Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


1960's Australian Folk Albums

alinact 18 Jul 03 - 12:56 AM
Charley Noble 18 Jul 03 - 08:41 AM
cobber 19 Jul 03 - 09:59 AM
alinact 22 Jul 03 - 07:41 PM
Bob Bolton 22 Jul 03 - 10:24 PM
GUEST,Chris/Darwin at Work 23 Jul 03 - 05:29 AM
GUEST 23 Jul 03 - 05:40 AM
Jim McLean 23 Jul 03 - 04:15 PM
Bob Bolton 23 Jul 03 - 08:52 PM
Jim McLean 24 Jul 03 - 07:23 AM
GUEST,Bendigo 24 Jul 03 - 09:40 AM
Bob Bolton 24 Jul 03 - 09:54 AM
GUEST,Margret RoadKnight 24 Jul 03 - 08:35 PM
Bob Bolton 24 Jul 03 - 11:23 PM
GUEST,Margret RoadKnight 25 Jul 03 - 04:08 AM
GUEST,Margret Roadnight 25 Jul 03 - 04:18 AM
GUEST,Lockkeeeper 25 Jul 03 - 05:00 AM
cobber 26 Jul 03 - 07:52 AM
vectis 26 Jul 03 - 07:17 PM
GUEST,Margret RoadKnight 27 Jul 03 - 12:22 AM
Moleskin Joe 27 Jul 03 - 11:55 AM
Bob Bolton 27 Jul 03 - 08:28 PM
GUEST,ricki 27 Jul 03 - 09:42 PM
Hrothgar 28 Jul 03 - 04:56 AM
GUEST,Shimbo Darktree 29 Jul 03 - 02:54 AM
rich-joy 29 Jul 03 - 06:31 AM
Sandra in Sydney 29 Jul 03 - 09:16 AM
vectis 29 Jul 03 - 06:45 PM
rich-joy 30 Jul 03 - 02:40 AM
rich-joy 30 Jul 03 - 05:24 AM
Bob Bolton 30 Jul 03 - 08:50 AM
Sandra in Sydney 30 Jul 03 - 08:56 AM
JennyO 30 Jul 03 - 12:10 PM
Shimbo Darktree 30 Jul 03 - 12:24 PM
GUEST,MargretRoadKnight 30 Jul 03 - 08:21 PM
alinact 30 Jul 03 - 09:05 PM
GUEST 30 Jul 03 - 10:30 PM
alinact 31 Jul 03 - 04:03 AM
rich-joy 31 Jul 03 - 05:26 AM
Bob Bolton 31 Jul 03 - 06:55 AM
Bob Bolton 31 Jul 03 - 06:58 AM
Margret RoadKnight 31 Jul 03 - 08:18 AM
Sandra in Sydney 31 Jul 03 - 08:43 AM
Moleskin Joe 31 Jul 03 - 09:20 AM
Margret RoadKnight 31 Jul 03 - 07:11 PM
DaveA 31 Jul 03 - 08:58 PM
Margret RoadKnight 01 Aug 03 - 01:57 AM
alinact 01 Aug 03 - 02:46 AM
Margret RoadKnight 01 Aug 03 - 09:07 AM
rich-joy 02 Aug 03 - 02:13 AM
Sandra in Sydney 02 Aug 03 - 08:12 AM
JennyO 02 Aug 03 - 09:19 AM
cobber 03 Aug 03 - 08:21 PM
JennieG 04 Aug 03 - 12:57 AM
JennyO 04 Aug 03 - 05:55 AM
DaveA 04 Aug 03 - 06:30 AM
Margret RoadKnight 04 Aug 03 - 09:39 AM
Sandra in Sydney 05 Aug 03 - 09:22 AM
rich-joy 10 Aug 03 - 05:29 AM
Cattail 10 Aug 03 - 08:01 PM
Bob Bolton 27 Aug 03 - 11:12 PM
GUEST,dBranno 28 Aug 03 - 08:21 PM
GUEST,Li'l Aussie Bleeder. 28 Aug 03 - 11:38 PM
Margret RoadKnight 29 Aug 03 - 03:29 AM
Sandra in Sydney 29 Aug 03 - 09:11 AM
cobber 02 Sep 03 - 03:07 AM
GUEST,Chris/Darwin at work 02 Sep 03 - 03:34 AM
GUEST,Hi Dave B From Wngt. 02 Sep 03 - 05:50 AM
Bob Bolton 03 Sep 03 - 12:10 AM
martyn w-r 03 Sep 03 - 06:28 PM
Bill D 03 Sep 03 - 06:39 PM
alinact 04 Sep 03 - 08:56 AM
Sandra in Sydney 04 Sep 03 - 10:32 AM
GUEST,dBranno 09 Sep 03 - 07:11 AM
Bob Bolton 09 Sep 03 - 09:29 PM
Bob Bolton 09 Sep 03 - 11:18 PM
Sandra in Sydney 06 Feb 04 - 09:07 AM
freda underhill 06 Feb 04 - 11:53 PM
Margret RoadKnight 07 Feb 04 - 12:04 AM
Sandra in Sydney 07 Feb 04 - 06:55 AM
rich-joy 07 Feb 04 - 08:54 PM
rich-joy 15 Feb 04 - 02:32 AM
rich-joy 15 Feb 04 - 02:59 AM
Joybell 15 Feb 04 - 07:15 AM
Sandra in Sydney 15 Feb 04 - 07:21 AM
Joybell 15 Feb 04 - 07:35 AM
alinact 18 Feb 04 - 05:32 AM
rich-joy 18 Feb 04 - 07:58 AM
Valda 19 Feb 04 - 01:08 AM
Margret RoadKnight 19 Feb 04 - 02:37 AM
Valda 19 Feb 04 - 03:02 AM
Margret RoadKnight 19 Feb 04 - 08:28 AM
Bob Bolton 19 Feb 04 - 10:07 PM
Valda 21 Feb 04 - 12:49 AM
Bob Bolton 21 Feb 04 - 02:08 AM
Compton 21 Feb 04 - 07:38 PM
Bob Bolton 22 Feb 04 - 08:10 AM
Compton 22 Feb 04 - 06:56 PM
Bob Bolton 22 Feb 04 - 07:41 PM
GUEST,bobjack 23 Feb 04 - 03:35 AM
GUEST,Bryan Sutton 01 Apr 04 - 08:58 AM
Bob Bolton 01 Apr 04 - 08:49 PM
Joybell 02 Apr 04 - 05:44 PM
Bob Bolton 03 Apr 04 - 10:57 AM
GUEST,Gerry 10 Aug 04 - 01:41 AM
Bob Bolton 10 Aug 04 - 02:40 AM
GUEST,Gerry 11 Aug 04 - 01:06 AM
rich-joy 11 Aug 04 - 05:21 AM
Bob Bolton 11 Aug 04 - 07:07 AM
Joybell 12 Aug 04 - 07:50 AM
Phillip 06 Jan 06 - 12:33 PM
Phillip 06 Jan 06 - 02:20 PM
GUEST,John Cass 22 Jun 06 - 03:30 AM
freda underhill 22 Jun 06 - 07:10 AM
Sandra in Sydney 22 Jun 06 - 08:58 AM
freda underhill 22 Jun 06 - 09:15 AM
Sandra in Sydney 23 Jun 06 - 07:33 AM
Margret RoadKnight 23 Jun 06 - 09:22 PM
Phillip 23 Mar 07 - 12:37 PM
Rowan 24 Mar 07 - 01:47 AM
GUEST,Bruce, Sydney. 18 Apr 07 - 06:22 AM
GUEST,Doug Christie 01 Jun 07 - 07:43 PM
GUEST 18 Feb 10 - 05:32 AM
GUEST,Woody in Hughesdale, Melbourne 08 Dec 10 - 02:42 AM
Sandra in Sydney 08 Dec 10 - 06:58 AM
The Doctor 08 Dec 10 - 07:17 AM
GUEST,Contact with Margaret Roadknight 08 Dec 10 - 08:40 AM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:









Subject: 1960's Australian Folk Albums Part 1s
From: alinact
Date: 18 Jul 03 - 12:56 AM

This is a follow-on from this thread .

The records are actually on Score Records and recorded by Peter Mann Recordings, 294 Little Collins Street, Melbourne. I think Peter Mann founded Discurio Records.

The first album is A Wench, a Whale and a Pint of Good Ale (serial number POL 038) and features Martyn Wyndham-Read, Danny Spooner, Gordon MacIntyre and Peter Dickie. The (back) sleeve notes read:

From Burl Ives to Pete Seeger to Bob Dylan, the Australian Folksinging Revival has been a primarily American-orientated phenonemon. The influences of American instrumental techniques, American pop folkies, American "protest" singers, and so on, have all tended to predominate. In relatively recent times, both because of, and in spite of this pervasive American influence, Australian folk music has come into its own, yet all along, the folkmusic of the British Isles (with the possible exception of Ireland) has been under-emphasised to the point of neglect. The Revival audience's acquaintance with British folk music has hardly extended beyond the songs contained in the Sing Out Reprints, or the work of a tiny handful of local and Anglo-Saxon expatriate singers - Brian Mooney, Paul Marks, Martyn Wyndham-Read, Declan Affley, Brisbane's "Wayfarers" and a couple more. Knowledge of British contemporary song writing, other than the Lennon - McCartney variety, seems to have been confined to the MacColl - Seeger "New Britain Gazette" records on Folkways.

This record, then, is intended as a change, in that, while not a consciously representative selection, it provides some idea of the richness and variety of British folk music.

There are songs of love and songs of booze and a Child Ballad of an ever topical theme. There are songs of the sea, both the working shanties and the forebitters or foc'sle songs of the off-duty hours. And there are songs, contemporary in content, more taditional in style and structure, which have been produced by the British Revival - the work of songwriters such as MacColl, Dominic Behan, Matt McGinn, Stan Kelly, Leon Rosselson, Sydney Carter and so on, represented here by Cyril Tawney and Ian Campbell.

All that's really missing is a "big ballad" and a touch of bawdry, but that's excuse enough for another record.

THE SINGERS

Martyn Wyndham-Read: Originally from Sussex, has become one of the most popular folk-singers in the country over the last 4-5 years. A regular performer at Frank Traynor's (Melbourne), he has appeared on radio and T.V., at folk concerts and at numerous folksong coffee lounges. As well as being a fine performer of English and Scottish folksongs, Martyn has become a highly regarded interpreter of Australian material, and is currently working on his second L.P. composed entirely of Australian traditional songs.

Danny Spooner: A Londoner by birth, has been in Australia for 3 years. Before this he worked on a whaler (when many of the sea songs, for which he is noted, were learned) as a deep sea salvage tug skipper and as a lumberjack. He now sings regularly at folk places and in concerts in Melbourne, and in the last few months has teamed up with Gordon.

Gordon McIntyre: From Glasgow, first came to Australia some 6 years ago. In 1963 he returned to Scotland, travelled through Europe, became a professional folksinger and arrived back here at the beginning of this year. He has a wide repertoire of traditional and modern songs of the British Isles and is an accomplished guitarist.

The merit of the performances on this recordis that the singers do not impose themselves on the songs, wrenching them out of shape to suit styles which have no relation to traditional music as so many others have done; rather they let the songs speak for themselves. The singing is strong, sensitive, vigorous, meditative - whatever the song dictates. Where instrumental accompanimentis needed it is used with discretion, and never displayed for its own sake. All in all these three performers reflect the influence of traditional singers and their own respect for traditional music without being pedantic in a rigid adherence to particular traditional singing practices ( for example, their use of harmony in the shanties whereas this seems to have been the exception rather than the rule among all but negro seamen). For, as A.L.Lloyd has commented, "a tradition that remains fixed and does not evolve becomes atrophied". What must be achieved, is an extension to the tradition from within its own (somewhat nebulous) boundaries. In this process of internal revitalisation singers such as Danny Spooner, Gordon McIntyre and Martin Wyndham-Read, play a vital role indeed.

SIDE ONE

1. The Farmer's Boy (4.09): A great favourite of Martyn's and once described by the collector Baring Gould as "One of the most popular and widely known folk songs in England".

2. The Apprentice Song (2.33): A modern industrial song by Ian Campbell, leader of Britain's foremost folk group. Sung by Martyn.

3. The Miller and the Maid (2.05): Gordon put the tune to a text collected by Cecil Sharp and printed in James Reeves' "The Idiom of the People". It is a good example of what Reeves has called the "lingua Franca", the colloquial sexual symbolism of the English countryside.

4. Er Fa La La Lo (3.20): A traditional Irish song with the message of a protest song written yesterday.

5. The Devil and the Ploughman (2.31): The theme of the nagging wife who proves too troublesome for the Devil, is certainly a popular one, being widespread in European, North American and even Indian folklore. Martyn's version is the common Sussex one of the song better known as "The Farmer's Curst Wife" (Child 279).

