someone please help me find a concertina

Subject: someone please help me find a concertina
From: Gilly
Date: 21 Jul 03 - 04:48 PM

A very nice man suggested i post a message here so here goes...
I have been learning to play concertina on an old battered bastari with wonkey buttons that stick frequently. I need to find something decent to play, nothing fancy,30 buttons, anglo, not TOO embarrasing to take to a session.
can anyone help me find one. I have been bidding on ebay but i can't compete with the dealers and collectors.
someone out there must have one not being played, i could give it a good home.Fingers crossed.
Gilly.

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 21 Jul 03 - 04:58 PM

Gilly,

Look at the Button Box (www.buttonbox.com). They offer a number of decent instruments all along the spectrum of price, and they are now manufacturing mid-pricerange instruments that are quite good -- called the Morse Concertina.

Have fun!

Jerry

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 21 Jul 03 - 05:10 PM

Here

is the link from Jerry.

Good luck in your search Gilly

Khatt

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jul 03 - 06:31 PM

Considering the cost of international shipping you might get some more useful tips if you tell us what country you are in.

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: nutty
Date: 21 Jul 03 - 06:45 PM

You could try here

Concertina net

They have a forum and buy/sell section

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: Musicman
Date: 21 Jul 03 - 07:02 PM

i have a wheatstone duet, playable.. needs a bit of work.... padss/springs, if that tweaks your interest at all........
\musicman...

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 21 Jul 03 - 07:46 PM

http://freespace.virgin.net/p.hood/for_sale__two_concertinas.htm
One here, only 20 buttons though.
Peter

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: alanww
Date: 21 Jul 03 - 07:55 PM

Try Chris Algar at concertina.co.uk. After all he is the biggest dealer in the world!
"Dancing and singing, bell ringing!"
Alan
PS I am a proud owner of a 56 button, metal-ended Lachenal Edeophone English concertina dated around 1906 ...

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: Musicman
Date: 22 Jul 03 - 01:11 AM

pss.. i am also a proud owner of 1)an 1890's 48 button wheatstone treble and 2)an 1850's lachinal duet...... love the instruments....

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: GUEST,Rich A
Date: 22 Jul 03 - 04:33 AM

I'm about to sell a 30 button anglo. It's a Marcus, three years old but has hardly been played and not a scratch on it. Sounds and looks really good for a modern concertina and the action on it is excellent and is easy to play.
Only reason I'm selling it is that I bought a new Castagnari.

Rich

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: treewind
Date: 22 Jul 03 - 04:39 AM

I'll second that vote for Chris Algar - I haven't bought anything from him myself but I've seen other people's concertinas that came from him and very nice boxes they were too (including one of Mary's). An honest trader in a marketplace with some very shady corners in it...

Unless you can get what you want in a private sale, of course.

Anahata

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: Gilly
Date: 22 Jul 03 - 04:40 AM

OH! Rich!
   that sounds brilliant,how do i contact you?
Gilly

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: GUEST,RichA
Date: 22 Jul 03 - 04:45 AM

Hi Gilly,

Drop me a line at

[e-mail]

Rich

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: Gilly
Date: 22 Jul 03 - 04:52 AM

I forgot to say that im in england> OOps
Gilly

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: GUEST,RichA
Date: 22 Jul 03 - 04:58 AM

That's ok, I'm in Sheffield.

Rich

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: Gilly
Date: 22 Jul 03 - 05:03 AM

oh! im not too far from you then,only about an hours drive.
i have e-mailed you. thanks Rich.
Gill

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: GUEST,T-boy
Date: 22 Jul 03 - 08:10 AM

Was Lachenal really making duets in the 1850's? If it's got a number like 1850 on it it's more likely the serial number.

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: Klavdivs
Date: 22 Jul 03 - 10:15 AM

Gilly if all else fails - there is a 30 button C/G Lachenal Anglo for sale in Brisbane Australia, just freshly restored by Aussie concertina-maker Richard Evans.It's had almost everything worked on and new reeds.I can vouch for Evans' repair work, and he made my own 32 button instrument. The one for sale's going for AUS$3,000, that's about 1,200 pounds sterling.

