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Lyr Req: Sally in the Garden

GUEST,Oldtimemusic1 16 Sep 03 - 09:20 PM
Sorcha 16 Sep 03 - 11:18 PM
Charley Noble 17 Sep 03 - 09:33 AM
Sorcha 17 Sep 03 - 12:49 PM
Billy Weeks 23 Sep 03 - 12:20 PM
GUEST,Imam Ennui Al Shazbatt 30 May 13 - 06:28 PM
GUEST 05 Jun 14 - 09:23 AM
GUEST,alastair 09 Sep 17 - 01:45 PM
Mrrzy 10 Sep 17 - 09:51 AM
leeneia 10 Sep 17 - 09:17 PM
leeneia 10 Sep 17 - 09:18 PM
Stewart 11 Sep 17 - 12:29 PM
Lighter 11 Sep 17 - 01:10 PM
leeneia 12 Sep 17 - 01:46 PM
Mrrzy 13 Sep 17 - 11:43 PM
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Subject: Lyr Req: Sally in the Garden
From: GUEST,Oldtimemusic1
Date: 16 Sep 03 - 09:20 PM

Do any of you know the lyrics for "Sally in the Garden"? It's an
old fiddle (or banjo) tune usually played in C minor. I have the lyrics to "Sally Gardens", but I'm not sure if it's the same song.

Since it's played in a minor key, it is probably one of those "Willy
done her wrong, compromised her virtue, shot her, dragged her all around and around by her hair and tossed her in the river just above the old mill on the river which runs thru Knoxville town" songs. In other words a love song.... Thanks. Tom


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Subject: Lyr Add: SALLY IN THE GARDEN / HOG EYE MAN
From: Sorcha
Date: 16 Sep 03 - 11:18 PM

Sheet music here.
And then, this:
Hog Eye Man, The (Fiddle Version)

Traditional Old-Time Breakdown and Song- Widely known;

ARTIST: transcription by W.K. McNeil of Pope's Arkansas Mountaineers 'Hog-Eye' recorded in Memphis TN on February 6, 1928 and issued as Vi 21295.

CATEGORY: Fiddle and Instrumental Tunes; DATE: 1853 (Hog Eye-Jigg) by Meade; (1928 recording, Pope's Arkansas Mountaineers);

RECORDING INFO: Arkansas Sheiks. Whiskey Before Breakfast, Bay 204, LP (1975), cut# 14. New Lost City Ramblers. New Lost City Ramblers, Vol. 3, Folkways FA 2398, LP (1961), cut# 18 (Hogeye). Pope's Arkansas Mountaineers. Echoes of the Ozarks, Vol. 1, County 518, LP (1977), cut# 9. Southern Michigan String Band. Transplanted Old Timy Music, Pine Tree PTSLP 509, LP (197?), cut# 2. Hog-Eyed Man -Hollow Rock String Band. Traditional Dance Tunes, Kanawha 311, LP (197?), cut# 6. Strong, Luther. American Fiddle Tunes, Library of Congress AFS L62, LP (1971), cut# 19. Sumner, Marion. Best of Seedtime on the Cumberland, June Appal JA 0059C, Cas (198?), cut# 10.

OTHER NAMES: "Hog Eye an' a 'Tater;" Hog-Eyed Man; "Granny Will Your Dog Bite;" "Row the boat ashore with a Hog-eye Man;" "The Jackfish;" "Old Bob Ridley;" "Betty Martin," "Boatin' Up Sandy," "Brad Walters," "Chippy/Gippy Get Your Haircut," "Hog Eye and a Tater," "Hog Eye," "Jake Gilly," "Old Mother Gofour," "Old Granny Rattletrap," "Pretty Betty Martin," "Very Pretty Martin," "Sally in the Garden," "Tip Toe Fine," "Fire on the Mountain."

