria on Saturday noon...... now anyone who know us will be aware that we don't do a lot of tunes!!! (maybe the odd dill pickers (sic) or Foggy Mountain/duelling banjos - with an Irish accent) - so If its still in the programme in August and you decide to "pop-in" don't expect music only!!!!!

NB anyone wishing to sue F.F.F. under the trade description act should contact Mr A Bell :-)

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: My guru always said
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 04:43 AM

I'm with Ian C & the drinking session *grin*

What a hot topic! As I'm moving to another area soon I'm hoping to seek and find acoustic music of all kinds and will be especially interested in how these events are described. Being unable to play an instrument I'll be mostly looking for 'singarounds' and 'mixed sessions', although I'll be glad to tap my feet at 'instrumental sessions' too.

While on my search I hope to find musicians (including singers) to enjoy music with in my new local area. If there are no 'singarounds' or 'mixed sessions' then perhaps a 'tune session' may evolve into a 'mixed session' & we can blend our skills and knowledge together. Although I mainly sing ballads (through years of singing in the privacy of my own home) I'll be concentratiing on finding good chorus songs to sing so that we can all make a good sound together.

May we always have music.....
Hil

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 05:13 AM

We were disussing this last night. When I first started singing, back in the late 60s, there weren't any sessions, and I don't remember singarounds either: you went to a folk club and asked for a floor spot. Non-singing solo musicians were a rarity, and there was no way you could join in a tune. In fact, I don't recall hearing of music sssions till I came down to Bucks about six years ago. Maybe they just don't have them in the Midlands? Maybe they do, but nobody told me!

"Session" does indeed come from a root that means "sitting"; "avocado" comes from a root that means "lawyer". Etymology is a two-edged weapon ...

Hil, where are you going? I'm sure you'll get plenty of feedback about ... let's call them "venues"!

Steve

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 05:17 AM

If Linda and I have a Sex Session does it mean that we've got to let everyone else join in ?

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: My guru always said
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 05:33 AM

Steve - either Huntingdon or Surrey, not sure yet, but I'll definitely be asking around about 'venues' *giggle*

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: GUEST,orange utan
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 06:05 AM

well, its alright for them that have lots of sessions near 'em. Kind of been stuck with Folk Clubs in Exeter, so I've been trying to set one up.

So for anyone interested "Mostly Music Session" 25th July, North Bridge Inn.
(singing/dancing encouraged, depends on how the drinking's going)

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 07:06 AM

Dave -- only if they sit down!

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: GUEST,BDog
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 01:13 PM

In the thirty something years I've been involved in folk music the word session when unqualified, has usually, but not exclusively, been used to indicate a music session. Throughout that time I've not noticed any shift in that loose interpretation. The word singaround either appears to be a far more recent term, or it's use has geographically spread. So what were we doing before we had singarounds?

What I didn't understand until now, was it's true meaning of singaraound:

'The "sing around", more accurately defined as a self-indulgent rotational Ego trip, is something completely different stressing as it does the, them and us/ performer audience, dichotomy.'

Thanks PP for clearing that up. I'll keep it in mind the next time a musician joins in with a song too loud, in the wrong key, at the wrong speed, and unable to cope with time signiture variates. It is, of course, the musician that is right, and all the singers fault for being on an ego trip.

Me forget the 7th verse for the last 20 years? Hell no! It's the 6th that I've consistantly forgotten! However, I do distinctly remember hearing a musicians session the other night where they missed the 7th verse out of every tune. I was obliged to hum one extra verse at the end of every tune (attemping to stay in the correct key of course) just to make things tally for the song/tune police.

You stick with your tight little pigeon holes if thats what makes you comfortable. Personnally, I like the fuzzy old world, where you don't know what you're getting until it happens. It's people like you who are buggering it up.

Brian

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: IanC
Date: 11 May 04 - 11:35 AM

There's an interesting use of the word session to describe a contest of poetic wit (possibly sung), in a song "A Sessions of Wit", Merry Drollery - 1st part - (1661) pp68-72

"A session was held the other day ..."

:-)

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: Lanfranc
Date: 11 May 04 - 06:46 PM

Missed this first time around.

Pied Piper = petty sessions judge!

Alan

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: TS
Date: 11 May 04 - 06:59 PM

I'm pretty certain that "Sessions", "Jams", "kitchen parties", and all the likes were created for fun, for the order of good times as Cartier put it well enough. Whatever happened that sessions had to become full of spites, jealousies, ignorances, and arrogances alike. Its about the simple little trait we learned long ago as children. Sharing. I used to partake in a regular weekly session at a pub. Many of the local Comhaltas members came out and it was great. Soon the session became a Comhaltas "practice" and those of us who were not members were almost shunned. I was invited to become a Comhaltas member but I couldnt because I was an "always on the road" musician. I was frowned upon after that and thus ended my desires to participate in Sessions and its unfortunate.

