Mandolin Style in Alt-Country Songs

Subject: Mandolin Style in Alt-Country Songs
From: Áine
Date: 04 Sep 03 - 06:21 PM

I've been listening to alot of 'alternative-country' female singers/bands lately, and I've noticed that many of the mandolin players have a 'lead guitar' style, if that makes any sense. They're definitely not much for the old '2-4' chop way of playing, that's for sure.

There seems to be alot of slurs/slides and blues type of treatments for the music. Is it just me, or is this a growing style of mando playing?

All the best, Áine

Subject: RE: Mandolin Style in Alt-Country Songs
From: Willie-O
Date: 04 Sep 03 - 09:22 PM

It started a few years back when there was a kind of mini-vogue in having a bit of mandolin sound in non-traditional types of music...Bruce Springsteen, John Cougar Mellencamp and like that. And yes, a lot of guitar players pick up a mandolin and try to strum it like a guitar. It ain't my favourite approach to the instrument, but sounds OK with a good player doing it. But nothing can beat a good mandolin chop. I don't really understand why you'd want to make it sound like a guitar, as a rhythm instrument, when it has it's own great sound.

It's all whether you have a mando right hand or a guitar right hand, I guess...

W-O

Subject: RE: Mandolin Style in Alt-Country Songs
From: Amos
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 12:33 AM

I think Willie-O has captured the heart of the matter.


Chacun a son gout, I suppose -- I agree it seems a slippery slope!


A

Subject: RE: Mandolin Style in Alt-Country Songs
From: Áine
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 12:56 AM

Thanks for refreshing this thread, Amos. And thanks to Willie-O for responding back in September, too. I missed seeing your comments.

I don't really understand why you'd want to make it sound like a guitar, as a rhythm instrument, when it has it's own great sound. -- Exactly what I thought, Willie-O. I've listened to all the MP3s available on the Mandolin Cafe site, and there's so much 'more' to the mandolin than trying to make it sound like a guitar.

I guess I just wondered if the 'guitar' sound was a new trend . . . but, to me at least, it just resembles attempts at producing a pig's ear from a silk purse . . . so to speak. ;-)

All the best, Áine

Subject: RE: Mandolin Style in Alt-Country Songs
From: Willie-O
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 11:03 AM

When you're a guitar strummer, that's how your right hand operates, without even thinking about it. So it's natural enough that they start playing it that way.

A lot of people, upon finding out what that weird little guitar is, will ask to hear "Mandolin Wind". I can't say how many times I've disappointed them by explaining that it's not a mandolin tune...same goes for "This Old Mandolin", one of my totally favourite songs.

W=O

Subject: RE: Mandolin Style in Alt-Country Songs
From: GUEST,Southside
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 07:19 PM

I am a guitarist and I have been fooling around with the mandolin. I like it a lot. It is helping me hear better. I have been listening to lot's of Grisman, Sam Bush, Bill Monroe. They are all very different and they all sound great. Shouldn't it just be about feel? After all, didn't Bill Monroe introduce a totally different style of music to the world?

On another note, where could I find names of players and possibly recordings of the blues style of mandolin from the early 20th century that dropped out of vogue? Any info greatly appreciated.

Subject: RE: Mandolin Style in Alt-Country Songs
From: Áine
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 10:05 PM

Hey there, Southside!

To answer your second question first ;-) -- the best place to get it answered would be at the Message Board on the Mandolin Cafe.

Now, to answer your first question -- sure, it is all about the 'feel'. I find it interesting that since I've been playing the mandolin, I've become a much better guitar player. My left hand is much more confident and seems to move more quickly between chords. Go figure. And even though I don't use a plectrum when I play the guitar, I feel like my fingerpicking is much more confident, too.

I agree that the mando 'opens up' your ears -- I've been able to figure out turn arounds on the guitar that I didn't 'hear' before I picked up the mando.

All the best, Áine

Subject: RE: Mandolin Style in Alt-Country Songs
From: Mark Clark
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 11:26 PM

There is an old tradition of playing blues on mandolin predating anything even remotely like bluegrass. I used to listen a lot to Yank Rachel forty years ago in Chicago and he'd already been recording for thirty-five years. I got to see him again in 1993 just four years before he died at age 87 and he could still play. We got a chance to visit a little, it was good to see him.

