Origins: The Lost Lady Found

Subject: Origins: The Lost Lady Found
From: GUEST,Santa
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 06:52 AM

I can't find anything in DT or Forum with any history of this song. Is the writer known? Or dates?

Subject: RE: Origins: The Lost Lady Found
From: IanC
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 07:29 AM

The song appears in the Bodleian Collection on 19th Century broadsides by:

Kiernan of Manchester
Bebington of Manchester/Beaumont of leeds (1858-1861)
H. Such of London (1863-1885)
T. Batchelar of London (1823-1832)
J. Catnach of London (1813-1838)
H. Sefton of Worcester
H. Disley of London (1860-1883)
J. Pitts of London (1819-1844)

Judging from the typeface, the Catnach or Kiernan versions are probably oldest but neither looks earlier than the 19th Century. From this evidence, the broadside version of the song is pre-Victorian with a latest date of 1828 (TAQ based on the Batchelar copy).

:-)

Subject: RE: Origins: The Lost Lady Found
From: IanC
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 07:48 AM

Lesley Nelson's Contemplator site has the following information

This appears as Gipsy Song in a collection of songs from Sussex by Rev. John Broadwood in 1843. It was found in Cheshire, Somerset, Wiltshire, Hampshire, Lincolnshire, Essex and Dorset by collectors. It is also found in the Maritime Provinces of Canada and in America.
Variants and alternate titles include: 'Tis of a Young Damsel.

This song was collected in Cheshire. Barrett notes that in London the words are sung to a tune resembling Little Bo-peep.

:-)

Subject: RE: Origins: The Lost Lady Found
From: GUEST,Masato
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 09:11 AM

Info at folktrax:

LOST LADY FOUND, THE - "It's down in a valley a young damsel did dwell - she lived with her uncle" - "gypsies betrayed her and stole her away" - Because his niece has been stolen he is sentenced to death but her lover finds the girl in Dublin and tells of her uncle's predicament and promises to marry the youth and give him money if he will take her back to England thus saving her uncle's life - LAWS #Q-31 ABBB 1957 p288 - ROUD#901 - BSs "The Gypsies" incl BG 4:#379/ 5:#13/ 6:#66/ 9:#11 - BROADWOOD OES 1843 Squire finds his love in Flanders - MASON NRCS 1877 & 1908 p56 "Tis of a young damsel" - BROADWOOD Sussex 1890 - REYNARDSON Sussex 1890 p20 "Gypsy Song" - BARRETT EFS 1891 pp74-5 Cheshire (w)/ London (m) (with note saying it was sung in the London area to the tune of "Little Bo Peep") - SHARP-KARPELES CSC 1974 pp325-6 Mrs Susan Williams, Haselbury Plucknett, Somerset 1906/ Job Francis, Shipley, Sussex 1908 1v/m/ Louisa Barrett, Cannington, Somerset 1906 (m/o) - JFSS 2:7 1905 pp99-101 Broadwood: Mrs Hill, Stamford, Lincolnsh 1893 (she danced as she sang)/ RVW: Mr Broomfield & Mr Punt, East Horndon (m/o)/ Mr Chiles, Willingale-Doe, Essex 1904 (m/o) - GRAINGER ONS #44 Alfred Atkinson & #281 Mr Burman, Redbourne, Lincolnsh 1905/ #356 Mr Hacklett & #379 Wm Martin, Winchcombe, Gloucestersh 1908 - GILLINGTON EHFS 1907 pp12-13 Hampshire "As down in a valley" - BROADWOOD ETSC 1908 p18,& pp86-91 & p123 Mrs Hill, Stamford, Lincolnsh 1893 (notes on song) - SHARP ECFS 1908-12/ 1961 pp54-57 RVW: Essex - GRAINGER #44 Alfred Atkinson, Redbourne 1905-6/ (?) Fred Atkinson, Brigg, Lincolnsh 1905/ #281 Mr Burman, Redbourne 1906/ #344 Mr Packer/ #356 Mr Hacklett, Winchcombe, Gloucestersh 1908/ #379 William Martin, Winchcombe "The 3 Gypsies" - CLAY FFS 1908 (?) p3 Mary Hayes, Hartlebury, Worcestersh 1908 "3 Gypsies betrayed her and stole her away" - VAUGHAN WILLIAMS FSEC 1908 pp12-15 Essex - UDAL DFL 1922 pp325-6 Procs of Dorset Field Club 27 1906 "The Lost Lady" - WILLIAMS #624 (w/o) - KENNEDY FSBI 1975 #347 p775 Charlie Chettleburgh (not Harry Cox as printed) - FOLKSONG RESEARCH 2 #3 Dec 1983 Clay (Worcs) 1908 --- MACKENZIE BSSNS 1928 #24 pp86- 87 Alexander Sutherland (w/o) -- Charlie CHETTLEBURGH, rec "The Windmill", Sutton, Norfolk 27/10/47: RPL 13866/ 031 (vs 2-3 omitted) - Edwin THOMAS rec by PK, Allerford, Somerset 3/5/52: RPL LP 23622/ 405 "Three Gypsies" - Harry COX rec by PK, Catfield, Norfolk 1953/ rec by Leslie Shepard 9/10/65: TOPIC TSCD-512 (D) 2000 - George "Pop" MAYNARD rec by PK, "The Cherry Tree", Copthorne, Sussex 1955: 280 - Dorothy FURBUR rec Heswall, Cheshire 5/6/57: RPL LP 23494 - "Jumbo" BRIGHTWELL rec by Tony Engle, Eastbridge, Suffolk: TOPIC 12-T-261 1975 "The Lost Heiress" - Peter PEARS & English Chamber Orch cond by Benjamin Britten arr Percy Grainger: DECCA KSX-6410 1974 cass - Vicky CLAYTON (with gtr & keyboards) Radio 2 28/2/90 CASS-30-1039

