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1960's Australian Folk Albums

allanwill 18 Jul 03 - 12:56 AM
Charley Noble 18 Jul 03 - 08:41 AM
cobber 19 Jul 03 - 09:59 AM
allanwill 22 Jul 03 - 07:41 PM
Bob Bolton 22 Jul 03 - 10:24 PM
GUEST,Chris/Darwin at Work 23 Jul 03 - 05:29 AM
GUEST 23 Jul 03 - 05:40 AM
Jim McLean 23 Jul 03 - 04:15 PM
Bob Bolton 23 Jul 03 - 08:52 PM
Jim McLean 24 Jul 03 - 07:23 AM
GUEST,Bendigo 24 Jul 03 - 09:40 AM
Bob Bolton 24 Jul 03 - 09:54 AM
GUEST,Margret RoadKnight 24 Jul 03 - 08:35 PM
Bob Bolton 24 Jul 03 - 11:23 PM
GUEST,Margret RoadKnight 25 Jul 03 - 04:08 AM
GUEST,Margret Roadnight 25 Jul 03 - 04:18 AM
GUEST,Lockkeeeper 25 Jul 03 - 05:00 AM
cobber 26 Jul 03 - 07:52 AM
vectis 26 Jul 03 - 07:17 PM
GUEST,Margret RoadKnight 27 Jul 03 - 12:22 AM
Moleskin Joe 27 Jul 03 - 11:55 AM
Bob Bolton 27 Jul 03 - 08:28 PM
GUEST,ricki 27 Jul 03 - 09:42 PM
Hrothgar 28 Jul 03 - 04:56 AM
GUEST,Shimbo Darktree 29 Jul 03 - 02:54 AM
rich-joy 29 Jul 03 - 06:31 AM
Sandra in Sydney 29 Jul 03 - 09:16 AM
vectis 29 Jul 03 - 06:45 PM
rich-joy 30 Jul 03 - 02:40 AM
rich-joy 30 Jul 03 - 05:24 AM
Bob Bolton 30 Jul 03 - 08:50 AM
Sandra in Sydney 30 Jul 03 - 08:56 AM
JennyO 30 Jul 03 - 12:10 PM
Shimbo Darktree 30 Jul 03 - 12:24 PM
GUEST,MargretRoadKnight 30 Jul 03 - 08:21 PM
allanwill 30 Jul 03 - 09:05 PM
GUEST 30 Jul 03 - 10:30 PM
allanwill 31 Jul 03 - 04:03 AM
rich-joy 31 Jul 03 - 05:26 AM
Bob Bolton 31 Jul 03 - 06:55 AM
Bob Bolton 31 Jul 03 - 06:58 AM
Margret RoadKnight 31 Jul 03 - 08:18 AM
Sandra in Sydney 31 Jul 03 - 08:43 AM
Moleskin Joe 31 Jul 03 - 09:20 AM
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Subject: 1960's Australian Folk Albums Part 1s
From: allanwill
Date: 18 Jul 03 - 12:56 AM

This is a follow-on from this thread .

The records are actually on Score Records and recorded by Peter Mann Recordings, 294 Little Collins Street, Melbourne. I think Peter Mann founded Discurio Records.

The first album is A Wench, a Whale and a Pint of Good Ale (serial number POL 038) and features Martyn Wyndham-Read, Danny Spooner, Gordon MacIntyre and Peter Dickie. The (back) sleeve notes read:

From Burl Ives to Pete Seeger to Bob Dylan, the Australian Folksinging Revival has been a primarily American-orientated phenonemon. The influences of American instrumental techniques, American pop folkies, American "protest" singers, and so on, have all tended to predominate. In relatively recent times, both because of, and in spite of this pervasive American influence, Australian folk music has come into its own, yet all along, the folkmusic of the British Isles (with the possible exception of Ireland) has been under-emphasised to the point of neglect. The Revival audience's acquaintance with British folk music has hardly extended beyond the songs contained in the Sing Out Reprints, or the work of a tiny handful of local and Anglo-Saxon expatriate singers - Brian Mooney, Paul Marks, Martyn Wyndham-Read, Declan Affley, Brisbane's "Wayfarers" and a couple more. Knowledge of British contemporary song writing, other than the Lennon - McCartney variety, seems to have been confined to the MacColl - Seeger "New Britain Gazette" records on Folkways.

This record, then, is intended as a change, in that, while not a consciously representative selection, it provides some idea of the richness and variety of British folk music.

There are songs of love and songs of booze and a Child Ballad of an ever topical theme. There are songs of the sea, both the working shanties and the forebitters or foc'sle songs of the off-duty hours. And there are songs, contemporary in content, more taditional in style and structure, which have been produced by the British Revival - the work of songwriters such as MacColl, Dominic Behan, Matt McGinn, Stan Kelly, Leon Rosselson, Sydney Carter and so on, represented here by Cyril Tawney and Ian Campbell.

All that's really missing is a "big ballad" and a touch of bawdry, but that's excuse enough for another record.

THE SINGERS

Martyn Wyndham-Read: Originally from Sussex, has become one of the most popular folk-singers in the country over the last 4-5 years. A regular performer at Frank Traynor's (Melbourne), he has appeared on radio and T.V., at folk concerts and at numerous folksong coffee lounges. As well as being a fine performer of English and Scottish folksongs, Martyn has become a highly regarded interpreter of Australian material, and is currently working on his second L.P. composed entirely of Australian traditional songs.

Danny Spooner: A Londoner by birth, has been in Australia for 3 years. Before this he worked on a whaler (when many of the sea songs, for which he is noted, were learned) as a deep sea salvage tug skipper and as a lumberjack. He now sings regularly at folk places and in concerts in Melbourne, and in the last few months has teamed up with Gordon.

Gordon McIntyre: From Glasgow, first came to Australia some 6 years ago. In 1963 he returned to Scotland, travelled through Europe, became a professional folksinger and arrived back here at the beginning of this year. He has a wide repertoire of traditional and modern songs of the British Isles and is an accomplished guitarist.

