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Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist
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Subject: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Joybell Date: 28 Sep 03 - 07:28 PM I'm interested in songs that are about themselves that logically couldn't have existed before the singing of them. Not songs that were, or could have been, tunes before the words were attached. eg "The Tennesse Waltz", "Bonaparte's Retreat" "Elmer's tune". Nor do I mean songs with the title inside them. Lots of them. The best example I've found is "Truck Driving Man" which is about a truck driving man who goes into a road-house in Texas and plays the song he says is called "Truck Driving Man" on the juke box. ( over and over) For all I know he's still stuck in there! The song can't have been on that juke box before he arrived. "Heart of My Heart" is another one. "Jug of Punch" might be if the small bird on the ivy bunch actually sang the words and didn't just whistle the tune. Do you think there is reason to fear getting trapped in songs like these? |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Amos Date: 28 Sep 03 - 07:49 PM The rationale for this sort of self-referential loop , as they are called, is fully explored in the book Godel, Escher, and Bach by Douglas Hofstadter. I actually read it once all the way through, which was no mean feat. But don't ask me to explain or remember it! A |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: curmudgeon Date: 28 Sep 03 - 07:53 PM I have never felt comfortable singing songs written by dead people. |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Joybell Date: 28 Sep 03 - 07:55 PM Thank you so much Amos. I'll try to get hold of the book. I'm much less frightened now. And good to know the idea has a name, gives you more control. |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 28 Sep 03 - 07:55 PM "I have never felt comfortable singing songs written by dead people. Well, that rules out pretty well all folk songs. |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Joybell Date: 28 Sep 03 - 07:57 PM But are they dead? They can't be they're still stuck inside their song! Aren't they? |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Bill D Date: 28 Sep 03 - 08:03 PM Oh, wow...I read maybe a third of it in bits & peices!(and I 'almost' understood self-referential loops)...but, have you seen Hofstadter's 2nd book, "Metamagical Themas: Questing for the Essence of Mind and Pattern"? .a collection of essays on topics like 'how we tell what is true, relevant and meaningful'.... that man do go on! (as a kid, I went to a barbershop with mirrors on both walls and was facinated by the infinite reflections! Maybe that explains something?) |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Bill D Date: 28 Sep 03 - 08:06 PM before you look for that book, Joybelle. take a look here..*grin* http://www.d.kth.se/~d90-mst/geb/ |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Joybell Date: 28 Sep 03 - 08:25 PM Mirrors!! Yes I was going to mention them. I got stuck in them the same way (not at the barber's) when I was five. |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: GUEST,pdq Date: 28 Sep 03 - 08:26 PM Serious answer would be "The Tennessee Waltz", because they were dancing to IT in the song. |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Joybell Date: 28 Sep 03 - 08:29 PM Oh Bill! Heavy stuff. Thank you. And why are you grining? If I don't return who will remember me and fetch me back? |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: curmudgeon Date: 28 Sep 03 - 09:00 PM Excuse my lack of clarity, ie., songs written by people after they were dead. |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Joybell Date: 28 Sep 03 - 09:50 PM That waltz - I don't know. I've wondered. Seems that the words mention "The Tennesse waltz" but don't call it a song. Maybe it was just a tune? "I was dancing with my darling to the Tennessee Waltz ..." It certainly become a song of self-referential loopyness (thanks Bill) after the words were written. Amos I don't suppose we should worry about trying to rescue them from within their songs then - I mean if they were already dead when they wrote them. I have been worrying. Joybelle (thanks again Bill) |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Bill D Date: 28 Sep 03 - 10:12 PM why, you're welcome, Joybelle!...I'm grinning (I really DO grin when I type that!) because I was sending you that thought-maze where people either dive in or bounce off in horror....Don't fret about getting lost; Alice found her way out of looking-glass land, didn't she? If we don't hear from you, we'll send the Red Queen to