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Raymond & Frederick Cantwell - info?

GUEST,miss_b 11 Jul 03 - 08:52 AM
GUEST,miss_b 11 Jul 03 - 09:26 AM
GUEST,miss_b 11 Jul 03 - 09:54 AM
greg stephens 11 Jul 03 - 02:37 PM
GUEST,Matthew Edwards 11 Jul 03 - 04:27 PM
GUEST,miss_b 13 Jul 03 - 10:09 AM
GUEST,Matthew Edwards 13 Jul 03 - 06:13 PM
GUEST,miss_b 15 Jul 03 - 07:04 AM
greg stephens 15 Jul 03 - 07:53 AM
GUEST,Matthew Edwards 15 Jul 03 - 08:08 AM
GUEST,Sue Adams 20 Mar 13 - 07:04 AM
Tradsinger 21 May 14 - 06:54 PM
GUEST,Fred McCormick 22 May 14 - 01:25 PM
andyturner 24 May 14 - 08:00 AM
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Subject: Raymond & Frederick Cantwell - info?
From: GUEST,miss_b
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 08:52 AM

Would anyone be able to give me some kind of potted history on Raymond & Frederick Cantwell? I'm putting together a CD for a friend, but I have no copy of the record I originally got my bootlegged copy of them from! Cheers.


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Subject: RE: Raymond & Frederick Cantwell - info?
From: GUEST,miss_b
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 09:26 AM

I'm trying to keep this at the top of the threads list in an infuriating manner...


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Subject: RE: Raymond & Frederick Cantwell - info?
From: GUEST,miss_b
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 09:54 AM

Me again...


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Subject: RE: Raymond & Frederick Cantwell - info?
From: greg stephens
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 02:37 PM

Would they be relatives of Aubrey Cantwell of Standlake famous for singing the Nightingale etc etc. or am I a bit confused(this is not unusual). i have a recording of Aubrey singing a couple of songs in the Bell in Standlake. I'd be interested to hear what you've got.


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Subject: RE: Raymond & Frederick Cantwell - info?
From: GUEST,Matthew Edwards
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 04:27 PM

I recall hearing the 'Nightingale' song Greg mentions in the Caedmon/Topic Series Folk Songs of Britain, which Rounder haver reissued on CD. Mike Yates recorded them singing 'Muddley Barracks' (aka 'Bungay Roger' aka 'Yorkshire Blinder') in a very lively rendition at a wedding party in Standlake, and this is on a set of cassette tapes issued by Veteran as The Horkey Load. Folktrax have some more recordings if you are willing to deal with them.
I hadn't known of any recording in issue, bootleg or otherwise, so miss_b, you may have something rather interesting there. If you are looking for some more information I think Mike Yates would be the best source - but if it is his tape that was 'bootlegged' then perhaps best not...


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Subject: RE: Raymond & Frederick Cantwell - info?
From: GUEST,miss_b
Date: 13 Jul 03 - 10:09 AM

I'm afraid it's not all that interesting! I nicked it off one of the original Topic 'Folk Music of the British Isles' LPs - either Songs of Courtship or Songs of Seduction, I forget which. Didn't know Rounder had reissued it actually - the whole thing?
I think I know someone who has the Horkey Load tapes, so I'll check that out - anyone else got any info though?


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Subject: RE: Raymond & Frederick Cantwell - info?
From: GUEST,Matthew Edwards
Date: 13 Jul 03 - 06:13 PM

No, miss_b, the song on the Rounder re-issue of 'Songs of Seduction' is just as stupidly cut to two verses. The fragment is tantalisingly brief but it seems to have been enough to relaunch the song into the Folk Revival in the 60's. Annoyingly most people sing the chorus as as ' they went arm in arm along the road' where the Cantwells definitely sang 'They went arming along the road'.

The Horkey Load song is attributed simply to 'Cantwell family' without identifying the members involved , but it most likely would have been Aubrey and maybe John.

The National Sound Archive of the British Library has several recordings of the Cantwell family by Mike Yates and also by Gwilym Davies.

The notes by Alan Lomax (or Peter Kennedy?) to the Caedmon/Topic/Rounder recording comment:- "This version is unique in that it has a refrain and a whistled coda. The seventy-three year old [in 1956] Fred Cantwell said emphatically, as he finished the recording, 'It ain't much now, but I used to be able to whistle just exactly like a nightingale when I had my teeth.'

miss_b - I'm sorry if I implied that you might have some illicit material. Still it would have been truly wonderful if you had uncovered some new tapes.


