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BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration

GUEST,Old Guy 28 Oct 05 - 01:22 PM
Amos 28 Oct 05 - 11:10 AM
GUEST,Old Guy 28 Oct 05 - 12:52 AM
Bobert 27 Oct 05 - 10:42 PM
Amos 27 Oct 05 - 09:57 PM
Bobert 27 Oct 05 - 09:40 PM
Amos 27 Oct 05 - 05:26 PM
Amos 27 Oct 05 - 02:17 PM
GUEST,Old Guy 27 Oct 05 - 09:10 AM
GUEST,A 27 Oct 05 - 08:49 AM
Bobert 26 Oct 05 - 07:49 PM
GUEST,A 26 Oct 05 - 01:18 PM
Bobert 25 Oct 05 - 08:45 PM
Amos 25 Oct 05 - 08:32 PM
Amos 25 Oct 05 - 08:22 PM
Amos 25 Oct 05 - 08:18 PM
Amos 25 Oct 05 - 03:34 PM
Amos 25 Oct 05 - 01:11 PM
Amos 25 Oct 05 - 11:12 AM
GUEST,a 25 Oct 05 - 10:47 AM
Donuel 25 Oct 05 - 10:47 AM
Amos 25 Oct 05 - 09:51 AM
GUEST,a 25 Oct 05 - 09:28 AM
Don Firth 24 Oct 05 - 08:57 PM
GUEST,TIA 24 Oct 05 - 08:13 PM
Bobert 24 Oct 05 - 07:50 PM
Bobert 23 Oct 05 - 09:03 PM
Amos 23 Oct 05 - 06:29 PM
GUEST,Old Guy 23 Oct 05 - 03:09 PM
Amos 23 Oct 05 - 01:27 PM
GUEST,Old Guy 23 Oct 05 - 12:28 PM
Amos 23 Oct 05 - 11:52 AM
Amos 23 Oct 05 - 11:38 AM
Stilly River Sage 23 Oct 05 - 10:41 AM
Amos 23 Oct 05 - 10:05 AM
GUEST,Xenu 23 Oct 05 - 08:52 AM
GUEST,Old Guy 23 Oct 05 - 01:36 AM
Stilly River Sage 22 Oct 05 - 11:36 PM
Bobert 22 Oct 05 - 08:24 PM
Bobert 21 Oct 05 - 10:07 PM
Amos 21 Oct 05 - 08:40 PM
Bobert 21 Oct 05 - 07:55 PM
GUEST,Old Guy 21 Oct 05 - 03:14 PM
Amos 20 Oct 05 - 02:02 AM
GUEST,Old Guy 19 Oct 05 - 11:17 PM
GUEST,Old Guy 19 Oct 05 - 03:26 AM
GUEST,Old Guy 18 Oct 05 - 12:48 AM
GUEST,Old Guy 17 Oct 05 - 11:00 PM
Bobert 17 Oct 05 - 10:29 PM
GUEST 17 Oct 05 - 10:07 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 28 Oct 05 - 01:22 PM

Enlighten me oh literate one.

Old Guy


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Amos
Date: 28 Oct 05 - 11:10 AM

You are one dumb redneck, Old Fart.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 28 Oct 05 - 12:52 AM

I see when I addressed no one in particular as shit for brains Amos was the first one to answer with more bullshit and no plan. Swallowed the bait all the way.

And who proposed the department of homeland security?
Have we forgotten this campaign ad from the DNC in 2004?
"John Kerry fought to establish the Department of Homeland Security. George Bush opposed it for almost a year after 9/11."

   Ari Fleischer (Oct 24, 2001): "The president has suggested to members of Congress that there does not need to be a Cabinet-level Office of Homeland Security because there is such overlap among the various agencies, because every agency of the government has security concerns."

Old Guy


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Oct 05 - 10:42 PM

Well, gol danged, Amos...

Here I'z tryin' to lead either Old Guy 'er GUEST A into a defense of how Bush has done such a fine job with the Department of Homeland Security and ehre you go messin' wid the bait???

Like, who care about Harriet Miers???

(Ahhh, Bobert, you should...)

Okay I do, but not becuase of her danged popsitions on abortion or affirmative action but her thoughts on the powers of corporations... Yeah, them scared the heck outta me... Glad she's gone but I fear anothe corporate shill will get the next appointment...

This ain't got one thing in the world to do with flag burnin', 'er abortions, 'er affirmative action, 'er gay amrriages... Not a danged thing... Them is jsut smoke=screen issues to keep folks away from the real fact that Boss Hog is still real steamed about stuff like Medicare and Social Security and average folks ever gettin' to, ahhhh, like friggin' retire??? So Boss Hog wants a good-ol-boy corportist on that Supreme Court who will let the corporation run rampant over the average workin' man or woman in Amerika...

Yeah, this ain't got one thing to do about no sissy cultural thing... It's about money and power... And the folks with the money have bought them the best governemnt that money can buy and now it's time fir the workin' class to bend over and take a big ol' "Deliverance" screwing from Boss Hog...

No vasciline, either...

So, if you ain't part of Boss Hog's world, just bend over...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Amos
Date: 27 Oct 05 - 09:57 PM

From todays NY Times, excerpted:

"..."They're not reaching out; they're in a bunker mentality," said one longtime Republican familiar with the thinking in the White House, who spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of offending the president. "The idea that they're going to blame the Senate process for her going down says to me there's no introspection going on."

Second-term presidents are notoriously insulated from second-guessing, and Mr. Bush has never been one to invite private criticism or confess public error. His high premium on staff loyalty may well have led him to misjudge how his nomination of Ms. Miers - by all accounts the ultimate loyalist - would play.

"In the end, I always thought the thing that would bring her down was that she was his lawyer," Mr. Smith, the historian, said. "That makes people uncomfortable. It's just too inside."

President Lyndon B. Johnson's nomination of his longtime confidant, Abe Fortas, to be chief justice collapsed in 1968 partly for the same reason.

Richard D. Friedman, an expert on Supreme Court history at the University of Michigan law school, said Ms. Miers's withdrawal reflected the reality that modern confirmations had become "so contentious that the president has an incentive to pick somebody whose ideology he believes is compatible with his, but about whom little is known," while the Senate "then feels duty-bound to find out what it can about the nominee's ideology."

He added: "The nominee and the administration put up a wall, but in this case, it crumbled," in part because of doubts in both parties about Ms. Miers's stature.

