Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Lyr Req: A chanter m'er de so q'ieu no volria

poetlady 11 Jul 03 - 05:55 PM
Sorcha 12 Jul 03 - 02:03 AM
poetlady 12 Jul 03 - 02:17 AM
Sorcha 12 Jul 03 - 02:27 AM
Jim Dixon 31 Jul 03 - 06:03 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 31 May 04 - 02:11 PM
GUEST,Amalia 04 Dec 10 - 08:46 PM
Monique 05 Dec 10 - 04:23 AM
GUEST,leeneia 17 Feb 11 - 10:04 AM
Janet Elizabeth 28 Mar 11 - 09:17 AM
Monique 28 Mar 11 - 09:48 AM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 28 Mar 11 - 01:38 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 28 Mar 11 - 02:02 PM
Jack Campin 28 Mar 11 - 02:15 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:




Subject: Lyr Req: A chanter m'er
From: poetlady
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 05:55 PM

I fell in love with this song, but have only been able to find the lyrics in English. It is a medieval French song and was written by a countess named Beatriz. Thank you for any help you can provide.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A chanter m'er
From: Sorcha
Date: 12 Jul 03 - 02:03 AM

See this page quick in case it dissapears.
Lots of info there.
Comtessa de Dia, "A Chantar: Lieder der frauen-minne: Songs of courtly love in the middle ages" A Chantar. Estampie Münchner Ensemble für frühe Musik, CHRISTOPHORUS digital 74583.

"Not much is known about the life of Beatriz de Dia. A contemporary description limits itself to the statement:

The countess of Dia was the wife of William of Poitiers, a beautiful and noble woman. And she fell in love with Raimbaut d'Aurenga and wrote several good songs about him.

"In A chantar she expresses that which poets, musicians and people of all ages have always felt when they are in love: A chantar m'er de so qu'ien non volria, 'I must sing about it, whether I want to or not.'"

This disc specializes in songs known in Germany as "frauenstrophen" (songs from a woman's point of view), called chansons de femme and chansons de toile in France and known in Spain as cantigas de amigo. They portray on the one hand the elated feeling of happiness of a woman in love or more often, her sorrow in the face of the absence or rejection of the beloved.

A Chanter m'er
(stanzas 1, 4 & 5, from the translation by Meg Bogin)

Of things I'd rather keep in silence I must sing:
so bitter do I feel toward him
whom I love more than anything.
With him my mercy and fine manners are in vain,
my beauty, virtue, and intelligence.
For I've been tricked and cheated
as if I were completely loathesome

The great renown that in your heart resides
and your great worth disquiet me,
for there's no woman near or far
who wouldn't fall for you if love were on her mind.
But you, my freind, should have the acumen
to tell which one stands out above the rest.
And don't forget the stanzas we exchanged.

My worth and noble birth should have some weight,
my beauty and especially my noble thoughts:
so I send you there on your estate,
this song as messenger and delegate.
I want to know, my handsome, noble friend,
why I deserve so savage and so cruel a fate.
I can't tell whether it is pride or malice you intend.

But above all, messenger, make him comprehend
that too much pride had undone many men.

Comtessa de Dia, "A Chanter m'er" and "Estat ai" with music by the trobairitz Dame Castelloza on CD titled, "The Romance of the Rose: Feminine Voices from Medieval France," by HelioTrope, directed by Joyce Todd with Joyce Todd, soprano, percussion, harp; Natalie Cox, harp; Shira kammen, vielle, rebec; Kit Robberson, vielle; Kim Swatsler, hurdy-gurdy, monochord; David Tayler, oud. Koch 3-7103-2 H1, 1995.

Estai ai
(from the translation by Meg Bogen.)

I've lately been in great distress
over a knight that once was mine,
and I want it known for all eternity
how I loved him to excess.
Now I see I've been betrayed
because I wouldn't sleep with him;
night and day my mind won't rest
to think of the mistake I've made.

Now I wish just once I could caress
that chevalier with my bare arms,
for he would be in ecstacy
if I'd just let him lean his head against my breast.
I'm sure I'm happier with him
than Blancaflor with. Floris
My heart and love I offer him,
my mind, my eyes, my life.

Handsome friend, charming and kind,
when shall I have you in my power?
If only I could be beside you for an hour
and embrace you lovingly --
know this, that I'd give most anything
to have you in my husband's place,
but only under the condition
that you swear to do my bidding.

