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BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra

greg stephens 22 Sep 03 - 07:19 AM
Dave the Gnome 22 Sep 03 - 08:12 AM
Amos 22 Sep 03 - 09:36 AM
GUEST 22 Sep 03 - 10:13 AM
John MacKenzie 22 Sep 03 - 10:16 AM
The Fooles Troupe 22 Sep 03 - 10:30 AM
Jim Dixon 22 Sep 03 - 01:58 PM
Noreen 22 Sep 03 - 03:04 PM
Clinton Hammond 22 Sep 03 - 03:41 PM
Jim Dixon 22 Sep 03 - 03:52 PM
GUEST,Ed 22 Sep 03 - 04:10 PM
Dave the Gnome 22 Sep 03 - 07:15 PM
greg stephens 22 Sep 03 - 08:06 PM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Sep 03 - 08:12 PM
greg stephens 22 Sep 03 - 08:20 PM
The Walrus 22 Sep 03 - 08:52 PM
McGrath of Harlow 23 Sep 03 - 05:21 AM
Steve Parkes 23 Sep 03 - 05:29 AM
Dave the Gnome 23 Sep 03 - 06:30 AM
DMcG 23 Sep 03 - 06:51 AM
Stephen L. Rich 23 Sep 03 - 10:36 AM
Liz the Squeak 23 Sep 03 - 11:39 AM
The O'Meara 23 Sep 03 - 12:07 PM
Liz the Squeak 23 Sep 03 - 12:12 PM
Clinton Hammond 23 Sep 03 - 01:01 PM
greg stephens 23 Sep 03 - 01:12 PM
The Walrus 23 Sep 03 - 04:04 PM
McGrath of Harlow 23 Sep 03 - 04:20 PM
M.Ted 23 Sep 03 - 05:20 PM
Liz the Squeak 23 Sep 03 - 05:37 PM
McGrath of Harlow 23 Sep 03 - 06:05 PM
The Fooles Troupe 23 Sep 03 - 10:00 PM

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Subject: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off" in American
From: greg stephens
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 07:19 AM

Anybody seen the remake yet? Does the phrase appear,translated or not?


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 08:12 AM

and how can it have the same name when it has moved to Los Angeles???

:D


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: Amos
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 09:36 AM

What are you all on about?

A


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 10:13 AM

The remake of the film 'The Italian Job' I think


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 10:16 AM

The re-make of a classic British film called the Italian Job, from which the most oft quoted line is "I only asked you to blow the bloody doors off" This was said by Michael Caine in the film, in response to an over enthusiastic use of explosives when stealing the loot. I heard that the re make is a poor imitation of the original.
Giok


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 10:30 AM

As a previous student of Films, I will say that most really great film plots from anywhere else that get recycled into Hollywood usually get dumbed down, if they are attempted to be remade at all.

I don't count "dubbing" a movies a making a US version of it, although that can dent it severely too.

examples

Dumbed Down

The 7 Samuari ---> The Magnificient 7

ignored

All of the Jaques Tati films


But some independent directors have done a reasonable to sometimes very good job, although while you can see the same basic idea, the difference in culture changes the film severely.

can't remember the name of the movie now, but was made by the same director as 7 Samuari
------> A Fistful of Dollars

Robin


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 01:58 PM

IMDb lists a recent film called "The Italian Job." I couldn't find any film called "Blow the Bloody Doors Off." That's odd, because IMDb usually does list alternative titles. See for example "The Madness of King George" which it says was also known as "The Madness of George III." Rumor has it that they were afraid to call it "The Madness of George III" in America, because Americans would think it was a sequel, and they had missed the first 2 films!


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: Noreen
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 03:04 PM

Jury's out on Italian Job remake

(Jim, it wasn't an alternative title, but a famous Michael Caine quote from the original 1969 film.)


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 03:41 PM

Oh... o.k... THAT film... so back the the original post...