SOURCES: Bayard, Hill Country Tunes, #75 "Hog Eye an' a 'Tater"; Sharp, English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians, vol. 2, 360 (#250) "The Hog-eyed Man" (Clay County, Kentucky), 361 (#251) "The Jackfish" (Callaway, Virginia); Brown, The Frank C. Brown Collection of North Carolina Folklore vol. 5, 133 (#194-D) "Old Bob Ridley" (Watauga County, North Carolina); Sandburg, American Songbag, p. 380 "Hog-Eye" ("A lusty and lustful song developed by negroes of S.C."). A hillbilly recording is by Crockett Mountaineers on "Old-Time Medley." Additional discussion and citations may be found for "The Hog-Eyed Man" in American Fiddle Tunes (Library of Congress, AFS L62). American Songbag, Harcourt Brace Jovan..., Sof (1955), p380. Hog Eye and' a 'Tater -Yaugher, Irvin; Jr.. Hill Country Tunes: Instrumental Folk Music of Southwestern Penn, Amer. Folklore Society, fol (1944), 75. The Hog-Eye Man- American Songbag, Harcourt Brace Jovan..., Sof (1955), p410; New Lost City Ramblers. Old-Time String Band Songbook, Oak, Sof (1964/1976), p 67; Kaufman, Alan. Beginning Old-time Fiddle, Oak, sof (1977), p93. Kuntz, Fiddler's Companion, http://www.ceolas.org/tunes/fc;

NOTES: "Hog Eye Man" is a fiddle tune and sailor's shanty. I have indicated which type at the top with the title. The song has been categorized by Meade with Crockett's Kentucky Mountaineer's "Sally in the Garden." It is another of the Nordic tunes that float with "Fire on the Mountain," "Betty Martin," and "Granny Will Your Dog Bite."

"Hog-Eyed Man" is a well-known fiddle tune in the older repertory of the South. A nineteenth-century set in Winner's Collection of Music for the Violin, p. 75 "Hog Eye--Jigg" suggests that the song may have had some circulation on the popular stage. "Jigs" of this sort were a mid-nineteenth-century American genre in 2/4 time often associated with the minstrel stage or other popular entertainment. Modern song and fiddle versions suggest, however, that it is widespread in Southern tradition and may have gone from there to the popular stage, not the other way around. There may be an African-American connection to the song; it is certain that a sailor's shanty, with associated lyrics but a different tune, turns up in older sea shanty collections. The words to the song are typically bawdy.(Kuntz, Fiddler's Companion, http://www.ceolas.org/tunes/fc).

Pope's Arkansas Mountaineers recorded a 'chicken in the breadpan' variant under the title 'Hog-eye' which has some lyric similarities with the 'Hog-eye Man', best known as a sea shanty. It is included in NLCR 'Old-Time String Band Songbook' and has been released on CD in Dr Bill McNeil's box set 'Somewhere in Arkansas: Early Country Music Recordings From Arkansas 1928-1932' Center for Arkansas and Regional Studies, no catalogue number.


LYRICS:

Chicken in the breadpan kicking up dough
Sally will your dog bite? No, child, no
Sally's in the garden sifting sand
Sally's upstairs with the hog-eye man

Sally's in the garden, sifting, sifting
Sally's in the garden sifting sand
Sally's in the garden, sifting sifting
Sally's upstairs with the hog-eye man

Sally will your dog bite? No, child, no
Daddy cut his biter off a long time ago
Sally's in the garden sifting sand
Sally's upstairs with the hog-eye man

Sally's in the garden, sifting, sifting
Sally's in the garden sifting sand
Sally's in the garden, sifting sifting
Sally's upstairs with the hog-eye man

from: http://www.bluegrassmessengers.com/master/hogeye8.html
is in the DT but this one is different.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sally in the Garden
From: Charley Noble
Date: 17 Sep 03 - 09:33 AM

Sorcha is most certainly correct that there is no relationship between "Sally in the Garden" and "The Sally Gardens," horticulture aside.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sally in the Garden
From: Sorcha
Date: 17 Sep 03 - 12:49 PM

There is a reel called Sally Garden(s) which also has no relationship to the slow air, (Down by the) Salley Gardens with words by Yeats. Sally in the Garden obviously has no kinship with either of those.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sally in the Garden
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 12:20 PM

In the fifties I learned this rhyme (sorry, no tune) from an elderly London Irish lady:

Nelly in the garden sifting cinders
Cocked up her leg and pissed like a man;
The force of the steam broke fifteen winders
And the clappers of her arse went bang bang bang.