Joyce Todd writes:

    "The trobairitz repertory is unique in being the largest body of women's lyric poetry to have been composed in the medieval period. The poems of the sixteen trobairitz who are named in the manuscripts were composed between 1170-1260, during the latter part of the troubador tradition. Much research has been directed in recent years toward the status of women in medieval culture. Historians have documented that women experienced a general decline in social position from the 10th to the 13th century, yet they have also shown that women did temporarily recover several important legal rights during a period roughly corresponding to the activities of the trobairitz. These rights, to hold property, administer estates, and create wills, are indications of a society which fostered the participation of noblewomen in diverse aspects of medieval culture."

Comtessa de Dia, All 3 extant songs: A Chantar/ Estat ai en greu cossirier/Ab joi et ab joven m'apais: on CD titled "Cansós de Trobairitz: Songs of the Women Troubadours (c1200)." Hespèrion XX, Jordi Savall, director. With Montserrat Figueras and Pilar Figueras, sopranos; Josep Benet, tenor. 1978/1990 EMI Records, new release on Virgin veritas VER S 61310 2, 1996.

Comtessa de Dia, A Chantar, on CD titled "The Medieval Lady." Elizabethan Conversation ensemble . Susan Sandman, Derwood Crocker, Andrea Folan, guest soprano. With music by the Maroie de Dregnau de Lille, Queen Blanche, Hildegard of Bingen, Anne Boleyn, Mary Harvey, et al. Leonarda 338, 1997.

Comtessa de Dia, A chantar m'er de so qu'ien non volria. Mara Kiek, voice. "Bella Donna, The Medieval Woman: Lover, Poet, Patroness, Saint," Sinfonye, Stevie Wishart, Director. HYPERION CDA 66283.

Comtessa de Dia, Estampie on A chantar m'er, instrumental realization arranged by Stevie Wishart; Estat ai en greu cossirier (I have been in great perplexity). "The Sweet Look and the Loving Manner, Troubairitz Love Lyrics and Chansons De Femme" Sinfonye, Stevie Wishart, Director. Voice, medieval fiddle, oud, bendir, hurdy gurdy. HYPERION CDA66625.

    According to Stevie Wishart: "...The twelfth and thirteenth centuries are often seen as something of a renaissance for women and, not surprisingly, it is from this time that we have inherited songs by over twenty female troubadours, known as 'trobairitz' and cited as such in the romance Flemenca (c1250).... Only a small proportion of the troubadour lyrics survive with their music, and sadly this is also the case with the trobairitz, for it is only the Comtessa de Dia's most famous love song, 'A Chantar m'er'... that has its melody intact.

    However, to a certain extent there was some independence between the transmission of the poetry and music. Numerous Occitan songs share the same poetic structure, with an identical number of lines per stanza and number of syllables per line, and even share the same rhyme scheme. It was therefore possible for the medieval poet-composers to set their lyrics to a pre-existing melody. This practice of 'contrafacture' was well known throughout the Middle Ages and makes it possible to perform certain of those trobairitz songs which have only their words extant, but replicate the exact poetic structure of another song which has come down to us with its melody intact." "Estat ai" is one of the 5 extant cansos by the Comtessa de Dia and is sung to the melody of Bernart de Ventadorn's canso "Nom es mera villa s'eu chan" which survives in different versions in the Milan Chansonnier and Chansonnier du Roi."

Comtessa de Dia, "Ab joi et ab joven m'apais" ("I feast off Joy and Youth") on CD titled "Lo Gai Saber: Troubadours and Minstrels 1100-1300," Camerata Mediterranea, Joel Cohen, Director. With Cheryl Ann Fulton, harp; Anne Azema, François Harismendy and Jean-Luc Madier, vocals; Shira Kammen, vielle, rebec and harp; Joel Cohen, lute, cittern, percussion, vocals. With music by Azalais de Porcairages and many others including Raimon d'Avignon, Bernard de Ventadorn, Raimbaut de Vacqueryras. Erato 2292-45647-2 1991.

Comtessa de Dia. "Estat ai en grei cossirier" on CD titled "Tristan & Iseult: A Medieval Romance in Music and Poetry." The Boston Camerata, Joel Cohen, Director. With Anne Azema, Henri Ledroit, Andrea von Ramm, Ellen Hargis, Richard Morrison and William Hite. (Includes Marie de France and others.) Erato 4509-98482-2, 1995.

