Is Opera rubbish?

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: greg stephens
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 03:19 PM

Don: "abysmal ignorance". My point about JOhn from Hull, absolutely. That man should be curator of the Hull Abysmal Ignorance Museum.

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 03:15 PM

An art form that has been around for centuries, is a combination of several other art forms—music and singing (obviously), acting, visual arts (set and costume design), literature (the story on which the opera is based), and often dancing—and is still going strong in this age of canned entertainment, has whole armies of singers hoping that they can get good enough to by hired by some opera company somewhere, and sold-out audiences for almost every performance given in cities of any size can hardly be all these things if it's just "rubbish." A comment like that springs from abysmal ignorance.

A couple of Verdi's operas are based on the plays of Shakespeare: MacBeth and Falstaff ("The Merry Wives of Windsor"), and his Il Trovatore ("The Troubadour") is based on a play by Antonio García Gutiérrez; Donizetti's Lucia di Lammermoor is based on a novel by Sir Walter Scott ("The Bride of Lammermoor"): Bizet's Carmen on a novella by Prosper Mérimée; Gounod's Faust on Part 1 of Goethe's tragedy; Puccini's La Bohème on Henri Mürger's "Scènes de la Vie de Bohème;" and on and on. Of course, there are those who would regard Shakespeare as "rubbish" also. "They wear silly clothes and they talk funny."

In fact, Shakespeare's plays make an interesting parallel to most operas in terms of format. Much of Shakespeare is in verse, and from time to time, the characters will stand there talking to themselves (a "soliloquy"—a device that allows the actor to give the audience essential information or that allows the audience to look into the character's mind). An opera composer could (as Verdi and some others did) take a play by Shakespeare and write music to it.   The play is sung. Conversations and such come out as "recititive" (words sung or spoken on specific notes), duets, or other ensemble pieces (quartets, sextets, choruses, etc.), and the soliloquies come out as arias. This is a bit over-simplified, but it becomes pretty straightforward if you look at it that way.

I find that those people who condemn opera the most vociferously are those who have heard an excerpt or two completely out of context, sung in a language they don't understand and in style they are not familiar with, and assume that opera is nothing more than a bunch of fat women who carry spears, wear iron brassieres and wings on their hats, and run around screaming. That's sort of like saying that a folk singer is just some guy wearing bib overalls who can't sing and stands there alternating between picking his guitar and picking his nose. Stereotyping without knowing anything about it.

Opera is such a wide and varied field that you can find lots of opera buffs who don't agree with each other. There are those who like only Italian opera, some who like Italian and French opera but can't stand Wagner, and those who think Wagner is the be-all and end-all of singing and everything else is frivolous. There are those who like only the classic eighteenth and nineteenth century opera and those who care only for contemporary opera. All possible combinations.

And, of course, there are those who will tell you that opera plots are impossible to follow, and even if you can follow them, it isn't worth it because they are incredibly stupid. Well, let's put it this way: I find that a lot of opera plots are very similar to the plots you will find in ballads. The plot of Lucia di Lammermoor and the plot of Anachie Gordon, for example, are remarkably similar. Young woman in love with a young man who happens to be poor. He goes away to make his fortune so he can return and claim the girl. In the meantime, the girl is forced by her family to marry a rich man she detests. Her lover returns to discover that it's her wedding day and he's returned too late. She's already married. She dies of grief and anguish. Devastated, he kills himself. Silly plot. But no sillier when performed by the singers, chorus, and orchestra of the Metropolitan Opera than it is when sung by Mary Black.

I could draw parallels like this between dozens of ballads and operas. In fact, I would go so far as to say the ballads are "mini-operas." And operas are "ballads on steroids." So much for silly plots.

For anyone who knows little or nothing about opera but who is genuinely interested in finding out what it's all about, a good opera to start with is La Bohème by Giacomo Puccini. The opera is accessible to anyone who knows little about opera but who is willing to come to it with open ears and an open mind. The plot is simple and easy to relate to: a bunch of hippies (bohemians—same thing, different era) trying to survive in mid-nineteenth century Paris while pursuing their dreams of becoming successful poets, artists, and musicians. The story's center is the love affair between the poet Rodolfo, and Mimi, a girl who lives in the same flea-trap apartment building. The music of this opera is exquisitely beautiful. And if this opera doesn't get to you, then they may as well throw a sheet over you, put a tag on your toe, and close the drawer.