The conservative commentator Patrick J. Buchanan wrote in Human Events Online that, by withdrawing, Ms. Miers "may just have helped" Mr. Bush "save his presidency." On the same Web site, the right-wing columnist Ann Coulter allowed: "Bush has us back on the team, ready to cheer for him unreservedly."

But former Senator John B. Breaux, a Louisiana Democrat who is pressing for the nomination of his home-state candidate, Judge Edith Brown Clement of the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit, had a much different view of what Ms. Miers's withdrawal portends for Mr. Bush's power to influence his own party, much less the opposition, for the rest of his term.

"It means," Mr. Breaux said, "that the fear factor is gone."



Less fear is always good, isn't it? That's what fighting terror is all about.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Oct 05 - 09:40 PM

Well, well, well...

So it's Homeland Security that you GUEST A, wants to defend???

Ahhh, before we get into some of the particlars I'd just like to know if you are aware of the fact that Bush din't think much of creatin' a Department of Homeland Security... No, might of fact it took some purdy hard pushin' by Joe Lieberman and some fellow Dems to push Bush into a corner where he he didn't support the idea then it would make it look as if he didn't give a rats butt about fightin' terrorism...

Can we agree on that???

If so, I have no trouble going forward in discussin' hopw Bush has totaly messed a program that came not from him or his folks but a program (leadin' to various policies) advocated my the Democrats...

If we can't get beyond an accepte3nce of this part of the story then there's little chance that you will buy the rest of what I have to say but, hey, the Repub "Revisionists" haven't made it a priority to change this part of the story so I would assume that we can go forward with my "bill of particulars" against the way Bush and his cronies have manipulated a situation in history to harrass and snoop on innocent Americans in the nmae of "homeland security"...

I'll await yer response, GUEST A, on whether or not we can agree that Bush was not the guidin' light behind the legislation that brought us the DoHS....

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Amos
Date: 27 Oct 05 - 05:26 PM

From a discussion group:

http://www.cra.org/govaffairs/blog/archives/000428.html

GOVERNORS URGE PRESIDENT TO SUPPORT FUNDAMENTAL RESEARCH

The governors of 27 states have sent a letter to President Bush
urging him to "ensure that federal funding for university-based
research remains a top national priority" in FY 2006 and beyond. In
their letter, the 16 Democratic and 11 Republican governors make the
case that basic research has been the fuel for innovation in their
states -- as well as a creator of high-wage jobs and an enabler of
workforce productivity -- and they credit the universities and labs
performing the research with being "the training ground for our
country's next generation of highly-skilled workers." They also cite
the changing competitive environment that challenges current U.S.
dominance in technology innovation:

    "Through economic globalization, competition in research and
development has risen dramatically in the last few years. Asian and
European countries have committed new resources to scientific and
engineering research programs at nearly unprecedented rates. While
the U.S. currently remains a global leader in science and technology,
we must continue to be at the forefront of discovery and development.
Only by investing in the research of today can we take full advantage
of the innovations of tomorrow. Despite a period of scarce resources,
basic science and engineering research is a vital national investment."

This is an important message for the President to hear, especially as
the Administration is working now to put together his FY 2007 budget
in time for its February release.

Unfortunately, the U.S. basic research enterprise is going to need
all the help it can get. As we've noted before, it appears that
pressures will be high on Congress to cut mandatory and discretionary
spending (including federal science agencies) to offset the spiraling
costs for hurricane relief and a possible tax cut. Yesterday, House
Majority Leader Roy Blunt noted that Congress will be focusing on
three pieces of budget legislation before they wrap up the current
session this fall: a package carving savings from mandatory programs,
an across-the-board cut in discretionary spending and a new hurricane
relief package. Any across-the-board cut is likely to once again fall
on agencies like the National Science Foundation, which suffered a
similar 2 percent cut last year.

So any effort by an influential group like the 27 governors who
signed this letter (and thanks to the Science Coalition for "working"
this letter), is useful in the attempt to reverse what is becoming a
very damaging trend of cutbacks in federal support for fundamental
research.

Here's the full letter:
http://www.cra.org/govaffairs/blog/archives/
Governors_Letter_BasicResearch.pdf (pdf, 1 mb).


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Amos
Date: 27 Oct 05 - 02:17 PM

Old Fart:

Your love of violence is kinda pathetic.

If you had bothered to participate in this community for any time, you would see many efforts to produce alternative plans.

Back when your clan of rock-brained war-mongers was insisting on launching mass slaughter, a lot of discussion about alternative approaches occured.

I've seen your ancient screed before. I kind of doubt it has much merit, given the known antipathy between Hussein and Al Queda before 9-11. Since then, of course, their people have become close allies, partly as a result of Bushwhackoff's diplomatic skills.

But this thread is not about the war. There ar eplenty of others you can go spill your bile into. If you have some substantive remarks to make about the Bush administration here, welcome.

For example, why do you think Meiers backed off yesterday? To protect Bush from embarassment? Or, as she said in her letter, to protect his right to keep his business secret from the masses?

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 27 Oct 05 - 09:10 AM

From Amos: "a war only marginally related to the Al Queda attack"
Was it related or not?

From a PBS Frontline interview    with Sabah Khodada:

"Can you explain what's on this map that you drew?

The surrounding area around this camp is an area for fitness training. This is a Boeing 707, where they trained how to hijack it. And also they were trained how to resist or stop hijacking operation.

Next to it, there's a double-decker bus in which they could do the same thing -- training, hijacking. And this is next to it, there is a village, built houses like a model of a village. They will train how to plant TNT and explosives. And very next to it, there's a single house, where they're trained how to enter it, or sabotage it or explode it.

The railway track is where the train is. That's where they would have the same training for hijacking of a train. I would like to also tell you that this is a village where farmers would live. Those farmers, by the way, are employees by the Iraqi intelligence -- all of them. They look like normal families, but they are not as you think. They are employees of the Iraqi intelligence to put cover and protection to the base."

707? Train? Double decker bus? This is from 2001 before Madrid and London. Does it sound a little erie to you?

Well shit for brains, what kind of a long range plan can you come up with for combating terrorisim in the world?

You can't because your mental capacity is limited to picking apart anybody with a plan who tries to carry it out.

I see nothing here that does anybody any good. You antiwar zeroheads come here for support for your fucked up, crybaby complaints. Grow up.


Old Guy


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: GUEST,A
Date: 27 Oct 05 - 08:49 AM

Bobert; reread my post, could you not perceive that I asked for both?