The merit of the performances on this recordis that the singers do not impose themselves on the songs, wrenching them out of shape to suit styles which have no relation to traditional music as so many others have done; rather they let the songs speak for themselves. The singing is strong, sensitive, vigorous, meditative - whatever the song dictates. Where instrumental accompanimentis needed it is used with discretion, and never displayed for its own sake. All in all these three performers reflect the influence of traditional singers and their own respect for traditional music without being pedantic in a rigid adherence to particular traditional singing practices ( for example, their use of harmony in the shanties whereas this seems to have been the exception rather than the rule among all but negro seamen). For, as A.L.Lloyd has commented, "a tradition that remains fixed and does not evolve becomes atrophied". What must be achieved, is an extension to the tradition from within its own (somewhat nebulous) boundaries. In this process of internal revitalisation singers such as Danny Spooner, Gordon McIntyre and Martin Wyndham-Read, play a vital role indeed.

SIDE ONE

1. The Farmer's Boy (4.09): A great favourite of Martyn's and once described by the collector Baring Gould as "One of the most popular and widely known folk songs in England".

2. The Apprentice Song (2.33): A modern industrial song by Ian Campbell, leader of Britain's foremost folk group. Sung by Martyn.

3. The Miller and the Maid (2.05): Gordon put the tune to a text collected by Cecil Sharp and printed in James Reeves' "The Idiom of the People". It is a good example of what Reeves has called the "lingua Franca", the colloquial sexual symbolism of the English countryside.

4. Er Fa La La Lo (3.20): A traditional Irish song with the message of a protest song written yesterday.

5. The Devil and the Ploughman (2.31): The theme of the nagging wife who proves too troublesome for the Devil, is certainly a popular one, being widespread in European, North American and even Indian folklore. Martyn's version is the common Sussex one of the song better known as "The Farmer's Curst Wife" (Child 279).

6. Greenland Whale Fishery (3.52): Otherwise known as "The Spermwhale Fishery", this is the classic forebitter of the British whalers. It is much older than the date given here, broadside versions going back to 1725.

7. The Hog's-Eye Man (1.50): "The words of this shanty being of the vilest are not fit to print" (Frederick Harlow). A common complaint but this capstain shanty, probably of negro origin, seems to have been particularly colourful. Hogs-eyes were barges used on the Californian coast during the rushes of '49. Danny is the shantyman.

8. Ale Ale Glorious Ale (1.46): A drinking song from the south of England, led by Martyn, and sung with obvious relish by all three.

SIDE TWO

1. Banks of the Roses (4.14): An Irish traditional ballad sung by Martyn. Colin O'Lochlainn ("Irish Street Ballads") prints a version learned from his mother.

2. I Drew My Ship (2.35): First collected in the north of England by John Stockoe. Probably a fragment.

3. The Nightingale (3.03): Apparently a West Country song, it was first printed in Bell's "Ballads and Songs of the Peasantry of England" (1857). Birds are often of symbolic importance in folksong (e.g. Child notes that the nightingale was sometimes regarded as a relayer of messages between separated lovers).

4. Whip Jamboree (3.32): A capstain or windlass shanty, this was mainly popular as a homewardbound song. Some experts give it a negro origin, others detect an Eastern influence. Anyway, its an exciting, if somewhat expurgated, song. Peter Dickie weighs in on the chorus.

5. The Oggy Man (No More) (2.42): Written by a fine West Country folk singer, Cyril Tawney. Peter Kennedy comments "This song laments the passing of a local institution, the oggy man (seller of Cornish pasties) who were driven out by hot dog stands about 1950, and also serves as a warning to sailors that those things they may take for granted when they leave port may not be the same when they return">

6. Coast of Peru (3.47): A favourite song of the whalers who rounded the Horn into the South Pacific, a run considered more dangerous and less rewarding than those in northern waters.

7. Ay Waukin Oh (2.53): Martyn sings this beautiful traditional Scottish song. The title is Gaelic for "Ever Awake".

8. Farewell to Tarwathie (3.25): Written about the middle of the last century by a Scot, George Scroggie, this song, gentle and reflective but tinged with bitterness, is one of the most beautiful of all sea songs.

MICK COUNIHAN 1966



I'll do the other two albums, Bullockies, Bushwackers & Booze and Soldiers and Sailors in the near future.

Hope these are of some interest.

Allan


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Jul 03 - 08:41 AM

Nice to see these notes posted, Allan. I didn't realize that Danny Spooner was hard at work singing back then.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: cobber
Date: 19 Jul 03 - 09:59 AM

Oh the memories that cover note evokes. I used to "live" at Frank Traynors when these guys were playing there. Being around five years younger, I idolised them and learnt an enormous amount from them about how to present a song so that the audience took ownership of it and wanted to sing along. Traynors on those days had regular singer's nights. By that I mean Mondays would be Declan Affley (now there was an artist, Tuseday would be someone else etc. This made it hard for new singers to get on, though there were often floor spots. There was a back lane behind the old Traynors (as distinct from the new one that they moved to a few doors up the road around 1970 (I think). In the summer it got incredibly hot and smoky in there and the windows would be open to the street. I remember one night, Danny and Gordon were doing their usual session and a group of idiots passing along the lane started cat-calling and being pretty offensive. Danny and Gordon put down their guitars, went out the back and gave these blokes a lesson in manners, then came back and continued playing as if nothing was amiss. Apart from the music, which was Folk till midnight then jazz, Traynors was famous for brewing the worst coffee in Melbourne. They simply threw a packet of ground coffee into a big cauldron of water and boiled it all night. You could drink it if you added whisky, but you got thrown out if you were caught, though looking back, they must have been pretty tolerant as the smell of our clandestine flasks must have filled the place. I digitised my copy of Soldiers and Sailors last year. It was pretty well worn and it took me hours to get the worst of the scratches out with Cool Edit. It was a work of love though and that album still sounds good.


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: allanwill
Date: 22 Jul 03 - 07:41 PM

Good to know that there are still copies of these records out there, cobber, but I will still continue the exercise for those that don't know them.

The next album is called Bullockies, Bushwackers & Booze (POL 039) and features Martyn Wyndham-Read, Phyl Vinnicombe and Peter Dickie with a bush band consisting of Jim Buchanan (Lagerphone), Bert Cameron (Mouth Organ), Peter Dickie (Guitar) and David Lumsden (Banjo).

The back cover sleeve notes read:

SIDE ONE

1. REEDY RIVER (5.08) The words of Reedy River are by Henry Lawson, and the tune by Sydney singer, Chris Kempster. 'Reedy River' was the central song around which was based the now famous Australian musical of the same name.

2. THE OVERLANDERS (2.50) The version here is similar to the one published in the 'Queensland New Colonial Campfire Songbook' issued in 1865. The melody is a relative of one used in England for a ballad about the highway man Dick Turpin.