Don Firth

ADDENDUM:   Although it would be by far the best to see and hear La Bohème as a live opera, opera tickets can get pretty pricey, and even if your locality has an opera company, it might be years before they put it on. An alternative would be a excellent version filmed at the Metropolitan Opera. It's directed by Franco Zeffirelli, conducted by James Levine, and starring José Carreras as Rodolfo, Teresa Stratas as Mimi (looking appropriately small and delicate), and Renata Scotto as the flirtatious Musetta. This is available on both VHS and DVD, and as I recall, it has English sub-titles. It may be available at a local library or rentable from Blockbuster or someplace like that.

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: Stewart
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 03:08 PM

For synopses of some operas in words that the average guy can understand try Newman Levy. A writer of light verse in the early 20th century, he wrote "Opera Guyed," a collection of poems telling the plots of operas in everyday language. Several of these poems have been set to music as:

TRISTAN AND ISOLDA

THAIS

CARMEN

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: jimmyt
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 03:02 PM

Thank God For Jo9hn from Hull! I hope he lives forever, so I will always know that somewhere out there someone more blunt and less politically correct than me still exists. Hang in there John!!! At least he hasn't posted a thread on   "DENTISTS, JUST A LOAD OF CRAP"...............yet!

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: greg stephens
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 02:55 PM

I find it difficult to move in my house for LPs,tapes(of all kinds and sizes) and CDs. I couldnt begin to estimate how many. But I've just done a stock-take of the opera component: one Gilbert and Sullivan!I'm afraid my ears have a blind spot, and it's opera.

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: Amergin
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 02:50 PM

from the Devil's Dictionary:

OPERA, n.
A play representing life in another world, whose inhabitants have no speech but song, no motions but gestures and no postures but attitudes. All acting is simulation, and the word simulation is from simia, an ape; but in opera the actor takes for his model Simia audibilis (or Pithecanthropos stentor) -- the ape that howls.
    The actor apes a man -- at least in shape;
    The opera performer apes an ape.

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: harvey andrews
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 02:23 PM

I think John from Hull is actually Nigel Molesworth grown up.
I agree with the above,his postings bring pleasure.
As to Opera, some good, some bad.
I remember having to pull off the road once, so evercome with emotion at the male duet from "The pearlfishers". Couldn't understand a word of it, but it was overwhelming in what it did to my emotions.

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 02:06 PM

John P, You have it wrong about John from Hull, he is the heart of the Mudcat.
John`s contribution over the tears have always had the sly dig in them, don`t take his posting to serious, half of the time he is taking the mickey.
John from Hull bang away you are the life of the Mudcat. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 11:40 AM

A. Opera is hours of tedium punctuated by moments of glory. It's
   worth it.

B. For those who don't like songs they can't understand; the words
   often suck anyway. Think of it as vocal instrumentals.

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 11:18 AM

I've sung a fair amount of opera from light to grand and have always enjoyed it. I even find my folk singing experience useful - several musical directors have been impressed with my phrasing in unacompanied recits. On the other hand the skills which I've learnt in opera prove useful especially in putting over songs (esp. comic ones) which need a little acting.

I think my two favourite roles have been Jack Point in "Yeomen of the Guard" and Rudolpho in "La Boheme" - we only performed the first act, which works well on it's own. As the song says you never forget The roar of the greasepaint and the smell of the crowd

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: KateG
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 10:40 AM

Is opera elitist...depends on where you are.

Many years ago I went to a production of La Boheme given in a small park in a poor Italian neighborhood of Boston (it was the late 60's and they were experimenting with culture as a form of riot control).

We went with a friend who was playing the cello in the orchestra. When we arrived there were NO parking spaces. But then folks on the street saw the cello in the passenger seat of Dave's car. Smiles, friendly gestures, and lo, a parking space appeared where none had existed before.

We go to the park, a paved square with streets on all four sides and a couple of battered basketball hoops. A portable stage was set up at one end, and the rest of the park was packed with people of all ages, all with their picnics and folding aluminum lawn chairs. Eating, talking, laughing, shouting...etc. Clearly neighborhood folks, not the elite from Beacon Hill.