6. Greenland Whale Fishery (3.52): Otherwise known as "The Spermwhale Fishery", this is the classic forebitter of the British whalers. It is much older than the date given here, broadside versions going back to 1725.

7. The Hog's-Eye Man (1.50): "The words of this shanty being of the vilest are not fit to print" (Frederick Harlow). A common complaint but this capstain shanty, probably of negro origin, seems to have been particularly colourful. Hogs-eyes were barges used on the Californian coast during the rushes of '49. Danny is the shantyman.

8. Ale Ale Glorious Ale (1.46): A drinking song from the south of England, led by Martyn, and sung with obvious relish by all three.

SIDE TWO

1. Banks of the Roses (4.14): An Irish traditional ballad sung by Martyn. Colin O'Lochlainn ("Irish Street Ballads") prints a version learned from his mother.

2. I Drew My Ship (2.35): First collected in the north of England by John Stockoe. Probably a fragment.

3. The Nightingale (3.03): Apparently a West Country song, it was first printed in Bell's "Ballads and Songs of the Peasantry of England" (1857). Birds are often of symbolic importance in folksong (e.g. Child notes that the nightingale was sometimes regarded as a relayer of messages between separated lovers).

4. Whip Jamboree (3.32): A capstain or windlass shanty, this was mainly popular as a homewardbound song. Some experts give it a negro origin, others detect an Eastern influence. Anyway, its an exciting, if somewhat expurgated, song. Peter Dickie weighs in on the chorus.

5. The Oggy Man (No More) (2.42): Written by a fine West Country folk singer, Cyril Tawney. Peter Kennedy comments "This song laments the passing of a local institution, the oggy man (seller of Cornish pasties) who were driven out by hot dog stands about 1950, and also serves as a warning to sailors that those things they may take for granted when they leave port may not be the same when they return">

6. Coast of Peru (3.47): A favourite song of the whalers who rounded the Horn into the South Pacific, a run considered more dangerous and less rewarding than those in northern waters.

7. Ay Waukin Oh (2.53): Martyn sings this beautiful traditional Scottish song. The title is Gaelic for "Ever Awake".

8. Farewell to Tarwathie (3.25): Written about the middle of the last century by a Scot, George Scroggie, this song, gentle and reflective but tinged with bitterness, is one of the most beautiful of all sea songs.

MICK COUNIHAN 1966



I'll do the other two albums, Bullockies, Bushwackers & Booze and Soldiers and Sailors in the near future.

Hope these are of some interest.

Allan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Jul 03 - 08:41 AM

Nice to see these notes posted, Allan. I didn't realize that Danny Spooner was hard at work singing back then.

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: cobber
Date: 19 Jul 03 - 09:59 AM

Oh the memories that cover note evokes. I used to "live" at Frank Traynors when these guys were playing there. Being around five years younger, I idolised them and learnt an enormous amount from them about how to present a song so that the audience took ownership of it and wanted to sing along. Traynors on those days had regular singer's nights. By that I mean Mondays would be Declan Affley (now there was an artist, Tuseday would be someone else etc. This made it hard for new singers to get on, though there were often floor spots. There was a back lane behind the old Traynors (as distinct from the new one that they moved to a few doors up the road around 1970 (I think). In the summer it got incredibly hot and smoky in there and the windows would be open to the street. I remember one night, Danny and Gordon were doing their usual session and a group of idiots passing along the lane started cat-calling and being pretty offensive. Danny and Gordon put down their guitars, went out the back and gave these blokes a lesson in manners, then came back and continued playing as if nothing was amiss. Apart from the music, which was Folk till midnight then jazz, Traynors was famous for brewing the worst coffee in Melbourne. They simply threw a packet of ground coffee into a big cauldron of water and boiled it all night. You could drink it if you added whisky, but you got thrown out if you were caught, though looking back, they must have been pretty tolerant as the smell of our clandestine flasks must have filled the place. I digitised my copy of Soldiers and Sailors last year. It was pretty well worn and it took me hours to get the worst of the scratches out with Cool Edit. It was a work of love though and that album still sounds good.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: alinact
Date: 22 Jul 03 - 07:41 PM

Good to know that there are still copies of these records out there, cobber, but I will still continue the exercise for those that don't know them.

The next album is called Bullockies, Bushwackers & Booze (POL 039) and features Martyn Wyndham-Read, Phyl Vinnicombe and Peter Dickie with a bush band consisting of Jim Buchanan (Lagerphone), Bert Cameron (Mouth Organ), Peter Dickie (Guitar) and David Lumsden (Banjo).

The back cover sleeve notes read:

SIDE ONE

1. REEDY RIVER (5.08) The words of Reedy River are by Henry Lawson, and the tune by Sydney singer, Chris Kempster. 'Reedy River' was the central song around which was based the now famous Australian musical of the same name.

2. THE OVERLANDERS (2.50) The version here is similar to the one published in the 'Queensland New Colonial Campfire Songbook' issued in 1865. The melody is a relative of one used in England for a ballad about the highway man Dick Turpin.

3. ANDY'S GONE WITH CATTLE (2.09) The words are by poet Henry Lawson. They describe a woman's concern which was not unfamiliar in the early days of Australian history; the worry brought about by the husband leaving wife and family to find work droving cattle.

4.EUABALONG BALL (1.45) This is a more working-class version of a genteel song of the late 19th century, 'The Woyoo Ball'. Comparison between the last two lines of the last stanza and the version sung here indicates the change of tone wrought by its descent down the social ladder:

'And many there will be who will love to recall
the fun they had at the Woyoo ball'.

The English singer and folk collector, A.L. Lloyd, seems to have collected the only version of this song while working on the stations along the Lachlan River in the 1920's and '30's.

5. ONE OF THE HAS-BEEN"S (1.51) This song tells the story of an old bloke who is certainly not shearing as fast as he used to, but is accepting the passing of the years gracefully. The tune will be easily recognised as 'Pretty Polly Perkins from Paddington Green'.

6. WILD ROVER (3.25) Originally a 19th century British broadside, 'Wild Rover' was presumably brought to Australia by sailors, where it enjoyed wide currency among bush workers. Banjo Patterson was first to print a bush version in the 1924 edition of 'Old Bush Songs'.

7. YE SONS OF AUSTRALIA (3.55) This song is published in 'Songs from the Kelly Country', and a much longer version (16 verses) is found in John Manifold's 'Penguin Australian Song Book', although some verses in this version are a bit hard to take, likening Kelly's sister to an Amazon queen and the Kelly gang to the free sons of Ishmael!

8. MARYBOROUGH MINER (3.55) Again, A.L. Lloyd has noted the only version of this song known to folklorists. 'The Murrumbidgee Shearer', printed by Banjo Patterson, contains some almost identical verses. However, the more stagey touches (perhaps by Patterson himself?) in 'The Murrumbidgee Shearer' contrast with the vigorous Irish 'Come-All-Ye' style of the 'Maryborough Miner'. Some definitions may be of help:

'Longtomming, cradling, puddling, panning': different ways of washing gold from soil.
'On the cross': in defiance of the law, the opposite to 'on the square'.
'Patent Pill Machine': a revolver.
'Cockatoo': the prison - no longer in existence - on Cockatoo Island, Sydney, N.S.W.

SIDE TWO

1. CLICK GO THE SHEARS (3.45) Along with 'Waltzing Matilda' is Australia's best known song, telling of the rigours and hardships of the shearer's life both in the shed and at the end of the season. The tune is also known as 'Ring the Bell, Watchman', and another version of this song has been collected and sung by A.L.Lloyd.

2. THE WILD COLONIAL BOY (3.06) This most popular song has had many versions collected throughout Australia. It replaced another bushranger ballad 'Bold Jack Donohue' as being the most widely and enthusiastically sung bush folk ballad, and at the time (1840's-50's) was most subversive of respect for authority and the rights of property.

3. O'MEALLY'S SHANTY (2.20) 'O'Meally's Shanty' was written by Kenneth Cook, of the A.B.C. in Sydney. It is based on the fact that O'Meally's shanty was the meeting place for the Lachlan bushrangers. His daughter, Kate, was a friend of Ben Hall.

4. PUT A LIGHT IN EVERY COUNTRY WINDOW (2.38) Written by Don Henderson, probably our best known singer-songwriter of topical songs, after a trip through the great Snowy Mountain Hydro-Electric Scheme. Although particularly known for his more political songs, 'Put a Light' is certainly one of his most popular compositions.

5. 'ARD TACK (3.44) 'Ard Tack was recorded at the home of Mr. Jack Davies, a pioneer soldier-settler of the Leeton District on the Murrumbidgee. He says he didn't write it, but distinctly remembers being sober the day it was written. A song any shearer would relish, particularly on that section of the Murrumbidgee where grapes and sheep are grown side by side.

6. LAZY HARRY'S (2.55) A rollicking song telling of what normally happened to a bush worker who spent long periods in the bush, then came to town to 'live-it-up'. In this song the destination was Sydney, but they never got past Lazy Harry's or the barmaids at Gundagai.

7. BALLAD OF BEN HALL'S GANG (2.56) Of all bushrangers, Ben Hall seems to come closest to the Robin Hood folk-hero ideal. Ben Hall was the good man wronged, driven by police persecution and personal hardships to outlawry, but still conducting himself with a minimum of violence and a maximum of chivalry. The songs containing his exploits are collectively the most attractive of our bushranger ballads.

8. WALTZING MATILDA (2.45) The contoversy over the origins of this song (whether Paterson did in fact write the words, or whether the tune is an imperfect version 'The Bonny Wood of Craigilea') has been revived recently by the publication of Oscar Mendolsohn's book 'Waltzing Matilda'. However, the song's popularity remains similarly undiminished, and it is undoubtedly the best known of all Australian songs.

PETER DICKIE
MICK COUNIHAN
1967

I think that the best thing about Australian songs is their simplicity. There is no real originality in them - mostly the tunes are borrowed, and on some occasions even the words are. But the songs which are wholly Australian seem to fit the words just as simply as the words fit the tune, which I feel is the basis of folk music. Essentially it is the words which are the important thing, not the tune. Perhaps one of the best examples of this is out of a song about Ned Kelly entitled 'The Battle of Stringybark Creek', where there is one particular line that goes:

'But he never saw the Kellys, planted safe behind a log,
so he sauntered back to yarnand smoke and wire into the prog'

When I first saw this word 'prog' it appeared to me rather an incredible word, and I felt that the only reason it was there was because the bloke who wrote it couldn't think of anything else to rhyme with 'grog', and I'm sure that's the way some Australian words got into usage. The reason I believe love songs are lacking in Australia is that the period when these songs were evolved was during the gold rushes, and the gold fields were certainly no place for a genteel lady. Most blokes left their wives behind, so the only women who were around at that time were the camp followers who were more intersted in the nugget than the man.

The songs that we have got together on this record are some that we enjoy doing. They range through shearing, bushranging, droving, contemporary activities. Without the Bush Band these songs would be perhaps a bit weak and inaudible. The majority of shearing songs were sung with a tremendous of gusto in extremely high keys and at the top of the singers' lungs; the bushranging songs were sung with as much defiance as was feasible; the droving songs with as much clippity-clop as the performers were capable of. I'd like to mention just two songs that Jim Sings: 'Click Go the Shears' and 'Waltzing Matilda'. The former we always have much enjoyment in performing as Jim is so enthusiastic it is contagious, and the latter we also get a great deal of fun from.

MARTYN WYNDHAM-READ

Allan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 22 Jul 03 - 10:24 PM

G'day Allan,

Keep up the good work. It's great to have the full texts on these records - especially as I sometimes manage to get cassette copies of LPs I'm unlikely to ever find ... and there's never much beyond a title scrawled on the cassette cover!

Interesting to see that it was Martyn that started the much-repeated "furphy" about prog being a word invented, merely to maintain the rhyme. He obviously didn't bring an OED - or even a Shorter Oxford Dictionary in his swag ... and, being from the southern end of the Old Dart, didn't know much northern English. (I found myself, an Australian working on the Tasmanian and Snowy Mts Hydro Schemes in the '60s, having to "translate" between Poms from different ends of England!)

Anyway, prog is good old English word left by the Vikings in the Danelaw regions ... ~ 9th century north-east England ... a worn-down version of their word meaning forage or provender. It also occurs in The Bullockies' Ball, in the chorus:
"... Lots of prog and buckets of grog, to swig away at the bullockies' ball."

Since The Bullockies' Ball draws its tune and general shape from Finnegan's Wake, it may be that the word prog was still in use amongst the Irish, who lived a lot closer to Scandinavian sailors than Pommy landlubbers ... and the appearance of the word in a Kelly ballad seems to suggest the same.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Chris/Darwin at Work
Date: 23 Jul 03 - 05:29 AM

Memories, memories!