3. ANDY'S GONE WITH CATTLE (2.09) The words are by poet Henry Lawson. They describe a woman's concern which was not unfamiliar in the early days of Australian history; the worry brought about by the husband leaving wife and family to find work droving cattle.

4.EUABALONG BALL (1.45) This is a more working-class version of a genteel song of the late 19th century, 'The Woyoo Ball'. Comparison between the last two lines of the last stanza and the version sung here indicates the change of tone wrought by its descent down the social ladder:

'And many there will be who will love to recall
the fun they had at the Woyoo ball'.

The English singer and folk collector, A.L. Lloyd, seems to have collected the only version of this song while working on the stations along the Lachlan River in the 1920's and '30's.

5. ONE OF THE HAS-BEEN"S (1.51) This song tells the story of an old bloke who is certainly not shearing as fast as he used to, but is accepting the passing of the years gracefully. The tune will be easily recognised as 'Pretty Polly Perkins from Paddington Green'.

6. WILD ROVER (3.25) Originally a 19th century British broadside, 'Wild Rover' was presumably brought to Australia by sailors, where it enjoyed wide currency among bush workers. Banjo Patterson was first to print a bush version in the 1924 edition of 'Old Bush Songs'.

7. YE SONS OF AUSTRALIA (3.55) This song is published in 'Songs from the Kelly Country', and a much longer version (16 verses) is found in John Manifold's 'Penguin Australian Song Book', although some verses in this version are a bit hard to take, likening Kelly's sister to an Amazon queen and the Kelly gang to the free sons of Ishmael!

8. MARYBOROUGH MINER (3.55) Again, A.L. Lloyd has noted the only version of this song known to folklorists. 'The Murrumbidgee Shearer', printed by Banjo Patterson, contains some almost identical verses. However, the more stagey touches (perhaps by Patterson himself?) in 'The Murrumbidgee Shearer' contrast with the vigorous Irish 'Come-All-Ye' style of the 'Maryborough Miner'. Some definitions may be of help:

'Longtomming, cradling, puddling, panning': different ways of washing gold from soil.
'On the cross': in defiance of the law, the opposite to 'on the square'.
'Patent Pill Machine': a revolver.
'Cockatoo': the prison - no longer in existence - on Cockatoo Island, Sydney, N.S.W.

SIDE TWO

1. CLICK GO THE SHEARS (3.45) Along with 'Waltzing Matilda' is Australia's best known song, telling of the rigours and hardships of the shearer's life both in the shed and at the end of the season. The tune is also known as 'Ring the Bell, Watchman', and another version of this song has been collected and sung by A.L.Lloyd.

2. THE WILD COLONIAL BOY (3.06) This most popular song has had many versions collected throughout Australia. It replaced another bushranger ballad 'Bold Jack Donohue' as being the most widely and enthusiastically sung bush folk ballad, and at the time (1840's-50's) was most subversive of respect for authority and the rights of property.

3. O'MEALLY'S SHANTY (2.20) 'O'Meally's Shanty' was written by Kenneth Cook, of the A.B.C. in Sydney. It is based on the fact that O'Meally's shanty was the meeting place for the Lachlan bushrangers. His daughter, Kate, was a friend of Ben Hall.

4. PUT A LIGHT IN EVERY COUNTRY WINDOW (2.38) Written by Don Henderson, probably our best known singer-songwriter of topical songs, after a trip through the great Snowy Mountain Hydro-Electric Scheme. Although particularly known for his more political songs, 'Put a Light' is certainly one of his most popular compositions.

5. 'ARD TACK (3.44) 'Ard Tack was recorded at the home of Mr. Jack Davies, a pioneer soldier-settler of the Leeton District on the Murrumbidgee. He says he didn't write it, but distinctly remembers being sober the day it was written. A song any shearer would relish, particularly on that section of the Murrumbidgee where grapes and sheep are grown side by side.

6. LAZY HARRY'S (2.55) A rollicking song telling of what normally happened to a bush worker who spent long periods in the bush, then came to town to 'live-it-up'. In this song the destination was Sydney, but they never got past Lazy Harry's or the barmaids at Gundagai.

7. BALLAD OF BEN HALL'S GANG (2.56) Of all bushrangers, Ben Hall seems to come closest to the Robin Hood folk-hero ideal. Ben Hall was the good man wronged, driven by police persecution and personal hardships to outlawry, but still conducting himself with a minimum of violence and a maximum of chivalry. The songs containing his exploits are collectively the most attractive of our bushranger ballads.

8. WALTZING MATILDA (2.45) The contoversy over the origins of this song (whether Paterson did in fact write the words, or whether the tune is an imperfect version 'The Bonny Wood of Craigilea') has been revived recently by the publication of Oscar Mendolsohn's book 'Waltzing Matilda'. However, the song's popularity remains similarly undiminished, and it is undoubtedly the best known of all Australian songs.

PETER DICKIE
MICK COUNIHAN
1967

I think that the best thing about Australian songs is their simplicity. There is no real originality in them - mostly the tunes are borrowed, and on some occasions even the words are. But the songs which are wholly Australian seem to fit the words just as simply as the words fit the tune, which I feel is the basis of folk music. Essentially it is the words which are the important thing, not the tune. Perhaps one of the best examples of this is out of a song about Ned Kelly entitled 'The Battle of Stringybark Creek', where there is one particular line that goes:

'But he never saw the Kellys, planted safe behind a log,
so he sauntered back to yarnand smoke and wire into the prog'

When I first saw this word 'prog' it appeared to me rather an incredible word, and I felt that the only reason it was there was because the bloke who wrote it couldn't think of anything else to rhyme with 'grog', and I'm sure that's the way some Australian words got into usage. The reason I believe love songs are lacking in Australia is that the period when these songs were evolved was during the gold rushes, and the gold fields were certainly no place for a genteel lady. Most blokes left their wives behind, so the only women who were around at that time were the camp followers who were more intersted in the nugget than the man.

The songs that we have got together on this record are some that we enjoy doing. They range through shearing, bushranging, droving, contemporary activities. Without the Bush Band these songs would be perhaps a bit weak and inaudible. The majority of shearing songs were sung with a tremendous of gusto in extremely high keys and at the top of the singers' lungs; the bushranging songs were sung with as much defiance as was feasible; the droving songs with as much clippity-clop as the performers were capable of. I'd like to mention just two songs that Jim Sings: 'Click Go the Shears' and 'Waltzing Matilda'. The former we always have much enjoyment in performing as Jim is so enthusiastic it is contagious, and the latter we also get a great deal of fun from.