When the music started, the park went silent. By the time the first act ended, it was three quarters empty and NO-ONE had left. The entire audience was on their feet, pressed up against the sawhorses that defined the orchestra pit, and they stayed there for the entire performance. By the end, there wasn't a dry eye on anybody over the age of 20. The atmosphere was electric, and the audience response called forth a performance that was beyond superlative. I have never heard anything so amazing in my life, it totally changed my view of opera. It may be posh music in the English-speaking world, but in it's native Italy, it IS folk music, and people sing snaches of aria the way folks here sing songs from "The Sound of Music" or other popular entertainments.

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 10:35 AM

greg stephens---- ;>)

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: John P
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 10:03 AM

Arrghh! Don't you people have anything better to do with your time than to read and respond to rubbish on the computer?? Some idiot makes an assinine post and you all start answering him as if he made any sense at all. Arrghh!

TURN OFF YOUR COMPUTERS!!!
Go play some music, or sing a song, or do anything worthwhile.

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: RichM
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 09:57 AM

Rubbish? Well, yes it is, mostly...

I particularly dislike operatic soprano singing---though I admire and like folk soprano singing--- (especially my wife's ;)

In the same category are the warpipes, if played closer to me than 25 metres(yards)!

But that's only my opinion,as was John's starting comment in this thread...

Rich

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 09:36 AM

When I became interested on Opera I found a local venue where they put them on in English, so that I could understand what was going on. If they come on TV they are always subtitled, which helps a great deal. I'm far from being either posh or intellectual but I love a lot of opera for the sheer emotion of the music. When you put that together with the words, once you know them..... I wonder if it really matters what label is put on a piece of music if it appeals to the listener. Like Vin I like all sorts of music and will always listen to something new, just to see if it might add to my listening pleasure. My CD collection is extremely eclectic but gives me great pleasure. Getting invovled in performing folk music has increased my enjoyment of all kinds of music as I now realise how difficult it can be to do it well!

I must admit, though, that I find modern classical and rap rather offputting!

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: Ringer
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 09:35 AM

Try Gilbert & Sullivan, John, for an easy introduction. Superb music, not too much of it, in English, and very witty words.

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 08:54 AM

Consider the art in its context. Opera was the urban movie of the 18th, 19th and early 20th century. People would go out and enjoy the music. It was not culcha, it was just music. The appeal was across cultures and across ages. Everyone went. Many of the stories were trite or derivative. That didn't matter. What did matter was the presentation.

There were also plenty of other outlets for the public. Consider that in those non-electrified time, almost everyone was involved with others. There were community bands, theaters, concert groups, etc. Should we return to those simpler times? In some ways, perhaps, but I would not give up my car or medical services or indoor plumbing.

Yes I like much about opera. Quality, however, does vary.

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 08:44 AM

John you say that most people in Hull don`t like Opera, I can also vouch for Sunderland, Newcastle, Middlesborough, and any other town you care to name in England.
I remember one night in Sunderland out with my workmates pub-crawling, although a non-drinker I went along for the dubious pleasure.
In one particular crowded Pub, close to the Docks, the Juke-Box was belting out some noisy pop music, I slipped over to the Juke-Box and spying La donne mobile sung by Mario Lanza I slipped the Tanner in and sidled over to the Snooker table to join my mates, and a few minutes later on came Mario, immediatley there was complete silence followed by loud roaring to "get that bloody man off", one of my mates knew it was me that put it on and he was doubled up laughing.
John it might be hard to acquire a taste in later years, but I can tell you that in Ireland we were brought up on John McCormack, Gigli, Caruso, and a host of classical singers, and I am thankful for that, it`s a great pity John, but you are missing out on one of the Worlds pleasures. Ard Mhacha

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: Kim C
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 08:06 AM

Carmen ROCKS.

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: mooman
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 07:57 AM

I would like to proffer an opinion but have never had enough money to afford the tickets to go and find out...

Seriously (from what I have seen on the television), like all musical forms there is good and bad. Some opera is excellent and some, for me, seems over the top and pretentious. I tend personally to prefer the accessibility and intimacy of other musical forms.

moo

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: GUEST,KB
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 07:37 AM

I don't listening to Opera - but the italian arias are just amazing sheer pleasure to sing.

As far as I understand it from my teacher, the good operatic pieces are written specifically for the voice - which means that the quality of tone is easier to achieve. Eg The shape that your mouth needs to be for a given note is the same as the shape for the syllable you are singing - so it is easier to get a really beautiful sound. Then you can really let yourself go and "fly" - AND you don't strain your voice.