It's not mine, but owned by a friend of mine Derrick. His email is [e-mail]

Good luck

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: curmudgeon
Date: 22 Jul 03 - 07:37 PM

Gilly,

Do let us know how you make out with your quest -- Tom

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: curmudgeon
Date: 23 Jul 03 - 06:58 PM

Gilly's going to check out the concertina Thursday evening. Lets keep the thread going so that she can report back -- Tom

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: Leadfingers
Date: 23 Jul 03 - 07:38 PM

As an ex Clarinet and Sax player Free Reed instruments confuse me totally.I will stick to Banjos and such like silly things.

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: Musicman
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 01:06 AM

t-boy.. the dating is based on the serial number of 691 and a formula found on Don Nichols
concertina pages which dates this instrument ( i stand corrected ) to 1879...

my wheatstone duet we approximate date to the 1890's based on it's construction (buttons, scrollwork etc... ) and the fact that i know that it came to canada from england in 1906 with my grandfathers father in law........ and it's been in the family ever since......

musicman

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 01:51 AM

G'day,

Musicman: I know that it's thread drift ... but I keep reading of your (unqualified) duet.

So what sort (System) of duet is it? ... Given that duets come in totally different systems called: Wheatstone (really 3 or 4 Wheatstone systems, but the one least rare has 6 vertical rows of buttons) / MacCann (a modification of the 6-row Wheatstone) / Triumph (really should be called "Butterworth", as he designed it: "Triumph" is Salvation Army brand name of all their musical instruments ... and "Crane" was the SA officer who introduced it to the SA) with 5 vertical rows / Jeffries Really weird and rare ... 4 horizontal rows / Linton (Exceeding rare ... 6 vertical rows, but utterly different from Wheatstone or MacCann). Of course, this does not even mention modern Duet systems like Hayden.

My first concertina was Wheatstone System ... made by Lachenal that I bought in Tasmania for £20 ... in 1966. Nowadays, I only play the Anglo systems that were the typical traditional concertina in the Australian bush.

Wellsy : As you know Derek, I presume you are up around Brisbane way. Will we see you down south at Richard's Lithgow Concertina Gathering #2 over the first weekend of November? Richard tells me he is getting a really good response to this second one (and the first one was good fun!).

BTW: My second concertina was a 20 key Anglo in Bb/F that had briefly belonged to Derek ... before the bottom fell out of the film prop business with the bursting of the brief '70s Aussie film boom. That eventually became a really beautiful D/G with a set of reeds newly re-made by Richard. Dave de Hugard used it (in both key-sets) on his CD Magpie in the Wattle and then had Richard do a similar new set of reeds for one of his own concertinas ... unfortunately that concertina, and one other, was stolen from my car a decade back!

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 08:49 AM

I had a look at an old one in Yorkshire yesterday. Could have been a Lachenal but I suspect it is a Jones. 28 bone button and wooden fretted ends. Too out of tune to tell the keys. Brass reeds. It was a bit of a wreck and needed new bellows, some pads and, as I said, a good dose of tuning. I gues it would cost in the region of £200-£300 to have it professionaly restored and it is currently on ebay with a reserve not yet met bid of $195 from the states.

I was going to bin and, hence, keep it quiet ;-) but have seen a new Stagi for about £400 which would suit me better. The guy is between Haworth and Keithley. PM me if you want more details.

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 08:51 AM

going to bin? Freudian slip - going to BID!

