Tech: East Coast, Canada Electric down

Subject: East cCoast, Canada Electric down
From: annamill
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 05:37 PM

Our radio stations are all abuzz with the electric failure in the nor'east.
They are saying Niagra has had problems due to over work. All NY city is down including subways, airports, etc. Obviously it hasn't hit us in central NJ. I'm wondering if anyone from NY is in contact and is everything ok. I'm especially concerned about those people down in the subway! Its hot!

Lets all hope they are ok, ok?

Annamill (an old NY commuter)

Subject: RE: East cCoast, Canada Electric down
From: Deckman
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 05:43 PM

GOOD GRIEF! That's awful. Here, hold out your hands. I'm sending you 33 gallons of electricity ... right now. Question: Do you suppose we're 'gonna have another baby boom in nine months? CHEERS, Bob

Subject: RE: East cCoast, Canada Electric down
From: annamill
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 05:46 PM

That's funny! The exact same thought came to me! ;-)

Then I remembered sitting in hot unaircondidtioned subways!


Scarry!

Annamill

Subject: RE: East cCoast, Canada Electric down
From: annamill
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 05:50 PM

A little more info.

Cities affected include New York; Cleveland, Ohio; Detroit, Michigan; Toronto and Ottawa, Canada. The power outage occurred shortly after 4 p.m.

State officials said the Niagara-Mohawk power grid was overloaded. The grid provides power for New York and stretches into Canada. The officials said the outage is likely a natural occurrence and not related to terrorism.

Subject: RE: East cCoast, Canada Electric down
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 05:59 PM

I hope you all can stay cool until it gets sorted out and stay safe!

Thanks, Anna, for letting us know how you are.

luvyakat

Subject: RE: East cCoast, Canada Electric down
From: Deckman
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 06:03 PM

HOLY KILLOWATTS ANNA! What is it about you and I that make us both think of baby making whenever we are in the dark? Bob

Subject: RE: East Coast, Canada Electric down
From: Amos
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 06:10 PM

Ohoh!! Anna --- I think Bob is makng a pitch atcha!! :>)

A

Subject: RE: East Coast, Canada Electric down
From: Deckman
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 06:21 PM

TOO FUNNY! Bob

Subject: RE: Tech: East Coast, Canada Electric down
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 06:33 PM

I sure hope it isn't terrorism. Doesn't sound like it with all the hot weather. I am on DSL but we should not tie up the phone lines checking on presumably healthy people. Elderly etc. a different story. I think phone lines could jam if everyone calls. mg

Subject: RE: Tech: East Coast, Canada Electric down
From: annamill
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 06:37 PM

A little more info:

Four nuclear power reactors two in New York and two in Ohio reported they were shut down because of the loss of off-site power, according to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission in Bethesda, Md. They were the two Indian Point reactors in New York state, and the Perry and Fermi nuclear power plants in Ohio.

Annamill

Subject: RE: Tech: East Coast, Canada Electric down
From: GUEST,amergin
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 06:39 PM

the news says it is not terrorism....otherwise that wanker in the white house would be going see? i told you so....

Subject: RE: Tech: East Coast, Canada Electric down
From: annamill
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 06:44 PM

Heres more:

At the Homeland Security Department, spokesman Brian Roehrkasse said federal officials were still gathering information and had not determined a cause.

The department ``is working with state and local officials and the energy sector to determine the cause of the outage as well as what response measures may be needed to be taken,'' he said. He said everyone should ``listen and heed the advice of the local authorities.''

My source is www.cbs.com. CNN is too busy and is hard to download.

Subject: RE: Tech: East Coast, Canada Electric down
From: annamill
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 06:46 PM

oops! I shouldn't be copying this stuff. If your interested in this problem, see the news sources.

Love, Annamill

Subject: RE: Tech: East Coast, Canada Electric down
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 07:25 PM

So far they are saying 100% not related to terrorism. The gov. of New Mexico, Clinton's former energy sec., said it had to do with lack of transmission lines regulation and other stuff the politicos don't have the backbone to vote for, due to the heavy lobbying of power companies.

From the looks of it, New Yorkers are doing themselves proud, again! They all look calm and as though they are really trying to keep it bearable.

My daughter in CT has power, unless her answering machine runs on batteries, which I am sure it doesn't. With five-year old twins they never have spare batteries for anything not toy-related!