walk backwards ever so fast to fetch you! |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 28 Sep 03 - 10:26 PM Ah yes. Escher, Godel and Bach - brilliant book! About self referentiality. I talked to an ant's nest once! :-) I had been trying to read this book for some time, and just didn't seem to be grasping what it was all about. I was off work, staying at my mother's place, because of an inner/midle ear infection. The doctor had said, take this stuff, it's really good, one drop three times a day on a cube of sugar - it's really bitter - don't try to drive a car or operate machinery, etc. It'll fix the problem in a week or so... Once I had taken the stuff, I was able to read the book from cover to cover.... AND UNDERSTAND IT! :-O While sitting out on the back steps, having nothing to do but sit in th warmth, I noticed a trail of ants up the back wall. Remembering the book, I started turning the flow of ants back by poking at them with my finger, killing the persistent ones. In about half an hour, there were tens of thousands of ants covering most of the wall, in a large standing wave pattern. This was fun! I was talking to an ant's nest! My mother came and led me away, and put me back to bed! She seemed a litle concerned when I told her what I was doing! Oh, the bitter liquid - mainly nor-adrenaline... :-) The ear infection cleared up! Robin |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Kudzuman Date: 28 Sep 03 - 10:46 PM Godel, Escher, Bach............I too found my way through it one time....I may never be right again....not to say that I ever was... Lalalalala,heydeeheydeehey,oh just fugue it. Kudzuman |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Mark Clark Date: 28 Sep 03 - 11:12 PM Clearly no songs were written by dead people. I think curmudgeon is talking about songs like “Sam Hall” and “Long Black Veil” in which the narrative voice is singing from beyond the grave and therefore, while not self referential, the song couldn't really exist either. Amos, I should have known you'd be reading Hofstadter. But he wasn't simply writing about self referetiality was he? He was writing about a specific type of it—exemplified in a Bach fugue—where the theme is not only self referential but is repeated in each voice offset in time so each redefines the other. What about the song “Poor Howard's Dead and Gone?” Poor Howard's dead and gone,Poor Howard couldn't have left the singer to sing a song that couldn't have existed before Poor Howard's death. Could he? - Mark |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Amos Date: 28 Sep 03 - 11:27 PM Mark: IIRC he was not only talking about the sophisticated self-replication and scalability (as in fractals and fugues) but also the paradox of self-referentiality, as in the sentence "This sentence is false." These are constructs which seem to drive the listener mad because they seem to embed the container into the thing contained, as James Thurber put it, setting up an Infinite Loop of reference. (Did you know that in the early days of Apple's success, Steve Jobs got the city of Cupertino to accept the name of their company campus as "Infinite Loop"?) A |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Bill D Date: 28 Sep 03 - 11:31 PM hmmm..it doesn't say that Poor Howard knew of the song, only that he is dead and that the singer is still here There are implied conditionals in the phrase which would not scan well if sung in their entirety "Left me here {with nothing else to do but write and} to sing this song" Am I really analyzing counterfactual conditionals again after all these years! (and doing it poorly!) Lawsy! |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Mark Clark Date: 29 Sep 03 - 12:33 AM Amos, Yeah… it's just hard to summerize a book such as GEB in a couple of sentances. But now that you've reminded me of the many pleasures in the book, I'll have to go back and read it again. I do remember that one of my greatest pleasures in computing was using HLLs such as C in which algorithms could be expressed as a few simple recursive statements. I first wrote recursive routines in assembler but you had to engineer your own recursion and manage the stacks yourself. Much nicer when the compiler would do it for you. Greg Brown's “Iowa Waltz” is self-referential and had no existence prior to Greg's composition. Come and see, Come dance with me, - Mark |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: s&r Date: 29 Sep 03 - 04:31 AM I looked for the link re Gobel's incompleteness theorem. The resulting page said"Gone". How incomplete! |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Geoff the Duck Date: 29 Sep 03 - 04:50 AM Joybell - I have Absolutely no problem with this sor of song. It is just