Subject: RE: Origins: The Lost Lady Found
From: GUEST,Masato
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 10:13 AM

From G. Malcolm Laws, Jr., American Baladry From British Broadsides (American Foklore Society, 1957, p. 288):

                      Q 31
               THE LOST LADY FOUND

   Mackenzie, 86, 9d (N.S. A confused text). Refs.
   Barrett, 74, 9d (London); tune from Cheshire. Broadwood, Eng. Trad. Songs, 86, 9d, m. (Lincs.). JFSS II, 99, 9d, m. (Lincs. Text from a Such broadside).
   Broadsides: (B) Catnach, 9d (Harvard VII, 185). Fortey, 9d. T. Batchelar, 9d.

Subject: RE: Origins: The Lost Lady Found
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 10:41 AM

There's also an entry at the Traditional Ballad Index. The song can be found in Kennedy, and in Folksongs of the Catskills (Cazden).
-Joe Offer-

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Lost Lady Found, The [Laws Q31]

DESCRIPTION: A young lady is carried off by gypsies. Her uncle, who is her guardian, is convicted of murdering her. Her lover follows her to Dublin and tells her of her uncle's plight. They return to England, and the uncle's life is saved
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1843
KEYWORDS: shanghaiing Gypsy trial reprieve abduction
FOUND IN: Canada(Mar) Britain(England(South,West)) US(MA,NE)
REFERENCES (4 citations):
Laws Q31, "The Lost Lady Found"
FSCatskills 63, "The Lost Lady" (1 text, 1 tune)
Kennedy 347, "The Lost Lady Found" (1 text, 1 tune)
DT 539, LOSTLADY
Notes: In reply to the charge of abduction in this piece, Kennedy writes, "While it is quite likely that some ladies of quality... did run off with the gipsies, it is not proven that abductions of 'giorgio' women ever occurred. As to the charge that gipsies are child stealers, they usually have too many children of their own to bother about increasing their problems." - RBW
File: LQ31

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Subject: RE: Origins: The Lost Lady Found
From: Santa
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 03:12 PM

Clearly I was a bit too specific when I looked for "The Lost Lady Found". Thanks for your information.

I did notice that the hero went to Dublin to find his love - knowing the Irish slave raids into western Britain that were carried out over centuries (witness St. Patrick) I did flamboyantly conceive of a race memory going back to the Dark Ages....no, not seriously.

Subject: RE: Origins: The Lost Lady Found
From: GUEST,surreysinger who has long since lost cookie
Date: 11 Oct 21 - 01:27 PM

This is an old thread which I stumbled across while looking for something else. In doing so I found that a commonly quoted date of publication for John Broadwood's "Old English Songs" had been requoted from the Contemplator website by IanC. The book was NOT published in 1843 as stated. Although the title page refers to that date it would appear that that was the date at which Dusart, the organist, who prepared the "harmonisations" completed his work. The galley proofs for the book which are held in the Surrey History Centre are clearly dated 1847, which is the correct date for publication. A small point, I realise, but an often misquoted error.

Subject: RE: Origins: The Lost Lady Found
From: leeneia
Date: 12 Oct 21 - 01:00 PM

Are there any credible records of gypsies abducting people? Any prosecutions or missing-persons reports? Anything on this topic in a reputable newspaper?

Because I suspect this song is just racist stuff that belongs in the Great Wastebasket.

A few years ago, I was standing in line outside the Louvre on a hot day, and a Roma boy about 12 years old stepped in front of me and thrust a bottle of water towards my face, wanting me to buy it. (I did.) And as I did so, I thought to myself that I had never seen skin that remarkable color - both dark and golden, with hair utterly black. No typical Irish or English white person could be mistaken for his kind.