Subject: RE: Tech: East Coast, Canada Electric down
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 08:11 PM

They just said it was most likely a power plant in Niagara Ontario - maybe a lightening strike. Power's out in Cleveland OH, Detroit MI, Toronto ON, and of course, NYC.

Subject: RE: Tech: East Coast, Canada Electric down
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 08:53 PM

And they just said the Canadian PM said it was a fire in a NY state power plant that did it. Sounds like it's all guessing. Kat, Cuomo and a couple of different electricity experts just said the same thing (transmission) ...on different channels. In any case, looks like the lights are slowly coming back on.

Subject: RE: Tech: East Coast, Canada Electric down
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 09:24 PM

Hooray..and thank God we still produce men and women who can keep these things hobbled together..but anyone who can..I wish it included me..get your own energy system...windmill, solar, bicycle, whatever...I am going to get solar candles..just take them inside.
Don't worry about hooking up to the grid and getting money back...just be self-sufficient. mg

Subject: RE: Tech: East Coast, Canada Electric down
From: SINSULL
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 09:29 PM

Fascinating listening to the variety of reporters who are visibly disappointed that there is no terrorism, looting, panic, or deaths. Too bad, guys. Maybe next time.

And now we have the plus side of 911. Each city was prepared to jump into action and handle the crisis relatively smoothly and safely. Congratulations to all involved but especially to the regular 9 to 5ers who took it all in stride.

Subject: RE: Tech: East Coast, Canada Electric down
From: DonMeixner
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 09:32 PM

9:30 PM

Just now, out of the dark.

Don

Subject: RE: Tech: East Coast, Canada Electric down
From: Deckman
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 09:45 PM

So ... Annamill ... let's get back to this baby making thing! (just kidding!). Bob

Subject: RE: Tech: East Coast, Canada Electric down
From: annamill
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 10:05 PM

Too late Bob. The lights are back on! Thank goodness! No reports of anyone hurt! I can sleep tonight!
Whew!

Love, Annamill

Subject: RE: Tech: East Coast, Canada Electric down
From: NicoleC
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 10:15 PM

Permit me a cruel chuckle. I heard so much crap from folks in NYC about how California was too dumb to keep the lights on... mwahahahaha!

Meanwhile, Bush is talking about how all of this transmission line stuff is a sign that the electrical system needs to be modernized. Yet, for California, he blamed the exact same %$*&^#! problem on Californians. What a moron.

Subject: RE: Tech: East Coast, Canada Electric down
From: Deckman
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 10:34 PM

Damn damn ... well, maybe next time! CHEERS, Bob

Subject: RE: Tech: East Coast, Canada Electric down
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 11:06 PM

It has the Max virus.

Overworked, underpaid, short-fused, unrelenting-unthankful DEMAND. As long as it hasn't hit New Jersey - no-one gives a dam.

Subject: RE: Tech: East Coast, Canada Electric down
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 15 Aug 03 - 12:19 AM

When I moved to Hilo in 1994, people told us about the rolling blackouts that kept occurring on the Big Island due to antiquated power systems. We built our house off the grid, partly because we wanted to, and partly because the power company wanted to charge us $60,000 to run power 1/2 mile to the property. I had fantasies of looking at a blacked-out Hilo town across the Bay while listening to the stereo or watching a movie.

Then they improved the Big Island power system, and meanwhile I had to deal with power outages all the time: forgetting to get gasoline for the generator, generator breaking down, inverter set wrong, generator breaking down again, gecko climbing into the highly sophisticated and expensive Trace inverter and electrocuting itself while wiping out the highly sensitive field effect transistors, running out of gas again, generator running low on oil and shutting down, inverter still set wrong, replacement inverter going haywire because it was defective, generator throwing a rod and nearly doing me in in the process, etc., etc., etc.   It was certainly an adventure.

I'm still trying to figure out why a system that is specfically designed to even out power demands collapses like a house of cards when something like this happens.

You're right, Nicole...there couldn't possibly be any irresponsible energy-wasting people in the Northeast!

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Tech: East Coast, Canada Electric down
From: hesperis
Date: 15 Aug 03 - 07:18 PM

It was rather anticlimactic for me, although food and water could still be a problem.

Power went off at around 4 PM, went on again at 10:30 PM and actually stayed all night. I've moved to my new place today instead of yesterday though, and now the power here seems to be more stable.

Some of my friends aren't doing so well, and some places have declared an emergency situation.

I hope everything stays ok.