proof that Time Travel is more common than the daily papers would have us believe. Then again, I grew up reading Sci-Fi, and the principle of going back in time to influence your earlier self so that reality stays the same for your later self is a well trod theme (Robert Heinlein - By His Bootstraps etc.). There ia a very clever short story by Stanislaw Lem about a group set up to police misuse of Time Travel, which fails miserably because members of the team go back and change time themselves. They lose people such as Harris Tottle and Pete Lado back to ancient Greece etc. and can't do anything about the mess they make. Perhaps the song, Sam Hall, was a warning to he villain to change his ways or else he would suffer a fate (not worse than death, but exactly the same as...). If we go to the short stories of John Wyndham it follows that in one reality, Sam listened to the warning, and reformed, but sent himself a message back to an earlier point in time, which is still within OUR history, as a song, but of course, in OUR history, Sam didn't reform, and came a cropper, but the song remains as a failed warning! Quack. Geoff the Duck. |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Pied Piper Date: 29 Sep 03 - 05:44 AM Muchjoy in the heavenlybode. The role of affine redundancy in the generation of natural structures. TTFN PP |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 29 Sep 03 - 06:55 AM A different way of being trapped in a song - but Dylan's All Along the Watchtower is a classic case of a Kleinian loop song, with the last verse taking you back to the first line of the song, in which the joker is plaintively saying "There must be some way out of here..." |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Splott Man Date: 29 Sep 03 - 07:14 AM Hi Joybell, Andy Breckman of Chicago wrote a hilarious song called Buffalo Bill in which the central character argues with the songwriter about the way the song is going. is that the sort of thing you mean? |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Deckman Date: 29 Sep 03 - 07:17 AM MY GAWD! Here's living proof that ALL you pholkes have way too much time on your hands. I've studied this thread for three days now. I'm tired, so I'm going to quit and sort my color crayons back into their respective boxes! (hee hee) Bob(deckman)Nelson |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Jim Dixon Date: 29 Sep 03 - 07:44 AM This topic has been mentioned before, in the thread called Metasongs, songs within songs. I once read a novel in which the narrator dies at the end. Well, he doesn't exactly say "and then I died" but he does, on the last page, describe himself in a situation where there is no possible outcome except his death. And there is no one around to listen to his story, no paper to write on. Is that spooky enough for ya? I'd tell you the name of the novel, but I just spoiled it for you didn't I? |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Joybell Date: 29 Sep 03 - 07:55 AM Oh what fun! All the greatest minds in and out the mirrors, round and round in musical mazes. I found an old list. There are quite a few dance songs that might fit. But I'm not sure. "Missouri Waltz" "Jailhouse Rock" "Kentucky Waltz" Tom Lehrer's "Masochism Tango" Then there's "Sam's Song" and the Italian song "La Montanara" (about singing the song called "La Montanara" (The Mountain Girl) for the benefit of listeners who don't know the words. Thank you Bill for your grin and your offer of help if I get lost or trapped. Joybelle |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Steve Parkes Date: 29 Sep 03 - 08:01 AM How about "The Last Waltz"? But Joybell, the song you know as "Heart of my heart" is actually "The gang that sang 'Heart of my heart'", so it's not autoreferential after all. (And yes, there really is a song called "Heart of my heart", although I only found it not so long back, and I can't be sure if this was it or not.) Steve |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 29 Sep 03 - 08:17 AM "They don't write 'em like that any more" |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Steve Parkes Date: 29 Sep 03 - 08:19 AM Sudden thought #1: are there any songs that create themselves before they exist? Along the lines of "I'm going to write a song about ..." Sudden thought #2: how about this Sydney Carter song? Seated one day a the juke-box A teenager saw me and said, "I can tell you're a square by the cut of your hair, And it's time you were tucked up in your bed! Whenever I turn on the juke box The message is perfectly clear: If you'e past twenty-one then you've had all your fun, And you ain't got the right to be here. Middle-aged, middle class, mediocre: That is something I don't want to be; I