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: Gilly
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 02:50 AM

Hi All,
Im going to meet Rich on sunday to have a look at the concertina wish me luck. thanks for all your help.
   Gilly

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: Ghirotondo
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 04:03 AM

By the way I too need some advice for an Anglo concertina. A friend of mine gave me a Bastari 20 buttons C/G anglo which he never used. After some wrestling I am now able to play some simple tune (irish), and I want to buy my own instrument. I live in Italy, and it would be easy for me to buy a Stagi. I was thinking of a Stagi W-15-s, for about €450.00. What do you think? I am also wondering what key shall I choose: D/A, for Irish music, is the right one?
Thanks.
Ghiro

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: stevethesqueeze
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 08:00 AM

Ghiro

in ireland the only anglo's used are 30 C/G instruments. they get the C sharp etc from the outside row. there are one or two good tutor books you can get now. Hobgoblin music have them. the Stagi will be fine for now, don't let the concertina snobs persuade you to spend thousands of euros on an expensive antique machine.

very best wishes

stevethesqueeze

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: Ghirotondo
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 09:35 AM

Hi, stevethesqueeze,
As you can see I have a very poor experiences with concertinas. When I talked of D/A instrument I was wrong, since STAGI concertinas only came in C/G or G/D. I was thinking of a G/D because most of the irish music is in the key of G or D, and although the 30 button concertina is advertised as fully chromatic, I am wandering which one would have the best fingering. Thanks for the hints.

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 09:49 AM

Ghiro,

I agree with Stevethesqueeze that a new Stagi will do very well. My first box was a 30 button Bastari (antecedent of Stagi) which still can wheeze out a decent melody after 30 years (though without the duct tape it would be of questionable playability).

You should plan on getting a 30 button instrument in C/G, tho, since that's the most common type used for Irish music; the extra ten buttons give you the accidentals needed to play in D and A, as well as the double notes in opposite directions (G, A, etc.) that are essential for playing tunes fast and fluidly.

I do know that Anglos in other keys are used in traditional Irish music. Jacqueline McCarthy plays boxes in E and A on one of her recordings. I was in The Button Box the other day and manager Doug was telling me the reason you can find Bb/F Anglos (like Bob Bolton's): they allow players to sit in with pipers whose pipes are in "old tuning" -- Bb.

Another reason for odd keys could be the one I heard explaining the existence of Eb tinwhistles: you can be pretty sure of not having anyone play along with you if you're doing a tune in that key.

Pleasing wind to you -- comprimere in aeternum!

Jerry

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 10:03 AM

Steve, I've been having a similar discussion with a friend who is considering getting a concertina. After going round and round, they finally understand that there are three advantages to buying a good quality instrument. One is the sound. Two is the mechanism, which seems to be of better quality in the more expensive units. The third is resale. When you buy a good instrument, not only is it pleasing to play but it keeps its value in case you have to resell. It is not a student instrument, meant to exist for a [relatively] brief time and then dissolve into a pile of rust and rot. There is a reason those old instruments are around. They will continue to play until physically destroyed and can be tuned up forever.

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: Ghirotondo
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 10:13 AM

Thank you all very much!
Tomorrow morning I'll go down to Florence to see what is in the shops. I'll let you know. By the way, I usually play guitar, mando & (shudder!) banjo, but I really fell in love of the little squeezeboxes...

(I am prone to fall in love with almost EVERY musical instrument, though...)

Ghiro

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 10:25 AM

I am pretty sure I will go for the 30 key Stagi as well. Played one yesterday and though it was great. Well, compared to my 30 button Hohner it was great...;-)

Price in Gobhoblin - £419. In the Music Room £389. Any advance? I'll see who offers me the best trade in on the Hohner as well though.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: stevethesqueeze
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 10:57 AM

Ebarnacle

you are right I think but only up to a point. I myself have a vaulable vintage instrument that I really love and it cost me thousands. But I know that not everyone can afford to do that. We must be careful not to look down on people who either cant afford or dont want to spend that much money, particularly new starters. The way things are going with concertina players and prices in a few years no one will be able to start playing. When i go to concertina weekends the age of the players is getting older every year and although there are always some young players they are getting rarer. Thats why I want to encourage people not to worry to much about using these really quite excellent starter instruments. Thats all.

keep on squeezing

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: Gilly
Date: 27 Jul 03 - 05:11 PM

