Origins: Carlton Weavers (not the usual one)

Subject: Origins: Carlton Weavers
From: GUEST,cujimmy
Date: 04 Aug 03 - 04:35 PM

I have most of the words of this song -

I am a Carlton Weaver and simple is my plea.
Not to be chained forever to four posts of poverty.
The dark old days of Castlereigh have settled like the blight.
Though the sun shines doon on Glasgow toon it seams eternal night.

I need the verse - "As we came in by Stirling you could hear the clanking chains".

Could anyone tell me about The Carlton Weavers, the year, the history etc.

             thanks - jimmy

Subject: RE: Origins: Calton Weaver
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Aug 03 - 04:56 PM

Hi, Jimmy-
It's listed in the Digital Tradition is Calton Weaver, and the Traditional Ballad Index has it that way, too. "Nancy Whiskey" is closely related. I'll post the entry from The Ballad Index below. Note the crosslinks I added toward the top of this page.
-Joe Offer-

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Nancy Whisky

DESCRIPTION: The weaver sets out to sample the pleasures of drink and a roving life. After extensive drinking, he finds himself broke and despised. He vows to return to weaving, and warns others of the evil of drink
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1907
KEYWORDS: drink poverty weaving warning
FOUND IN: Britain(England(Lond,South),Scotland(Aber)) Ireland
REFERENCES (5 citations):
Kennedy 279, "Nancy Whisky" (1 text, 1 tune)
SHenry H745, pp. 47-48, "Long Cookstown/Nancy Whiskey" (1 text, 1 tune)
Ord, pp. 372-373, "The Calton Weaver" (1 text)
Silber-FSWB, p. 234, "The Calton Weaver" (1 text)
DT, CALTONWV
ALTERNATE TITLES:
The Calton Weaver
The Dublin Weaver
Notes: One title for this song is "The Calton Weaver"; Calton was a village, swallowed up by Glasgow in the early 20th century. - PJS
File: K279

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Subject: RE: Origins: Carlton Weavers
From: VIN
Date: 04 Aug 03 - 05:04 PM

Interestingly i have an LP called 'Aex Campbell Sings Folk' recorded in 1963 and one of the tracks is 'The Calton Weaver'. The sleeve note reads: 'Long since swallowed by Glasgow, the village of Calton had a thriving weaving industry. The singer Hughie Martin claimed that William Miller of Stirling wrote the tune because he didn't like "the ither yon". Hmmmm great song tho!

Subject: RE: Origins: Carlton Weavers
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 03 - 05:16 PM

Thanks Joe, I know Nancy Whisky may be related but I got this song
from poet Freddy Anderson in Glasgow a few years ago, I would like to
know about the history of the strike described in the song. The second verse is -


We fought to form a union then,our scanty claims defend.
The Baccy and the cotton lords,its ruin was their intent.
They Hired an informer,black Richmond was his name.
And bribed by gold our cause he sold in misery and shame

   
Does someone recognise the song now - thanks for any information and help - jimmy

Subject: ADD Version:Calton Weaver
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Aug 03 - 05:18 PM

Here's the version from Ord's Bothy Songs and Ballads. Same general idea as the two versions already in the Digital Tradition, but still worth posting.
-Joe Offer-

THE CALTON WEAVER

I am a weaver, a Calton weaver,
An' I'm a rash and a rovin' blade;
I've got some money in my pocket,
An' I go and try the rovin' trade.

As I gaed doon thro' Glasgow city
Nancy Whisky I chanced to smell,
So I gaed in and sat doon beside her,
For it's seven years since I loved her well.

The more I kissed her the more I loved her,
The more I kissed her the more she smiled,
Till Nancy Whisky, O Nancy Whisky,
Till Nancy Whisky had me beguiled.

'Twas very early the next morning,
Finding myself in a strange bed,
I went to rise but I was not able,
For Nancy's charms they held my head.

I called the landlady to the parlour,
And asked her what was to pay;
Thirty shillings is the reckoning,
So pay me quickly and go away.