MARTYN WYNDHAM-READ

Allan


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 22 Jul 03 - 10:24 PM

G'day Allan,

Keep up the good work. It's great to have the full texts on these records - especially as I sometimes manage to get cassette copies of LPs I'm unlikely to ever find ... and there's never much beyond a title scrawled on the cassette cover!

Interesting to see that it was Martyn that started the much-repeated "furphy" about prog being a word invented, merely to maintain the rhyme. He obviously didn't bring an OED - or even a Shorter Oxford Dictionary in his swag ... and, being from the southern end of the Old Dart, didn't know much northern English. (I found myself, an Australian working on the Tasmanian and Snowy Mts Hydro Schemes in the '60s, having to "translate" between Poms from different ends of England!)

Anyway, prog is good old English word left by the Vikings in the Danelaw regions ... ~ 9th century north-east England ... a worn-down version of their word meaning forage or provender. It also occurs in The Bullockies' Ball, in the chorus:
"... Lots of prog and buckets of grog, to swig away at the bullockies' ball."

Since The Bullockies' Ball draws its tune and general shape from Finnegan's Wake, it may be that the word prog was still in use amongst the Irish, who lived a lot closer to Scandinavian sailors than Pommy landlubbers ... and the appearance of the word in a Kelly ballad seems to suggest the same.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Chris/Darwin at Work
Date: 23 Jul 03 - 05:29 AM

Memories, memories!

I also haunted Traynors back in the early 60s. My sister worked for Don Carloss, the big bloke that used to run it, and I found myself working on the door at the grand age of 17. That place started my interest in folk music. I collected a copy of Bullockies, Bushwackers and Booze, and also have a copy of Brian Mooney's album. David Lumsden's banjo playing sparked my interest in the instrument. One night the Seekers wandered in...

I took a lot of photos by candle light of Martyn, Brian and many others, using high speed B&W film - I still have those photos somewhere...

Regards
Chris


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jul 03 - 05:40 AM

Nice bit of info. on here!


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Jim McLean
Date: 23 Jul 03 - 04:15 PM

Side Two: Track 7:(Alinact) Ay Waukin Oh 'Martin sings this beautiful tradional Scottish song....' The title is Gaelic for 'Ever Awake'!!!!!!
Who researched this? Ay Waukin Oh is Scotiish English for 'Always Wakened Oh' .... as the song says '... sleep I can get nane'.
I don't believe it!
Jim Mclean


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 23 Jul 03 - 08:52 PM

G'day Jim McLean,

I'm presuming that all the actual notes given by alinact are direct OCR scans / exact typing up of what is printed on the LP sleeve ... or an insert. If that is so, you'll have to blame Mick Counihan, whose name appears at the bottom ... not Allan. Presumably, Mick was not a schooled in Irish Gaelic as kids in Ireland are today ... and the tendency of Anglophones to confuse 'Braid Scots' with Scots Gaelic was all too common back then.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Jim McLean
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 07:23 AM

Hi Bob,
I wasn't blaming Allan, only the sleeve notes' writer. I wonder how the singer felt to be told he was singing in Gaelic?
Slainte,
Jim Mclean


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Bendigo
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 09:40 AM

Hi...I've been trying for a long time to locate a copy of A.L.Lloyds "Outback Ballads" Topic 12T51 Could anyone help me/direct me ? Or perhaps do me a tape ?
         Any help would be gratefully accepted.
                         Regards    Robin


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 09:54 AM

G'day Bendigo,

Back when Warren Fahey still had Larrikin Records, he re-released some of the Lloyd canon on CD ... it's a bit late to find it now (I turn into pumpkin if I don't get of the 'net by midnight ... 6½ minutes hence!

I'll see what I have ... but Festival, who bought Larrikin have dropped all the folk stuff now ... so finding it would be a problem anyway ... ?

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Margret RoadKnight
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 08:35 PM

Great to read these mentions & reminiscences of the 'early' Melbourne folk scene, especially of TRAYNORS (which ended up being the longest running 7-nights-a-week folk club in the world, BTW).
My first album was recorded there ("People Get Ready", '73) and that, strangely, turns out to be the only album ever recorded at the venue.
And my next (MOVING TARGET..>>>>harder to hit", released next month) contains a photo of me performing with Frank Traynor's Jazz Preachers (which used to take over from the folk sngers after midnight on Saturdays) and a dedication to Frank..... "the first to link my folk singing with jazz and blues, and to explain the mathematical magic of music to me".
More background, etc, on my website -
http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~margretr
I can be emailed from there if folk from 'those days' want to make contact.
Cheers & thanks
Margret RoadKnight (now living in Brisbane)


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 11:23 PM

G'day Margret,

Ah yes ... lovely albums! I'll have to go and get the real vinyl item off the record shelf ... and dust it off so I can check the photo at Traynors. I've mostly been listening to cassette dubs, in the car, when I need a serious distraction from the surrounding reality!

I guess it's too much to expect all your prolific early recordings to ever turn up on pretty little CDs ...?

BTW: Did I ever get the chance to show you the black & white photos of yourself, from the two major concerts in Adelaide ... (Australian) National Folk Festival, 1971? (I have some faint memory of waving them at you at a mid-late '90s National in Canberra ... possibly the one with Ade Monsborough ... ?)

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Margret RoadKnight
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 04:08 AM

G'day Bob - Good to hear from you.

I'd sorta forgotten that the portrait cover shot on that first album -alas only available on cassette now - was also taken at Traynors (though posed for in an upstairs room).
Pleased to report that 18 tracks from the following 4 albums were released recently on CD ("Silver Platter - The Collection '75-'84") when Festival Records finally dipped back into their archives.
No, I don't recall seeing those early B&W pics of yours .... when I come across my colour snaps from the last National Festival, there'll be one of you & I with Margaret Fagan.... perhaps we can arrange a swap (I'll need your address).

And apropos of 'early Melbourne folk luminaries', apparently yesterday's (Thurs) Australian newspaper had a Glen Tomasetti obituary.


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Margret Roadnight
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 04:18 AM

Greetings also to Guest Chris (Darwin).
I'd love to think there was a also possibility of seeing your B&W photos from Traynors..... I'm doing an around Australia singing tour next year - maybe you'll still be in Darwin, and have found those pics by then.......
Cheers, Margret


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Lockkeeeper
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 05:00 AM

Very interesting to read these things about the Australian Folk Scene and clubs. Were the Seekers a part of the scene then or had they already crossed over to pop?