Hello Mudcatters,
   Well it worked, I am now the very proud owner of a marcus concertina, It is million times better than the on i had. I am absolutely thrilled to bits, I played it all the way home in the car(sad or what?).
   A very big thankyou to curmudgeon who suggested i post the message,and an even bigger thankyou to Rich who came up with the goods
and a special thanks to all you mudcatters who took the time to reply to me. I am the happiest woman in the world.
Gilly xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: curmudgeon
Date: 27 Jul 03 - 05:15 PM

Good on you, Gilly! Don't get so involved with playing your new concertina that you forget to post to Mudcat now and again -- Tom

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: GUEST,Rich A
Date: 27 Jul 03 - 06:26 PM

Glad you like it, Gilly. :)
Have fun with it and hope to hear it played in a session sometime soon.

Rich A

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: Ghirotondo
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 03:48 AM

And I have just ordered the 30 keys C/G STAGI for €500 hard carrying case included. It will be delivered this week. Thank you all for the useful hints, I hope to be able to see some of you, sometimes... If you plan coming in Italy, drop me a line!

Ghiro

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: treewind
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 05:56 AM

Wow, I'm pleased to read everybody's happy now!

Bob, I'm amazed at your knowledge of duet systems - I've never heard of a Wheatstone duet system, nor of Linton, nor of Butterworth in association with Crane/Triumph.

And Jerry - one common reason for players using Bb/F instruments is that they sing in those keys and for one reason or another they aren't going to learn to play a C/G box in those keys.

Anahata

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 06:59 AM

Just learned that there is a 20 key Lachenal for sale localy. I need a 30 button so it is not much good for me but is anyone else out there interested? It says £425 on the advert here but I am sure Peter said £275.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 09:03 AM

G'day Anahata,

I got a lot of information from the Australian Concertina Magazine, which ran 25 issues between (Antipodean) Winter 1982 and 1987. Concertina was edited by Richard Evans, concertina repairer and (latterly) maker, of Bell, NSW and produced by John Ramshaw ... who contributed a steady series of concertina patent articles and analyses of different systems.

Linton is a really obscure system - but one that has preyed on my mind for decades - especially at those times when I lived in Tasmania. Linton was a virtuoso stage performer who had his totally different system of Duet made for himself and members of the family. They played to marvellous reviews ... but dad was probably not the ideal parent - on achieving majority, all his children migrated as far as possible within the (British idea of) the civilised world ... several to Tasmania. I have always harboured a hope of coming across a Linton duet in a Tasmanian music shop. (However I only ever came across the Lachenal-made Wheatstone duet system 56 key instrument that was my first concertina!)

I might say, of Bb/F Anglos, that they were very common in the 19th century ... to play with woodwind and brass instruments in those keys ... the combination appears in a number of prints and photographs of that era. They are also very handy for accompanying singers who like those keys. The band I was in, in the '80s, had a singer/songwriter who played an old 12-string guitar ... tuned down one tone. He played in - and sang in - mostly ... Bb and F. Anything else required a button accordeon ... but not very often.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: Green Man
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 09:31 AM

If you are in the UK my wife has a Lachenal concertina which she learned to play on. Its fully operational and in concert pitch. Just need dusting and a new home.

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 10:42 AM

Hi Green Man - How many button? I am in the UK and in the market for a 30 key C/G. Any good?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: someone please help me find a concertina
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 12:18 PM

I don't look down on "lesser instruments." I simply believe that in many ways you gets what you pays for. The fact that there is a market now means that the top end market is probably too high. The instrument(s) my friends are looking at are all under $1500. As such, they should hold their value quite well. Really top end is luxury or specialty market, not utility. Though I have no intent to sell Virginia, my 35 year old Wheatstone type E treble English, I know that I shall never lose value [not money] as long as I care for her. I have bought and sold 2 others during that time frame because neither was a good fit for me. One was a Lachenal Edeophone and the other was a brass reeded Wheatstone. The Edeophone helped me buy the schooner I lived on for several years.