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Subject: RE: Raymond & Frederick Cantwell - info?
From: GUEST,miss_b
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 07:04 AM

No problem - I'd be more than happy to own illicit folk recordings! does this mean I'm going to folkie hell? Never mind...
All I need, really, is a swift bio - where they were based, what they worked as, whether it was a musical family or not (ie yes) and such like.


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Subject: RE: Raymond & Frederick Cantwell - info?
From: greg stephens
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 07:53 AM

The tape I have of Aubrey is a treasured possession. Very atmospheric, you can hear the click of the bar billiards balls going down as he sings. And yes, indeed he sang "arming along the road".


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Subject: RE: Raymond & Frederick Cantwell - info?
From: GUEST,Matthew Edwards
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 08:08 AM

I love these quiet backwaters of the Mudcat, far away from Punch The Horse or names of "thingies", where there are just a few people chatting about something that interests them. Somebody else will probably rediscover this thread in 5 years time and answer all miss_b's questions.

I only have the Topic/Caedmon/Rounder notes to go on and I've already noted all that says. From what I can find Raymond and Fred, as well as Aubrey and John Cantwell were all singers. But I don't know the exact relationships involved, nor the dates. However the Cantwell Bros. still have a family building business at Standlake, near Witney in Oxfordshire.

Peter Kennedy's book Folksongs of Britain and Ireland, gives three songs collected from the Cantwells, but no more information about them.
The songs are:-
Tam Broon, or The Cards from Raymond and John in 1956
The Husband-man and the Serving-man from Raymond and Frederick in 1956
The Nightingales Sing from Raymond and John in 1956 [??? but the same recording is credited to Ray and Fred in the Caedmon notes - with the memorable words about the whistling attributed to "seventy-three year-old Fred"]

Greg Stephens seems to have some more info about the family, and may be able to help out.


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Subject: RE: Raymond & Frederick Cantwell - info?
From: GUEST,Sue Adams
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 07:04 AM

I am the granddaughter of Raymond Cantwell from Standlake and I still live in Standlake. I would be very interested and thrilled if anyone who is interested in the Cantwell Family could contact me. I have the original song of The Nightingale and The Husband-man and the Servant Man sang by Raymond and Fred and I also have several other tape recordings of the Cantwell Brothers (the eight sons of Raymond Cantwell. I would be particularly interested if anyone else has any recordings of the Cantwell family, particularly the recording made by Aubrey, one of the brothers.


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Subject: RE: Raymond & Frederick Cantwell - info?
From: Tradsinger
Date: 21 May 14 - 06:54 PM

Dear Sue,
I met the brothers John and Aubrey Cantwell when they were living in Stonehouse, Gloucestershire, in the 1970s and we had several lively pub sessions together. I have some recordings from then, but they are fairly noisy pub sessions. PM me and I'll let you have more details.

Tradsinger


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Subject: RE: Raymond & Frederick Cantwell - info?
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 22 May 14 - 01:25 PM

Matthew Edwards. "Somebody else will probably rediscover this thread in 5 years time and answer all miss_b's questions."

Well, six years actually. I can't add anything to the songs already discussed. However, check Frank Howes' Folk Music of Britain and Beyond. I'm fairly certain that Howes says he lived in Standlake, knew the Cantwells, but had no idea they sang until The Soldier and the Lady was released on The Folk Songs of Britain.

(Thinks. Who was that mad buggar sitting next to me this afternoon, singing about an escaped lion that made Marco and Pedro take shelter in some churchyard or other?)


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Subject: RE: Raymond & Frederick Cantwell - info?
From: andyturner
Date: 24 May 14 - 08:00 AM

I stumbled across this earlier in the week, and also had to smile at Matthew's predictive powers. I came across the thread because was I was looking for background information to include in my weekly blog, A Folk Song A Week, which this week features Nightingales Sing.

I learned the song many moons ago from the Songs of Seduction LP. Apart from this song, I've only heard Yorkshire Blinder and Husbandman & Servingman. But, as I pass through Standlake fairly often, I've often wondered about the Cantwell family and their songs.

So Sue, I don't have any recordings or information to offer, but I'd be very interested to know more about the family and what they sang and when. Does anyone in your generation still sing the old songs?

Andy Turner


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