know it can happen to people like you, But it ain't gonna happen to me! I'll be twenty-two in the morning, There's nothing but manhood ahead; I'l be past twenty-one, so I'm buying a gun And I'm going to put a bullet through my head! [à la Jim Reeves:] They'll write a sad folk song about me, And the whole world will hear it and cry. And when I get to Heaven the juke box will play The song I was singing when I died: Middle-aged, middle class, mediocre: That is something I don't want to be; I know it can happen to people like you, But it ain't gonna happen to me!" In fact, this is even better than I'd thought! He will shoot himself; the song will be written after his death; it will already have been recorded and on the juke box when he arrives (instantaneously, one supposes) in Heaven. Anybody beat that? Steve |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Joybell Date: 29 Sep 03 - 08:22 AM Steve, yes of course you're right. "The Gang that Sang Heart of My Heart" is a song about a fictional song, and it doesn't belong here. Thank you for the link though. What an interesting poem. Joy the Belle |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Joybell Date: 29 Sep 03 - 08:32 AM Steve, Find that man have him sign a contract immediatly - before he writes the song. Eternal royalties from Heaven! Just think of it! Joyous Belle |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Deckman Date: 29 Sep 03 - 08:39 AM Don't forget the last verse of "Hang Me, Oh Hang Me": "They put the rope around my neck, and hung me very high, They put the rope around my neck, and hung me very high, The very last words I heard them say, Was it won't be long, 'till you dies, God knows, I've been all around this world." CHEERS, Bob |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Bill D Date: 29 Sep 03 - 08:49 AM ohh...just thought of one! I WAS RIGHT, I WAS WRONG G D G When first I saw Portland I questioned my eyes C G D D7 I was awed by the lights and a-mazed at the size, G G7 C Then a feeling of dread dropped out of the blue, G C G D D7 As it often does when I see something new; G D G I was quite overcome with sus-picion and fear, C G D D7 So I stopped at a pub and I asked for a beer, G G7 C I must have been mad to go in there alone, G C G C G C D7 I was up to no good and I should have gone home. Chorus: D7 G D G I was right, I was wrong all a-long, C G D I was right, I was wrong all a-long; G G7 C I was wrong all a-long, and I knew I was wrong, G D7 G I was right, I was wrong all a-long. The back room was full of cigar smoking gents, And against my best judgment it's back there I went; They offered me whiskey which I never touch, And I frequently told them "Don't pour me too much." It was not what I wanted and not what I planned, But the next thing you know, there were cards in my hand; And like many a time, though I 've often resolved To never play cards when there's money involved... Well, first I lost silver and then I lost gold, And then I lost consciousness so I was told; And when I awoke things had gone quite amiss, I always had known it would end up like this; There was blood and a body and bottles galore, Lying right next to me there on the floor; I said, "Constable, please, I'm an innocent man!" As he pulled the revolver from out of me hand... The judge banged his gavel and asked, "What's your plea?" I said, "Someone killed him but surely not me." There was no way in hell, I was out like a light, Though I talk in my sleep, I doubt I could fight; The jurors left the court room at the drop of a hat, They returned with their verdict in ten minutes flat; I was sentenced to hang by this jury of peers, And so I've been dead for a good hundred years... Will virtue bear fruit? You can never be sure, Even if watered and plied with manure; You've no hope to harvest the things that you plant, But keep right on trying, and prove that you can't; It's a minimal effort you need to exert, Knowing that soon you'll be covered in dirt; Be certain of failure and lose every fight, And some day like me you'll be proud you was right... |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Amos Date: 29 Sep 03 - 08:50 AM This thread is most excellent. A |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Joybell Date: 29 Sep 03 - 08:58 AM We're going well on the impossible thing and yes some of these songs are "songs within songs" as they appear on the thread of that name. But - they aren't all self-proclaiming. What we need is songs that are named as THIS song, which is this song, which is this song, which is this song, which is this song. |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: GUEST Date: 29 Sep 03 - 09:05 AM Midnight on the Water |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Willie-O