It's I pulled out a purse with money,
And to her the reckoning I did pay down;
I paid to her thirty shillings,
And all that remained was a single crown.

As I gaed down thro' Glasgow city
Nancy Whisky I chanced to smell;
I gaed in and drank four and sixpence,
And a' 'twas left was a crooked scale*

Do I regard one single sixpence,
Or will I lay it up in store?
I'll go back and hae anither gill,
It will help me home to work for more.

Then I'll go back to my old master,
So merrily I'll mak' the shuttle fly;
For I'll mak' mair at the Calton weaving
Than ever I did in a roving way.

So, come all ye weavers, ye Calton weavers,
Come all ye weavers where e'er ye be;
Beware of Whisky, Nancy Whisky,
She'll ruin you as she ruined me


The old burgh of Calton, now part of the city of Glasgow, was famous for its weavers. Indeed, weaving seems to have been the chief industry there during the first quarter of the last century.

*crooked scale: sixpence

---

And all this is very nice, Jimmy, but now I see it's not the song you're looking for.

Subject: RE: Origins: Carlton Weavers (Calton Weaver)
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Aug 03 - 06:44 PM

Jimmy..I was interesred to see your comment about Freddy and I was sorry to hear of his Death a few months ago.I heard him perform often in the 60s and I remember a poem of his which contained the line "the man who came wandering in" Iv never been able to get the words to this poem .Can you help?    Ake.

Subject: RE: Origins: Carlton Weavers (not the usual one)
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Aug 03 - 03:20 PM

Freddy died about a year ago, and sadly missed he is too.

THe Centre for Political Song in Caledonian University has all his work stored away, and they put on an exhibition recently.

Subject: RE: Origins: Carlton Weavers (not the usual one)
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Aug 03 - 06:37 PM

Akenaton - see my answer in Freddy Anderson thread - regards - jimmy

Subject: RE: Origins: Carlton Weavers (not the usual one)
From: masato sakurai
Date: 05 Aug 03 - 08:32 PM

Entry at folktrax:

NANCY WHISKY - "I am a weaver, a Calton Weaver" ("CW") - "Seven long years have I been weaving" - ROUD#883 - GREIG-DUNCAN 3 1987 #603 (11var) - GREIG FSNE 1909-14 #90 "The Dublin Weaver" 12v - SHARP Ms "Dicky Brandy" 1v frag Bincombe, Somerset 2var Oxfordsh - GARDINER Ms 1907 (Hants) - HENRY SOP #745 "Long Cookstown" - ORD BB 1930 p372 (w/o) "The CW" - McCOLL SS 1953 p134 from Hughie Martin, Glasgow - CHAPBOOK mag 3/4 p35 - SEEGER-McCOLL SI 1960 #36 p41 Hughie Martin, Shettleston, Glasgow "The CW" tune from Ewan's father, Jimmy Miller, Stirling - Hugh Shields: Eddie Butcher 1966 "Nancy's W" 10v/m (words in file) - KENNEDY FSBI 1975 #279 p611 Billy Wells, Bampton, Oxfordsh 1952 - see PORTSMOUTH CITY -- Wm MATHIESON #010 rec on Dictaphone cylinder by James M Carpenter 1929-35/ also rec by Alan Lomax 1951 - Hector CAMPBELL #056, Bell DUNCAN #263 rec on Dictaphone cylinder by James M Carpenter 1929-35 "The Dublin Weaver" - Jimmie McGREGOR with Shirley BLAND & Steve BENBOW (gtr) rec by PK: EMI CLP-1327 1960/ 093 - THE HIGHWAYMEN: UNITED ARTISTS ULP-1002 1962 - Noel MURPHY: FONTANA STL-5496 1969 - Hamish IMLACH: TRANSATLANTIC TRA-SAM-31 1973

Subject: RE: Origins: Carlton Weavers (not the usual one)
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 10:11 AM

Hi jimmy,

Have never heard the song, but could this be the back-ground of it:

Glasgow, 1820.

From 1815 the position of the weavers deteriorated rapidly from earning 30-40 shillings a week to 7 shillings sixpence for top quality muslin weavers and 4 shillings sixpence for less skilled labor.