Amos; Your 25 Oct 05 03:34 post and I quote: "I shoulda been a gossip columnist." Amos, you are basically that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Oct 05 - 07:49 PM

Which one, GUESTa... "Homeland" 'er "No Child"???

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: GUEST,A
Date: 26 Oct 05 - 01:18 PM

Mr. Bobert, what about Homeland Defense? What is your point, if any, or is this just another one of your hollow threats that, if countered, will then be ignored by you?

Give me one 'thing', or whatever your implication is, concerning one child left behind.

I an a newbie here but it takes very little time to uncover the harsh bluffers from those who attempt to make a point.
While I seem to disagree with Amos amd may doubt a lot of his source material, he would be a force to reckon with in a debate, unlike some of you who seem to employ the tactics of a bully.

But, Amos, quoting Wilkerson is a bit of a stretch. Who, after all, is responsible for formulating foreign policy?


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Oct 05 - 08:45 PM

Okay, Old Guy, don't like Amos's cut an' pastes, just waitin' fir butt to pick that one Bush policy that makes you feel all warm an' fuzzy...

Don't matter which one it is 'cause this ol' hillbilly ain't gonna cut and paste ya, I'm just gonna shread yer arguements...

Bring it on, Big Guy, ol' BObert got somethin' fir ya...

And you get to pick the weapons...

No Child Left Behind???

Oh, yeah, I hope you pick that one...

Homeland Defense???

Oh yeah, pcik that one???

Don't matter to me...

You pick the one policy that you feel "YOUR" president has done a good job on...

Still waitin'...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Amos
Date: 25 Oct 05 - 08:32 PM

From Salon :

"Now They Tell Us

Why didn't Bush's foreign-policy critics speak out a year ago?
By Fred Kaplan
Posted Monday, Oct. 24, 2005, at 3:10 PM PT


Scowcroft criticizes George Jr.

Two erstwhile loyalists have come out roaring against President George W. Bush this past week, attacking not just his conduct of the war in Iraq but the foundations of his foreign policy generally.

The critics are retired Lt. Gen. Brent Scowcroft, a longtime friend and former national security adviser of Bush's father, who attacks his targets in a profile by Jeffrey Goldberg in the latest issue of The New Yorker, and retired Col. Lawrence Wilkerson, another admirer of Bush Sr. and Colin Powell's former chief of staff, who launched his artillery in an Oct. 19 speech at the New America Foundation.

Scowcroft, besides voicing dismay over the invasion of Baghdad, slashes the administration—especially his old friend Dick Cheney and his own former underling Condoleezza Rice—for their "evangelical" notion that they can export democracy at the point of a gun.


Wilkerson goes further, charging Cheney and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld with running foreign policy like a "cabal"—worse still, an "incompetent" cabal that has "courted disaster in Iraq, in North Korea, in Iran." He says they've gotten away with it because the president is "not versed in international relations and not much interested in them either."

There's nothing novel about the substance of these critiques; many analysts have made similar points for quite a while. The startling thing here is the critics—consummate insiders, veteran military officers, who as a rule don't reveal secrets or attack presidents, especially those named Bush. (snip...)"


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Amos
Date: 25 Oct 05 - 08:22 PM

From Newsview (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1151AP_Cheneys_Role.html)

...
"The New York Times, quoting unidentified lawyers involved in the case, said Libby's notes differed from his grand jury testimony. Libby reportedly told grand jurors he learned Plame's name from reporters.

There is nothing in the public record to suggest that Cheney, like perhaps Libby and deputy White House chief of staff Karl Rove, pointed reporters toward the CIA official in conversations about her husband, diplomat Joe Wilson.

But the investigation has lifted the veil on the White House's brass-knuckle political culture - and Cheney's role in it.

The latest disclosure also raises fresh questions about the vice president's credibility, long-ago frayed by inaccurate or questionable statements on Iraq.

Cheney told NBC on Sept. 14, 2003, that he didn't know who sent Wilson on a mission to Niger to explore claims that Iraq was seeking nuclear material. "He never submitted a report that I ever saw when he came back," Cheney said at the time. "I don't know Mr. Wilson. I probably shouldn't judge him. I have no idea who hired him."

He made those remarks months after the reported conversations with Tenet and Libby, where he would have learned about Wilson and his wife.

White House spokesman Scott McClellan, asked whether Bush still had confidence in Cheney, replied, "The president appreciates all the things that he's doing."

And he's doing a lot. A former congressman, Cheney is the president's point man on Capitol Hill. A former oil man, he spearheaded the White House energy task force and fought to keep its deliberations secret. A former defense secretary, Cheney is one of Bush's most trusted foreign policy advisers and a staunch defender of the war in Iraq.

It was Cheney who all but made a direct link between Saddam Hussein and the Sept. 11 attacks, then denied that he had ever done so.

He also insisted there was a link between al-Qaida and Iraq.

Cheney said in May that the Iraqi insurgency was in its "last throes," an assertion rejected by military leaders.

White House officials are circling the wagons around Cheney, defending the vice president while privately pointing to news accounts that take issue with Libby's grand jury testimony. Many also are still holding out hope that Rove, the president's top adviser, will not be indicted in the case.

Two senior Republican officials close to the White House, speaking on condition of anonymity to avoid retribution, said administration officials are worried that Cheney's role in the case has created a public relations problem by bringing the CIA leak a step closer to the Oval Office.

There is less concern about the vice president's legal vulnerability, the officials said, but any uncertainty adds to an already tense situation at the White House.

This all started in 2003 after the war began. The fighting wasn't going well, despite Bush's "mission accomplished" speech, and the president was reeling from criticism over mentioning an Iraq-nuclear connection in his State of the Union address.

Wilson was a threat, and Bush's advisers had reason to doubt his credibility.

So they sprang into action.

Fitzgerald will soon decide whether to file charges or write the episode off to what Hess calls typical Washington "malicious gossip."

"Cheney had a conversation with his chief of staff. They talked about something that was bothering them. ... He asked the director of the CIA what gives, and they had a conversation. All of this seems to be the way you'd expect people to do business. Yada, yada, yada - and so we go," Hess said.

In purely political terms, the question is whether the public will be as blase about the White House response to Wilson once the whole story is out.

Or whether they will lose faith in the president and his Mr. Fix-It....