Date: 29 Sep 03 - 09:26 AM It's the end of the world as we know it. And I feel fine. I think I feel fine, therefore...? W-O |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Steve Parkes Date: 29 Sep 03 - 10:17 AM No, no, Joybell! It's a song about a real song! Steve |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Burke Date: 29 Sep 03 - 10:26 AM Friday I saw the Bristol Brothers in concert. Their intro to their country waltz tune was that it's a requirement that the tune be mentioned in the words this way. Then they played "Memory Waltz." |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Mark Clark Date: 29 Sep 03 - 10:39 AM <thread creep> So Burke, where did you see the Bristol Brothers? And do you know either Richard or Don? - Mark |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Burke Date: 29 Sep 03 - 11:02 AM Mark, I saw them at the Kirkland Art Center, Clinton, NY. One of them lives in Geneva, NY so they perform pretty regularly around here. I've seen them a number of times live and really enjoy their music. I also have a couple of their CD's. I know them only as performers. If you're a fan, did you know they have reissued some of their earlier bluegrass on CD's? |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 29 Sep 03 - 11:02 AM I used the opposite tack in one of my own compositions: Ain't Got Time to Sing the Blues When I wake up in the mornin' That ole sun peekin' over my head You know sometimes there's nothin' I'd rather do Than to fall right back in bed But my sweet little woman won't let me She says there's too much I' got to do She says the sun is up and the day is short And you ain't got time to sing the blues She says the chickens need a feedin' And the garden needs a weedin' Ain't no need to carry on that way Stop it with your grumpin' You better getta humpin' Or you won't be finished before judgement day So I grab up a cup of coffee And head on out to meet the day Maybe I could complain to my congressman But it wouldn' do no good anyway So grab up my ole pick an' shovel An' put on my ole' workin' shoes An' head out in the sun, you know it ain't no fun When you ain't got time to sing the blues (Instrumental break) And when my workin' day is over And the roosters are gone off to bed I stumble back home weary to my bones And feelin' just about half dead That's when my sweet little woman snuggles up to me And says now baby I've got somethin' for you The day is done it's time to have some fun You ain't got time to sing the blues She says your baby needs a squeezin' Now don't give me no reason Why you can't do just like I say Listen to your mamma Get outta them pajamas It's time to be takin' a roll in the hay Oh, Lord, life ain't never easy When a man has got a woman like mine I could tell you all more about it But I just ain't got the time Maybe one day I'll sit down with my ole guitar And write a song about it for you But my woman won't leave me alone long enough And I ain't got time to sing the blues The joke, of course, is that if the song's character is really as enslaved as he claims to be the song couldn't have been written. By the way, because people always ask when I perform this song, no, I don't wear pajamas. |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Amos Date: 29 Sep 03 - 06:39 PM BD-- SOmeone's curiousity must have surely been quite piqued!! :>) They ask about the pajamas, but not about the peculiar self-referential impossibility of the song... Tsk..... A |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Joybell Date: 29 Sep 03 - 07:33 PM They are always like that. My husband and I once appeared at our resturant gig dressed as Pan and a non-specific Nymph (we were young then sigh!) and everyone asked if our feet weren't cold, all bare like that. Missed the point of it being a mid-winter solstice feast as far as we could tell. They wanted John Denver songs as usual. Steve, right again. I suspect. The song must have been real, sorry. Of course! My mind is having the most wonderful exercise. And it's safe here with friends. Bee duya, I like your song. It feels like our place. We never have got chickens so my man gets to sleep in before we tackle the work together. Willie-O, Yes I think so too. I will miss this thread when it finally dies. It is fun isn't it Amos. |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Nathan in Texas Date: 29 Sep 03 - 10:05 PM HOw about Marty Robbins' "El Paso" It starts in with the narrator using the past tense ... Out in the West Texas town of El Paso I fell in love with a Mexican girl ... Switches to present: ... It's been so long since I've seen the young maiden My love is stronger than my fear of death ... Back to past . . . . I saddled up and away I did go Riding