ANOTHER concertina request:-)

Subject: ANOTHER concertina request:-)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 04:08 AM

Following Gill's sucess in finding a concertina I thought I would have a go! I am after a 30 button Anglo in C/G. I have seen a Stagi, which is gar superior to my current Hohner, for around £400 and can probably get a few quid trade in.

Before I take the plunge does anyone have a Lachenal/Jeffries/Crab etc in reasonable nick for around the same price? Or does anyone have any advice on or experience of the Stagi?

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: ANOTHER concertina request:-)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 04:09 AM

Sorry - should have added I am in the UK but would pay shipping if any 'muricun cuzzins have one!

Subject: RE: ANOTHER concertina request:-)
From: Ralphie
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 04:20 AM

DtG

If you ever find a Crabb or Jeffries with only two zeros in the price, I'd be astonished !! But, good luck with your quest, In my opinion always try and get a better instrument than you can afford, the incentive to practice is all the greater..

If I hear of anything...

Ralphie

Subject: RE: ANOTHER concertina request:-)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 04:51 AM

I know, Ralphie. And I didn't even dare mention Wheatstone! We can but try:-)

Subject: RE: ANOTHER concertina request:-)
From: stevethesqueeze
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 08:23 AM

Dear dave

you will if you are very lucky get a decent Lachenal for under a £1000 but you have to be sure. Some of them are absolute rubbish and are worn out as they were not expensive models when first made. Crabb can be found for about £2000 plus, take care some of them aren't quite as good as you might think good either, and jeffries can cost several thousand pounds if you can find one. Wheatstone ones are varied in price, lower than jeffries but generally higher than lachenal. Wheatstone anglos are not considered to be as good as their excellent english and duet models.

I do have a thought mind you. the anglo's being made by Marcus Music here in south wales are very impresive and are very good players indeed. they don't have the charisma of vintage instruments but they are professional quality and look great. marcus is on 01633 815612 and he has a website also. I think they start at about £800 and rise to about £1200. check them out dave I was quite impressed.

Subject: RE: ANOTHER concertina request:-)
From: curmudgeon
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 08:29 AM

You're on the right track posting this thread. After taking my advice to query here, it took Gilly less than two weeks to get a good box.

You might be surprised to find Wheatstones at much lower prices than Jeffries; good examples of this make usually run around $4000.00

You should also consider some of the newer mid-range makers, Morse, Edgley, Tedrow, Marcus, et al.

You can read all about themhere.

Happy hunting -- Tom

Subject: RE: ANOTHER concertina request:-)
From: treewind
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 10:33 AM

Stevethesqueeze: Wheatstone certainly specilazed in English rather than anglos, but if you can get a Wheatstone anglo, it will have a more consistent tone than a Jeffries for instance. I'm waiting for a brand new one. My Jeffries is very nice but a bit loud for song accompaniment. The Wheatstone will have long scale reeds and better dynamic range i.e. it will play quietly if I want it to.

Anahata

Subject: RE: ANOTHER concertina request:-)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 10:40 AM

That's one of my worries with the Stagi, Anahata. The Hohner, although clapped out, does play nice and quietly for accompaniment. It does not, however, have the volume for the occasional Morris and session work!

I think I will just have to have a good long go on the Stagi before I decide. Might pop up to the Music Room tomorrow and see what they have in stock:-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: ANOTHER concertina request:-)
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 06:23 PM

DtG --

I have a Stagi 48-button English concertina that I bought from The Button Box and have owned for around a year now. I'm very pleased with its tone and volume. Since I play mostly individual notes (rather than chords), it does not overpower a singer and blends well with our jam group's instruments: three guitars, fiddle, mandolin, bass, and occasionally lap dulcimer. I think if you hang on to your Stagi for awhile you'll be very happy with it. Good luck with your quest! The world needs more of us squeezeboxers!

Lin

Subject: RE: ANOTHER concertina request:-)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 04:35 AM

Thanks Lin and everyone else for their advice - Much appreciated:-)

I'm going to play a Stagi today and, hopefuly, compare it with some old ones.

I'll keep you posted.

:D

Subject: RE: ANOTHER concertina request:-)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Aug 03 - 04:42 AM

Well. well, well! I spent a good hour at the Music Room in Cleckheaton yesterday and uncovered a few surprises. First thing - I have decided I will never buy a concertina without having played it so eBay is ruled out. The reason being that I played 2 Lachenals - 1 a 20 button costing £275 and 1 a 36 button costing £1500. The 20 button played beautifuly. The 36 button was awful. Just did not sound or play well at all. Just goes to show that even boxes by the same maker are not all the same. More of that later as well.