Ya... I saw it months ago... It was o.k... I like it, and I like the original, for different reasons...

Was the quote in it?? That I don't recall, but I'll likley own it when it comes out on DVD, so I can check then if you remind me...

:-)


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 03:52 PM

Serves me right. No point in trying to answer a question posed by a bloody Brit. They seem to enjoy making Americans misunderstand them, as if it somehow proves they're more intelligent than us. *g* (That's a small grin.)


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 04:10 PM

I think that Noreen's link answers the original question:

Injecting vitality into the original formula leaves no room for any of the one-liners, music or personality that made the 1969 film such a classic.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 07:15 PM

We don't need to prove anything, Jim. We already know... *G* (Big one this time;-) )

Cheers

:D


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: greg stephens
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 08:06 PM

Still no answer to my original question, as far as I can see: is there an equivalent moment in the remake to the "blow the bloody doors off" bit, and if so what is the new line?


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 08:12 PM

I'm, sure that there was a western movie which involved much the same thing happening, with an equivalent line, and that it was a sort of quoter when Michael Caine said it.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: greg stephens
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 08:20 PM

McGrath:intriguing. Any clues what movie? I remember Clint Eastwood doing a bit of trendy safe-blowing in one of the spaghetti westerns, but I dont recall a funny line.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: The Walrus
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 08:52 PM

The 'Western Line' came from 'Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid'
The Original (in 'The Italian Job') came after a van is blown to pieces "You're only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!")
In BC&TSK They blow an entire luggage car to pieces and 'The Kid' asks "Sure you used enough Dynamite, Butch?".

Incidentally, having remade both 'The Italian Job' and 'Get Carter', what's next? A remake of Zulu?, 'The Ipcess File'? 'Funeral in Berlin'? 'Alfie'? (The seem to want to work through chunks of the Caine canon<1>)

Walrus

<1> I can't see them trying 'A Hill in Korea" and much of his later work was American anyway


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 05:21 AM

Both films were 1969, so it looks like a case of parallel thinking rather than a quote. But it's interesting that it was the American film that had the more ironic comment on the situation.

Going the other way, there was the Comic Strip remake of a Spaghetti Western.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 05:29 AM

The thing thatalways sticks in my mind about "Get Carter" is the idea that a Geordie grows up, moves to London, and becomes so much a cockney that even when he goes back up to the north east, he doesn't get his Geordie accent back!

Steve


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 06:30 AM

Mentioning 'Zulu' brings a bit of music to the thread anyway:-) Can anyone confirm or deny another classic line and whetehr or not it was Caine who said it?

Welsh guard waiting for the attack begin to sing 'Men or Harlech'. Part way through the Zulus move into position and the ladscape as far as they eay can see is filled with them as they begin to chant and bang their shields.

"For Christs sake, Ivor" says someone who could well have been Michael Caine "Sing them something they like..."

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 06:51 AM

I saw the remake of 'the Italian Job' last night, as it was the only thing on at cinema starting after 9pm that I definitely didn't want to see. (I had been evicted from home so my son could give his girlfriend a surprise meal alone.)

It was decidedly average and I don't think there were any memorable lines. But at least it wasn't actually *bad*.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 10:36 AM

I haven't seen the remake, but I laugh like hell every time I see the original. How can you replace a cast which includes Michael Caine, Noel Coward, Benny Hill and I've forgotten how many others? It is, beyond any doubt, a classic. However, remakes in general tend to almost never be as good as the original no matter what country makes them.

For example,Alfred Hitchcock did a remake of his own film "The Man Who Knew Too Much". The second one is pale when compared to the original. It's the nature of remakes I'm afraid.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 11:39 AM

So, who would you get to play Caine and Connery in a remake of 'The man who would be King?'

I've got Zulu in the player at the moment, will let you know about the quote.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: The O'Meara
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 12:07 PM

I don't remember the name of the original Japanese movie that was made into "A Fistfull of Dollars" with Eastwood, but it was remade again into "Last Man Standing" with Bruce Willis. That's could be an example of double dumbing down by Hollywood, but I haven't seen the original. At least they didn't pretend either remake had a profound message.