alone in the dark ... Present.... Maybe tomorrow a bullet will find me Tonight nothing's worse than this pain in my heart present, some time later... And at last here I am on the hill overlooking El Paso I can see Rosa's cantina below My love is strong and it pushes me onward Down off the hill to Felina I go Off to my right I see five mounted cowboys Off to my left ride a dozen or more Shouting and shooting, I can't let them catch me I have to make it to Rosa's back door Something is dreadfully wrong, for I feel A deep burning pain in my side Though I am trying to stay in the saddle I'm getting weary, unable to ride But my love for Felina is strong and I rise where I've fallen Though I am weary I can't stop to rest I see the white puff of smoke from the rifle I feel the bullet go deep in my chest . . . Present, after being shot and before dying From out of nowhere Felina has found me Kissing my cheek as she kneels by my side Cradled by two loving arms that I'll die for One little kiss, then Felina goodbye. So from which side of the grave is the song? |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Joybell Date: 29 Sep 03 - 10:29 PM Yes Nathan, thanks. It surely occurs in a time-warp. I always wondered if you could keep him alive if you kept singing the song. The Truck Driving Man who started me off on all this is somewhere in a roadhouse in Texas. If you find him please tell us. I remember tales from childhood like: 'twas a cold cold night in Siberia three men sat on a log. Tell us a tale Jim (?) said one, and this is the tale he told. 'twas a cold cold night in Siberia etc. etc. I think they fit here somewhere. I hope I know when I'm going to die so that I can slip into a comfortable endless song - one that I really love. |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Nerd Date: 30 Sep 03 - 01:14 PM 25 minutes to go is a great song from Shel Silverstein, which is certainly in a time warp--each verse, which takes about 5 seconds to sing,describes one minute, and in the end he dies before the song can be written. It's not a "self-proclaiming song," though: 25 MINUTES TO GO They're buildin' the gallows outside my cell. I got 25 minutes to go. And in 25 minutes I'll be in Hell. I got 24 minutes to go. Well, they give me some beans for my last meal. 23 minutes to go. And you know... nobody asked me how I feel. I got 22 minutes to go. So, I wrote to the Gov'nor... the whole damned bunch. Ahhh... 21 minutes to go. And I call up the Mayor, and he's out to lunch. I got 20 more minutes to go. Well, the Sheriff says, "Boy, I wanna watch you die". 19 minutes to go. I laugh in his face... and I spit in his eye. I got 18 minutes to go. Well...I call out to the Warden to hear my plea. 17 minute to go. He says, "Call me back in a week or three. You've got 16 minutes to go." Well, my lawyer says he's sorry he missed my case. Mmmm....15 minutes to go. Yeah, well if you're so sorry, come up and take my place. I got 14 minutes to go. Well, now here comes the padre to save my soul With 13 minutes to go. And he's talkin' about burnin', but I'm so damned cold. I got 12 more minutes to go. Now they're testin' the trap. It chills my spine. I got 11 minutes to go. 'Cuz the goddamned thing it works just fine. I got 10 more minutes to go. I'm waitin' for the pardon... gonna set me free With 9 more minutes to go. But this ain't the movies, so to hell with me. I got 8 more minutes to go. And now I'm climbin up the ladder with a scaffold peg With 7 more minutes to go. I've betta' watch my step or else I'll break my leg. I got 6 more minutes to go. Yeah... with my feet on the trap and my head in the noose... 5 more minutes to go. Well, c'mon somethin' and cut me loose. I got 4 more minutes to go. I can see the mountains. I see the sky. 3 more minutes to go. And it's too damned pretty for a man to die. i got 2 more minutes to go I can hear the buzzards... hear the crows. 1 more minute to go. And now I'm swingin' and here I gooooooooo.... |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Joybell Date: 30 Sep 03 - 06:40 PM Nerd, Thanks. What a beauty. Shel Silverstein surely has a way with a song. I suppose it belongs in a list with the old "Goodnight Songs" printed by the broadside printers in the 19th Century - songs they said they found in the cells of condemmed men, but actually bought from ballad writers in time for the hanging. |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Steve Parkes Date: 02 Oct 03 - 03:23 AM Joybell, it wasn't unknown for the broadside-hawkers to have both the "Unhappy Fate" and the "Daring Escape" versions to hand if they thought the latter might be likely. (I even wrote one myself, to celebrate the Daring Escape from the Gallows of the Notorious Outlaw Wm Caddick