Of the modern ones the Connor played better than the Marcus but I did not realy like either. The Wheatstone however was a gem. It was £1600 though which is a bit more than my budget.

On same manufacturer / different boxes the Stagi was a bit of a surprise as well. The C/G Stagi's they had were a different design to the one I played at Hobgoblin. They had metal ends and had brown bellows. They played no better than my old Hohner. They did however have a G/D in the black wood ends and black bellows. The style that I played before. That was brilliant. OK, not as good as the Wheatsone but at £389 I had to ask myself if the Wheatsone was 4 times as good. The answer was no.

I decided to keep the Hohner C/G and buy the Stagi G/D but thought I would sleep on it. Just as well. This morning I got a PM from someone who has a Lachenal they may part with. I am awaitng the call back and hope to see it soon:-)

Watch this space...

:D

Subject: RE: ANOTHER concertina request:-)
From: Ralphie
Date: 01 Aug 03 - 05:05 AM

DtG

Well done for sleeping on it !

Buying a concertina is a minefield. One mans Jeffries is another mans Crabb. And, I would never buy "Sight unseen"

Fingers crossed that you meet the box of your dreams...Only 6 months to go before I collect my hand made Dipper...(Just about to go out and re-mortgage the house!)

Am watching this thread with considerable interest.....Good Luck!

Ralphie

Subject: RE: ANOTHER concertina request:-)
From: stevethesqueeze
Date: 01 Aug 03 - 09:46 AM

Its great seeing all this interest in squeezeboxes!!

I notice one or two of us have noticed that concertinas made by the same maker can be very different. I have been told that makers like lachenal put a lot of their work out to outworkers, craftspeople who worked from home making perhaps just one part that was then assembled with all the other parts made by other outworkers in the workshop. I think this may well be why there can be such a difference.

ralphie, you are a very lucky man indeed. Colin Dippers instruments are simply the vert best of both vintage and modern instruments, simply the very best concertina's ever made. I like your phrase ralphie as well, "the box of dreams". Thats what they are of course. I see or hear a concertina and my mind just wonders off into our history and music. You all must know that the concertina is virtually the only instrument invented by an englishman and is one of the most recent musical instruments to have been invented.Its a triumph of victorian invention and importantly miniaturisation.

stevethesqueeze

Subject: RE: ANOTHER concertina request:-)
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Aug 03 - 12:18 PM

Ha...Steve...I presume the "Triumph" reference was deliberate!!
BTW, My Dipper McCann Duet will probably be the only one he ever makes. Amboyna ended, Goat bellows, Brass buttons, etc,etc.
A 50th birthday present from myself to myself...

As a general rule though, always play the bugger before purchasing. As has been said, instruments can differ even when made in the same month/year !!

Good hunting to all

Ralphie (at work)

Subject: RE: ANOTHER concertina request:-)
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 01 Aug 03 - 12:52 PM

Barleycorn
is a good place to start and they will send instruments over to the music room if thats easier but probably well worth a trip down to Stoke. Its where I shall be heading as soon as my Castagnari Lily is sold and I shall alos then be on the lookout for a lower end price Lachenal or similar.

Subject: RE: ANOTHER concertina request:-)
From: Noreen
Date: 01 Aug 03 - 04:10 PM

As Mrs Duck says, Chris Algar at Barleycorn is a good contact if only because he always has a large number of instruments available to look at and play and chew the fat over. He also is very obliging in arranging times for people to visit his home to see what he's got. But as with anything else, know what you're looking for and don't take anybody's word as gospel.

Interesting to hear your opinion on the Marcus instruments, Dave- I was very impressed with the one I played at the Music Room, particularly given the price. Loved the tone and the feel of it.
The more I see though, the more lucky I feel to have been able to buy my Crabb for £100.... (it was 25 years ago mind you).

I look forward to seeing a Morse; I've heard great things about them.

Hope the latest offer turns up trumps, Dave- let us know what comes of it. Seem to remember that one felt very nice, and will be great after a bit of work.

Subject: RE: ANOTHER concertina request:-)
From: GUEST,ClaireBear
Date: 01 Aug 03 - 04:31 PM

In general, I'm sure you're right about playing 'em first. But when the ideosyncracies of my Wheatstone McCann duet made me want to try another system, I bought a Lachenal Crane via EBay -- after long e-mail interaction with its owner about its sound characteristics. And for less than $900, I got a wonderful instrument. So I wouldn't rule mail order out entirely, I'd just advise caution.

(I'm in California, so trotting over to Barleycorn isn't so easy. But the seller, in Chicago, did exactly that with my $900 to get HIS dream instrument the following week...)