BTW, the bit in "Butch Cassidy" about blowing the railroad car all to hell was based on historical fact, with photos for proof.

REmakes are a fine example of corporate thinking, they're sure moneymakers, they don't have to be better than the original. But sometimes (rarely) they do turn out better,as in the last version of "The Last of the Mohicans."

Hollywood being Hollywood, a remake of "The Man Who Would be KIng" would probably star Adam Sandler and Jim Carrey.

O'Meara


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 12:12 PM

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh, NOooooooooooooo

I was thinking more Brad Pitt and Christian Slater myself.... if such a remake were even thinkable....

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 01:01 PM

"How can you replace a cast which includes Michael Caine, Noel Coward, Benny Hill..."

Well, you sort of have to, because they're all too old or too dead now...


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: greg stephens
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 01:12 PM

McGrath's comment that it was the American western that had the ironic line is spot on. There is nothing at all ironic about Caine's "bloody doors" line (so Americans should be able to understand it), in fact it is difficult to see why it was so funny. Timing, I suppose. There is nothing particularly yobbish, xenophobic or specially English about it either, which are the characteristics often attributed to the Italian Job as a whole. Yet the line does stand out and sets the whole tone of the film.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: The Walrus
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 04:04 PM

As I recall (from some interview I believe) the 'bloody' got dropped by Caine as an ad-lib ("You're only supposed to blow the doors off" doesn't quite have the same ring).

The Japanese film that was copied/mined/ripped off/reference (choose your own term) to become "Fistful of Dollars" and "Last Man Standing" was (I believe) "Yojimbo"('The Bodyguard'), not a bad film I seem to recall (It's a long time since I sat through a Japanese film<1>).

Walrus

<1> Except one of the 'Babycart' films and that was just a chop=fest


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 04:20 PM

I think the thing is that in an English film you'd have expected an ironic comment at that point, or a highly excited one, so one that's in straight, so to speak, and low key at that, comes across as unexpected, and therefore funny.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: M.Ted
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 05:20 PM

It's the old irony discussion again, eh, Kevin? Americans can be just as ironic as anyone else--in fact, in the West, it's necessary for survival--


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 05:37 PM

The thing about the blowing the doors off, the film crew didn't have permission to make an explosion that big, it was bigger than they expected, so when the camera pans out from the smoking remains, they immediately had to leg it away before the police and fire brigade came to investigate.

What makes it one of the classic lines, it's one of the few swear words in the whole film (imagine today's interpretation of it.... You're f****g supposed to f*&&*&*g blow the f*&&**g doors off!) and it's the typical ironic understatement. The man was given a problem to solve and being a bloke, he over solved it, leaving a bigger problem than before.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 06:05 PM

There's no way irony isn't characteristic of Americans - but I suggest that the difference is that Americans tend to use direct un-ironic speech as the default mode of communication, indicating when they are switching to ironic ("smile when you say that"); the English (and the Irish) tend to use irony as default, especially in situations where some kind of comment is felt to be needed, and are more likely to feel it necessary to give a specific indication when they actually mean what they say ("and I mean that").


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Blow the bloody doors off':American tra
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 10:00 PM

Yes Mcgrath,

that's it!

Which is why Americans seem to fill up chat/emails with lots of LOL's whereas English/Australians/Canadians/New Zealanders, seem to be able to cope with ironic written statements. We have lots of younger aussies who do the same until things are quietly explained to them, and then they seem to catch on to the irony mach faster too. Maybe it's a case of expecting it...


Walrus ---> "Yojimbo"('The Bodyguard')

That's it. I thought the Baby Cart series was (although a bit slow!) was on the smae plane as the Spagetti Westerns... love them all .. once again there is often an implied ironic thread in them both.

Robin


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