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: cobber
Date: 26 Jul 03 - 07:52 AM

Hi Lockkeeper,
As I remember it, there was almost a two tier sort of folk scene around Melbourne with the "hard-core" folkies centred around Traynors where they sang a lot of English, Irish and Scottish songs plus some blues or at the Bush Music Club where the music was either Australian or the English, etc. songs that had been collected here. Then out in the suburbs there were lots of little coffee lounges where you were more likely to hear "pop" folk. Also in this category were the church youth clubs that ran folk nights. These were good places for younger musicians (like myself) to practice their art but they would also often hire the top line artists and fill the bill with locals so there was a lot of cross over. If I remember rightly, the Seekers played at a coffee lounge in Toorak called the treble clef (where they met Judith Durham) and took off after that. Mind you as the marbles get shaken around with age, this could all be a load of old cobblers so correct me if you like.


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: vectis
Date: 26 Jul 03 - 07:17 PM

I still have one of Chad Morgan's records here in Sussex. The Shiek of Scrubby Creek.....
Great fun. Is he still with us BTW???


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Margret RoadKnight
Date: 27 Jul 03 - 12:22 AM

Well, there were The Seekers, and The Seekers....
Originally just the 3 guys, then Judith joined them (for a while they were known as Judith Durham & The Seekers), then again just by their original name....
I recall being one of only 12 people in the audience (matching the number of performers on stage, BTW) at what was their final Austraian concert - Emerald hill Theatre, South Melbourne - before they sailed off to England in hopes of making it big....
And almost 40 years ago replacing Bruce Woodley at The Reata in Prahran to score my first 'residency', not to mention replacing Judith Durham as the vocalist with Frank Traynor's Jazz Preachers....


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Moleskin Joe
Date: 27 Jul 03 - 11:55 AM

Sorry to but in on the nostalgia but I have a couple of LP's by someone called Lionel Long. The sleeve notes claim him as Australia's foremost folksinger. I rather think not though there are plenty of interesting songs. Can anyone date these records and say what became of him.
Cheers.


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 27 Jul 03 - 08:28 PM

G'day Moleskin Joe,

I think Lionel Long appeared at the height of the "Folk Boom". I remember my Dad buying some of his LPs in the early '60s. He was always aiming (or being aimed by the recording companies) towards a more "commercial" style of presentation and arrangement. He did include a few interesting versions and variants - and published a song book based on his LPs ... but he got a long-running role as a detective in an Australian 'Cops & Robber" TV show called Homicide and faded from the music scene.

I have a CD re-release of his material - more for the interest than the pleasure. I did hear that he died, a few years back.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,ricki
Date: 27 Jul 03 - 09:42 PM

Hi vectis,
Well yes, Chad Morgan is still around. Each year he performs at the tamworth country music festival, and a few years ago he did a small scale tour around some country pubs down south, where I was lucky enough to catch him in concert. There was a compilation 3CD set released last year, called "The Singles Collection: Regal Zonophone and Beyond", with 65 songs, and at least two albums of new material were released in the 90s. One is called "Been Then, Done That, Gonna Do it Again", but I can't remember the other.


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Hrothgar
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 04:56 AM

Lionel Long also put out a book, in conjunction with Graham Jenkin, called "Favourite Australian Bush Songs" - published by Rigby in paperback in 1964. ISBN 0 7270 1426 9.

I have a spare copy if anybody wants it.


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Shimbo Darktree
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 02:54 AM

Yes, Hrothgar, I'll take you up on that. What other spare books have you got? I'll talk to you at the Kookaburra (or Maleny), while you go nuts trying to figure out who "Shimbo" is.


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: rich-joy
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 06:31 AM

The Melbourne(?) record company "Viscious Sloth" are working on a re-release this year (hopefully) of a rare and sought-after EXTRADITION LP from late 60s/early 70s - the data regarding this recording that I THOUGHT I had at my fingertips on the 'puter, has tonight eluded me - but I MUST have the hardcopy data SOMEwhere!!
When I find it, I'll post it ...
(Can't recall at this moment though, whether or not the recording will include Colin Dryden, but has of course Shayna Karlin and Colin Campbell and others ...)

Re Lionel Long - I do remember that me Mum and I used to like the setting of Leon Gellert's poem "Anzac Cove" that he did ... and "Reedy Lagoon" was quite pleasant (in a 60s kinda way!!)

Re A.L.Lloyd query - I was able to purchase "The Old Bush Songs" on CD by Larrikin, from a storefront music shop about 18 months ago, if that's anything to go by ...

Cheers!
R-J


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 09:16 AM

Rich-Joy

I have the vinyl Extradition beside me - I got it out of it's (fake) milk crate a couple of weeks ago when I was reading the notes for the National 35th anniversary double CD! NOw all I have to do is find the CD under the pile of useful stuff. Not easy with a splitting headache, but I did manage to find it.

Track 6, Extradition - Honeychild, (lineup includes Colin Dryden). Notes mentioned that the later lineup (excluding this Colin) produced one album & I realised I owned it & could replace it with a shiny new CD. I have the contact details for Viscious Sloth stuck on my phone at work & really must contact them. What a great name for a recording company.

sandra (who never heard Extradition live, just bought the record second hand for $2 from Lawson's)


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: vectis
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 06:45 PM

Nice to hear that Chad is still treading the boards.


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: rich-joy
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 02:40 AM

Sandra! DON'T "replace" your EXTRADITION LP record, unless you're hard of cash, that is - apparently it's worth big bucks!!!
I still haven't found my data, but I'll look tonight ...

BTW, I wonder if anyone ever put together a compilation of Colin Dryden songs (other legends like Declan Affley and Harry Robertson and Don Henderson all have recordings - and even Dave Alexander!!!).
Maybe there just weren't enough captured of him "straight"!!
I guess Marg Walters may know, as she was helping an O/S Rellie gather history on Colin a few years back ...
Maybe some 'catter will enlighten me, eh?!

Cheers!
R-J


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: rich-joy
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 05:24 AM

Found It!!
a record review of EXTRADITION's "Hush" (1971 on Sweet Peach) on the Camera Obscura website by one Tony Dale, mentions that this recording is more appreciated overseas than at home and garage sale copies have sold for at least $1500!!!