I also haunted Traynors back in the early 60s. My sister worked for Don Carloss, the big bloke that used to run it, and I found myself working on the door at the grand age of 17. That place started my interest in folk music. I collected a copy of Bullockies, Bushwackers and Booze, and also have a copy of Brian Mooney's album. David Lumsden's banjo playing sparked my interest in the instrument. One night the Seekers wandered in...

I took a lot of photos by candle light of Martyn, Brian and many others, using high speed B&W film - I still have those photos somewhere...

Regards
Chris


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jul 03 - 05:40 AM

Nice bit of info. on here!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Jim McLean
Date: 23 Jul 03 - 04:15 PM

Side Two: Track 7:(Alinact) Ay Waukin Oh 'Martin sings this beautiful tradional Scottish song....' The title is Gaelic for 'Ever Awake'!!!!!!
Who researched this? Ay Waukin Oh is Scotiish English for 'Always Wakened Oh' .... as the song says '... sleep I can get nane'.
I don't believe it!
Jim Mclean


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 23 Jul 03 - 08:52 PM

G'day Jim McLean,

I'm presuming that all the actual notes given by alinact are direct OCR scans / exact typing up of what is printed on the LP sleeve ... or an insert. If that is so, you'll have to blame Mick Counihan, whose name appears at the bottom ... not Allan. Presumably, Mick was not a schooled in Irish Gaelic as kids in Ireland are today ... and the tendency of Anglophones to confuse 'Braid Scots' with Scots Gaelic was all too common back then.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Jim McLean
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 07:23 AM

Hi Bob,
I wasn't blaming Allan, only the sleeve notes' writer. I wonder how the singer felt to be told he was singing in Gaelic?
Slainte,
Jim Mclean


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Bendigo
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 09:40 AM

Hi...I've been trying for a long time to locate a copy of A.L.Lloyds "Outback Ballads" Topic 12T51 Could anyone help me/direct me ? Or perhaps do me a tape ?
         Any help would be gratefully accepted.
                         Regards    Robin


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 09:54 AM

G'day Bendigo,

Back when Warren Fahey still had Larrikin Records, he re-released some of the Lloyd canon on CD ... it's a bit late to find it now (I turn into pumpkin if I don't get of the 'net by midnight ... 6½ minutes hence!

I'll see what I have ... but Festival, who bought Larrikin have dropped all the folk stuff now ... so finding it would be a problem anyway ... ?

Regards,

Bob Bolton


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Margret RoadKnight
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 08:35 PM

Great to read these mentions & reminiscences of the 'early' Melbourne folk scene, especially of TRAYNORS (which ended up being the longest running 7-nights-a-week folk club in the world, BTW).
My first album was recorded there ("People Get Ready", '73) and that, strangely, turns out to be the only album ever recorded at the venue.
And my next (MOVING TARGET..>>>>harder to hit", released next month) contains a photo of me performing with Frank Traynor's Jazz Preachers (which used to take over from the folk sngers after midnight on Saturdays) and a dedication to Frank..... "the first to link my folk singing with jazz and blues, and to explain the mathematical magic of music to me".
More background, etc, on my website -
http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~margretr
I can be emailed from there if folk from 'those days' want to make contact.
Cheers & thanks
Margret RoadKnight (now living in Brisbane)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 11:23 PM

G'day Margret,

Ah yes ... lovely albums! I'll have to go and get the real vinyl item off the record shelf ... and dust it off so I can check the photo at Traynors. I've mostly been listening to cassette dubs, in the car, when I need a serious distraction from the surrounding reality!

I guess it's too much to expect all your prolific early recordings to ever turn up on pretty little CDs ...?

BTW: Did I ever get the chance to show you the black & white photos of yourself, from the two major concerts in Adelaide ... (Australian) National Folk Festival, 1971? (I have some faint memory of waving them at you at a mid-late '90s National in Canberra ... possibly the one with Ade Monsborough ... ?)

Regards,

Bob Bolton


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Margret RoadKnight
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 04:08 AM

G'day Bob - Good to hear from you.

I'd sorta forgotten that the portrait cover shot on that first album -alas only available on cassette now - was also taken at Traynors (though posed for in an upstairs room).
Pleased to report that 18 tracks from the following 4 albums were released recently on CD ("Silver Platter - The Collection '75-'84") when Festival Records finally dipped back into their archives.
No, I don't recall seeing those early B&W pics of yours .... when I come across my colour snaps from the last National Festival, there'll be one of you & I with Margaret Fagan.... perhaps we can arrange a swap (I'll need your address).

And apropos of 'early Melbourne folk luminaries', apparently yesterday's (Thurs) Australian newspaper had a Glen Tomasetti obituary.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Margret Roadnight
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 04:18 AM

Greetings also to Guest Chris (Darwin).
I'd love to think there was a also possibility of seeing your B&W photos from Traynors..... I'm doing an around Australia singing tour next year - maybe you'll still be in Darwin, and have found those pics by then.......
Cheers, Margret


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Lockkeeeper
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 05:00 AM

Very interesting to read these things about the Australian Folk Scene and clubs. Were the Seekers a part of the scene then or had they already crossed over to pop?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: cobber
Date: 26 Jul 03 - 07:52 AM

Hi Lockkeeper,
As I remember it, there was almost a two tier sort of folk scene around Melbourne with the "hard-core" folkies centred around Traynors where they sang a lot of English, Irish and Scottish songs plus some blues or at the Bush Music Club where the music was either Australian or the English, etc. songs that had been collected here. Then out in the suburbs there were lots of little coffee lounges where you were more likely to hear "pop" folk. Also in this category were the church youth clubs that ran folk nights. These were good places for younger musicians (like myself) to practice their art but they would also often hire the top line artists and fill the bill with locals so there was a lot of cross over. If I remember rightly, the Seekers played at a coffee lounge in Toorak called the treble clef (where they met Judith Durham) and took off after that. Mind you as the marbles get shaken around with age, this could all be a load of old cobblers so correct me if you like.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: vectis
Date: 26 Jul 03 - 07:17 PM

I still have one of Chad Morgan's records here in Sussex. The Shiek of Scrubby Creek.....
Great fun. Is he still with us BTW???


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Margret RoadKnight
Date: 27 Jul 03 - 12:22 AM

Well, there were The Seekers, and The Seekers....
Originally just the 3 guys, then Judith joined them (for a while they were known as Judith Durham & The Seekers), then again just by their original name....
I recall being one of only 12 people in the audience (matching the number of performers on stage, BTW) at what was their final Austraian concert - Emerald hill Theatre, South Melbourne - before they sailed off to England in hopes of making it big....
And almost 40 years ago replacing Bruce Woodley at The Reata in Prahran to score my first 'residency', not to mention replacing Judith Durham as the vocalist with Frank Traynor's Jazz Preachers....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Moleskin Joe
Date: 27 Jul 03 - 11:55 AM

Sorry to but in on the nostalgia but I have a couple of LP's by someone called Lionel Long. The sleeve notes claim him as Australia's foremost folksinger. I rather think not though there are plenty of interesting songs. Can anyone date these records and say what became of him.
Cheers.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 27 Jul 03 - 08:28 PM

G'day Moleskin Joe,

I think Lionel Long appeared at the height of the "Folk Boom". I remember my Dad buying some of his LPs in the early '60s. He was always aiming (or being aimed by the recording companies) towards a more "commercial" style of presentation and arrangement. He did include a few interesting versions and variants - and published a song book based on his LPs ... but he got a long-running role as a detective in an Australian 'Cops & Robber" TV show called Homicide and faded from the music scene.

I have a CD re-release of his material - more for the interest than the pleasure. I did hear that he died, a few years back.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,ricki
Date: 27 Jul 03 - 09:42 PM

Hi vectis,
Well yes, Chad Morgan is still around. Each year he performs at the tamworth country music festival, and a few years ago he did a small scale tour around some country pubs down south, where I was lucky enough to catch him in concert. There was a compilation 3CD set released last year, called "The Singles Collection: Regal Zonophone and Beyond", with 65 songs, and at least two albums of new material were released in the 90s. One is called "Been Then, Done That, Gonna Do it Again", but I can't remember the other.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Hrothgar
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 04:56 AM

Lionel Long also put out a book, in conjunction with Graham Jenkin, called "Favourite Australian Bush Songs" - published by Rigby in paperback in 1964. ISBN 0 7270 1426 9.

I have a spare copy if anybody wants it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Shimbo Darktree
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 02:54 AM

Yes, Hrothgar, I'll take you up on that. What other spare books have you got? I'll talk to you at the Kookaburra (or Maleny), while you go nuts trying to figure out who "Shimbo" is.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: rich-joy
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 06:31 AM

The Melbourne(?) record company "Viscious Sloth" are working on a re-release this year (hopefully) of a rare and sought-after EXTRADITION LP from late 60s/early 70s - the data regarding this recording that I THOUGHT I had at my fingertips on the 'puter, has tonight eluded me - but I MUST have the hardcopy data SOMEwhere!!
When I find it, I'll post it ...
(Can't recall at this moment though, whether or not the recording will include Colin Dryden, but has of course Shayna Karlin and Colin Campbell and others ...)

Re Lionel Long - I do remember that me Mum and I used to like the setting of Leon Gellert's poem "Anzac Cove" that he did ... and "Reedy Lagoon" was quite pleasant (in a 60s kinda way!!)

Re A.L.Lloyd query - I was able to purchase "The Old Bush Songs" on CD by Larrikin, from a storefront music shop about 18 months ago, if that's anything to go by ...

Cheers!
R-J


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 09:16 AM

Rich-Joy

I have the vinyl Extradition beside me - I got it out of it's (fake) milk crate a couple of weeks ago when I was reading the notes for the National 35th anniversary double CD! NOw all I have to do is find the CD under the pile of useful stuff. Not easy with a splitting headache, but I did manage to find it.

Track 6, Extradition - Honeychild, (lineup includes Colin Dryden). Notes mentioned that the later lineup (excluding this Colin) produced one album & I realised I owned it & could replace it with a shiny new CD. I have the contact details for Viscious Sloth stuck on my phone at work & really must contact them. What a great name for a recording company.

sandra (who never heard Extradition live, just bought the record second hand for $2 from Lawson's)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: vectis
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 06:45 PM

Nice to hear that Chad is still treading the boards.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: rich-joy
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 02:40 AM

Sandra! DON'T "replace" your EXTRADITION LP record, unless you're hard of cash, that is - apparently it's worth big bucks!!!
I still haven't found my data, but I'll look tonight ...

BTW, I wonder if anyone ever put together a compilation of Colin Dryden songs (other legends like Declan Affley and Harry Robertson and Don Henderson all have recordings - and even Dave Alexander!!!).
Maybe there just weren't enough captured of him "straight"!!
I guess Marg Walters may know, as she was helping an O/S Rellie gather history on Colin a few years back ...
Maybe some 'catter will enlighten me, eh?!

Cheers!
R-J


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: rich-joy
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 05:24 AM

Found It!!
a record review of EXTRADITION's "Hush" (1971 on Sweet Peach) on the Camera Obscura website by one Tony Dale, mentions that this recording is more appreciated overseas than at home and garage sale copies have sold for at least $1500!!!

For info on Extradition and Tully, checkout :
http://www.borderlinebooks.com/australia/
and
http://www.geocities.com/domnei.geo


Sorry to go all acid-folky on this thread!!
PLEASE continue with the recollections of the 60s (and early 70s) in Oz and detailing the early recordings - it is of great interest to many of us!!!

Cheers! R-J


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 08:50 AM

G'day R-J,

Down at this year's NFF I bought, from Dave Brannigan ([03] 9762 2453) a CD of (mostly) gig/session recordins of Declan Affley - made up as a CD-R. I gather that Colin Dryden is the next in line for the same sort of CD-R ... but you would have to check that out with Dave.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 08:56 AM

Rich-Joy - I wasn't planning to get rid of the vinyl, it's too beautiful. Replace = buying CD versions of stuff I own & I've been doing that for years now. I don't have many records (about a dozen, maybe 20) & can't play them anymore. Some I have on tapes, some originals, others copied yonks ago on cheap Sony tapes but still usable, but I rarely play 'em.

Then I read your second post & wished I had lots more records as they might have funded my retirement. Some time back I read an article on Baby Boomers & learnt I'm going to be one of the Boomers living in genteel poverty. Some folks own zillions of records ... I hope I'll be able to afford the National & Jamberoo & the occasional CD.

The makers of the Declan Afflay CD are apparently going to make others, including I think Colin Dryden. Ask Bob Bolton for more info as he has a better memory than me & knows lots of useful stuff

sandra


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: JennyO
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 12:10 PM

Gee I'd better go and look at my records and see what I've got! What a shame I just gave back a whole crate of records to a certain person!

