when should a bodran be used

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 09:46 PM

I've sometimes wondered whether the name bodhran is actually an abbreviated version of tambourine.

Yes, I know it's supposed to be related to the Old Irish bodar for deafening, but I wonder whether that mighty be cod back-etymology.

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 01:17 PM

actually, 'guest' above, it WAS Sean O'Riada who introduced the bodhran into Irish traditional music, not heard before him, though there are some tambourines played on a couple of early 78s without much jingle.

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 01:13 PM

Oops... 01:07 PM was me at my new, second, job. I suppose I could log in, since I am the Manager (what a prick to work for !).

gnu

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 01:07 PM

Martin... And that's what gives Bodhran players a bad name. I've heard "real" musicians say, "You're just banging on a drum.", mainly because they have never had a session with someone who plays "well". There are two main types of playing for any instrument... lead or accompanyment. The attitude of many Hran players I have met is that are the beat, the rythm, but, usually, they are the ones who are just banging on a drum. I was in a group once where the others insisted that I play when I knew it wasn't appropriate because I instinctively knew I'd just be banging on the drum and not adding to the music... simply put, either there were other instruments better suited to do the job or none suited, especially mine. After refusing flat out to play on some tunes, they told me that it was for looks and that the sound man could turn off my mike if I felt that strongly about it. I was pissed. Mainly because it meant I would get no break for a pint.

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: MartinRyan
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 09:49 AM

One night in 1998, I was singing, unaccompanied, "Henry Joy" at a session when a guy I'd never seen before started tipping at his bodhrán with a brush. He came over to me afterwards and said: "I hope that was alright?". "No, it wasn't alright" said I, " It was bloody great!". It ended up on the Mudcat Violet CD, via a Roscommon SIngers Circle recording.

However..... this was an exception. As has often been said, what matters is not how easy it is to play the bodhrán badly, insensitively ar just too loud - but how difficult it is to play well.

Regards

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: GUEST,Bodhrandophile
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 06:27 AM

Wasn't always a 'phile, but I used to go occasionally to a session that had lots of bodhran players as regulars (unkindly known as the Bodhrandoliers)- once there were TEN going at once in a session of about 20 players! That session is now deceased - I wonder why?

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: gnu
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 05:18 AM

Mud huts and no time to play or listen. And then the famine. No wonder my Irish forefathers left for the fly-infested bog country of Kent County. They did, however, bring a fiddle, whistles and Hran. Only the fiddle survives to this day.

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: Steve Hunt
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 04:50 AM

Re: The bodhrán player at Bromyard. His name is Daniel Griffin, and you can check Mise's web site here: http://www.misemusic.com

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 01:57 AM

One year at the Woodford Folk Festival, there was this young guy with a didj, a car battery, an amp, and a pile of techno boxes cross linked with all sorts of effects.

Very interesting range of sounds. But of course, it was what he was doing that was gathering the crowds around. (No, you disgusting creatures, it was the sort of music he was making!)

Native traditional players of the didj used it to "talk", almost, they can create a wide range of sound effects, some so natural sounding that it is stunning, and other sounds that symbolically represent animals behaviour. Some of these aren't obvious when you first hear them, but they are played to accompany certain physical actions of the dancers.

Robin

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Sep 03 - 10:20 AM

Mind, the fact, taking it to be a fact, that the bodhran appears to be a recent introduction, is nothing against it. That's what happens in a living tradition. It happened a few years earlier with the banjo and the melodian, and a few years later with the bouzouki. And in fact with just about every instrument, including that hi-tech masterpiece of its day, the uilleann pipes.

Perhaps in time it'll happen for the didgeridoo, if the didgepayers can discipline themselves into just supplying a drone.

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 03 - 09:34 AM

McGrath Of harlow, as usual, has hit the nail on the head here. The Bohdran was used really only by the Wren Boys of county wexford in their annual ceremonies of catching, killing and caging a wren. It was not played widely at all and was used to make a noisy chorus.

When Sean O Riada began to look at ways of rcreating and bringing irish music music to the sttention of the irish people his reseach led him to create small music groups which led to the Chieftains. He didn't use a Bohdran and the guy was the worlds leading expert in the subject. Like the session its self the Bohdran has no authenticity as a traditional music vehicle. i enjoy sessions myself of course, but they are a very recent invention.

In the past in Ireland traditional music and musicians were very rare. The people were terrfyingly poor and people could not afford instruments and had no time to play or to listen. In some parts of Ireland in the nineteenth century over 85% of people lived in little more than mud huts. Music was not part of their lives. I have spoken to older irish people who tell me the first irish music they heard was in the form of 78 records sent back from america in the 1920's.

If you go back to the first part of the nineteenth century about 75% of people lived in temporary dwellings in England, almost 90% in parts wales and I imagine similar figures in scotland. Its a miracle the music survived and I guess much of it didn't.

stevethesqueeze

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 06:28 PM

Whenever the chamberpot's full.
More seriously, loud instruments should be used with great care--a bad player can destroy a session.

