Hunters Of Kentucky: Benjamin Botkin anecdote

Subject: Hunters Of Kentucky: Benjamin Botkin
From: Gerard
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 11:15 AM

For any fans of this great song: "The Hunters Of Kentucky" there is an article in Benjamin Botkin's "Folklore Of The Mississippi Valley" that talks about an interesting happening that actually occurred during one of the first performances of this song. If you want me to relate the story to you in this forum I can do so upon request.

Subject: RE: Hunters Of Kentucky: Benjamin Botkin
From: Sorcha
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 11:56 PM

Please do, and label it Folklore. Thanks!

Subject: RE: Hunters Of Kentucky: Benjamin Botkin
From: Sorcha
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 11:57 PM

Or, on second thought, maybe Origins would be a better title.

Subject: RE: Hunters Of Kentucky: Benjamin Botkin
From: Art Thieme
Date: 26 Jul 03 - 12:29 AM

B.A.
B.A.
Botkin,
Have you any
Folklore?

(Yes, please relate.)

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Hunters Of Kentucky: Benjamin Botkin
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Jul 03 - 11:32 AM

Actually, this thread is just fine. No need to start another. We can change the thread title, if needs be - but it's better not to split the discussion of a song into multiple threads.
I added the word "anecdote" to the thread title. Perhaps that will clarify it a bit.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Hunters Of Kentucky: Benjamin Botkin anecdote
From: Abby Sale
Date: 26 Jul 03 - 01:03 PM

Well, whilst we wait...(I'm interested, too, Gerard) here's a different anecdote from a different Botkin (Treasury of American Folklore, one of the finest books I've ever read):

In re: verse 3,

I s'pose you've read it in the prints,
How Packenham attempted
To make old Hickory Jackson wince,
But soon his scheme repented;
For we, with rifles cocked,
Thought such occasion lucky,
And soon around the gen'ral flocked
The hunters of Kentucky.

Botkin quotes Waldo's Memoirs of Andrew Jackson, 1820: "It must crimson with a blush every Englishman...when he finds it recorded, that an officer, the pride of England, [ie, Packenham - AJS] confident of capturing of one of the finest cities in America, gave it as a countersign, upon the day his army was to enter it - 'BOOTY AND BEAUTY!!'"

Subject: RE: Hunters Of Kentucky: Benjamin Botkin anecdote
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 26 Jul 03 - 06:58 PM

Looking forward to seeing Botkin's discussion.
Vance Randolph in Ozark Folksongs, vol. 4, p. 104-105, has a fragment collected from Mrs. Linnie Bullard, MO, 1926; nothing not in DT.

Noted by Randolph that it was often sung to the tune of "The Girl I Left Behind Me" and sometimes "Yankee Doodle."
Randolph says Samuel Woodworth's song was first published in "The Port Folio " (II, Dec. 1822, pp. 527-529), but the Library of Congress, American Memory, has two broadsides which they date 1815.
Dolph, in "Sound Off," 1929, stated that it was included in a collection of soldier songs edited by an army officer during the Mexican War but offers no reference.

The DT version is identical to the copy in Dolph, except that the verses six and seven are reversed. The broadsides at American Memory are also the same, except for the last line: protect ye ladies, protect you ladies, and protect your ladies. They show that the verses are reversed in the DT.
One with a design above the poem showing a half horse half alligator, is said to date from 1815 (but no date on the copy); this one ends "ye, ladies." Another, also said to date from 1815, has two poorly executed drawings, and the same ending.

Subject: RE: Hunters Of Kentucky: Benjamin Botkin anecdote
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jul 03 - 07:45 PM

The song is by Samuel Woodworth.

The proper tune for it is "Unfortunate Miss Bailey", from George Colman's play 'Love Laughs at Locksmiths'. This is a new
name for an old (song and) tune, c 1730, "Ally Croker", renamed
"Ally Croaker" in a play of 1753. The early history in Wm.
Chappell's PMOT is wrong. See song and tune "Ally Croker"
in the Scarce Songs 1 file at www.erols.com/olsonw

Subject: RE: Hunters Of Kentucky: Benjamin Botkin anecdote
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 26 Jul 03 - 08:56 PM

Before too much information is repeated:
Thread 40625, Unfortunate Mrs Bailey (Miss Bailey's Ghost). See fuller discussion by Abbey Sale, and reference to Olson's website.
Mrs Bailey

Tune also known as "Golden Days of Good Queen Bess," note by Bruce Olson on Ally (Alicia) Cro(a)ker et al., tune and lyrics in his website. See thread 16342: Hunters et al

It would be nice if Abby Sale's note rom 40625 was pasted into this thread.

---

Good idea, since I don't know that I want to crosslink song threads if all they share is a tune. -Joe Offer-
Thread #40625   Message #582257
Posted By: Abby Sale
29-Oct-01 - 06:06 PM
Thread Name: Unfortunate Miss Bailey
Subject: 5th verse

I've recently been doing a bit research on "Unfortunate Miss Bailey."  Bruce
Olson has much good background at his website that I won't repeat here.
Except that the tune for this song was, by then, in tradition but based on
"Ally Croker" by Larry Grogan, an Irish piper of the first half of
the 18th century, & traditionally credited with the composition about 1725.

The new song was written by someone only identified as "Risk" for George
Colman's "Love laughs at locksmiths," (a comic opera, in two acts.)  It
premiered on July 25, 1803 (Not worth reading, BTW.)

The play was translated word-for-word from the French, "Une Folie" with the
single addition of "Unfortunate Miss Bailey" at the very end.  The song
became a pop hit in London and also, 4 years later after the play was
pefmormed in NY, in the US.  It went immediately into tradition in both
countries and is recognized as the tune for the Battle of New Orleans song,
"The Hunters of Kentucky."