Jenny


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Shimbo Darktree
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 12:24 PM

Goodness gracious, all that money! I've got Lenore Somerset, Patsy Biscoe, Alex Hood, Bob Hudson (without doing a comprehensive check)... makes me think I should pass them on to Christies to auction, before the artists re-record on CD. After all, Margret RoadKnight has been re-recording (haven't you Margret?), and the results are excellent, with extra numbers and often a live concert as bonuses (no, the concerts are not free bonuses ... just bonuses). Speaking of which, if you are in or around Brisbane on 13 August, Margret has a live concert launch of a CD ... go to her web site (which she gives earlier in this thread), and contact her.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,MargretRoadKnight
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 08:21 PM

Hi Shimbo Darktree (whoever you are - great alias) and thanks for the mention.
Yes, I've got a CD launch/ concert (and 60th birthday celebration!) on Wed 13 August (a public holiday here in Brisbane) at the 280-seater Judith Wright Centre in The Valley, at the baby boomers' civilized hour of 7pm.
[For more info anyone can email me - margretr@ihug.com.au ]
As for the CD contents : 12 tracks were released on LP back in '87, and the 4 bonus songs mean the expanded line-up now includes the late Chicago pianist Little Brother Montgomery, UK guitar hero Bert Jansch, Latin band Papalote, and amazing singers Judy Jacques & Jeannie Lewis, amongst others......
Speaking of great Australian performers from 'those days'.... I particularly cherish my copy of the Extradition album (signed by Shayna Stewart/ Karlin), because my favourite male Oz singer Graham Lowndes guests on Colin Campbell's atmospheric composition "Ice". (I loved it so much it became the title song of my '78 LP, and that version is once again out there on a compilation CD)
Graham Lowndes, BTW, now lives in Fremantle, and despite health problems, is still singing brilliantly, though only sparcely represented on CD - unnamed Band of Angels 2nd lead on ABC Music's "Black Gospel Down Under", and his wonderful 1969 version of Black Jack Gypsy on "The National..35 years of the National Folk Festival"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: alinact
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 09:05 PM

Great to see Margaret Roadknight dropping in here. I first saw Margaret at one of those suburban coffee lounges cobber mentioned, the Green Man, located in Toorak Road, Malvern (I think).

Anyway, the third record is:

FOLKSINGERS OF AUSTRALIA SERIES, VOLUME TWO

SOLDIERS AND SAILORS (POL. 041)

SHAYNA KARLIN - from Brisbane "A Brisbane Lady"

GORDON McINTYRE - from Glasgow "Highly thought-of Scottish Round Singer"

DANNY SPOONER - from London "Singer and teller of Naughtical Yarns"

MIKE BALL - from Bath "The last of the steam-concertina players"

SIDE ONE

1. PEGGY AND THE SOLDIER. (Trad.) 2.05
   Shayna, Danny and Gordon - Unaccompanied.

2. THE RAMBLING SOLDIER. (Trad.) 3.00
   Danny, accompanied by Mike - concertina.

3. FOLLOW ME UP TO CARLOW. (P.J.McCall) 1.45
   Danny and Gordon - unaccompanied.

4. THE DESERTER. (Trad.) 2.40
   Shayna, Danny and Gordon - unaccompanied.

5. ALL THINGS ARE QUITE SILENT. (Trad.) 3.05
   Shayna, accompanied by Mike - concertina.

6. THE CUTTY WREN. (Trad.) 2.25
   Danny and Gordon - unaccompanied.

7. BRAVE WOLFE. (Trad.) 4.05
   Gordon - vocal and dulcimer.

8. SUCH A PARCEL OF ROGUES IN A NATION. (Robert Burns.) 3.05
   Gordon - vocal and guitar.

SIDE TWO

1. NORTH SEA HOLES. (Ewan McColl.) 2.15
   Danny and Gordon - guitar accompaniment.

2. THE FEMALE RAMBLING SAILOR. (Trad.) 3.25
   Shayna, accompanied by Mike - concertina.

3. ADMIRAL BENBOW. (Trad.) 3.15
   Danny - vocal and guitar.

4. THE GOLDEN VANITY. (Trad.) 3.25
   Gordon, accompanied by Mike - concertina.

5. THE SAILOR DECEIVED. (Trad.) 2.00
   Danny - unaccompanied.

6. MY DONALD. (Owen Hand.) 2.40
   Shayna, accompanied by Gordon - dulcimer.

7. SALLY FREE AND EASY. (Cyril Tawney.) 2.50
   Danny and Gordon - guitar accompaniment.

PEGGY AND THE SOLDIER - Martin Carthy says of this song: The unfaithful wife going off to sea with her lover, deserting husband and child, is a common enough subject for ballads, witness the House Carpenter; but the clarity with regard to the state of mind of the characters, missing in many variations on the theme, is crystal clear throughout this particular one. It is uncommon in this form, having been reported from tradition only a couple of times and printed in the Journal of the Folksong Society (EFDSS) in 1930 (No. 34).

THE RAMBLING SOLDIER - This version was collected by Gardiner from George Digweed of Hampshire (1904). Although Parliament never passed an act stopping the use of press-gangs in England the practice gradually faded out, and the "Recruiting Sargeant" with his "gift" of the "King's or Queen's Shilling", became once more the method of acquiring men for the Services. Looking very resplendent in his uniform he would roam the countryside telling fine tales of adventure and great deeds with the object of enticing the young men to enlist. However, it seems in this song at least his job wasn't "all work and no play". Mike's accompaniment to this boastful song is appropriately playful.

FOLLOW ME UP TO CARLOW - The words of this stirring song of battle were written by P.J. McCall, describing the great victory over the English by the Irish at Glenmalure in the late 16th Century. It is said the tune was first played by the pipers of Feagh MacHugh O'Byrne, the hero of the battle, who then led his army against Carlow.

THE DESERTER - The constant wars between England and France during the 18th Century caused the supply of new recruits into the British army to be of prime importance. A law was passed empowering officers of the King to take men (under press warrant) from almost any walk of life to serve in the field or on board one of His Majesty's ships. This song, full of pathos, dates probably to the mid-1700's and tells of a young man who suffered such a fate and of his attempts to desert.

ALL THINGS ARE QUITE SILENT - Appalling conditions on board ships of the "king's Navee" in the 18th and early 19th Centuries meant plenty of work for the men of the press-gangs. After having raised as many recruits as possible by posting patriotic bills in the market towns around the seaport, the captains of the ships of the line would send out press-gangs to search the courts, the streets and the inns. If these methods brought in insufficient numbers they would not stop short of dragging a man from his marriage bed. The haunting first verse, where the press-gang breaks in on a scene of idyllic peace and tranquility, recalls the more familiar ballad "The Lowlands of Holland". But the stoic dignity of the wife in this song is in marked contrast to the violent grief of the other girl. The song has been collected only once in British tradition, by R. Vaughan-Williams in Sussex in 1904. The concertina here emulates the effect achieved by the medieval portative-organ used to accompany British folk singer, Shirley Collins.

THE CUTTY WREN - Dating from the 14th Century, this song was almost certainly a magical or totem song. In the opinion of A.L.Lloyd it took on a strong revolutionary meaning during the peasants' revolt 1381. In countless legends the wren features as a tyrant and it would seem that, in this song, it became the symbol of baronial property, for which preparation for the seizure and redistribution to the peasants was to be carried out in the greatest secrecy. Hence the symbolism and hidden meaning. An excellent version of this ancient song has been collected by N. O'Connor from Simon McDonald of Crewick, Victoria, 1963.

bRAVE WOLFE - After weeks of futile attempts to take Quebec by first bombarding the town, then by trying to force the French, led by Montcalm, from their position near the town, Wolfe and about 4000 men - all that was left from his original 8000 troops - landed at night about two miles upstream. They climbed the Heights of Abraham and next morning drew up in battle array behind the French. Montcalm sent his army to "smash the English". However, the English held their fire until their foes were within forty yards range, completely routing the French. Within minutes the battle was over. Wolfe, who was mortally wounded in the battle, was reported as saying as he breathed his last, "I shall die happy". Montcalm, who was also killed, is not reported as saying anything!

SUCH A PARCEL OF ROGUES IN A NATION - The Union of 1707, bitterly opposed by many Scots, inspired much political balladry. This song, written by Burns, and published in Volume IV of "Scots Musical Museum", accuses the pro-Union faction in the Scottish Parliament of literally being "bought and sold for English gold". A pro-Union Whig song of 1707, which also uses the phrase "parcel of rogues" was probably written in reply to the Jacobite song.

NORTH SEA HOLES - This song, written by Ewan McColl, forms part of the narration in the musical documentary "Singing the Fishing", one of the radio ballads produced by McColl and Charles Parker for the B.B.C. The song describes the work of the herring fishermen who live along the east coast of England and Scotland.

THE FEMALE RAMBLING SAILOR - Dr. Edgar Waters says of this song: The story of a girl dressing as a man and serving as a sailor in the navy is certainly not an uncommon one in English broadside ballads of the 18th and 19th Centuries. But although this ballad of the Female Rambling Sailor is on a familiar enough theme, I have not been able to trace it in the broadside ballads. It seems sufficiently clear from the style of the ballad that it is English and of 18th or early 19th Century origin. The melody also appears to be English and is of rather an interesting and unusual construction. This version of the song was collected by R. Michell and N. O'Connor from Mrs. Catherine Peatey of Brunswick, Victoria in 1959.

ADMIRAL BENBOW - This song refers to the action of August 19-24th, 1702, between Benbow and the French squadron under Admiral du Casse off the coast of Santa Maria in the West Indies, Benbow, deserted by two of his ships, the Greenwich and Defiance, engaged and defeated the French. Severely wounded, he returned to his base where he caused Captains Kirby and Wade to be shot for desertion. He later died from the wounds he received. Benbow was affectionately known to his men as the "Brother Tar" because of his service before the mast as an ordinary seaman before his promotion.

THE GOLDEN VANITY - In some versions of this widely-known ballad the enemy is Turkish or French or, as in this case, Spanish, but rarely does it end happily. This one, collected by A.G. Gilchrist from W. Bolton of Lancashire, who explained the "black bear skin" was the cabin boy's covering at night and that he wished to wear it as a disguise from the enemy.

THE SAILOR DECEIVED - This three verse lament, from the Hammond and Gardiner collection, is a fragment of a far longer ballad. Despite its brevity, few songs on the theme of the jilted sailor capture the heartbreak so completely.

MY DONAL - Written by Scots singer, Owen Hand, himself a sailor. This beautiful song tells of the fears and loneliness of the women awaiting the return of their men who sail "southwards in search of the whale".   

SALLY FREE AND EASY - Cyril Tawney, an ex submariner fron Plymouth, Devon, says the song refers to a "little affair" he had out in Malta. In its verse form this was an attempt at an English equivalent of the blues. To avoid the blues rhythm he used an accompaniment suggested by the throbbing sound of a diesel engine when a submarine is "doing a charge" in harbour.

NOTES COMPILED BY THE SINGERS - 1968

Just for the record, I have just copied these notes from the record sleeves. Whether their accuracy has changed over the last 35 years I'll leave to the scholars to debate.

Allan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 10:30 PM

Hi Allan
Will you settle for The Reata? (same address, earlier incarnation).
In fact not only was that my first 'residency', but it was the first coffee lounge in which I ever heard a folk singer - Paul Marks.
(Of course, I may have sung there later... so many venues, so many years ago)
Cheers
Margret


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: alinact
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 04:03 AM

G'day Margret. First off, I apologise for misspelling your name - I should have read your web site before commenting!

I remember the name The Reata, but it would have been about 1970/71 when I first saw you so I'm not sure. It's scary how these nostalgic reminiscences make you realise how many of those little grey cells you've lost over the years.

Good luck with the CD launch and concert.

Allan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: rich-joy
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 05:26 AM

Thanks Bob (and Sandra) for that info about the Declan and Colin CD-Rs - I'll call Dave B. ASAP!
My Partner, Paul Lawler, (who was apparently known as "Little Declan" by many, in those early daze in the 60s Sydney folk scene), will be very pleased to hear that some more recordings are surfacing!!

[Just in case anyone remembers Paul - from the 70s onwards, he lived and sang via the infamous Top End Folk Club in Darwin (with sojourns in Ireland, England and Sweden) for 20 or so years - and for the last 10 years, has been a Maleny, Queensland resident and now runs the monthly "A Bit of Folk on the Side" night - I have to keep bludgeoning him to make the bugga sing, though!!!!!]