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 05:45 PM

For when to play try listening to some old Planxty albums. The use of the bodhran is really well judged (apart from a rather badly recorded one on Hackler of Grouse Hall which is still brilliant)

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: Mr Red
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 05:23 PM

Did I miss something - did no-one mention "as a trampoline" (Ok - with shoes ON for the completeness of the joke)

I have had people nearly sit on mine because being red it can be mistaken the padding on a stool if put down like that for a moment, which begs the question about the bar. As my dear mother used to say in such circumstances - "comfortable in a funny sort of way".

Answer to draw fire away from the massed melodeon players when the jokes start flying. (the Banjo player can look after himself)

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 05:09 PM

A sing;le muffled drum at a military type funeral you might get. I suppose a bodhran could be used at a pinch.

I've heard the suggestion that to start with it was just an improvised drum made by stretching a bit of skin over the kind of sieve you'd use in a farm, and was done just for "hunting the wren", or maybe for scaring birds. Are there any records of it being used as a regular musical instrument before the 1960s? (I don't mean recordings - though them too of course, if any.)

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: tuggy mac
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 02:57 PM

Thanks belfast. read it somewhere ,

All the best tuggy.

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: belfast
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 09:24 AM

I've been to more funerals than I care to remember and I've never seen or heard a bodhran been played there. Occasionally a single piper in front of the cortege and occasionally a fiddle or flute playing a slow air or lament after the interment.

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: tuggy mac
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 05:18 AM

I heard the other day that the bodrhan was actually used ,played in front of irish funeral.to beat the walking pace!Fact or fiction anyone please?

Tuggy mac.

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: tuggy mac
Date: 27 Sep 03 - 10:50 AM

like it but cant hear the tune!Michael!
Cheers tuggy.

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: michaelr
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 08:30 PM

Click `ere for a song that explains it all.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: tuggy mac
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 06:26 PM

Like it dave, funny but naughty!

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: Folkiedave
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 03:46 PM

Is a bodhran played by a modhran?

Dave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: clansfolk
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 03:11 PM

like any other instrument (including voice) whenever you want!

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: Tam the Bam (Nutter)
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 01:34 PM

When people ask what it's called I just say 'drum' saves the confustion.
Mind the spelling
Tom

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: tuggy mac
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 05:43 AM

It seems ive hit a raw nerve with this question.\but no sugestions from the penny whistles/mandolins/or singers even!

cheers everyone, tuggy mac.

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: Splott Man
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 04:03 AM

Going back a bit (I"ve just picked up this thread),

Skippy,
the young fellow you heard playing at Bromyard was probably in the Irish band Mise - pronounced Mee-shah.

Cheers

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 03:43 AM

Harking back a wee bittie to the pronunciation of "bodhran"----ALL the Irish folks I have heard say "bow-ron"; most of the Scots say "bo-RANN". I've often wondered if this could be due to difference in Scots and Irish gaelic?

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 02:24 AM

As contraception for an elephant?

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 02:02 AM

Spoons and bodhrans suit differebt rhythms. Reels are great for bodhrans but very tiring for spoons and bones. Polkas are great for spoons or bones but most bodhran players I've met struggle.

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Sep 03 - 11:17 PM

I'm proud to say that I have an Acoustic Four-Guitar Piano-Accordion.

It can drown out Four Acoustic Guitars....

:-)

Robin

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Sep 03 - 01:48 PM

A didge played as a drone can work quite well. Of course just playing one note throughout a whole tune might get a bit boring to do, but it's what drones are supposed to do.

"What do you call someone who likes to hang around with musicians?" "A drummer."

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: GUEST,Claire
Date: 25 Sep 03 - 01:25 PM

At least a bodhran, if played somewhat decently, doesn't smear across the tune and take all the lift out of it. Even the best dijerido playing can do that! Somehow didg players at sessions seem to think that anything in their key is licence to....mmmmmmrmrrrrmmmmoooooooomnmmmmoooo.

A pet peave, and even we bodhran players have them!
Claire

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: fretless
Date: 25 Sep 03 - 01:24 PM

No one has yet mentioned the other percussive toy that is sometimes used to abuse Irish traditional music: the spoons. Bodhran and spoons can both, separately, complement traditional music, but I don't recall ever hearing them work well together on an Irish tune. Why?

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: Tam the Bam (Nutter)
Date: 25 Sep 03 - 01:14 PM

I'm ashamed to admit I play the Bordhran, I think a bordran should played as loudly as possible so you can't hear the Banjo and Accordion players.

What do you call someone with very little musical tatlent?

A bordran player

What do you call someone with no musical tatlent?

A banjo player

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Sep 03 - 01:09 PM

I think the folk-singing horse should maybe make an appearance around now.