For info on Extradition and Tully, checkout :
http://www.borderlinebooks.com/australia/
and
http://www.geocities.com/domnei.geo


Sorry to go all acid-folky on this thread!!
PLEASE continue with the recollections of the 60s (and early 70s) in Oz and detailing the early recordings - it is of great interest to many of us!!!

Cheers! R-J


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 08:50 AM

G'day R-J,

Down at this year's NFF I bought, from Dave Brannigan ([03] 9762 2453) a CD of (mostly) gig/session recordins of Declan Affley - made up as a CD-R. I gather that Colin Dryden is the next in line for the same sort of CD-R ... but you would have to check that out with Dave.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 08:56 AM

Rich-Joy - I wasn't planning to get rid of the vinyl, it's too beautiful. Replace = buying CD versions of stuff I own & I've been doing that for years now. I don't have many records (about a dozen, maybe 20) & can't play them anymore. Some I have on tapes, some originals, others copied yonks ago on cheap Sony tapes but still usable, but I rarely play 'em.

Then I read your second post & wished I had lots more records as they might have funded my retirement. Some time back I read an article on Baby Boomers & learnt I'm going to be one of the Boomers living in genteel poverty. Some folks own zillions of records ... I hope I'll be able to afford the National & Jamberoo & the occasional CD.

The makers of the Declan Afflay CD are apparently going to make others, including I think Colin Dryden. Ask Bob Bolton for more info as he has a better memory than me & knows lots of useful stuff

sandra


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: JennyO
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 12:10 PM

Gee I'd better go and look at my records and see what I've got! What a shame I just gave back a whole crate of records to a certain person!

Jenny


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Shimbo Darktree
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 12:24 PM

Goodness gracious, all that money! I've got Lenore Somerset, Patsy Biscoe, Alex Hood, Bob Hudson (without doing a comprehensive check)... makes me think I should pass them on to Christies to auction, before the artists re-record on CD. After all, Margret RoadKnight has been re-recording (haven't you Margret?), and the results are excellent, with extra numbers and often a live concert as bonuses (no, the concerts are not free bonuses ... just bonuses). Speaking of which, if you are in or around Brisbane on 13 August, Margret has a live concert launch of a CD ... go to her web site (which she gives earlier in this thread), and contact her.


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,MargretRoadKnight
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 08:21 PM

Hi Shimbo Darktree (whoever you are - great alias) and thanks for the mention.
Yes, I've got a CD launch/ concert (and 60th birthday celebration!) on Wed 13 August (a public holiday here in Brisbane) at the 280-seater Judith Wright Centre in The Valley, at the baby boomers' civilized hour of 7pm.
[For more info anyone can email me - margretr@ihug.com.au ]
As for the CD contents : 12 tracks were released on LP back in '87, and the 4 bonus songs mean the expanded line-up now includes the late Chicago pianist Little Brother Montgomery, UK guitar hero Bert Jansch, Latin band Papalote, and amazing singers Judy Jacques & Jeannie Lewis, amongst others......
Speaking of great Australian performers from 'those days'.... I particularly cherish my copy of the Extradition album (signed by Shayna Stewart/ Karlin), because my favourite male Oz singer Graham Lowndes guests on Colin Campbell's atmospheric composition "Ice". (I loved it so much it became the title song of my '78 LP, and that version is once again out there on a compilation CD)
Graham Lowndes, BTW, now lives in Fremantle, and despite health problems, is still singing brilliantly, though only sparcely represented on CD - unnamed Band of Angels 2nd lead on ABC Music's "Black Gospel Down Under", and his wonderful 1969 version of Black Jack Gypsy on "The National..35 years of the National Folk Festival"


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: allanwill
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 09:05 PM

Great to see Margaret Roadknight dropping in here. I first saw Margaret at one of those suburban coffee lounges cobber mentioned, the Green Man, located in Toorak Road, Malvern (I think).

Anyway, the third record is:

FOLKSINGERS OF AUSTRALIA SERIES, VOLUME TWO

SOLDIERS AND SAILORS (POL. 041)

SHAYNA KARLIN - from Brisbane "A Brisbane Lady"

GORDON McINTYRE - from Glasgow "Highly thought-of Scottish Round Singer"

DANNY SPOONER - from London "Singer and teller of Naughtical Yarns"

MIKE BALL - from Bath "The last of the steam-concertina players"

SIDE ONE

1. PEGGY AND THE SOLDIER. (Trad.) 2.05
   Shayna, Danny and Gordon - Unaccompanied.

2. THE RAMBLING SOLDIER. (Trad.) 3.00
   Danny, accompanied by Mike - concertina.

3. FOLLOW ME UP TO CARLOW. (P.J.McCall) 1.45
   Danny and Gordon - unaccompanied.

4. THE DESERTER. (Trad.) 2.40
   Shayna, Danny and Gordon - unaccompanied.

5. ALL THINGS ARE QUITE SILENT. (Trad.) 3.05
   Shayna, accompanied by Mike - concertina.

6. THE CUTTY WREN. (Trad.) 2.25
   Danny and Gordon - unaccompanied.

7. BRAVE WOLFE. (Trad.) 4.05
   Gordon - vocal and dulcimer.

8. SUCH A PARCEL OF ROGUES IN A NATION. (Robert Burns.) 3.05
   Gordon - vocal and guitar.

SIDE TWO

1. NORTH SEA HOLES. (Ewan McColl.) 2.15
   Danny and Gordon - guitar accompaniment.

2. THE FEMALE RAMBLING SAILOR. (Trad.) 3.25
   Shayna, accompanied by Mike - concertina.

3. ADMIRAL BENBOW. (Trad.) 3.15
   Danny - vocal and guitar.

4. THE GOLDEN VANITY. (Trad.) 3.25
   Gordon, accompanied by Mike - concertina.

5. THE SAILOR DECEIVED. (Trad.) 2.00
   Danny - unaccompanied.

6. MY DONALD. (Owen Hand.) 2.40
   Shayna, accompanied by Gordon - dulcimer.

7. SALLY FREE AND EASY. (Cyril Tawney.) 2.50
   Danny and Gordon - guitar accompaniment.

PEGGY AND THE SOLDIER - Martin Carthy says of this song: The unfaithful wife going off to sea with her lover, deserting husband and child, is a common enough subject for ballads, witness the House Carpenter; but the clarity with regard to the state of mind of the characters, missing in many variations on the theme, is crystal clear throughout this particular one. It is uncommon in this form, having been reported from tradition only a couple of times and printed in the Journal of the Folksong Society (EFDSS) in 1930 (No. 34).