Claire

Subject: RE: ANOTHER concertina request:-)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Aug 03 - 04:41 PM

I was also greatly impressed with the concertinas built by Marcus Music in Wales. Actually met the man at a small festival in England. However, I'm not sure he's reliable to deal with at a distance, out of sight, out of mind was my experience. Next time I'll follow him home and buy whatever happens to be lying on his bench.

I'm still working with to Stagi Anglo concertinas, a G/d and a custom F/C. I'm reasonably happy with them but I still lust for others.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: ANOTHER concertina request:-)
From: Noreen
Date: 01 Aug 03 - 05:24 PM

Happy endings, ClaireBear!
:0)

Subject: RE: ANOTHER concertina request:-)
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 01 Aug 03 - 06:32 PM

Claire...what a great story!
We all do stupid things sometimes, but, buying a Duet is only slightly stupid......!!!
Can't wait to hear it.
Ralphie xx

Subject: RE: ANOTHER concertina request:-)
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 01 Aug 03 - 06:46 PM

Played by you, of course !
R xx

Subject: RE: ANOTHER concertina request:-)
From: GUEST,T-boy
Date: 04 Aug 03 - 07:52 AM

Just a minor pedantic point - concertina was patented in 1829, so it's a bit early to be a triumph of Victorian invention.

Subject: RE: ANOTHER concertina request:-)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Aug 03 - 08:47 AM

Ahhhh - but which system was patented in 1829 T-boy?

And being even more pedantic -

It was developed in 1829 and 1830 by Sir Charles Wheatstone of Wheatstone bridge fame after several years of building prototypes, a few of which still exist (in 1829 he patented its direct predecessor, the Symphonium, and the patent includes a clear description of a hexagonal bellows-powered derivative, but he did not get round to patenting the concertina under that name until 1844)

(Courtesy of www.concertina.info)

So, as Queen Vic was crowned in 1838 (I think!) the concertina IS a Victoran instrument after all:-)

Bear in mind that was just the English. George Jones is credited with introducing the Ango (or more correctly Anglo/German) some time later and the various Duet systems were developed later still! The Crane/Triumph reference above seems to have been the second duet system introduced. The earliest being MacCann and the rare jeffries system later still but all within the Victorian era. The only one outside this time frame would be the new Hayden system.

Need more tea yet;-)

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: ANOTHER concertina request:-)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Aug 03 - 01:47 PM

Well. Bin an gon an dun it! I am now the proud owner of a Lachenal 30 button C/G box serial number 30477 which places it in the year 1878.

Left hand side lets some air through the gaskets which will need replacing. There is a small tear in the corner of one of the belows and it is tuned sharp of concert pitch. But she is LOVELY:-)

Have already spent a touch more than I wanted and I will need to have it retuned and have the repairs attended to but that should only put me around 40% above budget... (Not bad if you say it quick) But, at the end of the day, I will end up with a far superior instrument to the Stagi.

Now. Anyone one to buy a modern Hohner in C/G or swap it for a G/D?
;-)

Cheers and thanks to all, especialy Bill, for all the help. And a great big thanks to the Mudcat in general. That is two satisfied concertina hunters in the last couple of weeks.

Cheers

Dave the chuffed little Gnome.

Subject: RE: ANOTHER concertina request:-)
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 07 Aug 03 - 09:34 PM

The advice I once received from a vinter about buying wine appies to concertinas as well: if you like the way the wine tastes, buy it, even if the price is "cheap". So follow your ear -- if the $400 box sounds better to you than the $1200 one then go with that one.

Incidentally, most concertinas sound better after the listener has drunk some wine.

Kipis!

Jerry

Subject: RE: ANOTHER concertina request:-)
From: GUEST,ClaireBear
Date: 08 Aug 03 - 10:02 AM

Congratulations on the new box! May the two of you be very happy together.

Subject: RE: ANOTHER concertina request:-)
From: Bernard
Date: 08 Aug 03 - 03:17 PM

I can sort out the tuning, Dave. Talk to you about it on Monday!

If air is 'getting through the gaskets' it is more likely that the little wooden wedges that hold up the reed pan have become dislodged, or are even missing completely. That's easily sorted.

The bellows may need specialist work to be a proper job, unless it's not on a conspicuous place. Fortunately, bellows usually get damaged on the side that is towards the player!

Subject: RE: ANOTHER concertina request:-)
From: CraigS
Date: 08 Aug 03 - 06:49 PM

You can usually patch holes in bellows with patches cut from ladies' leather purses - nice thin leather, glue it with EvoStik on the outside of the bellows.

Subject: RE: ANOTHER concertina request:-)
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 11 Aug 03 - 01:36 PM

I'm getting quite excited. I have finally sold my melodeon and can now start in earnest to look for an English concertina - been practicing on a friends and have almost mastered a very slow ride on a donkey and Von Ryan's polka. :0)