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Lyr Req: The Two Magicians (A. L. Lloyd)

DigiTrad:
HIDE WILLIE HIDE
THE TWO MAGICIANS
TWA MAGICIANS
TWO MAGICIANS


Related threads:
Lyr Req: Coal-Black Smith? / Two Magicians (25)
(origins) Origins: Two Magicians (61)
Chords Req: Two Magicians (14)
Lyr Req: Two Magicians -at Reed College Renn Fayre (5)
Twa Magicians (7)


Roberto 26 Aug 03 - 07:05 AM
s&r 26 Aug 03 - 07:08 AM
s&r 26 Aug 03 - 07:10 AM
Roberto 26 Aug 03 - 11:22 AM
Malcolm Douglas 26 Aug 03 - 11:53 AM
Roberto 26 Aug 03 - 12:13 PM
Joe Offer 26 Aug 03 - 02:06 PM
Susan of DT 26 Aug 03 - 06:05 PM
Roberto 27 Aug 03 - 03:18 AM
Malcolm Douglas 27 Aug 03 - 11:54 AM
GUEST,ade j 21 Sep 11 - 08:27 PM
Reinhard 22 Sep 11 - 05:39 AM
Mr Happy 06 Oct 17 - 12:02 PM
RTim 06 Oct 17 - 12:11 PM
Mr Happy 06 Oct 17 - 04:32 PM
RTim 06 Oct 17 - 04:47 PM
GUEST,Brian Peters 06 Oct 17 - 08:04 PM
Jim Dixon 11 Oct 17 - 06:12 PM
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE TWO MAGICIANS (A. L. Lloyd)
From: Roberto
Date: 26 Aug 03 - 07:05 AM

Could somebody please help me to complete and correct the text of the ballad Two Magicians as sung by A. L. Lloyd? Thank you. Roberto

This is what I could get:


THE TWO MAGICIANS
As recorded by A. L. Lloyd on the various-artists album "The Bird in the Bush: Traditional Songs of Love and Lust" (1996)

1. The lady stood at her own front door
As straight as a willow wand,
And along there come a husky smith
With a hammer in his hand.

2. And he said: "Bide, lady, bide.
There's nowhere you can hide.
The husky smith will be your love
And that'll pull down your pride.

3. "Well may you dress you, lady fair,
All in your robes of red.
Before tomorrow at this same time,
I'll have your maidenhead."

4. Saying: "Bide, lady, bide.
There's nowhere you can hide.
The husky smith will be your love
And that'll pull down your pride."

5. "Away, away, you coal-black smith.
Would you do me this wrong,
To think to have me maidenhead
That I have kept so long?

6. "I'd rather I was dead and cold
And my body laid in the grave
Than a husky, dusky, coal-black smith
My maidenhead should have."

7. Then the lady, she held up her hand
And swore upon her soul
She never would be the blacksmith's love
For all of a box of gold.

8. And the blacksmith, he held up his hand
And he swore upon the mass:
"I'll have you for my love, my girl,
For the half of that or less."

9. Saying: "Bide, lady, bide.
There's nowhere you can hide.
The husky smith will be your love
And that'll lay down your pride."

10. Then she became a turtle dove
And flew up in the air,
And he became an old cock pigeon
And they flew pair and pair.

11. And he cooed: "Bide, lady, bide.
There's nowhere you can hide.
The husky smith will be your love
And that'll pull down your pride."

12. And she became a little duck
A-floating in the pond,
And he became a pink-necked drake
And chased her round and round,

13. Quacking: "Bide, lady, bide.
There's nowhere you can hide.
The husky smith will be your love
And that'll pull down your pride."

14. She turned herself into a hare
And ran upon the plain,
And he became a greyhound dog
And fetched her back again,

15. Barking: "Bide, lady, bide.
There's nowhere you can hide.
The husky smith will be your love
And that'll pull down your pride."

16. And she became a little ewe sheep
And lay all on the common,
And he became a shaggy old ram
And swiftly fell upon her,

17. Saying: "Bide, lady, bide.
There's nowhere you can hide.
The husky smith will be your love
And that'll lay down your pride."

18. She changed herself to a swift young mare
As dark as the night was black,
And he became a golden saddle
And clung unto her back,

19. Saying: "Bide, lady, bide.
There's nowhere you can hide.
The husky smith will be your love
And that'll pull down your pride."