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Amos
Date: 25 Oct 05 - 08:18 PM

10 Mind-Numbingly Stupid Quotes by Tom DeLay

1) "So many minority youths had volunteered that there was literally no room
for patriotic folks like myself." --Tom DeLay, explaining at the 1988 GOP
convention why he and vice presidential nominee Dan Quayle did not serve in
the Vietnam War

2) "Now tell me the truth, boys, is this kind of fun?" --Tom Delay,to three
young hurricane evacuees from New Orleans at the Astrodome inHouston, Sept.
9, 2005

3) "I AM the federal government." --Tom DeLay, to the owner of Ruth's Chris
Steak House, on why he should have been allowed to smoke a cigar, despite
federal government regulations banning smoking, May 14,2003

4) "We're no longer a superpower. We're a super-duper power." --TomDeLay,
explaining why America must topple Saddam Hussein in 2002interview with Fox
News

5) "Nothing is more important in the face of a war than cutting taxes."
--Tom DeLay, March 12, 2003

6) "Guns have little or nothing to do with juvenile violence. The causes of
youth violence are working parents who put their kids into daycare, the
teaching of evolution in the schools, and working mothers who take birth
control pills." -- Tom DeLay, on causes of the Columbine High Schoolmassacre,
1999

7) "A woman can take care of the family. It takes a man to provide
structure. To provide stability. Not that a woman can't provide stability,
I'm not saying that. It does take a father, though." --TomDeLay, in a
radio interview, Feb. 10, 2004

8) "I don't believe there is a separation of church and state. I think the
Constitution is very clear. The only separation is that there will not be a
government church."   --Tom DeLay

9) "Emotional appeals about working families trying to get by on $4.25 an
hour [the minimum wage in 1996] are hard to resist. Fortunately,such
families do not exist." --Tom DeLay, during a debate in Congress on
increasing the minimum wage, April 23, 1996

10) "I am not a federal employee. I am a constitutional officer. My job is
the Constitution of the United States, I am not a government employee. I am
in the Constitution." -- Tom DeLay, in a CNN interview,Dec. 19, 1995


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Amos
Date: 25 Oct 05 - 03:34 PM

In one of the many scandals now caving in around the lie-weary Bush warriors the following development from the Post and the Times is of interest because it indicates things run deeper than previosuly expected:

"
By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Tuesday, October 25, 2005; 1:39 PM

The New York Times this morning reports that I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby apparently first learned that Joseph Wilson's wife was a CIA agent from none other than his boss -- Vice President Cheney.

This new revelation suggests that special prosecutor Patrick J. Fitzgerald's investigation into the leak of Valerie Plame's identity has reached even closer to the vice president than was previously known.


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Fitzgerald is expected to wrap up this week, possibly tomorrow. Libby and Bush senior adviser Karl Rove are widely seen as most likely to be indicted.

Just how the White House first learned of Plame's identity has been one of the elusive mysteries of this case.

Rove is said to have initially told the grand jury he first heard about Plame from some reporter, but he couldn't remember who. Then he said he heard it from Libby.

Libby is said to have initially told the grand jury he first heard about Plame from reporters -- but they denied it. And now, says the Times, Libby's own notes show he heard it from Cheney.

But today's news raises even more questions than it answers, among them:

* Who told Cheney, and under what circumstances?

* Did Cheney acknowledge his own role when he spoke to prosecutors last summer? If not, could he be indicted himself?

* Did Cheney encourage Libby not to disclose their conversation?

* Did President Bush know about Cheney's role?

* Who leaked this latest development -- and what was their motivation?

* Does this mean the White House will stop blaming reporters for everything? (That one was rhetorical: The answer is no.)

The Story



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


David Johnston, Richard W. Stevenson and Douglas Jehl write in the New York Times: "I. Lewis Libby Jr., Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff, first learned about the C.I.A. officer at the heart of the leak investigation in a conversation with Mr. Cheney weeks before her identity became public in 2003, lawyers involved in the case said Monday.

"Notes of the previously undisclosed conversation between Mr. Libby and Mr. Cheney on June 12, 2003, appear to differ from Mr. Libby's testimony to a federal grand jury that he initially learned about the C.I.A. officer, Valerie Wilson, from journalists, the lawyers said.

"The notes, taken by Mr. Libby during the conversation, for the first time place Mr. Cheney in the middle of an effort by the White House to learn about Ms. Wilson's husband, Joseph C. Wilson IV, who was questioning the administration's handling of intelligence about Iraq's nuclear program to justify the war. . . .

"It would not be illegal for either Mr. Cheney or Mr. Libby, both of whom are presumably cleared to know the government's deepest secrets, to discuss a C.I.A. officer or her link to a critic of the administration. But any effort by Mr. Libby to steer investigators away from his conversation with Mr. Cheney could be considered by Patrick J. Fitzgerald, the special counsel in the case, to be an illegal effort to impede the inquiry."

The Times reporters wonder "why Mr. Libby would have suggested to the grand jury that he might have learned about Ms. Wilson from journalists if he was aware that Mr. Fitzgerald had obtained the notes of the conversation with Mr. Cheney or might do so." Good question.

The conversation between Libby and Cheney apparently took place on the day The Washington Post published a front-page story by Walter Pincus about an unnamed diplomat, later publicly identified as Wilson, and his mission to Niger.

"A key component of President Bush's claim in his State of the Union address last January that Iraq had an active nuclear weapons program -- its alleged attempt to buy uranium in Niger -- was disputed by a CIA-directed mission to the central African nation in early 2002, according to senior administration officials and a former government official," Pincus wrote.

David Shuster reports for MSNBC this morning: "The story in the New York Times has huge implications, because it places Vice President Cheney for the first time in the heart of this investigation." . . .



Look for a breaking scandal on the Judith Miller front to appear soon, linking Scooter and Judith romantically. The perfect explanation! I shoulda been a gossip columnist!! :D

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Amos
Date: 25 Oct 05 - 01:11 PM

I think it is also fair and reasonable to remember the actual enemy, who has taken advantage of Bush's policy to make a staging area out of Iraq, a country they were once scarce in. This is what the organization that bombed the Twin Towers with stolen airplanes full of (relatively) innocent passengers is up to lately:

"Al Qaida claims hotel bombings


Al Qaida in Iraq has claimed responsibility for the suicide bombings of Baghdad hotels that killed 17 people.

The claim, made in an internet statement posted on a website that carries extremist material, said the attack targeted the "dirty harbour of intelligence agents and private American, British and Australian security companies."


"The lions of monotheism hit the heart of the security cordon," said the statement, which could not be immediately verified.