Cheers!
R-J


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 06:55 AM

G'day again,

Rich-Joy: Sorry I could only give you a 'phone number - the CD has e-mails for the Audio boffin ... and the layout artist ... but not for Dave! I guess you could try an e-mail to Johnny Hi-Fi, who did the digital restoration and remastering to see if they working on a Colin Dryden CD-R: johnnyhifi@optusnet.com.au should get them. Dave is the bloke who would know what was planned, but not yet in train.

Hrothgar: I think my early-morning thought processes have definitely gone downhill since I decided I was drinking too much coffee ... and substituted 3 cups of green tea, during the working day! Anyway, the mispelling of Graham Jenkin's name was the least of the stuff-ups in that series of postings!

Regards,

Bob Bolton


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 06:58 AM

Oops ...

Not to mention responding to Hrothgar's comments in tne wrong thread!

Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Margret RoadKnight
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 08:18 AM

Obviously time to admit to any possible mistakes & ommissions -

Allan - sounds like it definitely was at The Green Man (however, wasn't the location High St, Prahran?), and thanks for the wishes!

Re Graham Lowndes on CD - how could I have forgotten that he recorded his classic "Till Time Brings Change" with Jeannie Lewis & yours truly on my "Fringe Benefits" CD in '93...?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 08:43 AM

Margret - welcome to Mudcat

I was still in high school in the 60's so am catching up on the music of the time - I'm also very new (6 years) in the folk world & as I'm an obsessive collector I'm buying everything I can find, local & imported.

This is a great thread.

sandra


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Moleskin Joe
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 09:20 AM

Thanks for the info Bob.
Cheers.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Margret RoadKnight
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 07:11 PM

Sandra - Many thanks - Great to be here.
Do come & say Hi if you're at Jamberoo (closest I'll be to your neck of the woods in the foreseeable)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: DaveA
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 08:58 PM

Margret, Alan et al,

As I remember it, there was Reata in the City (Little Bourke St) quickly followed by Little Reata in High St Malvern. Both were active in the early 60's. Reata gradually became more of a restaurant but Little Reata became the home of Paul Marks, Martyn Wyndham-Reid and Brian Mooney. A fire intervened sometime in the 60's and Little Reata was eventually reopened as The Green Man under the benign supervision of Tom Mill. But the magic of the early days had gone.

Interestingly, it resurfaced 12-15 years later when Andrew Pattison opened The Troubadour in Bowan Crescent (later relocated to Brunswick St) & provided a Melbourne venue to Eric Bogle in his early days. I still remember his rueful comments after Malcolm Frazer lost the election in the early 80's "I'm glad the bastards gone but sad I've just lost half of my repertoire". I guess that is a problem he doesn't have these days.

Ironically, The Troudadour also succombed to fire in 1989 and now survives as a treasured memory (& a good out of town weekend festival at Campaspe Downs each November).

Cheers

Dave


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Margret RoadKnight
Date: 01 Aug 03 - 01:57 AM

Dave - Close......
The Reata in Malvern was the first, followed by the larger Little Reata (confusing, I know) in "downtown Melbourne, so it's The Reata which became The Green Man.
Thanks for all that background and those dates.
BTW, this year I"ll be on the Troubadour's November festival for the first time (could have happened sooner, as I was the first S.R.O. performer at their Brunswick St venue).
Cheers
Margret


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: alinact
Date: 01 Aug 03 - 02:46 AM

Fair dinkum, I'm getting all goose-bumpy reading all this stuff. What with Traynor's, the Polaris Inn, the Green Man, etc., that was my entire social life.

Now, what was that other folk club/coffee lounge just a couple of blocks away from Traynor's? The Lemon Tree hotel comes to mind but I'm not sure that's what I'm thinking of.

Allan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Margret RoadKnight
Date: 01 Aug 03 - 09:07 AM

Allan - Perhaps you're thinking of The Outpost Inn ("Paris end of Collins Street")?
Can't remember exactly when it started (late '60s) but before long I was booking the acts for it, which means I gave their first gig to the Capt Matchbox boys (when they were still called the Jelly Bean Jug Band).
Cheers
Margret


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: rich-joy
Date: 02 Aug 03 - 02:13 AM

According to my partner, Paul Lawler, this would've been 67 or 68. He used to attend the Outpost Inn in Collins St to play chess and argue with the catholic priests who ran it!! (He also frequented Traynor's and remembers darkness, barrels, candles - and Danny & Gordon, of course!!)

Re EXTRADITION (whom I never saw, BTW - I was in West Aussie), Paul says he remembers seeing them at a concert in Sydney Town Hall around 69? and with Colin Campbell, Colin Dryden, Shayna Karlin on stage - and maybe the youngest of the Gillespie Bros on percussion??? Anyway, he said it was fabulous, ground-breaking stuff at the time and would DEARLY LOVE to get hold of a recording of THAT concert - any takers???!!!

Bob, re the Colin Dryden recordings, Evan Matheson has just informed me that "The Man" to talk to on Colin would be Derrick Chetwynd, who now lives in Brisbane, so I may do that too!

Cheers!
R-J


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 02 Aug 03 - 08:12 AM

Hello, Margret

see you at Jamberoo - I never miss that festival

sandra


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: JennyO
Date: 02 Aug 03 - 09:19 AM

I'll be there, too. More than likely I'll be the one giving Sandra a lift, so you can take your 90% down doona and the hot water bottle, Sandra.

I hope the campsite will be a little more comfortable than the one at Albion Park was. That festival really "blew me away"!

Jenny


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: cobber
Date: 03 Aug 03 - 08:21 PM

All this talk about Colin Dryden reminds me of another little story. About 1068, I bought a D35 Martin 12 string guitar (Beautiful guitar but couldn't stand the Australian climate. I'd just picked it up and was driving into carlton when I spotted Colin walking along the footpath so I stopped to show it to him. We sat in the gutter for an hour or more with people walking past shaking their heads while Colin explored the sounds it made and showed me all sorts of riffs that I didn't know. My main memory of Colin (apart from his self-destructive style of living) is of a man with a very generous heart who would encourage and help younger musicians like myself. He was also prone to bullshit a bit. For years he had me convinced that he had written the tune "Lannigan's Ball". I've always believed him to be the composer of the beautiful song, "The Factory Lad", in fact we even credited him with it when we recorded it. Can anyone confirm this? Or not, as the case may be.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: JennieG
Date: 04 Aug 03 - 12:57 AM

geez cobber what a memory - I can't remember what I ate for breakfast this morning, let alone what guitar I bought in 1068!
Cheers
Jennie


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: JennyO
Date: 04 Aug 03 - 05:55 AM

Well if he didn't write Factory Lad, it's news to me and we've all got it wrong!

Jenny


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: DaveA
Date: 04 Aug 03 - 06:30 AM

Margret,

Are you performing at the Troubadour Birthday weekend in 3 weeks time or the annual Weekend in November???
And thanks for the correction re the "Reatas". You are dead right & I was dead wrong.
It is a pity no-one recorded some of those sessions from Reata in the early 60s, especially Martyn singing some of the old English Ballads like "Farmers Boy" and "The Skye Boat Song".
I took my (then) 9 year old daughter to hear him at the Troubadour in 1983 as The Skye Boat song was her favourite & she knew I'd learnt it from Martyn. He was doing a gig with Danny Spooner & Ellen Hundsley & when I asked if he was planning on singing it & why, he looked doubtful & said he hadn't sung it for years but he'd see what he could do in the second bracket.
Well, the second bracket came & went, as did an encore but no "Boat Song". One tired little girl looked at me and said (with big tearfilled eyes) "Don't worry Daddy, it's only a song & it's been a wonderful night".
Then suddenly, back came Martyn to do a second encore, stopped at our table and said to her "Hello, you must be Tara. We're going to sing your song now. Do you want to come up and sing it with us"????
She was a bit shy to go on stage but she sang every word quietly as she sat on my lap & I had the teary eyes.
A wonderful memory of a very special performer that remains with me (and my now married daughter) to this day. A true gentleman.
Look forward to seeing you at one or other of the weekends
Dave


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Margret RoadKnight
Date: 04 Aug 03 - 09:39 AM

Hi Dave
November Troubadour Festival for me - couldn't make the 25th anniversary weekend (to be fair to The Boite, where I'm performing 2 weeks later).
Enjoyed your Martyn Wyndham-Read anecdote... you're right, he's a really nice guy.
Cheers
Margret


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 05 Aug 03 - 09:22 AM

by-the-by, Martyn will be here early next year - he's launching Songlinks at the National & will be touring around

sandra


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: rich-joy
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 05:29 AM

By putting "the twiliters" into the Australian Google, I found Google's cached webpages for "Reflections from "Dave's Place" by Ken Bradshaw - all about the ABC-TV show in the mid 60s hosted by the Kingston Trio's Dave Guard - shame I couldn't get the photos still though ...

Makes VERY interesting reading though, for anyone reminiscing about those earlier days of "Aussie Folk"!! Maybe the start of another thread : "Whatever happened to ... ?" what do yez reckon???


Cheers!
R-J


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Cattail
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 08:01 PM

Hi Maldenny, and all others here.

I have a tape, which doesn't seem to have been mentioned yet on these
two threads, and which may be of interest to you all.

Called:

    BUSHWACKERS AND CITY SLICKERS
a larrikin collection of australian songs

It was issued on the AXIS label
Number TC-AX 701305
This compilation 1982

It has on it:

SIDE 1

1. South Australia.                (Original Bushwackers Band)

2. Bold Jack Donahue.                (Danny Spooner)

3. Diranbandi/
    Bunyip In The Water Tank.        (Mike & Michelle Jackson)

4. The Teams.                        (Cathie O'Sullivan)

5. Denis O'Reilly.                (Original Bushwackers Band)

6. The Aussie Take-Away        (Eric Bogle)

7. Bullants in your Pants.        (Chris Duffy)

8. The Fat Song.                (Cyril May & Fabulous Jack)


SIDE 2


1. And The Band Played Waltzing Matilda.         (Eric Bogle)

2. The Toorak Tram.                (Bernard Bolan)

3. Basingstokes.                (Bernard Bolan)

4. Old Sydney Town.                (Phyl Lobl)

5. Country Girls.                (John Summers)

6. Jindyworoback.                (Drew Forsythe)

7. Neurotica Suburbia                (Robyn Archer)



Sorry for such a long post, I hope it may be of some use.
(And hopefully I get to pay a little back for all the great stuff
I've gained from the Mudcat)

DaveA, that was a lovely, touching story about your little
daughter, I bet it made her night, and yours too.

Cheers to you all.

Cattail 0~


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 27 Aug 03 - 11:12 PM

G'day again,

Back on 24 July, Robin ... or GUEST,Bendigo ... asked:

Hi...I've been trying for a long time to locate a copy of A.L.Lloyds "Outback Ballads" Topic 12T51 Could anyone help me/direct me ? Or perhaps do me a tape ?
         Any help would be gratefully accepted.
                         Regards    Robin


At the time I was not able to find any local (Larrikin) re-release of the Lloyd material requested. Since then, I have come across a cassette with both Topic 12T51 Outback Ballads and Topic 12TS203 The Great Australian Legend. These are no great shakes ... probably second cassette copies of old vinyl ... and the only way I currently have of copying them would be via a tacky 4-in-1 (Radio /LP /CD /2-Cassette box.

If that will get you access to material you can't locate from honest commercial releases, I can do a copy for you. If you are now a member, you can PM me ... otherwise we will have to work out some other arrangements.

BTW: If you run across Peter Ellis around Bendigo, give him my regards.

Bob Bolton


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,dBranno
Date: 28 Aug 03 - 08:21 PM

G'day comrades,
(BIG hellos to Margret, Cobber John and Guru Bob,and all youse Auscatters)
I haven't been at the 'cat for a while - great to see this thread !
there was, by chance, a launch of the Declan Affley CD in Sydney last w'end - a long Saturday arvo in the Gaelic Club...Jeannie Lewis sang, and John Dengate, several other obvious suspects including yours truly.
Re. further releases from the Australian Folk Archive - Mr. Chetwynd and I are doing a Colin Dryden sampler ( also, possibly, THAT Extradition concert, PJFF 1970 )and we have more Declan, the Colonials
and very early Captain Matchbox ( original line-up ) in de can.
I also have some interesting vinyl - one of what I beleive were TWO different Melbourne Town Hole concerts ( Maldenny are you there? )with Martyn W-Read, Dave Lumsden, et al
AND Trevor Lucas' eponymous first album ( 1964, he was 20 !) with some tracks live at Frank Traynor's.
These albums are being digitised, but I'm not sure about release. I'm sure interested parties could swap certain recordings for educational purposes if nothing else !
All the best, keep those toes and fingers tapping
Regards, Dave B


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Li'l Aussie Bleeder.
Date: 28 Aug 03 - 11:38 PM

Saw 'The Seekers' at The Treble Cleff in Toorak Road just down from the YWCA, home at the time (around 1963ish). Also zoomed off to the Rialto or Reata on the back of a Vespa, and a place in St Kilda Rd. called 'The Jolly Roger'.
My record 'The Twilighters in Concert' I think it is called, though I havn't seen it for about 5 years having loaned it to Buggsey and he doesn't return anything.
L


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Margret RoadKnight
Date: 29 Aug 03 - 03:29 AM

Greetings right back at ya, Dave!
Congrats on the Declan Affley CD, btw.
Hope you get to release all those others you have in the can - you've got one buyer here, OK.....would especially love to hear that Colin Dryden collection.
Incidentally, saw Shayna Karlin/Stewart (Extradition) in Brisbane this week.... apparently she doesn't perform anymore, but she sang songs her Dad had nominated for his wake (Carter's "Crow on the Cradle" and Lehrer's "Irish Ballad").
And if we wait a coupla years she can join me in my "'60's" show (you have to be in your sixties & sing songs you performed in the '60s)
Cheers
Margret


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 29 Aug 03 - 09:11 AM

me too, I want them all, please.