Jethro Burns was another early player to take the mandolin in other directions as was Buck White when he founded The Down Home Folks (now known as The Whites). As I recall, Buck was originally a piano player.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Mandolin Style in Alt-Country Songs
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 01:23 PM

Here's a site that features the Russian Virtuosi Project--three women whose playing will perk up your ears!

Russian Virtuosi Project

Other mando monsters: Dave Apollon, Jethro Burns

blue clicky added by mudelf ;-)

Subject: RE: Mandolin Style in Alt-Country Songs
From: Cluin
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 03:42 PM

The more, the better, in my opinion. Why limit the instrument to a certain style? It started out as a classical instrument, got used in a lot of dance-style bands and early mariachi stuff, and Bill Monroe took it to new levels with bluegrass a generation and a half ago. I look forward to seeing new developments in technique. It's such a great instrument that it deserves much more than a recurring "fad" status.

Subject: RE: Mandolin Style in Alt-Country Songs
From: Áine
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 05:02 PM

Wow! I just listened to the MP3 of Tsigankov, Impromptu in Country Style on the Russian Virtuosi Project page and it is fantastic! Thanks to much to the Guest for the heads up.

And I totally agree with you, Cluin, that we shouldn't limit the mando to any style. I haven't heard any style of music that I haven't liked on the mandolin. Even the 'lead guitar' playing that I first mentioned in this thread has its merits, in the context of the songs in which I heard it. I just thought it an odd way to approach playing the mandolin, that's all.

And I wouldn't worry about the instrument being just a fad, Cluin.   I've found mandolins being played in many different styles all over the world the last couple of years. It's fantastic!!

All the best, Áine

Subject: RE: Mandolin Style in Alt-Country Songs
From: GUEST,Whistle Stop
Date: 14 Oct 03 - 08:12 AM

I've been a guitar player for the last 35 years or so, and started adding mandolin to the mix about ten years ago. The two instruments really do complement each other nicely, and I agree that the musical lessons learned on one can add dimension to the other.

I'm not a "chopper," however. The chop was developed in order to give a stronger rhythmic foundation to bluegrass, a music that is typically played on a bunch of stringed instruments with no drums or other percussion. In alt-country, there's usually a drummer, and hence less of a need for the mandolin chop. Admittedly, there are lots of guitar players in that genre who play mandolin as a second isntrument, and therefore approach it more like a guitar. But I also think that part of the reason you don't hear the chop so much in alt-country (or rock and roll, for that matter) is because it isn't really needed.

Subject: RE: Mandolin Style in Alt-Country Songs
From: Áine
Date: 14 Oct 03 - 09:31 AM

Thanks for the input, Whistle Stop. Now that you've explained it from the viewpoint of different band styles, I can see why I'm hearing (or not hearing) what my ears expect to be there. I'm definitely going to do some more listening to the alt-country bands with a new attitude.

Vive la difference!

All the best, Áine

Subject: RE: Mandolin Style in Alt-Country Songs
From: John Hardly
Date: 14 Oct 03 - 10:20 AM

excellent observation whistle stop.

Subject: RE: Mandolin Style in Alt-Country Songs
From: Willie-O
Date: 14 Oct 03 - 02:53 PM

Hey, no doubt W-S is right about the origin of the style, but some nice chop is a relief to the ears on a country tune. Nothing better to back up a waltz. The way I see it, which ties into Aine's original point, you generally don't want different instruments playing the same rhythm pattern at the same time--you want rhythms that complement each other. If I'm playing second guitar, sometimes I play it mando style, comping chords and playing tremolo...works for me.

I've gotten to be a better guitarist too since I started on mandolin, but twenty-four years should have that effect...

W-O

Subject: RE: Mandolin Style in Alt-Country Songs
From: Mark Ross
Date: 14 Oct 03 - 03:19 PM

You should also listen to Woody Guthrie's mandolin playing. HE played in old-timey style, but on some songs his rhythym playing was a precurser of rock and roll mandolin.

Mark Ross