Comtessa de Dia, Vida (Recitant)-A chantar;"Troubadours" (secular vocal music of the 12th century) Clemencic Consort, Dir. Rene Clemencic; soprano (Pilar Figueras), viele, tympanon, rebebe, tambour. Harmonia Mundi 90396.

Comtessa de Dia, A Chantar, Martin Best -- Medieval Ensemble, "Songs of Chivalry," Nimbus, NIM 5006.


Reference sources:

  • "The Women Troubadours," by Meg Bogin: W.W. Norton & Co., 1980.
  • Modern performance score of "A Chanter m'er" in "Women Making Music: The Western Art Tradition 1150-1950," edited by Jane Bowers and Judith Tick. Urbana: University of Illinois Press, 1986. Illustration: Manuscript illumination by Ende, one of the 10th-11th century illuminators of the Beatus APOCALYPSE of Gerona. She signs herself "dei autrix," God's helper, from Women Artists: Medieval Period



    Also found this:
    CLICK ME!

    A Chantar m'er de so qu'ieu non volria

    “I am obliged to sing of that which I would not,”

    Comtessa de Die


    Comtessa de Die or the Countess of Dia is an aristocratic trobairitz born about 1140.  The Countess is an enigmatic figure, and scholars are unsure of the exact circumstances of her birth and events in her life.  It is thought that she was probably from Die, northeast of Montélimar, came from noble families of the Viennois and Burgundy, and may have been one of a set of twins. Her vida says that she wrote many trobar, but only four poems have survived.  A vida also relates that she was the wife of Guilhèm de Poitiers, and lover of the famous troubadour Raimbaut d’Orange (c. 1146-1173).  She was a friend of the Raimbaut’s sister Tibors (c. 1130-82), the first known trobairitz. 

                Of her extant poems, only A chantar m’er de so qu’ieu non volria, “I am obliged to sing of that which I would not,” contains musical notation.  The poem exists in several different manuscripts, but the melody is found in only one manuscript.  The lyrics are direct, immediate, and have a personal point of view.  In a confident manner, the Countess berates her unfaithful lover and reminds him of her courtly virtues and beauty. 

    There are five strophes or stanzas to the poem, A chantar m’er de so qu’ieu non volria, and the musical setting is strophic.  The form of the music is ABABCDB.  In the Medieval period, the voice as an instrument was held in highest esteem, because it could best portray highly expressive texts like A chantar.  A chantar has several characteristics in common with the troubadour form canso.  The poetry expresses in the view of the first person the theme of an unhappy courtship by using words as amor (love), amia (lover), cortesia (courtesy), and tragida (betrayed).  

    Text translation:

    A chantar m’er de so qu’ieu non volria (verse one)
    “I am obliged to sing of that which I would not,
    So bitter am I over the one whose love I am,
    For I love him more than anything;
    With him mercy and courtliness are of no avail,
    Not my beauty, nor my merit, nor my good sense,
    For I am deceived and betrayed
    Exactly as I should be if I were ungracious. 

    Bella Domna, The Medieval Woman: Lover, Poet, Patroness and Saint by Sinfonye, Hyperion CDA 66283 The Medieval Woman: Lover, Poet, Patroness and SaintHyperion The Medieval Woman: Lover, Poet, Patroness and SaintHyperion The Medieval Woman: Lover, Poet, Patroness and Saint Hyperion

    Stevie Wishart, director
    Mara Kiek, voice
    Stevie Wishart, Medieval fiddle, symphony
    Andrew Lawrence-King, harps
    Jim Denley, percussion


    And this, the best one...Click Quick or it might dissapear. Somebody smarter than I might be able to try to paste the cells....or I could try tomorrow...
    Information copy-pasted from the link cited above.
    -Joe Offer-


  • Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

    Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A chanter m'er
    From: poetlady
    Date: 12 Jul 03 - 02:17 AM

    Thank you ever so much, Sorcha.


    Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

    Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A chanter m'er
    From: Sorcha
    Date: 12 Jul 03 - 02:27 AM

    Hope you found what you are looking for.


    Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

    Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A chanter m'er
    From: Jim Dixon
    Date: 31 Jul 03 - 06:03 AM

    Copied from http://www.uwsp.edu/music/bharbach/classes/AChantar.html (That page also has a sound sample.)
      Comtessa de Die or the Countess of Dia is an aristocratic trobairitz born about 1140....