I have the Vicious Sloth "Extradition" on order at the moment.

I took my Extradition LP into my favourite CD shop, Mojo Music (Kings of the Back Catalogue) last week & Lee was impressed, tho he hadn't realised some copies were making $1500 overseas. Then he told me they often had copies of the CD, but as they put it in with Australiana I'd never seen it. The Australiana section only ever contained country & didg music on the odd occasions I looked there so I avoided it & just studied the Folk section.

sandra


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: cobber
Date: 02 Sep 03 - 03:07 AM

Hello again. Another favourite album that had a pretty restricted release, though i suspect it was early seventies rather than sixties was the one George Black, Gordon MacIntyre and Andrea Calder did under the name of Desiderata. I know my copy is pretty worn from too many late night playings - the hand got more shaky as the evening progressed and thye level in the whisky bottle dropped. If nobody has a better copy it would still be worth the time to clean up the scratches and pops. They did a beautiful version of Timothy Winters which is unfortunately as true today as it was back then.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Chris/Darwin at work
Date: 02 Sep 03 - 03:34 AM

Bob

I have a copy of Lloyd's The Great Australian Legend somewhere in pretty good condition I think.

Regards

Chris


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Hi Dave B From Wngt.
Date: 02 Sep 03 - 05:50 AM

Dave you may or may not remember me. I'm Murray Kilpatrick.
Used to hang around the Monde. You crossed the ditch with Dickie Doctors. Came back for a festival and then we never saw you all again. Remember you used to sing with and leaned against Bob Silbery etc. He's still playing as am I. Frank Fyfe oassed away a few years ago.
Scene is very quiet but still exists nowdays.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 03 Sep 03 - 12:10 AM

G'dat dBranno/Dave B,

It's all interesting stuff ... the Declan Affley is great to have - and you've done a good job of salvaging from some dubious originals!

BTW:

"... and very early Captain Matchbox ( original line-up ) in de can ..."

I have black & white concert photos from National Folk Festival, 1971 (Adelaide), of Captain Matchbox - I mentioned these when buying some CDs of The National Junk Band from Mick Conway, at Jamberoo last year ... He replied "So, is this a blackmail threat?".

(I also have photos, from [possibly] the same concert, of Margret in a mini-skirt ... well on any other chanteuse it may have been a midi-skirt - anyway, an the next night she wore a full-length style!

Regards,

Bob Bolton


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: martyn w-r
Date: 03 Sep 03 - 06:28 PM

Hi Ho All   I have just been enjoying looking at all the information on the Mudcat site, on the list of Australian sixties Albums I believe that Moreton Bay was the first Peter Mann recording, and I did that with Brian Mooney and David Lumsden in about 1962. I remember recording it on a Saturday in a chuch hall which I think was part of Melbourne Grammer School where Peter Mann taught. A friend of mine in Cornwall found a mint copy of it never having been played and this was in an auction a few years ago. A cousin of David Lumsden's issued a limited edition of Moreton Bay which he had at Port Fairy where Brian Mooney, David Lumsden and myself sang the tracks off the record about 5 years ago. Martyn W-R


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Sep 03 - 06:39 PM

Hi, Martyn! Yep...we have a rousing good time here at Mudcat!...Glad to see you here...and will be glad to see you next month at my house. (Is the little chair still holding up?)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: alinact
Date: 04 Sep 03 - 08:56 AM

Gee, Margret RoadKnight and now Martyn Wyndham-Read. I, at least, am in the presence of royalty.

On the subject of Captain Matchbox - does anyone remember the film version of the play "Dimboola" (1979)? CM were the musicians who provided the music for the wedding. They started out doing some punk rock stuff, but soon found out what is required for country weddings. They ended up doing "The Sheik of Araby" in their own inimatable style, probably as homage to Chad Morgan who had an acting role in the film.

There were also three young ladies in the film who sang two, terrific and very popular, Aussie songs of the 40's-50's? - We're Riding Through the Never-Never and I'm Going Back Again to Yarrawonga.

Allan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 04 Sep 03 - 10:32 AM

Good to see you here officially, Martyn!

Welcome to the world of Mudcat - it's fun & educational & wonderful & amusing & fantastic & lots more

see ya in the new year

sandra


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,dBranno
Date: 09 Sep 03 - 07:11 AM

Martyn, perhaps you can help date an album I have called 'Australian Folk Night', on W&G, produced by (and featuring) Denis Gibbons, with yourself and the bush band, the Moonbeam, the Lumsden, and Doug Owen, Peter Laycock and Lenore Somerset. I've searched my old Tradition mags and found mention of another Melb. T.H. concert, mid-late '65, sponsored by Frank Traynor (which was my first ever folk concert), where you and several other usual suspects perform ( also young Jeannie Lewis and Kevin Butcher who passed on recently) SO, the concert on vinyl feels like it's earlier...

Bob,the centrefold (la la) of the March 1966 Tradition has a series of photos from a 'Songs of Peace and Love' concert (Nov. '65). Some frighteningly young looking folkies, including the beautiful Mss. Thomasetti and Lawton....

Murray in the shaky isles..bloody gooooooday to you.
That's a very low blow to the sedimental memory bone you, you...
Yeah, you're right, neither the Doc or meself have been back to Aotae for hmmmm 30 years!! I see him every so often, still playing and singing. Good to hear that the chuckleberry kicks on too.. please give him a g'day from me when you see him next.

keep dem toes and fingers tappin'    regards Branno


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 09 Sep 03 - 09:29 PM

G'day dBranno,

Yes, I have a full set of Tradition ... and I scanned in a couple of the Glen Tomasetti pix for the Phyl Lobl (neé Vinnicombe) obit articles in Mulga Wire, i>Cornstalk Gazette and i>Trad&Now. I passed through Melbourne a couple of times around those years, between construction jobs in the Tasmanian Hydro and the Snowy Scheme, so I did, briefly, get to see a few of those much younger faces!

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Regards,

Bob Bolton


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 09 Sep 03 - 11:18 PM

G'day again,

Just in case anyone is as confused by my tortuous prose as I am, that line above was meant to convey: "... the obit article by Phyl Lobl (neé Vinnicombe) for Glen Tomasetti ..." (or something like that!

Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 09:07 AM

speaking of Extradition - I have finally got my copy of the Hush CD - magic! I have played it 3 times tonight & could still be listening to it but I really must get to bed sometime soon as the alarm will be going off in less than 6 hours.

Margret - there are 2 versions of Ice - one on the original record, the other included in 6 bonus tracks from a concert recorded live March 1970.

If I didn't have to meet my good friends for brekkie, I'd play the album again!

sandra


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: freda underhill
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 11:53 PM


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Margret RoadKnight
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 12:04 AM

Thanks for the info re Extradition released on CD, Sandra.
The version of "Ice" I learned from the LP was actually sung by a guesting Graham Lowndes (my nomination for the most soulful, and under-rated, Australian male singer, btw)......
I imagine the extra live version on your CD features another singer (Shayna?)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 06:55 AM

nope, it's a bloke!!

notes say Colin Dryden & Shayna both do vocals but all I hear from her is the (finger?) bells. (Dave, when's the Colin Dryden album coming out?)

It's a powerful version, but like you I do prefer the Graham Lowndes' version I've listened to for almost 3 decades!

ICE
(Colin Campbell)

There is whiteness all around
Looking up I see no sky
Looking out I see no distance
Looking down I see no ground
Only cliffs of ice are moving
Frosty breath the only sound

I hear the ice
I hear the glaciers returning

sandra (listening to Extradition once again)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: rich-joy
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 08:54 PM

Hi Sandra - finally received my long-awaited copy of EXTRADITION too, just before Xmas -

Must admit however, that upon the FIRST hearing, Paul and I both felt that it was very
"of it's time" (retrospectively thinking) or,
"ahead of it's time" (at the time) or,
maybe they were just "out of it, at the time" :
i.e. we felt that perhaps we needed to be stoned to REALLY appreciate the FIRST half of the CD!!!

(and yes, we could just be getting too old, that's true!!!)

OK OK, so I'll go back and listen again (now that we're not so busy and stressed out pre-Woodford and Fire Events!)


The CD didn't contain all the tracks from the concert that Paul remembered with such "Nost"! but hopefully Dave Brannigan & Derryck Chetwynd's recording will cover them ...

The surprise for us was hearing Colin's recording of "The Ballad of Reading Gaol", that he set to Oscar Wilde's famous poem.
I've only ever heard Paul Lawler (ex Sydney/Darwin) sing that song - beautifully and heart-rendingly - and I think he learnt it from Gerry Hallom years and years ago, who also taught him a lovely guitar riff, that Colin Dryden doesn't do on THAT recording ... But I'd never heard anyone but Paul sing that song - s'pose it'll take on a new lease of life now!!!

ALINACT - are you going to continue with your early Oz recordings data, here???
We've really been enjoying Malcolm J. Turnbull's early Melbourne folk scene history articles in the "Trad and Now" magazine - hopefully, other cities will be included in the series???


Cheers! R-J


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: rich-joy
Date: 15 Feb 04 - 02:32 AM

I've just come across a copy of "The Coffee House Songbook" OAK Pubs, NY, 1966 - in an opshop - which covers "... the tradition of folksong which we have found to be most favoured by semi-professional and often wandering Folk Singers of North America between 1959 and 1965 ..."

and Surprise! Surprise! it includes "The Ballad of Reading Gaol"!!!
Set to the music of "I Saw Her As She Came and Went" by Chris Couveau from Williamsport, PA - DOES ANYBODY KNOW THIS SONG, or this artist?????

Now many of the chords written on this copy are the same as those which Paul learnt for this song - but not being a musician, I cannot say if it's the same tune!! However, The EXTRADITION CD only credits "Oscar Wilde, arr Colin Dryden/Colin Campbell" ...

Anybody know any more details? (or should I start another thread perhaps?!)

Cheers!
R-J


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: rich-joy
Date: 15 Feb 04 - 02:59 AM

Well, I just went Googling and came up with a TINY fragment of the song that sounded VERY familiar!!
It is on a Bok/Muir/Trickett recording "So Will We Yet"(?), but was written by gay civil rights activist (a singer and quaker,too) BAYARD RUSTIN (1912-1987)

So WHO set Oscar to this piece??? Was it the mysterious Chris Couveau in PA?
Or, was it the deceased Colin Dryden, Down Under (no, NOT from the grave!! In OZ, I mean!!) No, maybe not, he would've been too young perhaps ...

Anyone any clues please?

Cheers!
R-J


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Joybell
Date: 15 Feb 04 - 07:15 AM

Sandra, Shayna? Shayna Carlin?? She had a great influence on me at Frank Traynor's, along with Danny Spooner and Gordon McIntyre. Yes Cobber I was there too!. I named my first daughter after Shayna. Never told her of course, I was too shy to talk to anyone back then. Does anyone know her whereabouts now? I found a brief mention of her online but not much. Joy


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 15 Feb 04 - 07:21 AM

Joybelle

Margret RoadKnight knows Shayna - she posted to this thread 29 Aug & here 'tis. Why not pm her?
.....................
29 Aug 03 - 03:29 AM

Incidentally, saw Shayna Karlin/Stewart (Extradition) in Brisbane this week.... apparently she doesn't perform anymore, but
she sang songs her Dad had nominated for his wake (Carter's "Crow on the Cradle" and Lehrer's "Irish Ballad").
And if we wait a coupla years she can join me in my "'60's" show (you have to be in your sixties & sing songs you performed
in the '60s)
Cheers
Margret


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Joybell
Date: 15 Feb 04 - 07:35 AM

Great! Thank you Sandra. I'll contact Margaret. She was another singer I was too shy to talk to back in the 60s. Might ask her about her 60s show. I'll qualify next year and I wasn't too shy to perform in the 60s - though not in such prestigious venues as Traynor's. Joy


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: alinact
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 05:32 AM

OK, just to keep the theme going, try this one.

