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BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?

GUEST 13 Aug 03 - 10:46 PM
GUEST 13 Aug 03 - 10:49 PM
GUEST 13 Aug 03 - 11:01 PM
Sorcha 13 Aug 03 - 11:05 PM
Amos 13 Aug 03 - 11:12 PM
GUEST 13 Aug 03 - 11:20 PM
mack/misophist 13 Aug 03 - 11:26 PM
Sorcha 13 Aug 03 - 11:26 PM
toadfrog 13 Aug 03 - 11:46 PM
Amos 14 Aug 03 - 12:04 AM
toadfrog 14 Aug 03 - 12:13 AM
GUEST 14 Aug 03 - 12:22 AM
Peg 14 Aug 03 - 01:30 AM
GUEST 14 Aug 03 - 11:07 AM
Nerd 14 Aug 03 - 11:47 AM
GUEST 14 Aug 03 - 12:03 PM
NicoleC 14 Aug 03 - 12:12 PM
GUEST 14 Aug 03 - 12:29 PM
Ebbie 14 Aug 03 - 12:36 PM
kendall 14 Aug 03 - 12:49 PM
Don Firth 14 Aug 03 - 12:52 PM
GUEST 14 Aug 03 - 01:36 PM
GUEST 14 Aug 03 - 01:41 PM
Don Firth 14 Aug 03 - 01:55 PM
kendall 14 Aug 03 - 03:44 PM
Donuel 14 Aug 03 - 04:20 PM
Big Mick 14 Aug 03 - 10:18 PM
GUEST 14 Aug 03 - 11:34 PM
Teribus 15 Aug 03 - 07:51 AM
Candyman(inactive) 15 Aug 03 - 08:25 AM

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Subject: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 10:46 PM

More than a decade ago, he (Arnold Schwarzenegger) went to Simon Wiesenthal's organization and asked them to investigate his father's background and then he contributed a wad of cash to the Holocaust studies center. If money can buy a recall election, why can't it buy a clean family record?

Link to the above

Google News search

Arnold Schwarzenegger has given 5 million dollars to the Simon Wiesenthal Center. In exchange for that, Schwarzenegger's father has never been given a bogus clean record by Simon Wiesenthal. This is so odiferous it HAS to be commented on. Arnold's father was a member of the Nazi party and killed Jews. When Arnold's father died, his mother married another Nazi who murdered Jews. And Arnold talks about his love for Kurt Waldheim, another murderer of Jews.

"I admire and worship Adolph Hitler as my role model"...Arnold Schwarzenegger, in 'Pumping Iron'

So I guess my point is that we all know Schwarzenegger is a Nazi, but what's the deal with Wiesenthal? You can be part of the Holocaust but buy your way out of it? Help me understand this. Why would Wiesenthal's organization help put another Hitler into power? Is it just the money? Is it stupidity?


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Subject: RE: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 10:49 PM

rather, his father WAS given a bogus clean bill...see how confusing this is?


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Subject: RE: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 11:01 PM

Must . . resist . . trolls . . . . No I can't:

Casting Schwarzenegger as a Nazi sympathizer _ for the greater good of Gov. Gray Davis or any of the other candidates _ is a crime against human memory.
http://www.coloradodaily.com/articles/2003/08/11/news/opinion/opinion01.txt


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Subject: RE: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: Sorcha
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 11:05 PM

Awww shit. I'm so sick of this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: Amos
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 11:12 PM

"Schwarzenegger was born in 1947. He has lived most of his life in the United States. True, his father was a Nazi police official in the old country, but that isn't Arnold's fault. In fact, it was Arnold who outed the old man by asking the Los Angeles-based Simon Wiesenthal Center to investigate his father's past.

Schwarzenegger himself is a strong supporter of Israel and a generous contributor to Jewish causes. For this he has been declared kosher by no less a hard-liner than the head of the Wiesenthal Center, Rabbi Marvin Heir."



I think one or both of our recent GUESTS are being inverted again....


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 11:20 PM

Well, I'm the Guest who started this, and I's still confused. Schwarzenegger has paid the Wiesenthal center millions for a clean bill of health for his old man. And what does a clean bill of health from the politicians at the Wiesenthal Center mean, anyway? Musician Steve Vaus was declared to be 'hateful' by those Wiesenthal hypocrites. So again I'll ask, why do the Wiesenthalers want a Nazi to become governor of California? Look at the Wiesenthal's Hate List...seems you can just buy your way off of it if you have enough money (like Arnold did with his dad), or if you threaten to sue, like Vaus did.