The weavers organized and protested some of these developments including special taxes levied against them, but were usually defeated in their attempts as the acts of protest were called riots and dispersed by troops.

Soldiers, returning from the Napoleonic Wars and the victory at Waterloo in 1815, found little, or no work, or extremely low wages once they got home. Prices were high and labor discontent swelled to proportions that seriously alarmed the government.

A movement was started with the intent of reorganizing the local government and a number of posters appeared on the street calling for armed struggle. Several groups formed but not finding a sufficient gathering to do anything, returned home. An old radical, James Wilson, a weaver (He invented the pearl stitch) at Strathaven in Lanarkshire, was among those induced to march on Glasgow, but he and the others returned home when they found no one on the outskirts of the city to join them as they had been promised.

Government spies were engaged and paid to ferret out all ramifications of the suspected conspiracy and these spies, faithful only in their unscrupulousness, reported that deeply laid schemes were afoot for the overthrow of King and constitution.

Glasgow was believed by those in authority to be the Scottish centre of the revolutionary movement - based on information passed upwards from the spies. It was in fact the centre of the Government spy-system and the centre of a profitable although disreputable conspiracy amongst the government spies.

Richmond, the Government spy, resided in the city of Glasgow. He is credited with every appearance of justice, as the fabricator of many treasonable documents, to which under false representation, he obtained the adhesion of a number of reformers, whose simplicity enabled him to betray them.

Some Calton weavers also marched eastward to join a non-existant group of english rebels, who they were told, were about to seize the Carron Iron Works. They were easily overcome by a troup of 7th Regiment of Hussars (light cacalry) reinforced by some of the Stirlingshire Yeomanry (Brittish volunteer cavalry force). Forty-seven prisoners were put on trial for treason and three --- Wilson, who was arrested at his home, John Baird and Andrew Hardie who jointly led the march of the Calton weavers towards Falkirk --- were convicted and executed. Wilson's trial took place in Glasgow on 20 July 1820, and was hanged and then beheaded (These three were the last people in the UK to be sentenced to be drawn on a hurdle to their place of execution, where they were to be hung, beheaded and quartered)on Glasgow Green on 30 August. Hardie and Baird were tried at Stirling on 13 July and hanged on 8 September.

Wilson's execution was limited to hanging and beheading, it was thought that had the full sentence been carried out, public opinion would have so inflamed, that the situation would have got totally out of hand. Hardie and Baird were only hung as no-one could be found to behead them.

Good luck with the lyrics

Subject: RE: Origins: Carlton Weavers (not the usual one)
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 10:31 AM

A bit more Jimmy,

In your snippet of the lyrics Castlereagh is mentioned:

"The dark old days of Castlereigh have settled like the blight."

Lord Castlereagh, a member of Lord Liverpool's Government introduced the motion in the commons which led to the repeal of "Habeas Corpus"

Taking into account recent events in England
- An attempt on the Prince Regents life in 1819
- Peterloo Massacre 16th August, 1819.

After Peterloo, Castlereagh was also instrumental in introducing what later became known as the Six Acts. By the 30th December, 1819, Parliament had debated and passed six measures that it hoped would suppress radical newspapers and meetings as well as reducing the possibility of an armed uprising.

(1) Training Prevention Act:
A measure which made any person attending a gathering for the purpose of training or drilling liable to arrest. People found guilty of this offence could be transportated for seven years.

(2) Seizure of Arms Act:
A measure that gave power to local magistrates to search any property or person for arms.

(3) Seditious Meetings Prevention Act:
A measure which prohibited the holding of public meetings of more than fifty people without the consent of a sheriff or magistrate.

(4) The Misdemeanours Act:
A measure that attempted to reduce the delay in the administration of justice.

(5) The Basphemous and Seditious Libels Act:
A measure which provided much stronger punishments, including banishment for publications judged to be blaspemous or sedtious.

(6) Newspaper and Stamp Duties Act:
A measure which subjected certain radical publications which had previously avoided stamp duty by publishing opinion and not news, to such duty.

