Licensing Act 2003 - What guidance?

Subject: Licensing Act 2003 - What guidance?
From: The Barden of England
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 09:49 AM

Well- well. Here we are in October and still no guidance. It was promised to the members in the second sitting of the standing committee on 1st. April - so they were all taken as folls on that day. We were led to believe it was happening in September, and now it's October and still nothing. The Local Licensing authorities are going to have a field day I fear.

Subject: RE: Licensing Act 2003 - What guidance?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 10:04 AM

It'll be interesting to see if anything has happened by the time that the first batch of Magistrate's Licenses need renewing next year. I still think that LAs are going to be very reluctant to take over the licensing job unless they can make some cash out of it.

Subject: RE: Licensing Act 2003 - What guidance?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 06:15 PM

"Promised" for mid Oct. Several "Performer-Lawyers" and Hamish and the MU had lunch this week - we all await "progress".

Yes. LAs and "hot conkers".

Subject: RE: Licensing Act 2003 - What guidance?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 02:58 AM

From today's Ascot News :local council turned down licence application from local pub "that would have allowed the pub to have live bands of more than two people and karaoke nights and stay open for an extra hour on weekend nights. Permission refused because of objections from councillors and some residents who feared too much noise". Landlady is said to be appealing against the decision.
This was tucked away in a tiny paragraph. Front page story is row over council removing children's play area for being unused.

RtS

Subject: RE: Licensing Act 2003 - What guidance?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 04:08 AM

Fair enough treating a playground closure a front page news. I'd suspect that the Licence story might be one that came in late and could get built up in the next issue, especially if there are a few letters to the Editor. So maybe we could have the story here?

Presumaby this would have been under the present law, which gets replaced by the new one at the start of next year, so it's not necessarily an indication of how things wil work under the new one, when the guidelines which haven't come oput will come into play.

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Subject: RE: Licensing Act 2003 - What guidance?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 05:15 AM

What will be interesting is the percentage of pubs which do manage to get their entertainment licences, merely by ticking a box when they have to renew their old magistrate's license next year. I'm also waiting to see what LAs will do about pubs who are paying exhorbitant rates for current entertainments licenses. It will be difficult for them to suddenly declare that the premises are unsuitable after they've already granted them licenses, but according to what has been said, they should be able to just tick the box and not have to carry on paying the old fees.

Subject: RE: Licensing Act 2003 - What guidance?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 05:20 AM

HMMMM but said Landlady could put in a 5 million decibel sound system and play eminem all night long at full volume and not be contravening any laws. Maybe the council should think about that!

Subject: RE: Licensing Act 2003 - What guidance?
From: The Barden of England
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 05:46 AM

She won't be able to under the new act as it states:-
Simultaneous

Subject: RE: Licensing Act 2003 - What guidance?
From: The Barden of England
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 06:00 AM

Sorry - pressed the send after preview instead of just carrying on!! Anyway she won't be able to under the new law for the description of entertainment is as follows:-

Entertainment

2    (1) The descriptions of entertainment are-

(a) a performance of a play,
(b) an exhibition of a film,
(c) an indoor sporting event,
(d) a boxing or wrestling entertainment,
(e) a performance of live music,
(f) any playing of recorded music,
(g) a performance of dance,
(h) entertainment of a similar description to that falling within paragraph (e), (f) or (g),
where the entertainment takes place in the presence of an audience and is provided for the purpose, or for purposes which include the purpose, of entertaining that audience.

By the way, having read the committee stage over again the minister stated that a competition of darts between 2 or 3 teams will need a PEL. Interesting that isn't it?

Subject: RE: Licensing Act 2003 - What guidance?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 08:48 AM

Perhaps he's afraid that they'll be using him as a target !

Still the requirement for darts etc to be licensed could be useful to us folkies because if a pub applies for a license for darts, it would also cover them for folk music. The government made it very clear that they only wanted one type or class of entertainments license which would cover everything.