DG


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Subject: RE: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 11:26 PM

I have nothing to say about any of the opinions expressed here. I do, however, suggst that every one examing the logic and grammar of Guest's statements.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: Sorcha
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 11:26 PM

I don't trust Guests who aren't named........what do initals do for me??? Mine are SnG..................why are you so anon? I'm sick of this. Glad I don't live in Cally. Almost 300 filers for a position that is not yet empty...........jaysus.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: toadfrog
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 11:46 PM

Sorcha: Good point. Two, in fact. Who cares who Schwarzenegger's father was? Three of my g.g. uncles fought for the Confederacy. So?


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Subject: RE: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: Amos
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 12:04 AM

Any paranoia in a storm, eh?


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: toadfrog
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 12:13 AM

I'd not heard of Steve Vaus before. Plugging his name into the internet, I get a whole bunch of really kooky right-wing sites, and a bunch of exceedingly kooky extremist songs. I'd say Wiesenthal has a point, if he dubbed him a hate monger.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 12:22 AM

Oh yeah...the music site is the place to go to for unbiased opinions on music. Toadfrog's voluminous research...I'm impressed.

Schwarzenegger is ON FILM saying Adolph Hitler is his role model. So, Arnold approves of the murder of 6 million Jews, and Wiesenthal approves of Arnold after taking his money. By extension, Wiesenthal approves of the Holocaust. Show me where this thinking is wrong.

You are quite an amusing group.

DG


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Subject: RE: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: Peg
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 01:30 AM

I have seen   Pumping Iron; that Hitler quote simply   isn't in there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 11:07 AM

It has been deleted from the revised version. It is in the original version...the one in the stores before politics ever occurred to him.

So anyway, 6 million died in the Holocaust, from most accounts, and Schwarzenegger becomes a 'friend' of the Wiesenthalers for 5 million dollars. That's less than a buck a life. Has the exact price for completely abandoning your announced principles ever been determined by those folks? Pitiful. What a disgrace to the dead.

And since this is a music site, here's a verse that earned a songwriter a place on Wiesenthal's hate list:

We must take America back
Put an end to the gangs and the drugs in the streets.
And the fact that the bad guys most always go free, that is wrong.
We need leaders who lead us, not stick us and bleed us, then take all
our money and send it abroad.
We must take America back. We need prayer in the
schools and more things 'Made In U.S.A.'
It's the least we can do for the red, white and blue.
We must take America back.

The Wiesenthalers consider that hateful. Americans are dying daily in Iraq while the Israelis plot an oil pipeline from Iraq to Haifa (stealing oil), and a Jewish group condemns someone singing about the U.S. Constitution and traditional American values.

AND, the Wiesenthalers support a guy who approves of things like abortion and other Hitler-like eugenics programs.

This all makes the Wiesenthal group look really, really bad.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: Nerd
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 11:47 AM

GAAAAH! I've tried hard not to respond, but like second GUEST, it is difficult!

If Arnold DID say that about Hitler, it does not make it true. In Pumping Iron, the primary impression you get of Arnold is that he won bodybuilding contests partly by his physique and partly by headgaming all the other contenders into failing. It is no coincidence that his partner Franco Columbu never defeated Arnold, but won in Arnold's wake, the year Arnold decided not to compete. Arnold simply bullied him mentally into losing whenever he was around. I'm not saying that this is a good characteristic of Arnold's, just that you need to take everything he said in Pumping Iron with a grain of salt.

Finally, as others have said, his father is really irrelevant to all this. If he DID bribe the Wiesenthal center, then it's a black mark against them much more than against Arnold; after all, who WOULDN'T want to cover it up if their father was a Nazi? Wouldn't it be more shocking if he declared "my father was a Nazi and I'm proud of it?"

Arnold should lose this election for a number of reasons. He is, essentially, a bad actor with no political skills or experience, whose only virtue is that he's famous and lots of people think he's cool. So he's electable, but there is no indication that he can govern. That's always a dangerous combination. Add to that the fact that he is (as revealed in Pumping Iron) Machiavellian, amoral, and willing to screw over his closest friends and worst enemies alike in order to succeed for himself, and you have an even more dangerous proposition, not someone I'd like to see in office.