Tuesday's bombings targeted central Baghdad's Palestine and Sheraton hotels, which house Western journalists and contractors.

The statement said the group carried out the operation despite high-profile security measures including concrete barriers, barbed, checkpoints and surveillance cameras.

Al Qaida in Iraq said militants from its Brigade of al-Baraa bin Malek carried out the attacks.

The statement said the militants fired missiles at security forces before the suicide bombers - including one driving a cement truck through a gap blasted in a surrounding wall - detonated the explosives."

These are not freedom fighters.

They, like our own right wing fanatic Christians, are extremists using religion as a justification for anti-social psychotic acts, an insane desire to either control or destroy others, anti-human and anti-productive and grimly destructive. Individual by individual they may be less so; but when you take on the colors of a band of pirates or a pack of wolves, it is not persuasive to argue that you are basically a puppy and a family man; it is too disonant to bear much credence. Th eindividual is the responsible thrust-bearing for the acts of the group in which he participates.

I have been variously labeled as a pinko peacenik of various kinds, both in this thread and elsewhere. So I bring this issue up to point out that given the correctly identified enemy, and no other means to bring about a more amenable frame of mind on his part, I am persuaded that force may sometimes be unavoidable. But human decency requires that the effort to avoid it be made, and that the enemy be identified correctly, and that the standards of human compassion be maintained even in violence insofar as humanly possible.

Otherwise, there is no just battle; it is then all a bestial, godforsaken and rotting stew to which the vultures naturally gravitate.

Thus, W.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Amos
Date: 25 Oct 05 - 11:12 AM

I am always open to facts, sir.

When it comes to interpretation, I reserve my judgement.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: GUEST,a
Date: 25 Oct 05 - 10:47 AM

Point well taken, Amos. This is my first trip through this thread and I notice some of the sources are somewhat dubious.

Factual or interesting? Perhaps ten percent of the preceeding are worth discussing and that is not to say the ten percent are factual.
I guess it comes down to what one wants to hear, be it truthful or not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Oct 05 - 10:47 AM

I have been writing and illustrating the New Bush Times for 6 years.
It is a kind of Daily Show satire of fake news.
ex. Headlines: ( Hussein plans Asteriod Attack )

Back then I was banned from dozens of websites and got plenty of hate mail, but with approval ratings what they are today people are at least laughing again, in between mourning for the dead and wounded.

What makes me most indignant are the talking head apologists who now say "NO ONE COULD HAVE IMAGINED five years ago that:
AlQada would have grown by 80%, bin Laden would still be loose, Worldwide hatred and vengence against the US is at an all time high, the deficit is at an all time high, that we are bogged down in a war with no more strategy than driving around until shot at - punctuated by several genocidal ethnic cleansings of cities like Falluja...etc.
.......
Let me tell you that I knew this 5 years ago, and I'm damn sure most of you knew it as well.

The devil is in the details and that will be the Achilles heel for the worst of the liars/killers (aka neocons - The Realist School of National Policy).

The bad guys are always better organized.
They need to be if only to evade prosecution.
They may never face a war crime tribunal.
They will not fall based on the big issues but will be slowly devoured, as if by ants taking tiny bites of the little lies until only the clean white bones remain.

We will be heard after the fact although we have been vocal all along.


This is an illustation of perhaps our worst and longest lasting (semi secret) war crime in Iraq:
http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/metalofdishonor3.jpg


Thank you again, and now back to our regularly scheduled complaints ;)


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Amos
Date: 25 Oct 05 - 09:51 AM

Well, stranger, I never said I didn't have a point of view. I have told the detractors and will now repeat it to you that if you have any kind of public view about Bushie that you wish to posthere, please feel free. That's what the thread is for.

Of ocurse, the more intelligent, factual, or at least interesting the material, the better your chance of getting an answer...


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: GUEST,a
Date: 25 Oct 05 - 09:28 AM

"..A CLEARING HOUSE OF BUSH RELATED ITEMS....." Hand picked, I notice.
Bobert, ever contemplate the word non-biased?

I used to be a Liberal until I saw the error of my ways.
Doesn't say anything either.


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 08:57 PM

"What I am pointing out is that anyone who fell for that line of bullshit does not have the mental capacity to tell bullshit from the truth."

Well, Silly Old Fart, I'm afraid I can't quite agree with that. We all do things from time to time that we look back on and say, "Well. that wasn't too bright!" That doesn't mean that we're not too bright, it means that what we did was not too bright. What is bright is that we rcongnize that fact and move on from there. You get the distinction?

Let me put it this way:   I used to be a conservative. But I saw the error of my ways.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 08:13 PM

Please tell us Old Guy...how many terrorist attacks has GWB prevented? (include a reference please)


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 07:50 PM

Still waitin', Old Guy, on which Bush policy you'd like to defend...


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 09:03 PM

Well, Old Guy, one thing is true and that is the world's bigest fool is unknown until he opens his mouth and so Iz goina' present you with the:

WORLD'S BIGEST FOOL AWARD!!!

And a big ol' congrates... Well done and well earned...

But besides the accolades, hey, seein' as you ain't been 'round here that long, there have been folks who you would call allies here in Mudville who would post right winged Bushite stuff on threads like "D Modal Tuning" or "Lyrics needed: "Puff the Magic Dragon"...

Here waht Amos has done is create kinda a clearing house thread of Bush related stuff... He ain't lightin' off stink bombs in every imaginable thread...

This should make you happy because among a half a dozen of us we could wreck this joint with anti-Bush posts on every danged thread...

But that prolly jus' shot right over yer head...

No matter, rather than address the specific criticisms of yer hero, George W, you attack the messengers... Ahhhhh, you ever want to take one of Bush's policies and defend it without the usual, if you don't like America, leave it crap....

Your arguments are so tired and juvinile that sometimes when I read yer posts it's like readin' not an Old Guy, but a 13 year old who doesn't even know what the word "policies" means...

Yeah, why don't you ever want to talk about specific policies???

Afterall, when everything is said and done, at the end of the day, success or failure comes down to policy decisions, not name callin', not a bunch of juvinilistic crap, but policies...

Just which of Bush's policies are you ready to defend???

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 06:29 PM

Old Fart:

You are so busy twisting things you make a fool of yourself.

I never said Saddam and Al Queda were connected, and I think the same thing now as I thought back then, whatever it was I said. They were separate and not even interested in each other. Until Georgie Porgie decided to make Iraq into a common sandbox for all Muslims anywhere to come and shoot at Americans in.