Folk is more about communicating with words, whereas opera is more about communicating with music. So, if you are a words person then you will likely prefer folk, or if you are music person you will likely prefer opera. Or if you're a bit of both then neither will be rubbish!

A crude and provocative question it may be - but then John does those so well! I like this thread - John's wickedness always makes me smile.

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 07:33 AM

I know that you like to sound sound like a bigotted idiot, John, but I have heard from people who know you that it's all an act. I'm not very fond of the current crop of pop music, but I put that down to the fact that I have different musical tastes to those who do like it. I'm sure that if you ran a national poll on what sort of music people classed as rubbish, you would probably find that a high percentage would put folk music in that category - possibly a higher number than those who don't like opera.

Opera is merely a category anyway - do you like ALL folk songs/music ?
I have even been known to sing the odd operatic number in a folk environment (Dick Dauntless' song from Ruddigore is a wonderful counter to all those ditties about great British naval victories). I have also heard songs from John Gay's "Beggar's Opera" sung and of course "Tom Bowling" (in DT) is from one of Dibdin's operas.

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: greg stephens
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 06:04 AM

"Is opera rubbish"? A typically crude and provocative question from some illiterate Philistine idiot crawling around on his hands and knees in some squalid little hovel, trying to find some dregs of lager in various opened cans lying on their sides, and scratching at crumpled bits of brown paper to see if there is any semi-edible yesterday's chips or pizza.
    How he can have the effrontery to dismiss the product of many centuries work by the cream of western Europe's composers, singers and orchestras in this uneducated yobbish way. It makes me despair of human nature.
   Sorry, I've gone into a diatribe. Well, the question is "Is opera rubbish". Taking a long dispassionate look, and bearing in mind that all opinions are subjective, de gustibus non diputandum est: I have to say, yes it is.

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: Micca
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 05:54 AM

I also like some opera...and lots of other music also... and that is the only criterion (for me) do I like it!!! for opera a knowlede of the story , from a synopsis if not a full libretto usually helps in the enjoyment but there is a particular opera "Lucia de Lammermuir" by Donizetti which i dont know the story of, andI enjoy enormously because the music is sublime.. A tip, that Has often been said, sometimes the voice is used in song to communicate the words, but sometimes just as another instrument.. I believe this is true, as in "Lucia" I think ,for me, knowledge of what the words "mean" would in fact detract from the "musical experience"
A little story, a group of us went to the English National Opera ro see Mozarts " The Magic Flute" one of the group pressured her boyfriend, a Rock drummer, who had NEVER heard ANY live classical music into coming with us. As we were leaving the theatre at the end of the night, we are descending a long staircase from the gallery with about 200 other people when the b/f said, loudly, " Hey this guy Mozart wrote some real nice tunes" there was a lot of laughing and applause from the other patrons!!! but the point is he had an incentive to listen and found that he enjoyed it. That That the Music is sublime and it was in English probably helped.

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 05:32 AM

There is a lot of music, including opera, that I do not like. There is a lot of music, including opera, that I do like. I always atart off feeling it is partialy my fault when I do not like something. I think I do not like it because I do not understand it. Either the composer or the performer is doing something that is over my head and I am not intelligent enough to spot it:-(

Then I think, 'what the hell'. If I don't understand it is not entirely my fault. The performers or composers should not be such clever dicks in the first place! It is not up to me to try and work out why I should be enjoying it. So I don't:-)

An relative by marriage did try to explain jazz to me once. I got to the stage where he declared that there was no need to stay in relative keys because that restricts your creativity. The chords of F G and A minor diminished still sounded awful when used in the same tune...

Anyway. To answer the question. No, Opera is not rubbish. There are some operatic composers that are too clever by half and some performers that are to pretentious for their own good.

But perhaps that is just calling a spade a gold plated digging impliment;-)

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: Pat Cooksey
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 05:00 AM

Lat Saturday I attended an open air classical concert here in
Nuremberg given by the Nuremberg Symphony Orchestra, with soloists
Annette Elster, soprano, and Lena Neudauer, violin.
The concert under the logo Good Old Europe attracted 70.000 people of
all ages and the night went on 45 minutes over schedule, such was the
applause.
The sound system was brilliant and you could here every note 300 metres from the stage.
My six years old grandson who normally has mini discs of Eminem
glued to his ears was blown away by the occasion.