THE RAMBLING SOLDIER - This version was collected by Gardiner from George Digweed of Hampshire (1904). Although Parliament never passed an act stopping the use of press-gangs in England the practice gradually faded out, and the "Recruiting Sargeant" with his "gift" of the "King's or Queen's Shilling", became once more the method of acquiring men for the Services. Looking very resplendent in his uniform he would roam the countryside telling fine tales of adventure and great deeds with the object of enticing the young men to enlist. However, it seems in this song at least his job wasn't "all work and no play". Mike's accompaniment to this boastful song is appropriately playful.

FOLLOW ME UP TO CARLOW - The words of this stirring song of battle were written by P.J. McCall, describing the great victory over the English by the Irish at Glenmalure in the late 16th Century. It is said the tune was first played by the pipers of Feagh MacHugh O'Byrne, the hero of the battle, who then led his army against Carlow.

THE DESERTER - The constant wars between England and France during the 18th Century caused the supply of new recruits into the British army to be of prime importance. A law was passed empowering officers of the King to take men (under press warrant) from almost any walk of life to serve in the field or on board one of His Majesty's ships. This song, full of pathos, dates probably to the mid-1700's and tells of a young man who suffered such a fate and of his attempts to desert.

ALL THINGS ARE QUITE SILENT - Appalling conditions on board ships of the "king's Navee" in the 18th and early 19th Centuries meant plenty of work for the men of the press-gangs. After having raised as many recruits as possible by posting patriotic bills in the market towns around the seaport, the captains of the ships of the line would send out press-gangs to search the courts, the streets and the inns. If these methods brought in insufficient numbers they would not stop short of dragging a man from his marriage bed. The haunting first verse, where the press-gang breaks in on a scene of idyllic peace and tranquility, recalls the more familiar ballad "The Lowlands of Holland". But the stoic dignity of the wife in this song is in marked contrast to the violent grief of the other girl. The song has been collected only once in British tradition, by R. Vaughan-Williams in Sussex in 1904. The concertina here emulates the effect achieved by the medieval portative-organ used to accompany British folk singer, Shirley Collins.

THE CUTTY WREN - Dating from the 14th Century, this song was almost certainly a magical or totem song. In the opinion of A.L.Lloyd it took on a strong revolutionary meaning during the peasants' revolt 1381. In countless legends the wren features as a tyrant and it would seem that, in this song, it became the symbol of baronial property, for which preparation for the seizure and redistribution to the peasants was to be carried out in the greatest secrecy. Hence the symbolism and hidden meaning. An excellent version of this ancient song has been collected by N. O'Connor from Simon McDonald of Crewick, Victoria, 1963.

bRAVE WOLFE - After weeks of futile attempts to take Quebec by first bombarding the town, then by trying to force the French, led by Montcalm, from their position near the town, Wolfe and about 4000 men - all that was left from his original 8000 troops - landed at night about two miles upstream. They climbed the Heights of Abraham and next morning drew up in battle array behind the French. Montcalm sent his army to "smash the English". However, the English held their fire until their foes were within forty yards range, completely routing the French. Within minutes the battle was over. Wolfe, who was mortally wounded in the battle, was reported as saying as he breathed his last, "I shall die happy". Montcalm, who was also killed, is not reported as saying anything!

SUCH A PARCEL OF ROGUES IN A NATION - The Union of 1707, bitterly opposed by many Scots, inspired much political balladry. This song, written by Burns, and published in Volume IV of "Scots Musical Museum", accuses the pro-Union faction in the Scottish Parliament of literally being "bought and sold for English gold". A pro-Union Whig song of 1707, which also uses the phrase "parcel of rogues" was probably written in reply to the Jacobite song.

NORTH SEA HOLES - This song, written by Ewan McColl, forms part of the narration in the musical documentary "Singing the Fishing", one of the radio ballads produced by McColl and Charles Parker for the B.B.C. The song describes the work of the herring fishermen who live along the east coast of England and Scotland.

THE FEMALE RAMBLING SAILOR - Dr. Edgar Waters says of this song: The story of a girl dressing as a man and serving as a sailor in the navy is certainly not an uncommon one in English broadside ballads of the 18th and 19th Centuries. But although this ballad of the Female Rambling Sailor is on a familiar enough theme, I have not been able to trace it in the broadside ballads. It seems sufficiently clear from the style of the ballad that it is English and of 18th or early 19th Century origin. The melody also appears to be English and is of rather an interesting and unusual construction. This version of the song was collected by R. Michell and N. O'Connor from Mrs. Catherine Peatey of Brunswick, Victoria in 1959.

ADMIRAL BENBOW - This song refers to the action of August 19-24th, 1702, between Benbow and the French squadron under Admiral du Casse off the coast of Santa Maria in the West Indies, Benbow, deserted by two of his ships, the Greenwich and Defiance, engaged and defeated the French. Severely wounded, he returned to his base where he caused Captains Kirby and Wade to be shot for desertion. He later died from the wounds he received. Benbow was affectionately known to his men as the "Brother Tar" because of his service before the mast as an ordinary seaman before his promotion.

THE GOLDEN VANITY - In some versions of this widely-known ballad the enemy is Turkish or French or, as in this case, Spanish, but rarely does it end happily. This one, collected by A.G. Gilchrist from W. Bolton of Lancashire, who explained the "black bear skin" was the cabin boy's covering at night and that he wished to wear it as a disguise from the enemy.

THE SAILOR DECEIVED - This three verse lament, from the Hammond and Gardiner collection, is a fragment of a far longer ballad. Despite its brevity, few songs on the theme of the jilted sailor capture the heartbreak so completely.

MY DONAL - Written by Scots singer, Owen Hand, himself a sailor. This beautiful song tells of the fears and loneliness of the women awaiting the return of their men who sail "southwards in search of the whale".   

SALLY FREE AND EASY - Cyril Tawney, an ex submariner fron Plymouth, Devon, says the song refers to a "little affair" he had out in Malta. In its verse form this was an attempt at an English equivalent of the blues. To avoid the blues rhythm he used an accompaniment suggested by the throbbing sound of a diesel engine when a submarine is "doing a charge" in harbour.

NOTES COMPILED BY THE SINGERS - 1968

Just for the record, I have just copied these notes from the record sleeves. Whether their accuracy has changed over the last 35 years I'll leave to the scholars to debate.