What should be done now is very different from what should have been done in late September 2001.

I take it from your language that you are pro-war -- not any particular war, but in favor of war in general.

That is, you espouse the belief that it is preferable to engage in slaughter of your species from time to time in order to resolve issues.

I wish you great happiness, Old Guy, and a little sleep at night; I feel sorry for your soul and your mind, though.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 03:09 PM

Just like I said. Nothing about what to do just criticisim of what was done. You don't have a windmill to tilt at or the balls to tilt at anything.

Fact is you anti-war ballon heads don't know what should be done. If you had your own country to run it would last a week before it collapsed from indecision. Move on up to Canada, run them into the dirt and leave the US for normal people to enjoy.

Oh and previously you said there was no connection between Al Qeda and Saddam, The evil GB administration thought it up just to grab the oil in Iraq. Were you wrong then or wrong now?

Old Guy


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 01:27 PM

If GW had done nothing about the situation that unfolded in September he would have been a bigger ass than he is now. Wherever did you get the idea that anyone here thought he should have? Or are you just tilting at artificial windmills? Is your mind so hampered by bigotry that you can envision no course of action between "nothing" and starting a war only marginally related to the Al Queda attack?

Speaking of Al Queda, do you think Saddam Hussein is a reasonable substitute? That toppling the regime in Iraq is equivalent to striking a blow against fanatic Al Qeda style terrorism? Did you think the terrorist attacks were coming from Iraq for some reason?

Sanity includes, among other things, finding the right source for a problem. Finding the wrong source, and striking out against it, is just mindless complex reaction which makes the situation worse.

Thus, W.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 12:28 PM

The Xenu thing was only fed to the people who reached level 3 "OTIII" by paying mucho dinero to the "church of Scientology"

What I am pointing out is that anyone who fell for that line of bullshit does not have the mental capacity to tell bullshit from the truth.

This person has no credibility. I would sooner believe Saddam saying he is innocent.


I never paid any attention until I saw the rantings of one Amos Jessup. I wondered if he was Muslim extremist but I searched the internet and found out otherwise.

Just like a house of cards, all these anti-war idjits hang out here and prop each other up. They choose they facts they want to hear and blot out the rest from their memory such as the terrorist training camps in Iraq. Eg. Salman Pak.

You never hear anything out of these antiwar koolaid drinkers about a plan to combat terrorisim, just criticisim of anybody that does have a plan. Nothing positive or creative, just harping and bitching, crying and sucking snot.

If GB had done nothing about Iraq or Afghanistan, where would we be right now? Shit like x number of soldiers and civilians would not have died don't cut it. How may terrorist attacks would we have sustained?

Old Guy


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 11:52 AM

From some blogs coordinated by a website called the TPM Cafe, some reflections on our foreign policy...if that is what it is:

"Why We're in Iraq
By Ivo Daalder | bio
From: America Abroad
Secretary Rice traveled to Capitol Hill today to testify, for the first time ever, on the biggest foreign policy issue confronting our nation: Iraq. In her opening statement, Rice said this about our objectives:

We know our objectives. We and the Iraqi Government will succeed if together we can:
-- Break the back of the insurgency so that Iraqis can finish it off without large-scale military help from the United States.
-- Keep Iraq from becoming a safe haven from which Islamic extremists can terrorize the region or the world.
-- Demonstrate positive potential for democratic change and free expression in the Arab and Muslim worlds, even under the most difficult conditions.
-- And turn the corner financially and economically, so there is a sense of hope and a visible path toward self-reliance.

Now, read that again, and tell me if this is serious.


Oct 19, 2005 -- 01:07:20 PM EST

Let's remember, there was no insurgency in Iraq before we invaded the country and then totally bungled the aftermath. And there was little chance of Iraq becoming a safe haven for terrorists before we invaded the country and then totally bungled the aftermath. In other words, our first two objectives in Iraq are to undo the disaster our own actions and inactions created!
As for the remaining objectives, demonstrating the "positive potential for democratic change and free expression" is a very long cry from establishing a viable democracy in the heart of the Arab world, which a couple of years ago was declared the official aim of our continued involvement in Iraq. And "turning the corner financially and economically," though difficult, doesn't strike me as setting the bar terribly high.

Which leaves me with this thought: the limited nature of these objectives suggests that the administration may finally be realizing the extraordinary disaster we're in and is trying, desperately, to find a way to declare victory so we can get out."




Anyone who HAS been in war knows that unless you are in desperate straits, you think your way out before you go in, but this little detail escaped not only The Amazing Rumsfeld and his bald-minded leader, but apparently those whose profession presumably qualified them to lead actual war machines in bloodshed.

The Big Question, of course, is whether there IS a "necessity" for war, and if so when and what it looks like?

It seems to me that claiming such a necessity, when one does not exist, is an immorality of the highest order. Denying such a necessity when it DOES exist is pusillanimous, to be sure; but the inverse is the rampant unleashing of deep psychosis. It requires a self-bound egotism of extraordinary force, so anchored to its fear-driven center as to rule out any objectivity, compassion, or desire to make things better. In fact it stems from an immediate ravening hunger to make things worse.

Thus, W.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 11:38 AM

The SF Chronicle is critical of the right-wing pundits who abandoning Bush in his time of sinking polls:

Miers has yet to face a Senate hearing. On "Face the Nation" last Sunday, Bob Schieffer of CBS, an alumnus of the U.S. Air Force and the Fort Worth police beat, asked: "Most of the opposition seems to be coming from the Republican pundits, not really from Republican senators. Do you think senators are just sitting back and letting the pundits do the dirty work for them?"

From the low expectations set by her critics, senators might expect to hear a witness with all the qualities of Carol Channing, Gracie Allen and Betty Boop.

Senators can ask her the same questions they asked Roberts. Miers can give the same non-answers given by Roberts and by Clinton nominees Stephen Breyer and Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

They should ask one important question about cronyism. Another Texas president, Lyndon Johnson, appointed his pal Abe Fortas to the court in 1965 but did not let go of Fortas as a friend and adviser on the war in Vietnam. No justice should remain a presidential crony.

Senators might usefully ask the nominee whether she and the president agreed with the observation of Henry Adams: "A friend in power is a friend lost."

Miers may or may not be confirmed, but President Bush, abandoned by so many intellectuals he had eagerly courted, can ponder the wisdom of a predecessor. "If you want a friend in Washington," Harry Truman said, "get a dog."



Full article here.