"His father was a Nazi?" That's lame compared to the REAL reasons why he's scary...


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Subject: RE: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 12:03 PM

Good points, Nerd, I admit. Sure A.S. was psyching the opposition, but then why go back and delete the Hitler bit from his film? Why not say "I was trying to terrify the opposition with horrific imagery?" Well, he COULDN'T spit those words out if he had to, but you get my drift. No, he tried to clean up his record by cheating. And anyway, anyone watching that would know its the steroids talking.

But my issue here is with the Wiesenthalers. A.S. is going to crash and burn in the next couple months unless the Bush Company has figured out some new way to steal elections we can't anticipate, but the lasting fallout from this should be with the Wiesenthal Center. It sold its stamp of approval to a Nazi. That is reprehensible. And then, those whores have the audacity to criticize someone whom I largely agree with...Steve Vaus. Sure he's a bit too far to the political right, but he is correct in his assertions (the same as the Founding Fathers of America made), that America should avoid foreign entanglements. So Vaus says it, and a big Jewish group labels him 'hateful' because if his views caught on, Israel's American tit might dry up. It's just disgusting that a group supposedly dedicated to perpetuating the memory of the Holocaust would support an Austrian Nazi and trash a true American.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: NicoleC
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 12:12 PM

The alleged Hitler quote was never included in the movie -- there was no coverup and no editted version. Whatever Mr. S's faults (and there are many), making up silly stories about non-existent events doesn't make him look worse.

From Jeffrey Wells of the LA Times:

There is also the allegation of Arnold's having said on-camera, during the filming of "Pumping Iron" (1977) by director George Butler, that he "admired" Hitler. This last allegation was included in a 1991 Schwarzenegger biography by Wendy Leigh, who quoted Mr. Butler as her main source. In the summer of 1992 Mr. Schwarzeneger won a libel suit against Ms. Leigh, not regarding her book but a 1988 article she helped write for the British tabloid News of the World that included other allegations. Part of that settlement was an apology from Ms. Leigh, which read, "Mr. Schwarzenegger has never espoused Nazi or anti-Semitic views, has never been an admirer of Hitler's evil regime, and he did not admire or approve of his father's alleged conduct."
In an interview last summer, Mr. Butler did not dispute Ms. Leigh's reporting about Mr. Schwarzenegger's Hitler remark except to say that "the context was power." In the "Pumping Iron" interview in question (an outtake that was never included in the film), Mr. Butler recalls that Mr. Schwarzenegger "said he admired Jesus Christ for the same reason. He was basically saying that he admired famous people and that he wanted to be famous as well."


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Subject: RE: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 12:29 PM

"I want to be like Jesus. I want to be remembered for thousands of years." Direct quote. Call them outtakes if you want, but he said them. Sure A.S. got nervous about ten years ago when he realized it was time to switch to politics, and I imagine he sued lots of people to get his past in order. With Warren Buffet (richest man in America) backing you, you could sue all the people you wanted. A.S. is proud of his supremacist views and even married into the Nazi-supporting Kennedy family. But I digress. The Wiesenthalers should be ashamed for selling dispensations.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 12:36 PM

DG, you just never learn, do you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: kendall
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 12:49 PM

The Kennedys support Nazis? Come out from behind that rock and say that.
Lindberg was also an overt Nazi sympathizer. That was then, this is now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 12:52 PM

Consider the source, folks.

DG, or "Dreaded Guest," or "Dreadful Guest" has been around Mudcat for quite a while, never appearing on music threads, but hanging out and hawking idiotic conspiracy theories and general drivel on the BS and political threads. Why DG is here on a music web site is mysterious, but I have a hunch it's because he, she, or it has been tossed off and generally banned from other sites. DG is taking advantage of Max's generosity and the open-to-all nature of Mudcat to use Mudcat as an outlet for his, her, or it's hatred and paranoia. Obviously this person's knowledge of actual history and political science is non-existent, and any connection with the real world is tenuous at best, but then that doesn't matter. DG is into conspiracy. Any conspiracy, the more outrageous and idiotic, the better. I've called DG a number of times when he, she, or it has made statements about things I have close knowledge of, but DG insists that I am the one who is either deluded or part of the conspiracy that he, she, or it is trying to expose. Also, DG has probably started more threads than any other "guest," and they all have to do with either some asinine conspiracy or just general hate-mongering, such as this one.

