Ray Whitley: Guitar neck strumming/picking?

Subject: Guitar neck strumming/picking?
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Aug 03 - 12:08 AM

I've been watching a lot of the old B&W cowboy movies, lately, including Gene Autry's. I was too young to see them as a kid, so it's been fun to see a few, esp. the ones which include singing, and often, a Bob Wills-type band.

Anyway, I saw one yesterday called Along the Rio Grande with Tim Holt. He wasn't the one doing the playing and they didn't run the credits, but it sure looked as though the cowboys were really musicians. One thing I noticed which I've never seen before was the guitar players both strummed/picked along the neck, rather than over the sound hole. They sounded good, but I am wondering why they do it that way. Is it a particular style or some kind of special effect or were they faking it?

Thanks!

Subject: RE: Guitar neck strumming/picking?
From: C-flat
Date: 23 Aug 03 - 03:23 AM

I suspect they were closing in to make a better grouping for the camera. Strumming/picking slightly forward of the sound-hole on some guitars gives a more mellow, warmer sound, the tone hardens as you play nearer the bridge, but strumming right up the neck would have more to do with how the instrument was held than anything else.(Unless those cowboys were into "tapping", Van-Halen style)
Mmmm, maybe not.

Subject: RE: Guitar neck strumming/picking?
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Aug 03 - 10:04 AM

I wondered if the more mellow tone was part of it, c-flat. Thanks!

Subject: RE: Guitar neck strumming/picking?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Aug 03 - 12:45 PM

If you were playing while riding a horse I think it'd probably be easier if the two hands were relatively close together.

Subject: RE: Guitar neck strumming/picking?
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Aug 03 - 02:55 PM

Well, I just did some searching on google and found a really neat bio etc. on Ray Whitley, the lead guitarist in the movie who also played the character named "Smokey."

It seems he was quite a composer/songwriter and all around good person. He was the one who wrote the first draft of what became Gene Autry's signature song "I'm back in the saddle, again." The above article is really good, plus there are some photos. One of them shows him in a movie poster and he's got his strumming hand just at the base of the neck. I wish I could describe the loose and easy way he and the other fellow played. It was a pleasure to watch.

Seems he knew a thing or two about guitars, esp. for cowboys, too, from this excerpt:

Ray, using his own money and time, had designed a guitar which he took to the Gibson people, explaining to them the features and benefits of the instrument, and how, by building such guitars and presenting them to the Western stars of that era, they'd really put the Gibson name on the musical instrument map. That was in 1937, and the Gibson SJ-200 series has been used by most top-liners ever since, the most recent of which is Emmy Lou Harris.

kat

Subject: RE: Ray Whitley: Guitar neck strumming/picking?
From: Paul G.
Date: 23 Aug 03 - 03:01 PM

A friend of mine, and fine Florida singer/songwriter, Ken Skeens plays exclusively on the neck -- both strumming and a modified two finger picking style. It just fits his style perfectly -- Ken has a very mellow, soft baritone voice. The "on the neck" position compliments his gentle style. He's the only one I know who plays that way.

Paul

Subject: RE: Ray Whitley: Guitar neck strumming/picking?
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Aug 03 - 05:14 PM

That's interesting, Paul. You and he would probably enjoy seeing the above film, then. They do at least two songs with the band playing and the movie itself is only about 60 minutes. Pretty corny, but still worth watching. If your friend has cable it was on the Westerns channel.

Thanks,

kat

Subject: RE: Ray Whitley: Guitar neck strumming/picking?
From: GUEST,John Hardly
Date: 23 Aug 03 - 08:39 PM

Actually Kat,

If you were to line up a whole buncha Gibsons (especially J45s) from that era, you'd find, without a doubt, that the tops have severe pickwear ABOVE the pickguard.

It was the fashion of the day to play up there. It was about tone and it was about swing style chords being strummed.

I'd bet if Rick chimed in here he'd back me up ('cause he likes the gibbys and epis from that era).

Subject: RE: Ray Whitley: Guitar neck strumming/picking?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 23 Aug 03 - 08:50 PM

I usually play a bit forward of the soundhole when accompanying swing music. The tone just seems more appropriate to the genre. Swing seems to want the slightly muffled tone with less bass response that you get with up-the-neck playing.

Bruce

Subject: RE: Ray Whitley: Guitar neck strumming/picking?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Aug 03 - 09:03 PM

I know what you mean, but surely in this case it's "down the neck" playing?

Subject: RE: Ray Whitley: Guitar neck strumming/picking?
From: Paul G.
Date: 23 Aug 03 - 10:10 PM

Here's a web site with 2 pictures of Ken Skeens (mentioned above). His right hand position is more evidently up the neck in the left -- but you can get the idea... click

Subject: RE: Ray Whitley: Guitar neck strumming/picking?
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Aug 03 - 10:54 PM

Kewl, Paul, thanks!

John, thanks for the info. I'll send Rick a PM. I agree it does seem to fit with the swing sound...during those two songs, I kept hearing that signature Bob Will's "ah-ha" in my head!:-)

McGrath...seems up is right since it is the strumming hand doing the moving; if it 'twas the chording hand, surely that would be down the neck, eh? But, then I don't play gee-tar, so....:-)

kat

Subject: RE: Ray Whitley: Guitar neck strumming/picking?
From: Matt_R
Date: 23 Aug 03 - 10:57 PM

I do a lot of strumming up the neck and fingering on the neck as well. Besides the throbbing mellow tone you receive from that area, it's perfect for dampened guitar chops. Also, if you strum very lightly, it's has a pretty, soft sound like freezing rain on a tin roof. In addition, if the strings are capoed up to like the 3rd, 4th or 5th fret, it adds to the pleasantness of the sound.

Subject: RE: Ray Whitley: Guitar neck strumming/picking?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 24 Aug 03 - 03:50 PM

Just listen to those old Johnny Cash Sun recordings.
Not only did he strum up the neck, but he sometimes put tissue under the strings.