20. And she became a little green fly
A-flew up in the air,
And he became a hairy spider
And fetched her in his lair,

21. Saying: "Bide, lady, bide.
There's nowhere you can hide.
The husky smith will be your love
And that'll pull down your pride."

22. Then she became a hot griddle
And he became a cake,
And every change that poor girl made
The blacksmith was her mate,

23. Saying: "Bide, lady, bide.
There's nowhere you can hide.
The husky smith will be your love,
And that'll pull down your pride."

24. She turned herself to a full-dressed ship
A-sailing on the sea,
And he became a captain bold
And on board of her went he,

25. Saying: "Bide, lady, bide.
There's nowhere you can hide.
The husky smith will be your love,
And that'll pull down your pride."

26. So the lady ran in her own bedroom
And changed into a bed,
And he became a green coverlet
And gained her maidenhead.

27. And was she woe, he held her so
And still he bade her bide,
And the husky smith became her love,
And that pulled down her pride.

[Changes made based on comments below.--A Mudelf.]


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians
From: s&r
Date: 26 Aug 03 - 07:08 AM

Will try to find the missing words - it's lusty not husky though...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians
From: s&r
Date: 26 Aug 03 - 07:10 AM

It's in the dt database complete with music


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians
From: Roberto
Date: 26 Aug 03 - 11:22 AM

Thank you, s&r, but the song in the database is different from what A. L. Lloyd actually sings. As for "lusty", many texts have "lusty"; Martin Carthy sings "lusty". But I don't think that "lusty" is the word sung by A. L. Lloyd. It is necessary to listen to the recording. I wait with hope. Roberto


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 26 Aug 03 - 11:53 AM

The text in the DT contains a number of mishearings and other errors of transcription. It seems to have been made by ear from a record by Tony Barrand and John Roberts; their own transcription is at  http://www.sover.net/~barrand/rgh/darkships.html.

Actually, some details of that, too, seem a little odd. The trouble here is that this is Bert Lloyd's own song (though based on traditional material), and he seems to have added extra verses from time to time as the mood took him. Various people learnt it from him, and how they sing it depends on what he had been doing with it at the time. Others have learnt these from records; and so it goes on. It isn't a traditional song as it stands, but is perhaps on the way to becoming one; considerable variation is already appearing.

One example is the husky/lusty business. s&r is wrong about that; Bert was singing "husky" at the time he recorded the song, though others do sing "lusty", as I expect he did himself on other occasions. Roberto's transcription is quite accurate. I'd just add

Verse 16: little ewe sheep
Verse 18: clung onto her back
Verse 24: full-dressed ship
Verse 27: And was she woe, he held her so

I can't make out the word or two preceding "drake".

A couple of general points. "Blacksmith" is a single word, not two. Although Lloyd pronounces "my" as "me", that is just pronounciation, not dialect, and my own feeling is that it's best to spell it the normal way, as "my"; that way people will select the pronounciation that comes naturally to them, rather than copying "me" under the impression that it's prescriptive. One might take a different approach when transcribing a song from a traditional singer, of course, but that's a rather different situation.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians
From: Roberto
Date: 26 Aug 03 - 12:13 PM

Thank you very much, Malcolm Douglas. The only problem remains the "drake". Roberto


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Aug 03 - 02:06 PM

The version in the Digital Tradition has the filename MAGICN2, chich gives me the impression there should be another version in the database. I was going to add that other version to the crosslinks, but I can't find it. Anybody know of other versions of this song in the database? Has a more definitive version of the lyrics been posted? As far as I can see, the best version posted yet is the Steeleye Span version, and I think we ought to be able to do better than that.
-Joe Offer-
Here's the entry from the Traditional Ballad Index:

Twa Magicians, The [Child 44]

DESCRIPTION: A (blacksmith) sees a girl who pleases him, and sets out to sleep with her. She tries to foil him with magic transformations, but he proves as sorcerous as she, and gains her maidenhead
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1828 (Buchan)
KEYWORDS: magic seduction rape shape-changing
FOUND IN: Britain(England)
REFERENCES (7 citations):
Child 44, "The Twa Magicians" (1 text)
Bronson 44, "The Twa Magicians" (1 version plus eleven texts of "Hares on the Mountain")
Leach, pp. 152-154, "The Twa Magicians" (1 text)
PBB 25, "The Twa Magicians" (1 text)
Sharp-100E 20, "The Two Magicians" (1 text, 1 tune) {Bronson's #1}
DBuchan 47, "The Twa Magicians" (1 text)
DT 44, MAGICN2*