      Of her extant poems, only A chantar m'er de so qu'ieu non volria, "I am obliged to sing of that which I would not," contains musical notation....
    Copied from http://www.auburn.edu/~bertocr/Chantar.html:
      A CHANTAR M'ER
      (La Comtessa de Dia, fl. late 12th Century;
      Language: French, Dialect: Old Provençal)

      1. A chantar m'er de so qu'eu no volria,
      tant me rancur de lui cui sui amia;
      car eu l'am mais que nuilla ren que sia:
      vas lui no.m val merces ni cortezia
      ni ma beltatz ni mos pretz ni mos sens;
      c'atressi.m sui enganad' e trahia
      Com degr' esser, s'eu fos dezavinens.

      2. D'aisso.m conort, car anc non fi faillensa,
      Amics, vas vos per nuilla captenenssa;
      ans vo am mais non fetz Seguis Valensa,
      e platz mi mout quez eu d'amar vos vensa,
      lo meus amics, car etz lo plus valens;
      mi faitz orgoil en digz et en parvensa,
      et si etz francs vas totas autras gens.

      3. Meraveill me cum vostre cors s'orgoilla,
      amics, vas me, per qui'ai razon queu.m doilla;
      non es ges dreitz c'autr' amors vos mi toilla,
      per nuilla ren que.us diga ni acoilla.
      E membre vos cals fo.l comensamens
      de nostr'amor! Ja Dompnedeus non voilla
      qu'en ma colpa sia.l departimens.

      4. Proeza grans, qu'el vostre cors s'aizina
      e lo rics pretz qu'avetz, m'en ataïna,
      c'una non sai, loindana ni vezina,
      si vol amar, vas vos no si' aclina;
      mas vos, amics, etz ben tant conoissens
      que ben devetz conoisser la plus fina;
      e membre vos de nostres partimens.

      5. Valer mi deu mos pretz e mos paratges
      e ma beutatz e plus mos fins coratges;
      per qu'eu vos man lai on es vostr' estatges
      esta chanson, que me sia messatges:
      e voill saber, lo meus bels amics gens,
      per que vos m'etz tant fers ni tant salvatges;
      no sai si s'es orgoills o mal talens.

      6. Mais aitan plus voill li digas, messatges,
      qu'en trop d'orgoill an gran dan maintas gens.

      I AM OBLIGED TO SING

      1. I must sing of what I do not want,
      I am so angry with the one whom I love,
      Because I love him more than anything:
      Mercy nor courtesy moves him,
      Neither does my beauty, nor my worthiness, nor my good sense,
      For I am deceived and betrayed
      As much as I should be, if I were ugly.

      2. I take comfort because I never did anything wrong,
      Friend, towards you in anything,
      Rather I love you more than Seguin did Valensa,
      And I am greatly pleased that I conquered you in love,
      My friend, because you are the most worthy;
      You are arrogant to me in words and appearance,
      And yet you are so friendly towards everyone else.

      3. I wonder at how you have become so proud,
      Friend, towards me, and I have reason to lament;
      It is not right that another love take you away from me
      No matter what is said or granted to you.
      And remember how it was at the beginning
      Of our love! May Lord God never wish
      That it was my fault for our separation.

      4. The great prowess that dwells in you
      And your noble worth retain me,
      For I do not know of any woman, far or near,
      Who, if she wants to love, would not incline to you;
      But you, friend, have such understanding
      That you can tell the best,
      And I remind you of our sharing.

      5. My worth and my nobility should help me,
      My beauty and my fine heart;
      Therefore, I send this song down to you
      So that it would be my messenger.
      I want to know, my fair and noble friend,
      Why you are so cruel and savage to me;
      I don't know if it is arrogance or ill will.

      6. But I especially want you, messenger, to tell him
      That many people suffer for having too much pride.

      Edited by Frederick Goldin
      Translated by Craig E. Bertolet


    Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

    Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A chanter m'er
    From: Q (Frank Staplin)
    Date: 31 May 04 - 02:11 PM

    I have discovered the Countess of Dia quite late. The Languedoc songs are an important body of old poetry-songs. Finding this thread, I am afraid, is going to put me into the greedy claws of the booksellers once again.

    Sorcha gave one translation of the song "Estat ai en greu cassirier," or "I was plunged into great distress," by the Cindessa de Dia, an extract from the "Song of the Crusade." Here is a translation which, I think, expresses her fantasy more clearly:

    I Was Plunged into Deep Distress

    I was plunged into deep distress
    by a knight who wooed me,
    and I wish to confess for all time
    how passionately I loved him;
    Now I feel myself betrayed,
    for I did not tell him of my love
    therefore I suffer great distress,
    in bed and when I am fully dressed.