"and is provided for the purpose, or for purposes which include the purpose, of entertaining that audience"
On the other hand, if all the regulars hated Eminem, would the landlord be able to claim that they weren't being entertained and therefore a license wasn't required ? I can think of a few folk performers who might fall into that category . . . . .

Subject: RE: Licensing Act 2003 - What guidance?
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 08:43 AM

The following updates of the current mess - from The Publican's website.

Published 25th-September-2003

Licensees could be forced to renew their licences in 2004, even though the new licensing regime has been introduced.

It has been revealed that publicans will not only have to apply for a conversion to a premises licence during 2004 to their local authority, they may also be facing magistrates for their three-yearly renewals during February and March of the same year.

The Department for Culture, Media and Sport originally said that licensees would not have to face their renewals in 2004.

However, because the final legislation for the bill – including the national guidance – is not expected to be passed until next month, the new regime will not come into force until 2005.

A meeting took place last week between licensing minister Richard Caborn (pictured) and the British Beer & Pub Association (BBPA) and leading members of the trade who put forward their views against the move.

A BBPA spokesperson said: "This seems a totally unnecessary bureaucratic tangle to have to go through with the move to local authorities coming through in 2005. We hope the minister will reconsider the current position."

Mr Caborn has confirmed that he will consider the industry's concerns.


Published 26th-September-2003

Pubs and bars using DJs to provide "mood music" should not have to apply for an entertainment licence once the new Licensing Act comes into force.

Musicians Union licensing expert Hamish Birchall believes the wording of the act allows pubs to have DJs as long as no one is dancing.

The trade is concerned that local authorities may attach stringent conditions to pubs that include entertainment in their licence applications.

The act allows pubs to play recorded "incidental" music without them having to make any application. but treats DJs as live entertainment.

"I think the line of the Department for Culture, Media and Sport is that if there's a DJ there must be dancing, but increasingly many bars have someone playing music simply to create a background mood," said Mr Birchall.

"It should operate just like the old two-in-a-bar rule. As long as the pub isn't providing a dance floor, it should be a straightforward matter of transferring an old on-licence into the new premises licence."


Published 2nd-October-2003

Licensees could be forced to pay the full price of their public entertainment licences (PELs) during the transition period of licensing reform.

This could mean that licensees would have to pay out thousands of pounds to renew their PELs even though they will be unnecessary once the new licensing regime is implemented.

It is expected that the Licensing Act will come into force in March 2005, but licensees who have to renew their PELs before then could find themselves facing a huge renewal fee, even if the licence will operate only for a short period and not the full 12 months.

This will raise further concerns and confusion within the trade about the inconsistencies between local authorities.

Some councils charge more than £20,000 a year for a PEL, some have strict renewal dates while others allow licensees to renew their licensees on a yearly basis.

Richard Williams, from The Publican's legal team at Joelson Wilson, said: "Some councils will be trying to make applicants pay the whole year's fee.

"But it is dependent on the date the act is fully implemented.

"Licensees will have to make sure that they submit PEL renewals right up to the full introduction of the Licensing Act. There are some councils that will charge whether or not you get the full year licence.

"The government may give an indication to local authorities of how they are supposed to deal with PEL renewal fees."

The British Beer & Pub Association's Mark Hastings said he expected the charges would be pro-rata. "Once the timetable is established we should rightly expect local authorities to respond in that way," he said.

Tony Payne, chief executive of the Federation of Licensed Victuallers' Associations, said: "It all depends on when the new regime comes in and when the details are clarified.

"Licensees would have to renew their licences to get ready for the new regime."

A spokesman for the Department for Culture, Media and Sport confirmed it was in discussions with the Local Government Association on how the transition period will work in relation to fees.

Last week it was revealed that publicans will not only have to apply to their local authority for a conversion to a premises licence during 2004, they may also face magistrates for their three-yearly renewals during February and March of the same year.

ENDS