Now here's the thing.  The song's pretty standardized but Marais and
Miranda sing a 5th verse I haven't heard elsewhere.  It appears in the Levy
Collection handwritten anonymously onto the sheet music from NY but there
is no piece of this verse in the original book of the play. (I have a
microfiche copy of the book from Inter-Library Loan in front of me now.)

If you go to http://levysheetmusic.mse.jhu.edu/advancedsearch.html and
search titles for "Unfortunate Miss Bailey."  It's extremely hard to read but
I down-loaded the right-click image and played a bit.  Referring back to
Marais's singing, I get this:

               Next morn his man knocked at his door,
               He says "John, now [come] dreƒs me.
               Miƒs Bailey's got [my] one-pound note."
               John says, "Good Heavens, bleƒs me!
               I should not mind if she had ta'en
               No more than all your riches;
               But with your one-pound note, Egad!
               She's ta'en your [only] breeches."
                   Oh, Miƒs Bailey, unfortunate Miƒs Bailey,

Worth singing, I think.  I wonder if any might have any additional info on
this last verse?

Subject: RE: Hunters Of Kentucky: Benjamin Botkin anecdote
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 26 Jul 03 - 09:23 PM

The song "Ally Croker" appears in the DT as "Alley Croaker (Alicia Crocker)" with a long note about the history of the song by Bruce Olson.

The Bodleian Library has a broadside, " Ally Croker, 1820-1824, Harding B 28(60), which is essentially identical with the text in the DT.

Subject: RE: Hunters Of Kentucky: Benjamin Botkin anecdote
From: Gerard
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 12:12 PM

Here we go, (note this is from memory, I don't have the book with me.)
The song was sung in the south after the Civil War. It was sung on some southern stage, perhaps New Orleans, or South Carolina. It was somewhat like a minstrel song/performance.
The crowd begged that it be sung over and over again. On either the opening night or sometime subsequent, the singer came to the verse:

"But when so near we saw them wink
We thought it time to pop them
And it would have done you good I think
To see Kentucky pop them!"

And, when he sang this verse, he moved his arms in front of his torso and pretended that he had a rifle in his hands and was firing it.
During one of his performances, when he got to this verse, someone from the audience threw a (sharp) utensil at his head; the singer was quite frightened because it came so close to his head, that he stopped the performance and bowed and left the stage. Later on, an older man met him to apologize to him; the older man explained that he was one of the soldiers under Jackson during that fight in New Orleans and he was so excited when the singer came to that verse "To see Kentucky pop them" that the older man threw his hands out in a burst of enthusiasm and accidentally let go of the metal utensil he was holding in his hand."

(Sorry it took so long to relate this, I don't have an Internet at home and have to go to the public libraries....)

SOURCE: A TREASURY OF MISSISSIPPI VALLEY FOLKLORE, B.A. BOTKIN

Subject: RE: Hunters Of Kentucky: Benjamin Botkin anecdote
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 01:20 PM

Botkin tells the story differently in "A Treasury o Mississippi River Folklore." The lines sung before the accidental release of the missile were:

But Jackson he was wide awake, and wasn't scared with trifles,
For well he knew what aim we take with our Kentucky rifles;
So he marched us down to "Cypress Swamp"; the ground was low and mucky;
There stood "John Bull," in martial pomp, but here was old Kentucky.

"As I (James H. Caldwell) delivered the last five words, I took my old hat off my head, threw it upon the ground, and brought my rifle to the position of taking aim. At that instant came a shout and an Indian yell from the inmates of the pit..... I had to sing the song three times that night...."

Subject: RE: Hunters Of Kentucky: Benjamin Botkin anecdote
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 01:32 PM

Accidently hit submit.
"The 'Hunters of Kentucky' still pursued me like some evil genius." A few nights later, the manager persuaded the singer to do it again. At the end, when he threw his hat in the air, the missile came flying. Some 18 years later, he met the missile thrower, who was principal engineer on the steamboat on which the singer was a passenger. The engineer, who was a veteran of the Battle, became so excited that he loosed the missile, a piece of gas pipe he had picked up and was tossing from hand to hand. "I let her went, and if it had been a gold repeater watch, it would have gone in the same way."

From N. M. Ludlow, 1880, "Dramatic Life As I Found It: A Record of Personal Experience... with Anecdotes...of principal Actors and Actresses Who Have At Times Appeared Upon the Stage in the Mississippi Valley, pp. 237-238.

Subject: RE: Hunters Of Kentucky: Benjamin Botkin anecdote
From: Gerard
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 01:42 PM

Thank you for submitting the exact quote. It has been some time (4 years) since I read it and, obviously, I didn't remember all the facts surrounding it. I am curious, do you know where the stage was? Does it say?

Subject: RE: Hunters Of Kentucky: Benjamin Botkin anecdote
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 02:41 PM

New Orleans, Camp Street Theatre. A little more-
A brother had sent the singer, Caldwell a copy of the Samuel Woodward (a New Yorker, composer of the "Old Oaken Bucket") song cut from the New York Mirror. Caldwell says: "The tune, to which they [the words]seemed adapted, was taken from the comic opera of "Love Laughs at Locksmiths," being Risk's song of "Miss Bailey." The "... pit, or parquette, of the theatre crowded full of 'river men', that is, keel-boat and flat-boat men. These men are easily known by their linsey-woolsey clothing and blanket coats. There were very few steamboat men."
The singer borrowed a buckskin shirt and leggins from a river man for the performance.