    Would that my knight might one night
    lie naked in my arms
    and find myself in ecstasy
    with me as his pillow;
    For I am more in love with him
    than Floris was with Blanchfleur:
    to him I give my heart and love,
    my reason, my eyes and my life.

    Handsome friend, tender and good,
    when will you be mine?
    Oh, to spend with you but one night
    to impart the kiss of love!
    Know that with passion I cherish
    the hope of you in my husband's place,
    as soon as you have sworn to me
    that you will fulfill every wish.

    Estat ai en greu cossirier
    Cindessa de Dia

    Estat ai en greu cossirier
    per un cavalier q'ai agut,
    e voill sia totz temps saubut
    cum eu l'ai amat a sorbrier;
    ara vei q'ieu sui trahida
    car eu non li donei m'amor,
    don ai estat en gran error
    en lieig quand sui vestida.

    Ben volria mon cavalier
    tener un ser e mos bratz nut,
    q'el s'en tengra per erubut
    sol q'a lui fezes cosseiller;
    car plus m'en sui abellida
    no fetz Floris de Blanchaflor:
    eu l'autrei mon cor e m'amor
    mon sen, mos houills e ma vida.

    Bels amics, avinens e bos,
    Cora.us tenrai e mon poder?
    e que jagues ab vos un ser
    e qe.us des un bais amoros!
    Sapchatz, gran talan n'auria
    qe.us tengues en luoc del marit,
    ab so que m'aguessetz plevit
    de far tot so qu'eu voiria.

    The History of the Languedoc: Occitan and Occitania: A Troubadour Song.
    Languedoc


    Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

    Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A chanter m'er
    From: GUEST,Amalia
    Date: 04 Dec 10 - 08:46 PM

    I have to find this song for my itunes really!


    Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

    Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A chanter m'er
    From: Monique
    Date: 05 Dec 10 - 04:23 AM

    YouTube "Estat ai en greu cossirier". There are more songs from her and other troubadours on this YouTube page including "A chantar m'er de so qu'ien non volria".


    Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

    Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A chanter m'er de so q'ieu no volria
    From: GUEST,leeneia
    Date: 17 Feb 11 - 10:04 AM

    This wiki page has notation and an audio file. It's interesting to look at the notation while listening.

    Beatriz


    Observe that the notation doesn't actually reflect the timing of the song. Does anybody know the rules (if any) for interpreting old manuscripts which don't show timing?

    (I may not be back for a while.)


    Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

    Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A chanter m'er de so q'ieu no volria
    From: Janet Elizabeth
    Date: 28 Mar 11 - 09:17 AM

    There's a concert celebrating Beatriz de Dia's music in Brighton - Unsung Heroine: Troubadour Beatriz de Dia - on Sunday 15th May as part of Brighton festival fringe (www.brightonfestivalfringe.org.uk) and produced by BREMF (www.bremf.co.uk).
    If anyone is interested please get in touch. I'll be going!


    Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

    Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A chanter m'er de so q'ieu no volria
    From: Monique
    Date: 28 Mar 11 - 09:48 AM

    Allow me to be pedant, guys: a troubadour is a man, a female troubadour is a "trobairitz" in Occitan, there's no French word for it, it's pronounced "troo-by-reetz" (stressed on the last syllable)


    Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

    Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A chanter m'er de so q'ieu no volria
    From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
    Date: 28 Mar 11 - 01:38 PM

    Comtessa de Dia, Vida (Recitant)-A chantar;"Troubadours" (secular vocal music of the 12th century) Clemencic Consort, Dir. Rene Clemencic; soprano (Pilar Figueras), viele, tympanon, rebebe, tambour. Harmonia Mundi 90396.

    The one and only: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10yf5O4S3hI


    Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

    Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A chanter m'er de so q'ieu no volria
    From: Q (Frank Staplin)
    Date: 28 Mar 11 - 02:02 PM

    In English, troubador is used for both sexes. (OED and Webster's mostly male constructs)


    Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

    Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A chanter m'er de so q'ieu no volria
    From: Jack Campin
    Date: 28 Mar 11 - 02:15 PM

    Does anybody know the rules (if any) for interpreting old manuscripts which don't show timing?

    I can have a go at writing down the more popular interpretations...

    (I may not be back for a while.)

    ...but where can I put it where you'll read it?


    Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
      Share Thread:
    More...

    Reply to Thread
    Subject:  Help
    From:
    Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


    Mudcat time: 25 February 3:18 AM EST

    [ Home ]

    All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.