An interesting almost pro-Bush survey of the Miers cronyism scandal.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 10:41 AM

This thread was started by Amos in order to air important stories about a morally bankrupt and probably indictable world leader who needs the bum's rush out of office, along with his friends and most of his party. Regime Change needs to happen at home, not overseas. Amos knows that and is confining much of his eye-rolling and criticism to the thread he established so like-minded individuals can share in the information, or so those who want to know what it's all about can stop by to read.

What about that don't you get, Old Fart? The fact that this is a public forum and you've barged in making a stink and naughty noises just goes to your immaturity. There is always the risk that when one starts a topic on a given subject that there are those who would rather break up the party than settle down and really learn something or join the discussion in a serious manner.

You have inhabited Mudcat as a Guest for just over a year, and in that entire time you HAVE NOT POSTED A SINGLE REMARK TO A MUSIC THREAD. You're here exclusively to wallow "below the line" where you can vie for the attention of others by being a pain in the butt.

Amos, this kind of behavior happens often enough that we know that if the juvenile behavior is ignored the party in question goes away to see if he can stir up someone else.

Keep up the good work and add substance to the thread. I think it's about to the point where the oddsmakers are hesitant to bet that Bush will make it through a full second term (used loosely, since he was only elected once). Ignore the Old Guy and he'll go away and look for someone else's sandbox to poop in.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 10:05 AM

Thanks, Old Guy. You're kinda fulla shit your own self. Twisting stuff and changing it around.

What I said was, ad hominem attacks aren't the topic of this thread. If you had a bunch of public opinions in support of your furless leader...well, it ain't likely, but you could post them here. That's what the thread is for.

Mister Hubbard was a bit of a whacko, I don't deny, but he never caused thousands of violent and unnecessary deaths, destroyed homes and villages, or massive destruction. And he also built up some pretty interesting stuff. He could outsmart your candidate by about ten-to-one before waking up in the morning.

Your excerpt about Xenu is not, as you describe it, a core belief. It is as far from core belief as you can get -- but being as whacky as it is, it gets a lot of attention. You do seem well-qualified to comment on Hubbard and his works, so you could start that as a thread if you like. Sounds like you know a lot about 'em.

In any case, most anyone who knows me knows that I am brainwashed, but not by Scientology. I am stunod and devoid of all rational thought in the presence of Vibrant Pulchritude. Now, there' s something to get brainwashed by!! That's why I founded my own religion, the Temple of the Golden Globes. Come by sometime and take a free chest measurement.

Oh...you meant the other brain? Sorry...


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: GUEST,Xenu
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 08:52 AM

I Know the necessity of war:

"Xenu took over complete control with the help of renegades to defeat the good people and the Loyal Officers. Then, with the help of psychiatrists, he called in billions of people for income tax inspections, where they were instead given injections of alcohol and glycol mixed to paralyse them. Then they were put into space planes that looked exactly like DC8s (except they had rocket motors instead of jet engines).

These DC8 space planes then flew to planet Earth, where the paralysed people were stacked around the bases of volcanoes in their hundreds of billions. When they had finished, they lowered H-bombs into the volcanoes. Xemu then detonated all the H-bombs at the same time and everyone was killed."

Excerpt from the writings of Amos's former fearless leader, LRH which forms the core belief in the religion known as Scientology.

Xenu


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 01:36 AM

I thought that would get you crybabies going. Now keep it up and expend all your energy and thought on bullshit. Maybe go out and have a peace rally and bust up something.

You all cluster here because you prop each other up. "look there is a lot of peoples here who think like I does so I must not be so fucked up after all"

Amos thinks this is his private little forum so he can feel he has accomplished something. His memorial to himself. "don't post anything here about me or against my way of thinking"

Well he is just as full of shit now as he was when he was being brainwashed by the Scientologists.

Old Guy


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 11:36 PM

The Old Fart said: If you anti-war Jello Brains had your way we would be speaking Japanese or German right now, Poor as shit and suffering like the North Koreans because we would be under the thumb of a dictator that you anti-war pukes refused to fight.

You don't know how lucky you are to have people willing to fight for your freedom while you call them names.


I haven't been back to this thread for a long time, and I will tell you something. I was doing some silly research for MOAB last week and I did a spontaneous little search for quotes and was surprised to find all of the Scientology stuff about Amos. The difference is, I did some critical thinking while I was reading, and weighed this with the fact that I've been talking to Amos himself for a long time now here at Mudcat. I was able to evaluate what I was reading. The Old Fart doesn't seem to be able or want to do that. I count Amos a friend and am continually astonished by his deep grasp of many subjects. It didn't take long to conclude that the Scientology episode was in the past, and that, as I have always known, for Amos the present as it leads into the future is what is important. The view to the future looks pretty grim right now, with Bush's cadre making war and enriching their corporate friends as fast as they can before they get caught and stopped at the next election. The Old Fart just wants to try to stir up old stuff, out of context, and drag it forward to hamstring someone who has lucid understanding and articulate criticism of Bush and his cronies.

How pathetic. That the Old Fart would pull out the soldiers-fighting-wars-for-you-and-me dogerel when he's clearly decades out of touch with the world. No wonder we're facing global warming, with such gaseous windbags around.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 08:24 PM

And....Bite Me...

Bobert

(Just keepin' the thread goin' without havin' to work up no sweat...)


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 10:07 PM

Yeah, old guy, what Amos said about what I said...

Bite Me, Big Guy!!!

You worship an jerk! What does that make you???

Yer "jerk" is a major problem... He decides stuff as if he had a history of runnin' successfull companies... He don't... He ain't never run nuthin' that was successfull... His daddy done give him one successfull company after another and hem blew 'um all up!!!!

Yeah, you can go to grave worshippin' a perennial looser, Old Guy...

Says more about you than the looser you worship...l

Think about it....

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Amos
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 08:40 PM

Old Guy:

Ya know you really twist things around, sometimes. You think being opposed to unnecessary war is "brainwashed"? Well, I think causing wars unnecessarily is psychotic, and supporting them blindly is mindless sycophancy.

Thanks, as well, for trying yo hijack this thread, most of which contains remarks by people neither of us even know, by twisting into an ad hominem issue.

If you are really that intent on making stuff up out of whole cloth, why don't you start by dreaming up justfications for invading Syria? That seems to be what the machinery on the Hill is looking at next.

Obviously the spilling of blood, the destruction of families, the accidental blowing away of babies, the incineration of passersby like so many overcooked strawberry pop-tarts -- all that violence is just a piece with any old overheated rationalization that can serve to protect your brain from seeing past your nose.