No date on this one but it is a "6 track 33W&G Compact LP" titled OUTBACK with the SOUTHERN FOLK THREE. It's on the W&G label (WG-Q-1851).

Side 1

1. WALTZING MATILDA (3.12)
   Cowan- Paterson (Allan)

2. BOTANY BAY (2.46)
   Trad. arr. Vincent (Woomera)

3. THE KELLYS' FATEFUL DAY (3.45)
   Campbell Vincent (Woomera)

Side 2

1. THE OLD BARK HUT (3.39)
   Trad. arr. Vincent (Woomera)

2. THE DYING STOCKMAN (2.40)
   Trad. arr. Vincent (woomera)

3. THE OLD PALMER SONG (2.08)
   Trad. arr. Vincent (Woomera)

In the past, many people have felt that Australian folk-songs offered little scope for musical originality. On this record, THE SOUTHERN FOLK THREE have engendered a new spirit and verve into songs which most people regard as being 'hackneyed and unimaginative'. Their musical sensitivity, coupled with a sympathetic feeling for the lyrics adds warmth and colour to the Australian folk scene.

Never before have these familiar songs been arranged and presented in such an exciting way. Listen to the haunting tone evoked by the unusual chords in "The Dying Stockman"; feel the lusty drive of "The Old Bark Hut" as the boys narrate this whimsical tale; witness the changing moods of "Waltzing Matilda" as fate ensnares the unfortunate swagman. Experience all of these sensations and more as you go "Outback with the Southern Folk Three".

And what of "The southern Folk Three".

Known throughout Australia as "The Unichords" these boys began their career whilst studying at Melbourne University. Of late they have been concentrating on their first love - folk music - hence the group's new name.

Bearded leader Campbell Vincent, a devotee of all folk music, is responsible for all the arrangements. A Bachelor of Music, his range of instruments includes five-string banjo, guitar, piano to name a few.

Charles Conlan, lead singer and a soloist in his own right, is largely responsible for the driving sound the group achieves while Laurie Arter provides the vocal bass and guitar accompaniment.... left handed!

We need say no more. You'll hear all about them!

Recording Engineer .. RUSS THOMPSON

Cover Design and Layout .. . KAREN

Recorded, Processed, Pressed and Issued through the Australasia-wide facilities of W&G


Just a couple of points - does our 60's (insecurity?) (paranoia?) (lack of confidence?) shine in some of these cover notes?

and does anyone else remember the W&G label as Wobble and Goggle?

Allan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: rich-joy
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 07:58 AM

West Aussie DJs called it "Wiggle and Giggle", Allan!
(Thanks for the PM too - and no, these names don't ring any bells with me I'm afraid ...)

Cheers! R-J


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Valda
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 01:08 AM

THE ANNETTE KLOOGER SHOW

ABC / x30m-e / 1959-61 black and white

Producer: Fred Maxian

Variety series hosted by Annette Klooger and featuring regulars such as Dennis Biggons, Frank Sheldon, The Unichords and The Ted Preston Quartet.

Quote from the MemorableTV /Australia site.... so they must have had a profile if they were regulars on a tv program ... interesting post!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Margret RoadKnight
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 02:37 AM

(Guess you're referring to Denis Gibbons, Valda).

Denis first recorded in 1954, and claims to have issued "the first ever recording of the original version of Waltzing Matilda" (more recently released on a Move Records CD in '95).

I'm wondering how his recording of Australian folk songs compared to, of all people, Burl Ives (who toured Australia in 1952, and learnt songs from the collection of Dr Percy Jones, as did Denis).

Burl Ives (with the Four Guardsmen - who were they?) issued a 10"LP on Columbia in the '50s of "Nine Australian Folk Songs", but who was first.....? (maybe a third part..?)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Valda
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 03:02 AM

Hello Margret.
Firstly, I thought I should tell you that a copy of David Mulhallen's review of your CD has been placed on FOLK AUSTRALIA.You can see it in the REVIEWS section here: http://folkaustralia.com/

Not sure if it means Denis Gibbons - I found it spelt that way on a website! Here's an interesting reference to the FOUR GUARDSMEN taken from, of all placed, a copy of Hansard (April 6 2000) in 2000:

"Mr Jack Neary, AM, OBE. was a giant of the Australian entertainment industry ... Jack Neary was a young policeman when he formed a quartet called The Four Guardsmen, entered it in Australian Amateur Hour and won. Success followed, and the quartet became national stars of radio and the Tivoli circuit.

Jack moved from entertainment to managing entertainers. Bobby Limb, John Laws and the orchestra leader Bobby Gibson all began their careers with Jack. Later he extended his activities, started booking overseas artists to come to Australia and moved into television production and film making. Jack brought many famous artists to Australia, including Winifred Atwell, Harry Secombe, Dave Allen and Jack Benny. He was involved in touring the von Trapp Family Singers, but the highlight of those years was his signing of the Beatles for their Australian tour. ..."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Margret RoadKnight
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 08:28 AM

Appreciate the pointer to David's review of "Moving Target" - thanks, Valda!
And for the note re The Four Guardsmen.
Now to find out which year that Burl Ives album was recorded.....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 10:07 PM

G'day Margaret,

Purely - from the foggy recesses of what I laughingly call my memory - the date 1953 arises, for the Burl Ives LP. I need to check that in printed texts, but I think it's about right!

Regards,

Bob


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Valda
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 12:49 AM

BURL IVES:
Roger Clarke, on his Waltzing Matilda site, says that 'Waltzing Matilda' was included in a sheet music album "Nine Australian Folk Songs" published by Allan's in 1952. It showed Burl Ives on the cover (timed to coincide with his visit here in 1952).

Here's a bit of trivia... (I'd like to see these though!)In the Burl Ives Collection in the Library of Congress' music division they have listed the fiollowing materials relating to his 1952 tour of Australia and New Zealand:

            Airline tickets and transportation
            Australia: Home for spastic children [photograph]
            Sydney Australia program
            Australia: "Variety" article
            Article on Australia for American newspaper
            Australian tour: Itinerary in Adelaide
            Article by Burl Ives on Australian folksongs
            Australian album presentation to ambassador
            Return to Australia
            Australian taxes
            Australian album after tour
            "Nine Australian Folk Songs" [album cover]
            New Zealand tax returns


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 02:08 AM

G'day Valda,

I knew the Burl Ives Australian Folk Song book came out in 1952, to coincide with his tour - what I need to do is track down the release date of the LP ... I just remember it as the next year.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Compton
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 07:38 PM

This thread is getting a bit long...but I remember with affection around 1974 a bunch of Australians turning up at Sidmouth festival in a converted ambulance. They were, if I can recall their full name,The Bushwacker and Bullockies Bush Band. Anyone else remember that far back?...and are they like me, still about??


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 08:10 AM

G'day Compton,

They are .. in a sense ... still around (I heard, a year or two back that they took on member #57 ... their first female (Pamela Drysdale on accordion) ... I think Mick Slocum, a (~) 1969 original rocker may still be with them.

To further confuse the issue, an ealier "Bushwhackers" (with 2 'h's) started the Australian revival over 50 years ago ... but this lot of reformed rock & rollers had not heard of them!

Regards,

Bob Bolton


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Compton
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 06:56 PM

How good that is, Bob...They were I remember a curious mix! but took Sidmouth Festival by storm!
I take it, they are still recording!?!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 07:41 PM

G'day Compton,

I have not seen any new records for several years - but they do have a website at: Bushwackers, so you can chase up their history and current doings.

(I note that they mention a new CD Ned ... presumably concerning my great-great-great-uncle Ned Kelly - but this record is not in their site's (2½ years out-of-date) list.

Don't take too much of the information on the site as gospel ... I recognised quite a few errors in a quick scan - and the 'Wackers' were never noted for letting the truth stand in the way of a good story (and they used to thrive on the publicity of looking innocent when anyone pointed out their errors!).

Their (full) name: "Bushwackers and Bullockies Bush Band" was sort of filched from the title of a 1960s/70s LP record with Martyn Whyndham-Read, Phyl Vinnicombe and Peter Dickie - called Bushwackers, Bullockies and Booze. The "Moreton Bay Bushwhackers" they mention on the website where actually a Queensland spin-off band from the original Sydney group just called "The Bushwhackers Band". In the late 1950s, all of what we would now call "Bush Bands" tended to be called "Bushwhacker Bands" because the Sydney group created the first definition of such a band.

(BTW: I was intrigued to note that the current incarnation of the rock-based "Bushwackers" has a graphic of the group ... in front of a lot of Sydney 'icons' - the Harbour Bridge, Opera House, Australia Square, &c ... rather than views of their 'native' Melbourne. Well, as a Sydneysider myself, I think that's natural ... but ... ?)

Regards,

Bob Bolton


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,bobjack
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 03:35 AM

Post no 100. I thank you. You have made an old Guinea Pig very happy.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Bryan Sutton
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 08:58 AM

The generally posted words for 'Maryborough Miner' do not quite fit my memory of A L Lloyds singing on a vinyl LP that I heard back in the late 60s of early 70s. It could have been Outback Ballads, it had a photo on the cover of a lot of desert with a shepherd and his two dogs in the middle distance. That version, as I remembered it, started 'Im a maryborough miner, as you may understand...' and later had the phrase 'my patent pill dispenser is the sure fire cure for gripes...' My problem is the usual version doesnt quite fit my remembered tune, also that second phrase is a gem. Can anyone help.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 08:49 PM

G'day Brian Sutton,

If by "The generally posted words..." you mean those in the DT, I must say they are much what I have usually heard ... and 'John in Brisbane' suggests he had them from a Lloyd recording. From where does your variant come?

In tracking down various versions one needs to check whatever versions Lloyd has given ... then compare with the source books he would have used. He never "collected", in any modern sense, in his Australian spell - rather he heard the songs in their native element - learned many - wrote a lot down in notebooks for his needs in remembering and singing them. (Information from Lloyd's private letter to Australian folklore collector John Meredith)

It was decades later that he became a "folklorist" - and he was not of one the 'purist' persuasion. Rather, he combined, edited ... made up from the whole cloth where it suited ... to mould songs that fitted the aims of the Working Mens' Song Group at EFDSS. It is quite possible that both versions you mention are different 'Marks' of the same song process.

All that said, it's one of the bywords that "there is no 'correct' version of a folksong". Sing what works for you ... and defend it with conviction.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Joybell
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 05:44 PM

I have a poster from Nariel Creek, 1972, which shows the "Bushwackers and Bullockies Bush Band" - written on their tea-chest bass. It was just before they dropped the "Bullockies" part of their title. Joy


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 10:57 AM

G'day Joy,

That ... or a similar photo ... also appears in the book/collection of Nariel tunes Music Makes Me Smile. I have an idea the photo comes from the 1969 Nariel Festival ... but need to check that one out.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 01:41 AM

I see that liner notes from several 1960s Australian folk albums have been posted here. I can post liner notes from the 1950s Australian folk album, "Diaphon Presents selections from REEDY RIVER," if they haven't already been posted here or elsewhere on the web.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 02:40 AM

G'day Gerry,

That would be very nice of you ... even if you do slip under the bar set by alinact: "... 1960's ..."! That Diaphon recording would be, as you note, from the 1950s. Is that the one from the 1954 recordings of the Sydney production cast - including the (real - original) Bushwhackers Band?

Regards,

Bob Bolton


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 01:06 AM

Yes, Bob, that's the one. Here are the liner notes, followed by a few comments/questions of my own.

Front Cover

Diaphon Presents selections from REEDY RIVER        

Back Cover

Diaphon presents ... "Reedy River"

Excerpts from the Sydney production with the original cast - and their soloists - Milton Moore, Cecil Grevas and Jack Barry

"...Now still down Reedy River..."

I suppose that if I had not been pestered by members of the cast who were friends of mine, I would never have seen "Reedy River." It's funny how reticent most Australians (myself included, I must confess) feel about seeing and hearing the characters of our own country in epics about Australia. Australia to us often seems to lack the romance and colour of other countries, whose histories are forced with monotonous regularity down our throats, often in a very subtle and palatable way per medium of novels and films. That's how I felt about it all, anyway. I was very wrong, and, if you feel at this moment as I did then, my advice to you is, see "Reedy River," or, if you can't do that, relax and listen to this recording a few times. For here in Dick Diamond's play and in the authentic Australian bush songs that wend their way through it as surely and calmly as Reedy River itself (if it really exists!), you will find the real Australia. Here is no "Collet's Inn" in which the characters are merely European shadows against a highly romantic Australian setting. In "Reedy River" you will meet living people, and what colourful personalities they are!... Squatters, swaggies, barmaids, country schoolmarms, shearers and, of course, the eternal lovers. You will be carried by them to their campfires; to the country hop at the old school house, the Reedy River Pub, and then into the shearing sheds. You'll join with them in their joys and their little sorrows; and, what's more important, you'll feel very proud and very warm. That's why we, at Diaphon, were so eager to put Reedy River on disc. We felt that lots of people who had seen the show would like the opportunity of having a permanent memory of it, and we knew also that there were many people who would not have the opportunity of seeing it. For them, this album will be the first collection of Australian folk music sung by ordinary men and women, whose forbears helped to create it. It is the sincere wish and hope of Diaphon that we have been able to catch a little of the sincerity, the excitement and simplicity of the music which goes to make what the theatre itself terms "a show as warm as a handshake."