of Shropshire, part of the Yardley Millennium Clerations in 1972.) |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Joybell Date: 02 Oct 03 - 06:17 AM Steve, Oh yes they did too. I'd like to see your escape song. Is it in the data base? I could just look of course. It just occurred to me that while it isn't really a song to fit in here, Dwight Yokum's "The Heart that You Own" (I think that's the title)is pretty wierd. Plays tricks with your mind. I pay rent on a rundown place Aint no view but there's lots of space in my heart The heart that you own. It seems to be about a guy who lives inside himself and would like his girl in there with him. She won't go along with the idea - cruel woman, but she seems to own his body. He goes on Used to be I could live for free But that was before you bought the property. He wonders where he could go to live now but he can't afford to pay her what he owes. Dead wierd if you ask me. I've seen the inside of bodies. Wouldn't want to live in there. |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Steve Parkes Date: 02 Oct 03 - 06:31 AM I'd like to see it to, Joybell! My copies disappeared some time in the last thirty years ... |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Steve Parkes Date: 02 Oct 03 - 06:39 AM On a related note ... that movie about the insects -- not Bug's Life, the other one -- showed outtakes over the closing credits: muffed lines, mistimed deliveries, awkward props, all the usual things. Hang about -- outtakes from an animation? |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: CraigS Date: 02 Oct 03 - 04:46 PM Skip James had a song called Drunken Spree, in which he died of a self-administered morphine overdose, and still managed to sing another verse or two. |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Bill D Date: 02 Oct 03 - 04:50 PM momentum, that's the key! MOMENTUM! Maybe I can manage to sing at my own funeral that way.......no...I plan on cremation, that wouldn't work. |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: GUEST,pdq Date: 02 Oct 03 - 05:16 PM just try not to make an ash of yourself...OK, I'm going... |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Joybell Date: 02 Oct 03 - 06:53 PM Will we get a re-run of bloopers and out-takes at the end do you think? If animated characters can do it we should be able to manage it. Bill, ash or not, I think you have it. Never reach the end of a song that's the trick. Refuse to lie down like a cowboy or a ganster in those old films. |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Bill D Date: 02 Oct 03 - 07:05 PM oh..about those mirrors! I know one of those infinite loop songs! "As I was walking down the lane, down the lane, down the lane As I was walking down the lane, I sang a song- that song had this refrain....... As I was walking down the lane, down the lane, down the lane As I was walking down the lane, I sang a song- that song had this refrain... As I was walking down the lane, down the lane, down the lane As I was walking down the lane, I sang a song- that song had this refrain... |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Bill D Date: 02 Oct 03 - 07:07 PM (roughly to the tune of "Buffalo Gals") |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Joybell Date: 02 Oct 03 - 07:09 PM Oh Bill! You little beauty! I'll be walking down that lane all day now. Maybe for ever. I love these loops! |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Gareth Date: 02 Oct 03 - 07:15 PM Self perpetuating ???? Most 'Catters will recognise this loop (and it gives yer age away) 100 FOR X = 1 TO 100 120 PRINT "A Song" 130 CLS 140 NEXT 150 IF X >99 THEN X=1 160 GOTO 100 Gareth |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Amos Date: 02 Oct 03 - 07:50 PM Sounds like an occasion for "Smoke Gets In Your Eyes", fading.... A |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Bill D Date: 02 Oct 03 - 09:39 PM "Ninety-nine bottle of beer on a wall, Ninety-nine bottle of beer- Take one down...put it back up; Ninety-nine bottles of beer on a wall." |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Amos Date: 02 Oct 03 - 11:53 PM Gareth: A BASIC Program!! How quaint!! A |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 03 Oct 03 - 12:59 AM Well, Bill D, perhaps you could sing "There'll Be A Hot Time In The Old Town Tonight!" Robin |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Steve Parkes Date: 03 Oct 03 - 04:13 AM You think BASIC's quaint? Try this: 01 counter pic 9(8) comp sync right. 01 print-line. 03 print-text pic x(80). 78 const-text value "A Song". 