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 May 04 - 08:35 PM

"Many of the local Comhaltas members came out" ...

An excellent example of the way in which innovations in the way language is used can have tricky consequences. Which is what this strange thread was all about, really.

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: erinmaidin
Date: 12 May 04 - 05:24 AM

I have to admit that I scanned through most of the posts and probably didn't spend as much time as I should have , evaluating..measuring words...playing with semantics, etc. but I've only an average of 70 yrs. on this planet and who has time?!
I did get an impression that many believe that sessions in Ireland would not include singing. There is nothing more rewarding and exciting (to me) than someone from the village being coaxed into releasing an absolute jewel of a song into the session...it's tradition.
I will be the first to say I find "The Fields of Athenry" and "Wild Rover" etc. a bit redundant. If someone must sing, find one of those jewels,learn it well..accompanied or not...singing AS in playing, is something that should be practiced, polished and refined...otherwise it's just a noisy release of lung fuel.

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 12 May 04 - 08:41 AM

I'm a singer who plays the guitar a bit, and I occasionally play at a session at the Blue Bell, Gringley. I strum along with the tune-players and, if they ask me, I sing a song (or two!). If they didn't ask me, I wouldn't force a song on them, but they invariably ask. Just seems like a happy setup there, with plenty of mutual respect being shown. It's a very nice session indeed.

My main grouse about some tune-players (and there's one of these at that session sometimes!!) are those who, apparently deliberately, play obscure tunes at breakneck speed, with several key-changes which, as a non-reader, I find almost impossible to follow, and then smirk in a very superior fashion at my discomfiture (and that of some of the others trying to join in!). I presume some of those who've posted on this thread would say it serves me right for being a sub-standard musician?

Johnny :0)

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: JulieF
Date: 12 May 04 - 08:57 AM

I also find it strange having put so much effort into overcoming nerves to be branded an egotistical singer.

Saying that there is a point about balance and too many singers in a many 'tunes' session can cause problems. I'm inclined to think that one song every fourth or fifth set is probably as mixed as you should go. It is very difficult for a singer to jump in and sing before the collective musicians start up on yet another set. I am notorious for hanging round and not opening my mouth ( ok I do talk a bit) and tend to wait to be asked.   With people I know well I will jump in but that tends to be only in our own sessions. Even in these where I am the only singer , I would only do about 3 songs max in an evening

I attend sing-arounds but I get a different experience in the mixed/tune session.   I would actually say the the musicians can gain from singers - perhaps picking up a melodic line for the next set.

PP Will come to your Manchester Session if I can persuade our musicians but not on my own as I would dangerously swing the balance towards us egotistical singers.

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 May 04 - 08:59 AM

How would being able to read music help in spotting the key changes?
Generally if you've played with people a few times you find you get a feeling for what the new keys are likely to be. If you can't, well there's got to be some times in the evening when it's good to be able to take a break and sit back and listen and finish your pint.

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: barrygeo
Date: 12 May 04 - 09:44 AM

What you need to control your sessions is a good "fear a' ti" - man of the house. Irish music sessions or ceili (in irish) originated when groups in local communities came together in one house for mutual entertainment. The most successful sessions depended on a good fear an ti whose main job was to control the politics of the session. He would know when to call for a song or a particular singer. He would know if there was a very good singer or musician lurking in the shadows but too shy to come forward. He didn't try to totally control events but to gently move the session in a certain direction.
The fear an ti was often not a musician as they are too involved in the music to suss out whats going on in the room but he would probably have a song or two - or a story to tell.

If you need to control your session get yourself a good fear a'ti or bean a' ti (woman of the house.

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: Pied Piper
Date: 12 May 04 - 09:50 AM

Julie you'll be very welcome with or without your mates.

Bishop; I would engage you in a battle of wits but I was brought up never to fight an un-armed man.

Subject: RE: Corruption of the meaning of Session
From: matai
Date: 12 May 04 - 09:56 AM

In Auckland, at the Dogs Bollix, on a Tuesday Night they have what they call a Traditional Irish session. It usually starts with a song, played on the banjo, or guitar by Swig (fear a'ti?), various instrumentalists join in, later swing off into tunes, reels , gigs. In the pauses there are unaccompanied singers, poets. Sometimes an American rock'n'roll set, a french set (voice and accordion)and when it quietens down the song-writers get a moment or 15.
The craic is great and the pub is always full to overflowing.