Me and a friend went and played flute together for a couple of hours last night. It was fun. It was wonderful to hear the quiet, and to be able to play acoustic instruments without needing to amp just to get past the street noise.

Subject: RE: Tech: East Coast, Canada Electric down
From: Willie-O
Date: 16 Aug 03 - 04:45 AM

I live one hour west of Ottawa. Our power was off from 4 p.m. Thursday until 11 a.m. Friday, then from 2 - 4 p.m. again as they ran (intentional this time) rolling blackouts.

Strangely enough, peaceful Ottawa seemed to have more incidents of looting than anywhere else that I heard of--22 as opposed to 4 in NYC! Two of the three reported deaths (in the whole outage area) were in Ottawa too, and there were several opportunistic armed robberies. My hometown seems to be changing somewhat.

It seems the politicians on both sides of the border are playing the "blame the other country" game without actually lying. All the reports seem to indicate that actual power station incidents occurred in the U.S., possibly relating to the Con Edison plant in Manhattan, a lightning strike in Niagara Falls NY, or, most ominously, what was reported variously as a "fire" or a "shutdown" at an unspecified nuke in Pennsylvania. That's why our PM is saying it's American-caused.

The other side of the coin is that the situation may indeed have been related to a sudden increase in demand from the Canadian side--which caused the whole grid to become unstable when one or more of the incidents occurred at the American plants.

Truthfully, it's entirely credible to me that there was a problem on the Canadian side. The Ontario government has shown themselves to be a bunch of complete nitwits with no idea how to run a complex power system, they keep making radical changes (you guessed it--deregulation and "free market") then back-tracking three months later. They also broke up Ontario Hydro into several different companies. One runs generating plants, another runs all transmission facilities, and yet another, which sounds like a stock market, decides what power goes where when. If there's a bright side to this, it's another drop-kick to the Tories chances of re-election.

Everything seems OK now, until the next crisis. Except I can't get e-mail.

Bill

Bill

Subject: RE: Tech: East Coast, Canada Electric down
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Aug 03 - 08:33 AM

It became pretty clear to me early on that the news media were desperately trying to provide an answer to "why," and possibilities were occasionally presented as facts. Every place that lost power had some sort of problem. It's always easier to blame someone else or nature than saying "Oops. Maybe our back-up systems and contingency plans use work."

One thing I found interesting was that Cleveland instituted a curfew for people under 19 years old. The mayor of NYC stated emphatically that there would be no curfew. I think I remember him saying people should take the opportunity to go out, meet their neighbors and check on people who might have problems. In my opinion, that had a lot to do with the scarcity of crime - the more people out on the sidewalks and stoops, the better, not the other way around.

Subject: RE: Tech: East Coast, Canada Electric down
From: Willie-O
Date: 16 Aug 03 - 09:57 AM

Quite true, Jeri. Lots and lots of cooperative behaviour was shown. Unfortunately, relatively a lot of rowdiness too. On a hot summer night though, it was much more comfortable to be outside than inside a building which is designed to use A/C and doesn't have it.

By the way, we in Ontario shouldn't have been surprised by this occurrence. We've been warned about impending power shortages all summer. The problem is Ontario went overboard building nukes in the 60's through 80's, was up to I believe 60% nuclear generation at one point, but those plants are all aging now. They represent a huge debtload (there's even a line on our hydro bills for 'debt retirement'), and several of them are offline for overhauls, which all take longer and cost more than expected. The current provincial government has done dick-all to encourage conservation or alternative power development, all they've done is restructure the utilities to no apparent advantage to consumers. Echoes of California.   All the northeast needs is to combine these supply problems with a faulty grid--and i don't know, are any of the affected states faced with the same kinds of supply problems?--and a high-demand hot summer day...bingo. Right at rush hour.

Subject: RE: Tech: East Coast, Canada Electric down
From: NicoleC
Date: 16 Aug 03 - 11:46 AM

Yep, CA has the same problem with nuclear power plants. First, the energy companies convinced us we needed them, and the legislature funded their construction with bill hikes. Then, when the plants turned out not to be profitable, the energy companies whined again, and the legislature wrote off their debt with more bill hikes. Meanwhile (under regulation then) the energy companies ticked along making the same good profit. One wonders why they wanted deregulation in the first place, except rampant greed.

Subject: RE: Tech: East Coast, Canada Electric down
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 16 Aug 03 - 06:06 PM

The emergency that wasn't...