Allan


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 10:30 PM

Hi Allan
Will you settle for The Reata? (same address, earlier incarnation).
In fact not only was that my first 'residency', but it was the first coffee lounge in which I ever heard a folk singer - Paul Marks.
(Of course, I may have sung there later... so many venues, so many years ago)
Cheers
Margret


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: allanwill
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 04:03 AM

G'day Margret. First off, I apologise for misspelling your name - I should have read your web site before commenting!

I remember the name The Reata, but it would have been about 1970/71 when I first saw you so I'm not sure. It's scary how these nostalgic reminiscences make you realise how many of those little grey cells you've lost over the years.

Good luck with the CD launch and concert.

Allan


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: rich-joy
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 05:26 AM

Thanks Bob (and Sandra) for that info about the Declan and Colin CD-Rs - I'll call Dave B. ASAP!
My Partner, Paul Lawler, (who was apparently known as "Little Declan" by many, in those early daze in the 60s Sydney folk scene), will be very pleased to hear that some more recordings are surfacing!!

[Just in case anyone remembers Paul - from the 70s onwards, he lived and sang via the infamous Top End Folk Club in Darwin (with sojourns in Ireland, England and Sweden) for 20 or so years - and for the last 10 years, has been a Maleny, Queensland resident and now runs the monthly "A Bit of Folk on the Side" night - I have to keep bludgeoning him to make the bugga sing, though!!!!!]

Cheers!
R-J


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 06:55 AM

G'day again,

Rich-Joy: Sorry I could only give you a 'phone number - the CD has e-mails for the Audio boffin ... and the layout artist ... but not for Dave! I guess you could try an e-mail to Johnny Hi-Fi, who did the digital restoration and remastering to see if they working on a Colin Dryden CD-R: johnnyhifi@optusnet.com.au should get them. Dave is the bloke who would know what was planned, but not yet in train.

Hrothgar: I think my early-morning thought processes have definitely gone downhill since I decided I was drinking too much coffee ... and substituted 3 cups of green tea, during the working day! Anyway, the mispelling of Graham Jenkin's name was the least of the stuff-ups in that series of postings!

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 06:58 AM

Oops ...

Not to mention responding to Hrothgar's comments in tne wrong thread!

Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Margret RoadKnight
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 08:18 AM

Obviously time to admit to any possible mistakes & ommissions -

Allan - sounds like it definitely was at The Green Man (however, wasn't the location High St, Prahran?), and thanks for the wishes!

Re Graham Lowndes on CD - how could I have forgotten that he recorded his classic "Till Time Brings Change" with Jeannie Lewis & yours truly on my "Fringe Benefits" CD in '93...?


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 08:43 AM

Margret - welcome to Mudcat

I was still in high school in the 60's so am catching up on the music of the time - I'm also very new (6 years) in the folk world & as I'm an obsessive collector I'm buying everything I can find, local & imported.

This is a great thread.

sandra


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Moleskin Joe
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 09:20 AM

Thanks for the info Bob.
Cheers.


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Margret RoadKnight
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 07:11 PM

Sandra - Many thanks - Great to be here.
Do come & say Hi if you're at Jamberoo (closest I'll be to your neck of the woods in the foreseeable)


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: DaveA
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 08:58 PM

Margret, Alan et al,

As I remember it, there was Reata in the City (Little Bourke St) quickly followed by Little Reata in High St Malvern. Both were active in the early 60's. Reata gradually became more of a restaurant but Little Reata became the home of Paul Marks, Martyn Wyndham-Reid and Brian Mooney. A fire intervened sometime in the 60's and Little Reata was eventually reopened as The Green Man under the benign supervision of Tom Mill. But the magic of the early days had gone.

Interestingly, it resurfaced 12-15 years later when Andrew Pattison opened The Troubadour in Bowan Crescent (later relocated to Brunswick St) & provided a Melbourne venue to Eric Bogle in his early days. I still remember his rueful comments after Malcolm Frazer lost the election in the early 80's "I'm glad the bastards gone but sad I've just lost half of my repertoire". I guess that is a problem he doesn't have these days.

Ironically, The Troudadour also succombed to fire in 1989 and now survives as a treasured memory (& a good out of town weekend festival at Campaspe Downs each November).

Cheers

Dave


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Margret RoadKnight
Date: 01 Aug 03 - 01:57 AM

Dave - Close......
The Reata in Malvern was the first, followed by the larger Little Reata (confusing, I know) in "downtown Melbourne, so it's The Reata which became The Green Man.
Thanks for all that background and those dates.
BTW, this year I"ll be on the Troubadour's November festival for the first time (could have happened sooner, as I was the first S.R.O. performer at their Brunswick St venue).
Cheers
Margret


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: allanwill
Date: 01 Aug 03 - 02:46 AM

Fair dinkum, I'm getting all goose-bumpy reading all this stuff. What with Traynor's, the Polaris Inn, the Green Man, etc., that was my entire social life.

Now, what was that other folk club/coffee lounge just a couple of blocks away from Traynor's? The Lemon Tree hotel comes to mind but I'm not sure that's what I'm thinking of.

Allan


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Margret RoadKnight
Date: 01 Aug 03 - 09:07 AM

Allan - Perhaps you're thinking of The Outpost Inn ("Paris end of Collins Street")?
Can't remember exactly when it started (late '60s) but before long I was booking the acts for it, which means I gave their first gig to the Capt Matchbox boys (when they were still called the Jelly Bean Jug Band).
Cheers
Margret


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Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: rich-joy
Date: 02 Aug 03 - 02:13 AM

According to my partner, Paul Lawler, this would've been 67 or 68. He used to attend the Outpost Inn in Collins St to play chess and argue with the catholic priests who ran it!! (He also frequented Traynor's and remembers darkness, barrels, candles - and Danny & Gordon, of course!!)

Re EXTRADITION (whom I never saw, BTW - I was in West Aussie), Paul says he remembers seeing them at a concert in Sydney Town Hall around 69? and with Colin Campbell, Colin Dryden, Shayna Karlin on stage - and maybe the youngest of the Gillespie Bros on percussion??? Anyway, he said it was fabulous, ground-breaking stuff at the time and would DEARLY LOVE to get hold of a recording of THAT concert - any takers???!!!

Bob, re the Colin Dryden recordings, Evan Matheson has just informed me that "The Man" to talk to on Colin would be Derrick Chetwynd, who now lives in Brisbane, so I may do that too!

Cheers!
R-J


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Mudcat time: 6 April 9:15 AM EDT

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