DG has a sick mind. Pointless to try to reason with this person.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 01:36 PM

I guess it was the Kennedy comment. Man, you folks have a lot to learn.

Schwarzenegger is a liberal. He is PRO abortion, PRO open borders, PRO gun grabbing. He married a Kennedy and he supports all the little Hitler eugenics issues like abortion. He says 73-year old Riordan is too 'old' to serve, so I guess next California will be debating mandatory euthanasia for the elderly. Schwarzenegger is the super neo-con...conservative label and liberal agenda. An Austrian import Nazi, a man Sen. Orrin Hatch wants to become President. Wants to change the Constitution to make the spawn of a bona fide Nazi President. And the Wiesenthalers support this.

The sickness is in the system, Don, and in those like yourself who refuse to acknowledge it. Terrorists control our govt and have put this turd before the public to draw media attention away from the REAL issues. At the very least, I'm going to make sure people come away from the Schwarzenegger diversion knowing how foul the Wiesenthalers are. And I do this on lots of sites.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 01:41 PM

One more note on A.S. liberalism...Warren Buffet is a Democrat. Richest man in America. And Schwazenegger just took him on as 'financial advisor' for his campaign. The last time Buffet was in the news he was 'advising' people to sell American Dollars and buy Euro Dollars. He is doing all HE can to destroy the American economy, and now this. The anti-American Democrat Buffet running the Austrian-Nazi Republican's campaign for Governor, while a U.S. Senator wants to change the Constitution to make foreign-born admirer of Hitler President. And the Wiesenthalers support this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 01:55 PM

Yup. Same old same old. . . .

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: kendall
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 03:44 PM

...and that rhymes with "P" and that stands for pool..


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Subject: RE: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 04:20 PM

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/arnoldbbb.jpg


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Subject: RE: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: Big Mick
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 10:18 PM

Why are you feeding this old troll? Do I need to start dogging you again, GUEST?

I considered asking Joe to delete this thread. I still think he ought to.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 11:34 PM

Yeah, burn this thread. Zeig Heil. Prove my point for me.

I don't know...you go along thinking Israel is just in the hands of terrorists at the moment, and it'll all pass and someday the Jews will have their homeland and peacefully coexist and blah blah blah...

But then, the Jewish conscience (Wiesenthal Center) has a chance to do something really good and POUNCE on a man who SAYS he loves and admires Nazis...but the venerable Jewish mouthpiece is silent on the subject. Wiesenthal.com should be filled with 72 pt. outrage right now about a Nazi taking advantage of them, but it's not. The big story is Mel Gibson's ver batim recreation of the last hours of Jesus. A NAZI HAS THE ENDORSEMENT OF THE WIESENTHAL CENTER, PEOPLE! Schwarzenegger says he loves Kurt Waldheim. He loves him. A man who murdered Jews in Serbia. Schwarzenegger was raised and groomed by Nazis (not neo-Nazis or skinheads or wannabes...the REAL THING) and he says he loves Nazis while he's being endorsed by the Wiesenthal Center.


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Subject: RE: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: Teribus
Date: 15 Aug 03 - 07:51 AM

A point of detail GUEST - 14 Aug 03 - 11:07 AM

"Americans are dying daily in Iraq while the Israelis plot an oil pipeline from Iraq to Haifa."

Just exactly how the hell are they going to do that?


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Subject: RE: BS: Wiesenthal & Schwarzenegger -- Whassup?
From: Candyman(inactive)
Date: 15 Aug 03 - 08:25 AM

I've just done a complete search of www.wiesenthal.com/.

Guest claims that the Simon Wiesenthal Center has endorsed Arnold Schwarzenegger. That, like most everything else he claims, is a despicable lie.

The one and only mention of Schwarzenegger's name on the entire site is in the caption of a picture of him as he's shown touring the Center's Museum of Tolerance in 1998.

Quite obviously, Guest's motives have nothing to do with discrediting Arnold Schwarzenegger. His motives are aimed at libeling the Simon Wiesenthal Center. This is an anti-Semite at work.

Obvious libel is not a matter of free speech. Threads based on obvious lies,should be shut down.


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