RECORDINGS:
A. L. Lloyd, "Two Magicians" (on Lloyd3, BirdBush1, BirdBush2) [tune by Lloyd]
CROSS-REFERENCES:
cf. "Hares on the Mountain" (theme)
Notes: Sharp bowdlerizes "gain my maidenhead" to "change my maiden name" (!) -PJS
Bronson believes that the ballad "Hares on the Mountain" is a very-much-worn-down version of this piece. This is, at best, currently beyond proof; personally, I don't believe it.
The idea of gaining a lover who is changing shape has ancient roots. We find it in Ovid's "Metamorphoses," where Peleus (the father of Achilles) finds Thetis in a cave and attempts to couple with her. To defeat him, she turns into a bird, a tree, and a tigress. The latter scares him off, but eventually he catches her while asleep (XI.225ff.). - RBW
File: C044

Go to the Ballad Search form
Go to the Ballad Index Instructions

The Ballad Index Copyright 2003 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians
From: Susan of DT
Date: 26 Aug 03 - 06:05 PM

Joe - I wonder if we lost the other version at some point. Songs do vanish at times. I'll check some of the older DTs I have around.

20 minutes later: After checking the 1996 and 1991 versions of the DT for the elusive other version, I remembered my logic. The 2 is for TWO magicians, not the second version.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians
From: Roberto
Date: 27 Aug 03 - 03:18 AM

I think that A. L. Lloyd's version would deserve a place in the Database. With Malcolm Douglas' corrections, I think we have the whole text, except for the two little words before "drake". F.J. Child has "rose-kaimd drake", but it is not what Lloyd sings. One last effort, please, to get the missing words! Thank you. Roberto


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 27 Aug 03 - 11:54 AM

Further:

Verse 3: Well may you dress

Verse 12: Pink-necked


The DT text is Lloyd's re-write, though with some mistakes. Aside from them, it's as "authentic" as Roberto's transcription, though filtered through other people since Lloyd. The text above comes directly from a recording by Lloyd, though, and includes verses not so often sung, so is in that sense more complete and, I suppose, "authentic".

So far as recall, all known traditional texts (there are very few) have been posted in one of the earlier discussions (see links above); together, of course, with a number of modern verses made up by other people and tacked onto both William Sparks' traditional version and Bert Lloyd's rewrite. Sadly, some of those "fake" verses had found their way into the text of the former I posted three years ago. Nothing against people adding to songs, but such additions should be indicated so that no one imagines that they are authentic and proceeds to use them as "evidence" of something (in the case of this particular song that tends to be the "pagan origins" canard).

It is also time that the Traditional Ballad Index removed that remark accusing Sharp of bowdlerising Mr Sparks' set. They may think that the word ought to be "maidenhead", but that isn't what the man sang. He sang "maiden name", and Sharp wrote it down.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians
From: GUEST,ade j
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 08:27 PM

pink-necked drake?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians
From: Reinhard
Date: 22 Sep 11 - 05:39 AM

yes


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians
From: Mr Happy
Date: 06 Oct 17 - 12:02 PM

There's no mention of any number magicians in the versions I've heard or perused.

Does anyone know why the song has this title?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians
From: RTim
Date: 06 Oct 17 - 12:11 PM

Because the majority of the song versions are about Two Magicians..........
..see .Roud 1350

Tim Radford


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians
From: Mr Happy
Date: 06 Oct 17 - 04:32 PM

Tim, thanks.

However, can you point me to any version which mentions magicians, please?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians
From: RTim
Date: 06 Oct 17 - 04:47 PM

No Mr Happy - it is simply implied by the actions taken by the two people in the story - they can Magically "Shape Shift"...........

Tim Radford


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians
From: GUEST,Brian Peters
Date: 06 Oct 17 - 08:04 PM

The ballad has that title because that's what Francis James Child decided to call it. One of his more sensible choices, IMO.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Two Magicians (A. L. Lloyd)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 11 Oct 17 - 06:12 PM

In verse 6, I think he sings "husky, dusky" (rather than "dusty").


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