It may be a bit crude, but I wish I'd written it!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sally in the Garden
From: GUEST,Imam Ennui Al Shazbatt
Date: 30 May 13 - 06:28 PM

My mother (Born 1918: Died 2000) sang it thusly:

Mary in the garden, sifting cinders,
Cocked up her leg and farted like a man,
The force of the blast broke fifteen winders
And the clappers of her arse went bang bang bang.

I suspect this is a regional variation Deptford/New Cross SE London


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sally in the Garden
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jun 14 - 09:23 AM

As told to me by Tiny Harris, lockkeeper on the Wey Navigation

Mary in the garden, sifting cinders,
Lifted up her leg and farted like a man,
The force of the blast broke fifteen winders
And the clinkers on her arse went bang titty titty bang.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sally in the Garden
From: GUEST,alastair
Date: 09 Sep 17 - 01:45 PM

In Scotland we sing it as follows:

Oh, Mary in the garden, picin' up cinders,
She lifted up her leg, and she fairted like a man.

The wind from her bum broke sixteen winders,
and the jaws o her arse went bang, bang, bang!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sally in the Garden
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Sep 17 - 09:51 AM

From Kurt Vonnegut:

There is an old man, I think in jail, who sometimes claps three times. You don't get till the end of the book that what he is thinking is,

Sally in the garden, sifting cinders
Lifted up her leg and farted like a man
The bursting of her bloomers broke sixteen winders
The cheeks of her ass went (clap, clap, clap).

However the Does your dog bite, no, child, no, is in the chorus of a totally other song, no? Isn't that in the Devil Went Down to Georgia?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sally in the Garden
From: leeneia
Date: 10 Sep 17 - 09:17 PM

I already have three "Sally" tunes in my collection

Down by the Sally Gardens
Sally in the Garden Assisting Sam
Sally in Garden in Am.

I decided to look for another, and found a good tune called "Sally in the Garden - barn dance" at TheSession.org It is in BM

It is a new tune for me, and I recommend going to the Session and trying it out. Hold on, and I'll link to a video that's similar.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sally in the Garden
From: leeneia
Date: 10 Sep 17 - 09:18 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRg1s2Tjxg4


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sally in the Garden
From: Stewart
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 12:29 PM

By coincidence I was just learning this tune on my fiddle when this thread was revived. I had heard it played by Laurel Premo & Anna Gustavsson here.

Here on the "Mountain Music of Kentucky" album JD Cornett sings the song acapella, and Marion Sumner does a version at break-neck speed on the same album - I prefer it at a slower speed.

It was the tune of the week on the Banjo Hangout here
"I found it hard to put any history around it other than to say its an old American fiddle tune (Appalachian, Kentucky) and there appear to be associated songs and lyrics. In summary the protagonist Sally seems to be in the aforementioned garden sifting sand for goodness knows what reason, possibly helping out some chap Sam, and may be waiting for (or already upstairs with) the infamous and quite filthy hog-eye man, although this may be some quite different Sally - who knows? In the more robust versions she has a very nasty case of flatulence that literally shakes the foundations of buildings. Either way she doesn't seem to be the sort of girl to take home to your mother - but who am I to judge."

Cheers, S in Seattle


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sally in the Garden
From: Lighter
Date: 11 Sep 17 - 01:10 PM

I think it's supposed to be "Sifting Sand" rather than "Assisting Sam."

The tune of the "sifting cinders" stanza seems usually to be "Reuben, Reuben, I've Been Thinking."

Don't know anything about "Sally in the Garden in Am" (?).


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sally in the Garden
From: leeneia
Date: 12 Sep 17 - 01:46 PM

I've been checking the verions I have.

Sally in the Garden in Am is a fiddle tune I got from the Fiddler's Fakebook. It is a square dance type of tune, not intended to be sung.

Sally in the Garden Assisting Sam is from the same source. It is definitely a different tune.

Sally in the Garden from TheSession.org is in Dm, but on reflection it is not different enough from the version in the Fiddler's Fakebook to merit my printing and keeping it.
===========
The tiresome "lyrics" people have been posting sound like playground doggerel. I wonder if they got their start when some unlucky girl named Sally had the misfortune to be fat, homely, nearsighted, red-headed or just born to be bullied in some other sense.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sally in the Garden
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Sep 17 - 11:43 PM

Granny does your dog bite is referred to in the Devil went down to Georgia


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