Subject: RE: Origins: Carlton Weavers (not the usual one)
From: Big Tim
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 04:49 PM

Akenaton: the line "the man who came wandering in" is contained in the Irish poem "The Man From God Knows Where". It's in the 8th verse of 13:

"What with discourse going to and fro, the night would be wearing thin,
Yet never so late when we rose to go, but someone would say do you mind thon snow and the man who came wandering in,
Then we be to fall to the talk again, if maybe by chance he was one of them [United Irishmen], the man who rode like the wind".

If this is the one, it was written by Florence Wilson of Bangor, Northern Ireland, in 1918. This poem has since been set to music, twice, two different tunes. In fact I heard it sung live in Belfast last Sunday night!

Subject: RE: Origins: Carlton Weavers (not the usual one)
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 05:04 PM

Tim...Your a genius..Thats the poem Iv been looking for.I heard Freddy Anderson Reciting it In the Glenmorag Hotel Folk club in the sixties and was really impressed with the poem. I always thought Freddy had written it..Do you have all the words and could you post them?....Id be very gratefull....Alex    PSThe Glenmorag had a Cracking club at that time.. The main promoter was an old school friend of mine Brian Wilson now a minister in Blairs Government...At that time he was a big Nationalist.Hes a real nice guy not like his political persona..Thanks for your help Tim...Hope the books doin well

Subject: RE: Origins: Carlton Weavers (not the usual one)
From: Big Tim
Date: 07 Aug 03 - 03:32 PM

Alex: I just drove past the Glemmorag ten minutes ago, the Waverly was steaming in, all's well with the world!                        

"The Man From God Knows Where" (click) is in the DT. Just type in the title and you'll get it. The poem, now song, is about Thomas Russell (1767-1803)the executed United Irishman. Florence Wilson, the author, died in 1946. When doing my research, I was given a tour of her former home in Bangor by the then owner who had known FW personally: the house has since been demolished. One of the chapters in my book is about this song, and since I wrote it, I've discovered that the lyrics have also been set to music by Brian Moore of Belfast (as well as the 1979 Five Hand Reel version). Last Sunday evening in Belfast I did 8 readings from the book and Brian Moore sang the 8 relevant songs, of which "The Man From God Knows Where" was one (his tune)! Buy the book for the full story!

Subject: RE: Origins: Carlton Weavers (not the usual one)
From: GUEST,Pete
Date: 07 Aug 03 - 04:23 PM

Whenever I see Calton written as "Carlton" it makes me laugh, because the Calton is a very tough area of Glasgow, and "CaRlton" sounds much more posh !

Note that the Calton is the area of Glasgow where the flea market "the Barras" is , and that Matt McGinn is "McGinn of the Calton". This name came about because he was at a posh affair where you had to sign the visitor's book and the name above his was "Lord MacLeod of Fuinary". He seized the opportunity to poke some fun at the establishment by signing " McGinn of the Calton".

Subject: RE: Origins: Carlton Weavers (not the usual one)
From: Big Tim
Date: 08 Aug 03 - 09:55 AM

Pete, there was a thread about Matt recently, when all the Calton stuff was discussed. I told Matt's daughter Shonagh about it (by email - I don't know her): she checked out the thread was was very gratified to learn that her father still has so many admirers all over the world.

Subject: RE: Origins: Calton Weavers (not the usual one)
From: GUEST
Date: 27 May 07 - 03:07 AM

It's spelled CALTON! It's a district of the city of Glasgow - to the east of Glasgow Green,- taking in Bridgton and Camlachie and part of the Merchant city.

http://dcwilson.tripod.com

Above is the site of my historian friend (who is the descendent of the Leading Glasgow Radical) site which details the 1820 uprising of the Calton Weavers.

Subject: RE: Origins: Carlton Weavers (not the usual one)
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 27 May 07 - 11:16 AM

Guest, many thanks for the link to the 1820 rising. I've been looking for info on that. (BTW, it's always advisable to read a thread before posting .-))