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: Gurney
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 04:44 AM

No, it isn't rubbish. They have the very best singers, songwriters, and musicians.
I still don't like it, though. It seems to me to be strained, pretentious, overacted, and dated. And with a few exceptions, elitist.
I can recognise the quality, but I like a more 'folksy' performance.

Her Indoors has been trying to convert me for 30 years, but has only managed to get me as far as Gilbert & Sullivan. That looks fun.

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 04:44 AM

With all these things it helps if you know and understand the background of what you are listening to. Those unfamiliar with folk might complain that reels are a repetitive set of scale exercises which all sound alike. Only when you put the sound together with the people, the atmosphere, the culture, and the history does it become meaningful. Once you appreciate all these things, it becomes possible to find the music alone meaningful. Occasionally, a piece of music - folk, classical or pop - can just reach out and grab you without the baggage but you have to be open-minded about being grabbed. This is music at its best. The others are right. Enjoy what you enjoy and be grabbed by what grabs you. But don't suggest that something is rubbish because you don't like (or know about) it. Just be open-minded and perhaps one day Mozart's Queen of the Night will embrace you whether you like it or not!

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: Escamillo
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 04:42 AM

Agree with VIN, the only way to appreciate operas in a foreign language, is to read the story beforehand. On-line translations are not very accurate, and poetry is lost.

Also, give a chance to artists to show you the full spectacle, and attend Opera at the Theatre. Listen to the natural sound without a carton cone vibrating in a plastic cabinet. Hear them breath, sigh, laugh and cry, see how the whole room elevates to heaven and falls to hell.

And see that guy hidden in the choir, perhaps you'll see me, happy as a clam, wishing to live long enough to die some day in a stage.

Un abrazo,
Andrés

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: Gervase
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 04:09 AM

Opera rubbish? No
Question Naive? Certainly!

You want stories, drama, passion, tunes, melody and spectacle? Opera's got the lot. OK, some prefer Gluck to Britten or Mozart to Maxwell-Davies, but there's enough in there for everyone to enjoy.

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: VIN
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 03:57 AM

Like catsPHiddle i also like other music forms aswell as folk and I've seen some operas like Carmen (three times!), Barber of Seville, Cosi Fan Tuttie, Salome and enjoyed them very much mainly, i think, because i like the music and new the story before hand, so even if it was sung in a foreign language, i new roughly what was goin on. Nowadays, many theatres have sur-titles to help. As to the 'why', well its like asking why some people prefer blue instead of red or Ibitha rather than the Lake District or real ale rather than keg. Its simply a matter of taste. I get enjoyment listening to Martin Carthy, Vin Garbutt, Fairport, BBC Philharmonic, Halle, Roy Harper, Pink Floyd, Incredible String Band, Mobi, David Gray &c.......then p'raps i'm just weird!

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 03:30 AM

Helo, Catsphuddle, I never mentioned posh in any of my messages, so tell us why you like it then [not making trubble, just asking], some of my non-folkie frends say "wahts so good abour#t folk music then?"
i tell them , it tells a story and sounds good.

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 03:21 AM

I have to disagree with you John. I like Opera and I certainly aint posh! I like all types of music and I love to go to see the Opera but I have to save up to get e really good seat!

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 03:18 AM

Kiri [not Kiki].john

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: Mudlark
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 03:15 AM

John, your spelling may be faulty but at leaxt you no what you like! I am not all that fond of opera (and I really hate opera type singers singing folk stuff), but I am passionate about music...and som of these opera singers are very good at producing it, in there own way. That New Zealand lass, Kiki Te Kenawa (sp?) for one makes my eyebrows climb into my forehead, and Pucini's operas...bits of them...are pretty amazing, if sung by the right pepul. Also, Delibes...whoa...angles...um, angels, singing...it can give you the shivers sometimes. Give it a chance, try diffrent peopl, diffrnt opras.

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: Escamillo
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 03:14 AM

If you heard a woman screaming it probably was not opera, but probably was Whitney Houston :)

To anybody who dislikes some operas (as I dislike some) I would recommend to obtain a video tape of George Bizet's CARMEN, with Placido Domingo and Julia Migenes-Johnson, directed by FRANCESCO ROSSI, then find a moment of calm in your night, and listen carefully to the songs and enjoy the fantastic images. This opera could be an enjoyable introduction to many others.