We take this opportunity of thanking the Management of new Theatre for their permission to incorporate many of the notes on the songs in our own cover notes. These are taken largely from the excellent Reedy River Song Book, which is available from any of the Australia-wide New Theatres.

Side One

Band One - "CLICK GO THE SHEARS."

Perhaps the most famous of the Australian bush songs, the tune is derived from an old English song, "Ring the Bell, Watchman". On this recording you hear Milton Moore with the Shearers and Bushwhackers' Band, consisting of lagerphone, bush bass, harmonica and guitar.

Band Two - "EUMERELLA SHORE."

Loius Lavater set these words to music. Originally they were sung to the tune of the old American song, "Darling Nellie Gray". This is the number that opens the show and is sung around the campfire by the shearers. The Eumerella, incidentally, is a river in South-Western New South Wales, and to-day the township of Neweralla is set on its banks.

Band Three - "FOUR LITTLE JOHNNY CAKES."

The scene is the Saturday night hop at the Reedy River Schoolhouse. Everyone is there; the girls in their Victorian best and the men for the most part looking most uncomfortable in a variety of "Sunday bests". In comes an old swaggy, who adds to the proceedings with this rendition of traditional lyrics set to music by Louis Lavater. The song is variously known as "The Whaler's Rhyme", "The Shearer's Song" and "The Black Fish Song". Cec. Grevas is the soloist.

Band Four - "REEDY RIVER."

Side one concludes with the "name song" of the show - "Reedy River". Chris Kempster, one of the cast of the Sydney production, and himself a well-known collector of folk music, has arranged the setting for the well-known Henry Lawson poem.

Side Two

Band One - "OLD BLACK BILLY."

We feel that if anyone was collecting recordings of authentic folk music from any part of the world he would find it very difficult to overlook this lovely example of the "troubador" styles. The tune is traditional, but the words were written or restored by Edward Harrington. On this particular recording the chorus work behind Cec. Grevas' solo gives one a feeling of acute nostalgia. This version was collected from a shearer in Melbourne.

Band Two - "BANKS OF THE CONDAMINE."

Like "Click Go The Shears", "Banks of the Condamine" has enjoyed a great amount of popularity since the late last century [sic]. Margaret Sutherland restored the music and Vance Palmer collected the words. It is in the usual line of British folk songs, which have for their story the wish of a girl to follow her lover to the sea or to the wars. However, in this case she merely wants to become a shearer.

Band Three - "REEDY LAGOON."

In its original version, this song was a swagman's lament. Both words and music are traditional, and it was collected by Lance Carew and Jeff Wills at Mataranka, in the Northern Territory.

Band Four - "BALLAD OF '91."

Comparatively recent in origin (although it probably was written for the first time at the end of the last century), this recording is, perhaps, the one that calls for the greatest vocal effort of the whole collection, for it is written in three parts, to be sung unaccompanied. The song tells, roughly, of the gaoling of a number of shearers at Rockhampton who refused to work in non-union sheds. The words are by Helen Palmer, and Miss D. Jacobs wrote the music.

Band Five - "WIDGEEGOWEERA JOE."

John Meredith, also a member of the Sydney cast and, perhaps, the possessor of the best collection of Australian folk music in the Commonwealth, collected this song on tape, from old-timer Jack Lee, who has since died. It is a parody on a very old Irish transportation ballad called "Castle Gardens", and is, therefore, possibly the oldest tune in the show. Jack Barry's boisterous rendering of this shearing song gives it a charm and drive that a more polished arrangement would completely lose. Once again he has the support of the shearers' chorus and the Bushwhackers' Band.

---KEN HANNAM

Now my comments/questions.

There is no date given anywhere on the album, but I'm sure Bob is right in dating it to 1954.

The liner notes don't always say who the soloist is on each track that has one. I'm not sure the information would mean much to me, as I know nothing about the three soloists anyway, but as an obsessive-compulsive I find the omission annoying.

The liner notes never identify by name any of the backing singers and instrumentalists. It's really odd that the notes identify the instruments played, but not the folks playing them! Chris Kempster is named as being in the cast and as writing the music for the title track but it never actually says that he sings or plays on the album. John Meredith is also mentioned but again it doesn't actually say he's on the album in any capacity.

The recording of Reedy River is just a few stanzas from the middle, both the beginning and the end of the poem/song are left out. Was it that way on stage, too?

I'm confused by the parenthetical comment on the Ballad of '91, "it probably was written for the first time at the end of the last century," especially since they then say the words were written by Helen Palmer. Were they thinking Helen Palmer wrote the words at the end of the 1800s? My understanding is she wrote it around 1950.

Anyway, I hope a few people will get something out of this, and maybe add to what I know about it. Gerry


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: rich-joy
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 05:21 AM

Timely resurfacing of this thread : "Reedy River" has JUST been put on again in Darwin, NT, by a Top End Folk Club and Cavenagh Theatre Inc collaboration (I THINK they last did it together in Darwin c.1982??? - or before ...) Anyway, 'Catters, Chris in Darwin and Tony in Darwin were in the Bush Band (and Tony played Alf, as well) ...

Wish I'd still been there to see it ...

Cheers! R-J


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 07:07 AM

G'day again Gerry,

It's wryly amusing to read what was said in some of the old notes! I especially like:

"... CLICK GO THE SHEARS ... Perhaps the most famous of the Australian bush songs, the tune is derived from an old English song, "Ring the Bell, Watchman". "

I wonder how some of the orignal cast members would have reacted to knowing that Click Go The Shears was a direct parody of an American song - Ring the Bell, Watchman ... written by Henry Clay Work to celebrate the ending of the American Civil War!

Ah well, we're surely making errors just as egregious - and might be spared to read of them in our dotage!

Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Joybell
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 07:50 AM

The American influence on "Australian folk songs" has never been properly acknowledged. American miners, entertainers and sheet-music publishers had a considerable effect on Australian audiences during the 19th Century. Publishers of sheet-music deliberately targeted Australia as a new and profitable market. The fast American clipper-ships could reach here well before the slower English ships traveling the slower route. People waited on the docks for the very latest music. They were keen to be up-to-date and modern. The songs of Stephen Foster, and other American song-writers, became more popular than the songs that came here with the settlers. Joy


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Phillip
Date: 06 Jan 06 - 12:33 PM

There is a copy of The Great Australian Legend for sale on ebay. I've only just seen it, and there is only one hour left to go on the auction. At the moment it is selling for £6.33 - $11-something. The record is fantastic. I've only seen it for sale twice before. In the 1970s I got a copy for £3 second hand. About five years ago I saw it for sale at a record fair for £60.

The auction is nothing to do with me but if you like Bert Lloyd, Martin Wyndham-Read or Trevor Lucas, and if the hour isn't up I would run over there pretty quick


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Phillip
Date: 06 Jan 06 - 02:20 PM

In the end it went for £33, $58.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,John Cass
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 03:30 AM

Hello everyone out there.

When I was a younger man, in the mid 1960's Australian folk songs - be they melodically based on British ballads and maybe the words were bastardised versions of British tunes, were very popular.
One of my favourite records was on the "Score" label and was called something like "Moreton bay and other songs, mainly of convict origin"
Featured artists were
Martyn Wyndham - Read
Brian Mooney (recently returned to Australia from a protracted stay of 20 + years in a county in the Irish Republic)
and David Lumsden, who played a Banjo, quite magnificentally.
I read recently on the Internet, that that record has been re-released on a C.D.
Does anyone out there have any more information on this including where the C.D may be purchased here in Melbourne, on what label it has been re-released etc.
Certainly would appreciate all help on this score (no pun intended)

Thanks in anticipation;

John Cass
03 9561-3541
0432-246-876


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: freda underhill
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 07:10 AM

Hi John

The Australian Folk mag Trad & Now website refers to issue Dec 2004 - Feb 2005 on page 37, which has an article by Malcolm J. Turnbull on the Early Years in Melbourne. It refers to a clipping from the Melbourne Age advertising a joint appearance at the East Brunswick Hotel (March 1999) of four of the best-known Melbourne folksingers of the 1960s: Martyn Wyndham-Read, David Lumsden, Brian Mooney and Danny Spooner. The occasion was the launch on Compact Disc of the landmark album Moreton Bay, originally released by the Score label in 1963.

If you can get that issue of Trad & Now, there may be more info about the launch & the CD. I have some issues of the mag, but not that one. you can make enquiries at www.tradandnow.com or email
info@tradandnow.com

best wishes
freda


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 08:58 AM

John, I spoke to Danny about that CD sometime back when I couldnd't locate it thru the CD shop catalogues, & he gave me a contact who might be able to help. I think i still have his email at work, so I'll have a squizz tomorrow & call you. If I don't have it I'll contact him again.

freda - the article has no more info than you quoted.

sandra


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: freda underhill
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 09:15 AM

ta Sandra, and btw I have something for you

f.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 07:33 AM

email from Danny May 2005 & I still haven't followed it up!

........................
The Morton Bay record did not include me and I am not sure where you
could get it. You could try Janette Gillespie Melboune Folk Club,
they did have a launch there which I sang at, Janette is on (03)
9481 6051 or 0414 73 26 67.
........................

sandra


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Margret RoadKnight
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 09:22 PM

Try Jeanette Gillespie at
gillespie.jeanette.f@edumail.vic.gov.au


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Phillip
Date: 23 Mar 07 - 12:37 PM

There's a copy of The Great Australian Legend for sale on ebay until 26th March. No bids at the moment, and starting at £9.something


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Rowan
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 01:47 AM

Just a quick correction to a comment way above. Mick Slocum was not an original member of the Melbourne "Original Bushwackers & Bullockies Bush Band". That group coalesced from a mob (many of whom had some attachment to Melbourne Uni) that sang and played around Carlton and Mick joined them later when he left Canberra. Another person often regarded as an original member is Dobe Newton, but he joined even later.

Cheers, Rowan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Bruce, Sydney.
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 06:22 AM

To Margaret Roadknight, I was introduced to your and Graham Lowndes' singing by listening to Chris Winter's Room to Move radio program on ABC early 70's, and I must have seen you on GTK surely. I especially liked your version of Tully's 'Ice' very much. I did not realise Graham sang the version on Extradition's album, which I now have. I just got hold of a copy of Tully's 'Loving is Hard', which is very special to me - first time hearing it in 35 years.

Great singing, great memories. Please keep on doing what you do!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Doug Christie
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 07:43 PM

Hi,
I have a copy of The rare "Moreton Bay" Convict Origin. LP (Score Label Melbourne.) from 1963.
Brian Mooney, Martyn Wyndham- Read, David Lumsden. I will be listing this on EBay on the next few days. Seller CHRISVINY. Wonderful Condition Mint. Regards.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 05:32 AM

can any one help me with a record or a copy of 'a wench, a whale and a pint of good ale' by martin wyndha-read etc? money no object, kerry murphy, 03 5985 6559, kerry@melbournepeninsula.com


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Woody in Hughesdale, Melbourne
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 02:42 AM

Dec 8th 2010 and I'm trying to contact Margaret Roadnight regarding a Reunion I am organising incorporating aspects of The Green Man in High St Malvern.
FYI.....The Green Man was about 80-90 metres down from Glenferrie Rd heading towards Kooyong Rd and is now a Liquor store and wine cellar.
However in the period from 1967 - 1970 it was very much part of the social formation of many a young lad from De La Salle College just down the road.

I can be contacted on :
woody707@bigpond.net.au
home/office tel no: (03) 9579 5156

Regards



Woody Wilson


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 06:58 AM

Margret's website with contact details


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: The Doctor
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 07:17 AM

I've just spotted this thread. I have, I believe, copies of everything Martyn has recorded, including some he'd forgotten about, on CD, although I do have some of the original LPs. Anyone who is interested in/desperate for a copy of anything can either PM me or contact me through my website www.peter-taylor-folksinger.co.uk.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Contact with Margaret Roadknight
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 08:40 AM

Thanks Sandra from Sydney....You're a doll:-)

Checked out website.....Will be in touch with Marg

Woody


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 22 June 11:41 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.