78 const-true value "true". [...] move const-text to print-text. perform print-para until not const-true = "true". stop run. print-para. perform display print-line upon console varying counter from 1 by 1 until counter > 100. print-para-ext. exit. |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Geoff the Duck Date: 03 Oct 03 - 05:48 AM The animation outtakes are a feature of the films done for Disney by Pixar. There are some hilarious ones at the end of Toy Story 2 and Monsters Inc. They haven't released Finding Nemo yet here (or maybe just). At the cinema, you need to stay seated and not join the stampede for the doors which happens as soon as the finishing credits start to roll. (Is that just an English thing dating from the time when they played th National Anthem after the film finished, and if you weren't out of the cinema before the credits fininshed you were stuck at attention for several more minutes?). As for the Loop song, a number of years back we were introduced to this one (tune Bufalo Gals again) I know a song that'll get on your nerves, Get on your nerves, Get on your nerves, I know a song that'll get on your nerves, And this is how it goes. Oh!... (repeat ad nauseum) Quack! GtD (Ducking and running) |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Steve Parkes Date: 03 Oct 03 - 06:57 AM Goodbye horse, goodbye horse, He was saying goodbye to his horse; And as he was saying goodbye to his horse, He was saying ggodbye to his horse! Goodbye horse ... (Bless 'em all) We're 'ere ecause we're 'ere because ... (John Brown's body (I think) Why are we waiting, Why are we waiting, Why ... (O come, all ye faithful) Lloyd George knew my father, Father knew Lloyd George; Lloyd George knew ... (Onward, Christian soldiers) And if you think we've got nothing better to do ... you're absolutely right! Of course, although these are never-ending, they don't run counter to the "law" of causality. (Despite Stephen Hawking's time-travel-paradox policeman, there's nothing in General Relativity that says you can't do it!) Steve |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Joybell Date: 03 Oct 03 - 07:16 PM Ok I'm heading for the Escher site again. Usually!! ! the visual mind blowers go away if you close your eyes. Up and down the impossible stairs. In and out the impossible windows. Hurray for living! |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Steve Parkes Date: 06 Oct 03 - 04:32 AM Thank goodness Escher didn't take up music! Although there are some things I've eard that are worthy of him ... like the arrangement that goes down and down in pitch forever, but without ever going below the stave. Steve |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Joybell Date: 06 Oct 03 - 06:21 AM A rather Escheresque thing to do, he being into imposible staircases and all, is what my true-love does with the first line of "Climb Every Mountain" You start fairly high and then repeat the line dropping a full tone each repeat. Sadly you run out low notes eventually but it has the potential to be never ending - I think. He gets more dramatic as you go. I wondered if you should go down when you are supposed to be climbing but he couldn't answer that. |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Steve Parkes Date: 06 Oct 03 - 07:09 AM The clever bit of music has sevceral instruments going down the scale, starting from different notes in a chord; as each one gets to the bottom of its prescribed range (say, after one octave) it goes back to the top of the range. (I'm talking about a fixed range of notes, such as one octave, or two octaves.) The net effect is of descending notes; unless you listen carefully, you don't spot the individual instruments jumping back up. Steve |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Joybell Date: 06 Oct 03 - 07:21 AM Steve, What a great idea. We need lots of voices - different ranges. Our place or yours? |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Steve Parkes Date: 06 Oct 03 - 10:09 AM Better be yours, Joybell: most of us would ave to stand in the garden, and you'd all have to have your coffee wiothout milk or sugar ... |
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Subject: RE: Self-proclaiming songs that can't exist From: Joybell Date: 06 Oct 03 - 06:14 PM I much prefer my coffee without milk or sugar, but our place is fine. Lots of space - in the paddocks anyway and Spring is here. But Steve, I just woke up this morning to the realization that it's Bach you're telling me!! I didn't finish the homework set by Amos at the very top of this thread! Or maybe I just needed a good brain defragmentation. Of course!!! that's where Bach comes into the self-referential loops!!! My brain is quite useable a bit slow and clogged up is all. Haven't listened to classical music for years. Thank you for the hint. |
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