Of course opera tells a story, it is its main purpose. Also note that Opera is musical theatre, so it must be seen, not only heard.

Also it is absolutely true that Opera singers don't use amplification and their voices are a part of the orchestra, so the singers must use the power of their voices in full. There are sweet moments of pianissimo too, but when the authors want SOUND, they are unmerciful with the singers. After all, they have been professionally trained and are expected to be the best singers in all genres of music.

Un abrazo,
Andrés in Buenos Aires
(one who humbly sings his part in the choir and feels great)

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 02:57 AM

Dont beat about the bush,John-Tell us what you reslly think.

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 01:22 AM

JOn W, - i DID hear a womun screaming, this was about 2 days ago, you can go to bbc3 site and here it for yourself, I am NOT lyingf about this, [ i never ly at mudcat], i think i spelled ly wrong, but you know waht i mean, anyway, look at the bbbc site and thst will proove it.john

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: Jon W.
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 01:12 AM

I have enjoyed some operas, others, even quite famous ones, I don't like at all. Many are pompous, pretentious, boring, others are very humorous, enlightening, interesting. I very much doubt you heard a woman screaming in opera. She may have been singing much higher than most people can possibly sing, and loud enough to balance and entire orchestra (without a microphone!) but she wasn't screaming. Bottom line: Opera is much different than most people are used to, it's an acquired taste that needs cultivation to grow, and no, it's not rubbish. I also have the need to understand what I'm listening too, fortunately I speak Italian a little so that's OK.

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: Benjamin
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 01:05 AM

John, opera is one of the most important events in music history. You might find some of the earlier operas more interesting (try L'Orfeo by Monteverdi). Opera did change over the years and I have to admit that I don't care much for the music of some of the biggest opera composers. As for the singers, I think it's simular to any other music in that there are some singers you'll like and some you won't. Not every operatic soprano is as boring as radio would have you think.
As for the language, it really depends on the opera. The idea that any good opera is in Italian is a horrible, out right lie. You might check out Aaron Copland's The Tender Land, or Gershwin's Porgy and Bess for english operas. Those are both American composers, but I'm sure there's British ones out there who wrote in english.
Another good lesson to learn though is that you don't have to like everything.

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 12:56 AM

Ebbie-I have trouble liking the songs if i cant understand them, [NOTE I am NOT taking the piss out of opera people, but with folk music, tyou know exactly waht its about, ie you listen to Marrowbones by martin carthy, or indeed any folk song, and you KNOW, waht its about. even now some modern music [radio 1 etc], you font know waht its about, but folk music tells a story,.
someone said before "what id folk music?"
ok i tell you= folk music tells a story. i post more later [ i'm going to eat now]
ps-clinton-this is music site not spelling site, and spell ceckers not work with internewt tv.john
and waht your favourire martin cartjhy song tyhemnn?
peoplr who post other things , not about the thread piss me off, the just show off.john

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: GUEST,Dale
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 12:52 AM

Everything is rubbish to someone, just as it is music of the Angels for someone else.

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 12:41 AM

It's not half as bad as your typing...

Try a spell checker...

Here's a free one...

http://www.spellcheck.net/

Subject: RE: Is Opera rubbish?
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 12:36 AM

I disagree, John. Mostly because I like the sounds especially when I don't know the language so that it's a tonal thing to me. A male and female singing a duet can sound like angel music. The sound vibrates and echos and swells and diminishes in a marvelous fashion.

That said, I don't care for most operas themselves. I just like a lot of the songs.

Subject: Is Opera rubbish?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 05 Aug 03 - 11:10 PM

I was going to put crap, but thoughyt it might getrt delted if i did!
anyway=yesterdat, i pressed nunmber 3 oin my radio, instead of 4 [ i got radios bbc programed into 1 to 5 in my radio], i pressed 3 by mistaeak, and i thought" " what is this shite?" , i neber heards so mucjh rubbish in my life! [just some womun screaming], opera is not populer in hull, maybe some posh people go, but i dont know them, anyway= i like all types of music [not just folk], but i dont understand operaer, or rave music [boom boomm boom etc[, not even proprer music, if you ask me, it was never like that in my day, etc, they cant even play thhere intruments, its all done with computers, i think opera is rubbish, its all in foreigmm, and people going there are probably just showing off etc.john
ps what you think= is opera rubbish or not[ i reckon it is].john