Tell ya what, corpse-breath; start your own thread on a topic of your choice, as I did this one, and I promise to stay the hell out of it.

Until then I echo Bobert's initial sentiments.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 07:55 PM

Ahhhh, fir starters, "Bite Me!", O-Guy...

And fir a close second, fir an old guy you certainly got yerself a nice stash of mind-alterin' substances...

Ain't no one callin' nobody names who are out on the front lines, pal, but maybe you'd like to back up that bull with some real posts of folks sayin' they are blamin' the folks who are fightin' Bush's oil/powr/politics war!!! I don't think you will find one post where Amos, I or anyone else here in Mudville has ever said anything nasty about the troops... Find my just one, Big Guy... Just one...

And what does Amos's past have to do with George Bush's evil, immoral and corrupt administration??? Did Amos make up the lies that Bush used to sell this now very unpopular to the American people??? Did Amos rat out a CIA agent because her husband debunked one of the lies??? Did Amos award no-bid contracts to Brown & Root, a subsiderary of Halliburton, a corporation that Dick Cehney ran and still collects annual money from??? Did Amos hire the goons and lawyers in 2000 to go to Florida and steel an election??? Did Amos push thru a tax cut fir the upper 1% that we were told would be reinvested in the American economy only to be reinbvested in overseas companies??? Yeah, did Amos really do that??? Did Amos stand up before the Christain Right and tell these folks that he was all fir them while doing all the things that would make Jesus puke out his guts???

Yeah, Old Guy, the drugs must be fine in yer stash box...

You really oughtta share...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 03:14 PM

Amos:

You may have left the cult but it appears you have were permanently brainwashed.

I don't have a religion but I am not anti-religion either. I see the good and bad in people and I go with the good guys.

I have come to the conclusion that wars are usually caused by religion. Sometimes you have to defend yourself though.

If you anti-war Jello Brains had your way we would be speaking Japanese or German right now, Poor as shit and suffering like the North Koreans because we would be under the thumb of a dictator that you anti-war pukes refused to fight.

You don't know how lucky you are to have people willing to fight for your freedom while you call them names.

"Scientology joins the anti-war campaign. In Portland, Oregon a coalition of "mainstream religious organizations" has joined the protest against war with Iraq. And that coalition "also includes such fringe religious organizations as the Church of Scientology," reports The Portland Tribune."

Old Guy


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Amos
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 02:02 AM

Hey, ya ole fart:

If yer gonna bring religion into it, you should include the fact that I walked out on the Scientology gang many years back, and that I am on their permanent list of black sheep. Just so you include all the facts. No Scientologist in his "right" mind would be caught dead talking to me; reason being, I practice too much freedom of speech for comfort, kind of like with you. And, like you, they have done what they could to shut me up. But, like you, it didn't amount to much anyway. Because, like you, they are motivated by spite and bitterness.

And no, freedom of speech is not a double edged sword. But if frittering away one;s youth in a fringe outfit is the worst crime you can find on my back-line, I still feel a few feet closer o heaven than your double-tonguing fry-brain meathead of a Pruzident.

By the way, Old Guy, what;s your religion? You still worshiping Jack Daniels, old automobiles, or pinning your hopes on imaginary playmates? Mebbe you could talk to God about his conversations with George -- seems to me they're a little behind the times. Like, B.C.E. out of date.

Mebbe Small-Minded George never heard about the New Testament, though. A lot of good Christians seem to forget that part handily.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 11:17 PM

http://www.clambake.org/archive/books/bfm/bfm16.htm

(Amos) Jessup had gone to Saint Hill in 1966, while he was studying in Oxford, to try and get his young brother out of Scientology and instead had become converted himself. 'I was soon convinced', he said, 'that instead of being some dangerous cult it was an important advance in philosophy.

Freedom of speach is a double edged sword ain't it?

Old Guy


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 03:26 AM

http://www.clambake.org/archive/books/bfm/bfm17.htm

"Amos Jessup was among the first to step forward. 'He didn't tell us ahead of time what we were going to do, but it didn't matter to me, I'd have followed him through the gates of Hell if I had to. I was glad to do anything for him because I felt that what he had done to help others was so great an accomplishment he deserved whatever help I could offer. People felt he was a miracle worker, someone who had demonstrated a far higher level of competence than anything we could aspire to. It was as exciting and stimulating as hell to be with him. You had to be on your toes, put out your maximum effort, but it was always very refreshing and therapeutic."


Old Guy Jus reportin' the facs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 12:48 AM

http://warrior.xenu.ca/1996-0920b.html

"SOME HAVE SAID that BLACK PR, i.e., covert destruction techniques, outright fabrication of lies, destroying the repute of individuals and groups, spreading lies by hidden sources, distortion of truth, covert slandering of "enemies", degrading, villifying and discrediting opponents is an acceptable activity for a church.

The "Church" of $cientology IS EXPERT on BLACK PROPAGANDA METHODS; their leader wrote lots of policies about the subject."

Amos is obviously still very much a Scientologist because he uses these tactics.

Old Guy


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 11:00 PM

'Splain this on me Bush Meister:

'A sort of "Lord of the Flies syndrome" began working with the messengers,' said Rebecca Goldstein, who had been recruited into Scientology by her brother, Amos Jessup. 'They were so drunk with their own power that they became extremely vengeful, nasty and dishonest. They were a very exclusive, dangerous little group.'

http://www.byington.org/Carl/bfm/bfm19.htm


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 10:29 PM

ol' Guy,

Give the heck up... Word on then street is that Bush is gettin' ready to resign and take over a company that his daddy just bought, the Lone Star Prtezel Company", with pretzels being sold in over 10,000 outlets in Texas...

Yeah, seems that the lies and scandals have takin' a toll on the boy and likie the Texas Rangers (which daddy bought for him) and Harkin Energy (which daddy bought for him), and America (which daddy bought for him)... the boy just ain;t up to the big jobs....

Maybe runnin' a pretzel company will work fir him???

God knows... The boy knows his pretzels...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 10:07 PM

I got my information here:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=amos+jessup+scientology&btnG=Google+Search
And here:

http://www.alltheweb.com/search?cat=web&cs=iso88591&q=amos+jessup+scientology&rys=0&itag=crv&_sb_lang=pref

To my knowledge you have never deounced Sicentology so You must still belive in that Voodoo bullshit.

Old Guy


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