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: Art Thieme
Date: 25 Sep 03 - 12:46 PM

Of course, Catherine The Great used one as an I.U.D. for many years.
It was she who made up those buttons that proclaimed for all to see ----- "FANNY POWER"----and then she handed 'em out to all her consorts. One of 'em must've written the tune which I hear once in a while now.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Sep 03 - 01:53 AM

Best advice to a beginning bodran player I have heard:

"Play it with a sharp knife!"

Robin

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 07:31 PM

and of course there's bongos and bones

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: tuggy mac
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 07:09 PM

SO FAR SO GOOD VERY INFORMATIVE YA,ALL!

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 04:29 PM

I'd just like to add button accordion to Tinker from Chicago's list of b instruments.....

Kitty

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: greg stephens
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 03:51 PM

you dont really need the d in djembe either.

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 03:19 PM

a bodhran should be used when you need kindling for the djembe

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 02:54 PM

That's a Hindu word - different rules apply.

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 01:34 PM

... for fear of unleashing a bodhran attack...

Hm, does that mean that "jodhpurs" should be "jowpers"? Geephers!

~S~

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 01:17 PM

I always say "bow-ron". But people vary. Just so long as you avoid prnouncing it with a "d" in the middle. The "d" is there as a way of warning people not to pronounce it...

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: GUEST,Strollin' Johnny
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 01:09 PM

FURTHERMORE (and driftin' away from the main theme, as is my wont) - how should the word 'Bodhran' be pronounced? I've heard people at our club pronounce it many ways, including "BO-rran", or "Bo-RRAN" (stress on the capitals) but I saw a programme on the haunted fish-bowl a while back about the history of the Bodhran, and every one of the many Irish expert players called it the "Bow-Ron" (pronounced 'Bow' as in Bend From The Waist, and 'Ron' as in.... well, Ron!

Anybody got the definitive answer? ('Ere comes another argument!)

JB

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 09:20 AM

I hate the bloody things, mostly because they are played so badly by so many. They have become the equivilent of the tambourine, toos it at the member of the band who is tone deaf. Played well it is a fabulous addition to CERTAIN songs.

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 09:01 AM

Massed percussion is a different genre. It can be overdone, even in traditions where it is very important, but it's capable of being extremely intrixcate and delicate as well as exciting.

But it doesn't belong in the kind of music where bodhrans are at home - and by that I mean, not just frame drums, but teh frame drumn played in the Irish techniques.

And I'd say the same about pretty well any instrument, not just the bodhran. It's a music made up of individual instruments playing together, not of rhythm sections and string sections and so forth. A kind of chamber dance music even. I can quite imagine that massed bodhrans might work in the same kind of setting as massed bagpipes, such as a marching band - but neither would be too welcome in an indoors session or a dance.

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 02:52 AM

---My spatulate digits don't tend to make the same mess of my bodharn playing---honest!--As I was trying to say---I do NOT agree with the assertion that the bodhran can have no place following 3/4 time. I have used it ,and heard it used, very effectively as soft percussion to "Fanny Power" and several other similar melodies, usually in mandolin instrumentals. The drum, I would agree, is hardly suitable if a slavish adherence to the wooden tipper is indulged. But the bodhran, in spite of much popular belief, is NOT a "traditional" instrument. So it follows that neither is the wooden tipper! Many a nice waltz instrumental is complemented by a background of bodhran played [discreetly!] using a tipper composed of bunched kebab sticks---or better still in some cases, an even less intrusive stick made up by bunching broom twigs , which can be "tonally adjusted" by positioning elastic bands on either side of the central binding. A steel jazz brush also can add to the versatility of the bodhran, not only by directly playing the skin , but in certain instrumentals by using it to complement the wooden tipper simply by lightly keeping it in contact with the skin while the tipper does the striking; this can mimic a "snare drum" almost to perfection. So don't be intimidated by the detractors! If an instrumentalist or vocal performer does not want bodhran backing, by all means comply with their wishes. Experience will at length let you know when NOT to play bodhran---and there are many times when this will be so. Those who caution against multiple bodhran players in a session are in general quite right. Unless players can synchronise every beat the result is almost surely discord. And bodhrans are a BACKGROUND INSTRUMENT. Unless a drum solo is asked for, the bodhran sound should blend quietly with the rhythm being created by the group as a whole. As a bodhran player you can never be a "star" unless you can play jigs and reels while doing somersaults . Just enjoy what you do, don't intrude excessively [as many another instrument does!], and try all innovative methods of playing with c.d. or cassette at home first!

Subject: RE: Folklore: when should a bodran be used
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 02:16 AM

I think Robin has it about right. The bodhran can be a very versatile percussion instrument in hands which have not only learned its "traditional' use, but have progressed and experimented in its application to other genres, such as blue-grass, jazz and many a piece of music of any kind which has a rhythm which can be accentuated by percussion. I do